He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers; he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States.


Two things here...

The power to adjourn Congress only applies when the House and Senate are in disagreement as to when to Adjourn on their own. The president does not have the power to just adjourn (disband) congress. Since the House and the Senate are pretty much full time year round now, I don't think anyone is claiming the two are in disagreement as to time of recess. Adjourning Congress would be a massive overreach of the Constitution. It simply does not say he has that power.

Second thought... How could you all want a President to disband Congress? You say that all the libs cry out "Dictatorship" but isn't that what it is? Every Dictator in world history, the first thing they do is send the Legislature home. Doesn't that scare you a little?

BMX Bandit said:

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MooreTrucker said:

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A quick question from someone politically uninformed: the statement bolded says "President," but Trump isn't actually President until the inauguration, right? So how can he do this?

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The conversation is about what happens once he's president

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Oh, OK. He's been doing so much appointing this week I thought that's what was being discussed.

they aren't actually appointed until he is president

CampSkunk said:

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Recess appointments, to be plausibly considered constitutional, would require ratification by the Senate when it readjourns. Plus it would be crazy for Trump to try it - there are still Rinos in the Senate and the House who would defect. He needs them to get his policies enabled, so it would be stupid to waste goodwill on this issue when most of his picks will be confirmed anyway.

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cough cough, choke choke, bull *****.. the Dems used this legal tactic plenty of times in the past, many many times in fact, Trump will use it and they will ***** but not be able to do anything about it.

knoxtom said:

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The power to adjourn Congress only applies when the House and Senate are in disagreement as to when to Adjourn on their own. The president does not have the power to just adjourn (disband) congress. Since the House and the Senate are pretty much full time year round now, I don't think anyone is claiming the two are in disagreement as to time of recess. Adjourning Congress would be a massive overreach of the Constitution. It simply does not say he has that power

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The recess appointment scheme is predicated on Johnson adjourning the House.

BMX Bandit said:

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they aren't actually appointed until he is president

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Got it. But if he announces all of them now, won't that give the Dems and RINOs extra time to figure out how to block them?

Just trying to understand the strategy here.

My guess is it is getting the uproar time to fizzle out before the process plays itself out. By the time it rolls around everyone will have gone through Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years. I think the banshees will run out of steam and start grating on the collective nerves by the time this comes. It'll be seen as more of the p-hat wearing crazies marching.

Quote:

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Second thought... How could you all want a President to disband Congress? You say that all the libs cry out "Dictatorship" but isn't that what it is? Every Dictator in world history, the first thing they do is send the Legislature home. Doesn't that scare you a little?

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Where is this strawman coming from?

We watched democrats block Trump from utilizing his full constitutional powers for at least two of the four years he was president before with the Russia hoax and the phony investigation that followed. Americans were denied the representation in the Executive Branch that they voted for. We don't need lectures about the balance of power from the likes of liberals.

AgBQ-00 said:

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My guess is it is getting the uproar time to fizzle out before the process plays itself out. By the time it rolls around everyone will have gone through Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years. I think the banshees will run out of steam and start grating on the collective nerves by the time this comes. It'll be seen as more of the p-hat wearing crazies marching.

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yeah it really no different than when Biden put in all the trans, gays, and LGBT people and the senate wasn't able to vote on them..

whats good for the goose is good for the gander.. hell in 4 years it will probably flip again and some crazy loon will put those trans phobia wack jobs back in again

torrid said:

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Recess appointment is dirty pool.

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They started it.

TriAg2010 said:

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knoxtom said:

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The power to adjourn Congress only applies when the House and Senate are in disagreement as to when to Adjourn on their own. The president does not have the power to just adjourn (disband) congress. Since the House and the Senate are pretty much full time year round now, I don't think anyone is claiming the two are in disagreement as to time of recess. Adjourning Congress would be a massive overreach of the Constitution. It simply does not say he has that power

---

The recess appointment scheme is predicated on Johnson adjourning the House.

---

Every president for the last 30 years has made recess appointments. I don't think anyone has done it for a cabinet member though, that is a rather large escalation.

People on this thread are saying they want Trump to recess Congress and the Senate, not Johnson. All I am saying is that Trump does not have the power to recess Congress except in one very limited situation, which is not present here..

MooreTrucker said:

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BMX Bandit said:

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they aren't actually appointed until he is president

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Got it. But if he announces all of them now, won't that give the Dems and RINOs extra time to figure out how to block them?

Just trying to understand the strategy here.

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start the process so they can start working on day 1

fullback44 said:

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AgBQ-00 said:

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My guess is it is getting the uproar time to fizzle out before the process plays itself out. By the time it rolls around everyone will have gone through Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years. I think the banshees will run out of steam and start grating on the collective nerves by the time this comes. It'll be seen as more of the p-hat wearing crazies marching.

---

yeah it really no different than when Biden put in all the trans, gays, and LGBT people and the senate wasn't able to vote on them..

whats good for the goose is good for the gander.. hell in 4 years it will probably flip again and some crazy loon will put those trans phobia wack jobs back in again

---

Biden has not made a single recess appointment. If those appointments were made, they were done where senate approval was not required.

knoxtom said:

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TriAg2010 said:

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knoxtom said:

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The power to adjourn Congress only applies when the House and Senate are in disagreement as to when to Adjourn on their own. The president does not have the power to just adjourn (disband) congress. Since the House and the Senate are pretty much full time year round now, I don't think anyone is claiming the two are in disagreement as to time of recess. Adjourning Congress would be a massive overreach of the Constitution. It simply does not say he has that power

---

The recess appointment scheme is predicated on Johnson adjourning the House.

---

Every president for the last 30 years has made recess appointments. I don't think anyone has done it for a cabinet member though, that is a rather large escalation.

People on this thread are saying they want Trump to recess Congress and the Senate, not Johnson. All I am saying is that Trump does not have the power to recess Congress except in one very limited situation, which is not present here..

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This is very fake news.

knoxtom said:

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TriAg2010 said:

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knoxtom said:

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The power to adjourn Congress only applies when the House and Senate are in disagreement as to when to Adjourn on their own. The president does not have the power to just adjourn (disband) congress. Since the House and the Senate are pretty much full time year round now, I don't think anyone is claiming the two are in disagreement as to time of recess. Adjourning Congress would be a massive overreach of the Constitution. It simply does not say he has that power

---

The recess appointment scheme is predicated on Johnson adjourning the House.

---

Every president for the last 30 years has made recess appointments. I don't think anyone has done it for a cabinet member though, that is a rather large escalation.

People on this thread are saying they want Trump to recess Congress and the Senate, not Johnson. All I am saying is that Trump does not have the power to recess Congress except in one very limited situation, which is not present here..

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Exactly. A recess appointment itself isn't abnormal but advocating for the president to send everyone home so they can't oppose him is quite literally what dictators do.

Now I don't think he will do that and I don't think he'll have to, but it is weird watching small government conservatives get behind that idea

HTownAg98 said:

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knoxtom said:

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TriAg2010 said:

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knoxtom said:

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The power to adjourn Congress only applies when the House and Senate are in disagreement as to when to Adjourn on their own. The president does not have the power to just adjourn (disband) congress. Since the House and the Senate are pretty much full time year round now, I don't think anyone is claiming the two are in disagreement as to time of recess. Adjourning Congress would be a massive overreach of the Constitution. It simply does not say he has that power

---

The recess appointment scheme is predicated on Johnson adjourning the House.

---

Every president for the last 30 years has made recess appointments. I don't think anyone has done it for a cabinet member though, that is a rather large escalation.

People on this thread are saying they want Trump to recess Congress and the Senate, not Johnson. All I am saying is that Trump does not have the power to recess Congress except in one very limited situation, which is not present here..

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This is very fake news.

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President Ronald Reagan made 240 recess appointments (average 30 per year) and President George H. W. Bush made 77 recess appointments (average 19 per year). George H. W. Bush appointed Lawrence Eagleburger as Secretary of State during a recess in 1992; Eagleburger, as Deputy Secretary of State, had in effect filled that role after James Baker resigned.
President Bill Clinton made 139 recess appointments (average of 17 per year).
President George W. Bush made 171 recess appointments (average of 21 per year). During the last two years of the Bush administration, Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid sought to prevent further recess appointments. Bush promised not to make any during the August recess that year, but no agreement was reached for the two-week Thanksgiving break, in November 2007. As a result, Reid did not allow adjournments of more than three days from then until the end of the Bush presidency by holding pro forma sessions.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recess_appointment#cite_note-4][4][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recess_appointment#cite_note-5][5][/url] Prior to this, there had been speculation that James W. Holsinger would receive a recess appointment as Surgeon General of the United States.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recess_appointment#cite_note-6][6][/url]
President Barack Obama made 32 recess appointments (through February 1, 2015), all to full-time positions.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recess_appointment#cite_note-CRS-Hogue-1][1][/url] Over what would have traditionally been the 201112 winter recess of the 112th Congress, the Republican-controlled House of Representatives did not assent to recess, specifically to block Richard Cordray's appointment as Director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recess_appointment#cite_note-7][7][/url] Both the House and Senate continued to hold pro forma sessions.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recess_appointment#cite_note-8][8][/url]
In August 2017, nine pro forma sessions were set up to block President Donald Trump from making recess appointments. The concern was that Trump might dismiss Attorney General Jeff Sessions, and try to name his successor while Congress was in recess.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recess_appointment#cite_note-9][9][/url] Pro forma sessions continued to be held until January 2019. They were held on December 31, 2018,[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recess_appointment#cite_note-10][10][/url] and again on January 2, 2019, the last full day of the 115th United States Congress, that lasted several minutes.
On April 15, 2020, while Congress was holding pro forma sessions due to the recess during the COVID-19 pandemic, President Trump threatened to adjourn both houses of Congress in order to make recess appointments for vacant positions such as the Federal Reserve Board of Governors and the Director of National Intelligence.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recess_appointment#cite_note-11][11][/url] However, the U.S. Constitution only grants the president the authority to adjourn Congress if it is unable to agree on a date of adjournment, and both Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell indicated that they would not alter the planned date of January 3, 2021.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recess_appointment#cite_note-12][12][/url]

knoxtom said:

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TriAg2010 said:

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knoxtom said:

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The power to adjourn Congress only applies when the House and Senate are in disagreement as to when to Adjourn on their own. The president does not have the power to just adjourn (disband) congress. Since the House and the Senate are pretty much full time year round now, I don't think anyone is claiming the two are in disagreement as to time of recess. Adjourning Congress would be a massive overreach of the Constitution. It simply does not say he has that power

---

The recess appointment scheme is predicated on Johnson adjourning the House.

---

People on this thread are saying they want Trump to recess Congress and the Senate, not Johnson. All I am saying is that Trump does not have the power to recess Congress except in one very limited situation, which is not present here..

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Yeah, I get that. I'm saying that in order for Trump to adjourn Congress, he needs Johnson (or whoever is Speaker) to adjourn the House. That would create the circumstances where Trump could use Article II - Section 3 to adjourn Congress. Trump can't adjourn Congress unilaterally, he needs the House to go along with him.

fullback44 said:

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prove it big guy

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https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvg7r5e3gz7o.amp

Quote:

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George W. Bush made 171 recess appointments, Bill Clinton made 139 and Barack Obama made at least 32, according to the CRS. Trump and Joe Biden did not employ the method.

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If you'd like to edit your post so the thread doesn't get locked, be my guest. I'd also accept an apology, but I won't hold my breath.

BMX Bandit said:

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Zombie Jon Snow said:

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The Banned said:

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We'd all be freaking out if it went the other way. I don't like sidestepping the balance of power between the branches of government

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Is it sidestepping the balance of power if it is written into the legal process that defines it?


That's like saying don't take all the tax deductions available because thats cheating on your taxes.

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adjourning congress is written into the legal process

appointing cabinet member when the vacancy did not arise during the recess is not

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Speak slowly for my simple mind please...
so when doe a vacancy exist in the Cabinet?
January 20th? Are they all vacant then?

TriAg2010 said:

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knoxtom said:

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TriAg2010 said:

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knoxtom said:

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The power to adjourn Congress only applies when the House and Senate are in disagreement as to when to Adjourn on their own. The president does not have the power to just adjourn (disband) congress. Since the House and the Senate are pretty much full time year round now, I don't think anyone is claiming the two are in disagreement as to time of recess. Adjourning Congress would be a massive overreach of the Constitution. It simply does not say he has that power

---

The recess appointment scheme is predicated on Johnson adjourning the House.

---

People on this thread are saying they want Trump to recess Congress and the Senate, not Johnson. All I am saying is that Trump does not have the power to recess Congress except in one very limited situation, which is not present here..

---

Yeah, I get that. I'm saying that in order for Trump to adjourn Congress, he needs Johnson (or whoever is Speaker) to adjourn the House. That would create the circumstances where Trump could use Article II - Section 3 to adjourn Congress. Trump can't adjourn Congress unilaterally, he needs the House to go along with him.

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Point of order: it could be either the Senate or the House. There has to be a disagreement between the Senate and the House to adjourn.

congress session starts on january 3. the office of (for example) attorney general is not vacant on january 3.

it becomes vacant when the current attorney general resigns, January 20.

so congress was in session on january 20 when the vacancy occurred, not in recess.


there is a school of thought that says it does not matter when it becomes vacant, only that it has become vacant. that goes against the plain language of the constitution according to conservative justices

Glenlivet said:

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BMX Bandit said:

---

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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The Banned said:

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We'd all be freaking out if it went the other way. I don't like sidestepping the balance of power between the branches of government

---

Is it sidestepping the balance of power if it is written into the legal process that defines it?


That's like saying don't take all the tax deductions available because thats cheating on your taxes.

---

adjourning congress is written into the legal process

appointing cabinet member when the vacancy did not arise during the recess is not

---

Speak slowly for my simple mind please...
so when doe a vacancy exist in the Cabinet?
January 20th? Are they all vacant then?

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Technically no. Those seats become vacant when they resign or the incoming President fires them. Remember Robert Gates? He was kept on when Obama became president. And he didn't have to be re-confirmed.

Quote:

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Biden has not made a single recess appointment. If those appointments were made, they were done where senate approval was not required.

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Because his party backed everything he proposed 100%. And he used the media for propaganda.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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Quote:

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Biden has not made a single recess appointment. If those appointments were made, they were done where senate approval was not required.

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Because his party backed everything he proposed 100%. And he used the media for propaganda.

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More fake news. Biden has 10 judges that were either not confirmed, or their nomination was withdrawn, and one cabinet nominee that was withdrawn (Neera Tanden).

HTownAg98 said:

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TriAg2010 said:

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knoxtom said:

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TriAg2010 said:

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knoxtom said:

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The power to adjourn Congress only applies when the House and Senate are in disagreement as to when to Adjourn on their own. The president does not have the power to just adjourn (disband) congress. Since the House and the Senate are pretty much full time year round now, I don't think anyone is claiming the two are in disagreement as to time of recess. Adjourning Congress would be a massive overreach of the Constitution. It simply does not say he has that power

---

The recess appointment scheme is predicated on Johnson adjourning the House.

---

People on this thread are saying they want Trump to recess Congress and the Senate, not Johnson. All I am saying is that Trump does not have the power to recess Congress except in one very limited situation, which is not present here..

---

Yeah, I get that. I'm saying that in order for Trump to adjourn Congress, he needs Johnson (or whoever is Speaker) to adjourn the House. That would create the circumstances where Trump could use Article II - Section 3 to adjourn Congress. Trump can't adjourn Congress unilaterally, he needs the House to go along with him.

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Point of order: it could be either the Senate or the House. There has to be a disagreement between the Senate and the House to adjourn.

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That's true. My assumption is that if Republicans had the votes to confirm they wouldn't need to recess, and if they don't, a move to recess is how you get Murkowski and Collins to caucus with the Democrats.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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stick95 said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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Use all the tools. The dims weaponized government against Trump. They fabricated crimes. They took political prisoners. They demonized concerned patriots. They called people who believe in traditional values "Nazis."

If it is legal, use it against them to root out fascists in our government.

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I hate this mindset. It just more of the same partisan establishment.

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They took the gloves off a long time ago. They impeached him over a phone call. They put him in jail. They're never going to stop. Quit unilaterally surrendering. There is no collegiality anymore.

We are fighting for the soul of The Republic, but I'm sure Mitt Romney has a newsletter you can subscribe to.

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F that Mitt Romney nonsense. I'm a patriot and I love this country just as much if not more than you do. But if you stoop to fighting like them, then nothing changes. We finally have an opportunity for REAL change in the government. Finally it seems that we have a group of people in charge that want to put limits and transparency on the federal government. Reduce the bloat and regulation that is crippling Americans ability to pursue the American dream. Stop the invasion of illegal immigrants and the assault of foreign companies stealing our jobs.

We gotta stop the partisan vengeance or else the leaders that we are getting in now won't last past 4 years, because Americans will get tired of it and the pendulum will swing back in the other direction.

BMX Bandit said:

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congress session starts on january 3. the office of (for example) attorney general is not vacant on january 3.

it becomes vacant when the current attorney general resigns, January 20.

so congress was in session on january 20 when the vacancy occurred, not in recess.


there is a school of thought that says it does not matter when it becomes vacant, only that it has become vacant. that goes against the plain language of the constitution according to conservative justices

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Then what's the play here. Appoint someone like Gaetz during a recess appointment, and hope it gets tied up in the courts so long that it becomes moot?

stick95 said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

---

stick95 said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

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Use all the tools. The dims weaponized government against Trump. They fabricated crimes. They took political prisoners. They demonized concerned patriots. They called people who believe in traditional values "Nazis."

If it is legal, use it against them to root out fascists in our government.

---

I hate this mindset. It just more of the same partisan establishment.

---

They took the gloves off a long time ago. They impeached him over a phone call. They put him in jail. They're never going to stop. Quit unilaterally surrendering. There is no collegiality anymore.

We are fighting for the soul of The Republic, but I'm sure Mitt Romney has a newsletter you can subscribe to.

---

F that Mitt Romney nonsense. I'm a patriot and I love this country just as much if not more than you do. But if you stoop to fighting like them, then nothing changes. We finally have an opportunity for REAL change in the government.

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We are 20 years beyond this point. Wake up.

Um, read it again. I'm not worried about the Dems. I'm worried about the RINOS. They haven't disappeared, but they will cooperate unless you do something stupid.

HTownAg98 said:

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BMX Bandit said:

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congress session starts on january 3. the office of (for example) attorney general is not vacant on january 3.

it becomes vacant when the current attorney general resigns, January 20.

so congress was in session on january 20 when the vacancy occurred, not in recess.


there is a school of thought that says it does not matter when it becomes vacant, only that it has become vacant. that goes against the plain language of the constitution according to conservative justices

---

Then what's the play here. Appoint someone like Gaetz during a recess appointment, and hope it gets tied up in the courts so long that it becomes moot?

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Or the Senate thereafter ratifies the appointment before two years?

knoxtom said:

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He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers; he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States.


Two things here...

The power to adjourn Congress only applies when the House and Senate are in disagreement as to when to Adjourn on their own. The president does not have the power to just adjourn (disband) congress. Since the House and the Senate are pretty much full time year round now, I don't think anyone is claiming the two are in disagreement as to time of recess. Adjourning Congress would be a massive overreach of the Constitution. It simply does not say he has that power.

Second thought... How could you all want a President to disband Congress? You say that all the libs cry out "Dictatorship" but isn't that what it is? Every Dictator in world history, the first thing they do is send the Legislature home. Doesn't that scare you a little?

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Tell me you didn't read the OP....without telling me you didn't read it.

Nobody is calling for disbanding Congress.

Quote:

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President Obama made 32 recess appointments, all to full-time positions. During his presidency, President William J. Clinton made 139 recess appointments, 95 to full-time positions and 44 to part-time positions. President George W. Bush made 171 recess appointments, 99 to full-time positions and 72 to part-time positions.

---

Quote:

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Then what's the play here. Appoint someone like Gaetz during a recess appointment, and hope it gets tied up in the courts so long that it becomes moot?

---

could be.

its not a foregone conclusion that Gaetz wont' be confirmed, but sure seems like a tough row to hoe

Quote:

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he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper

---

This means the Pesident can adjourn Congress if the Senate and House of Representatives cannot agree.

In terms of cabinet appointment approvals, this would not be applicable, because only the Senate approves (and the House of Representatives is not involved).

The more I think about it, is there really going to be a public hearing for Gaetz? Would make Thomas hearing look like Sesame Street.


Don't see why Trump would want that to start off his second term line that