AgLA06 said:

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LuoJi said:

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Only employees like wfh and I understand why. You so far less work, have side gigs, workout, start late, end early, "work" while
On vacation, etc etc etc.

It only existed bc of Covid and business owners had to compete thereafter for talent. It's days are now numbered and rightfully so

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This is a perfect example of a mindset of someone that has no business in managing people. If your employees aren't producing as a manager, there's 2 people to blame. The employee and the manager that isn't managing.

If it's the company (or senior leadership) there's no point in staying.

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Lol you can always pick out the wfh abusers easily. Clock is ticking.

Wow. Memo went out today and with 1 Biz day notice (amazon at least gave their employees until January to make arrangements) global sales is now 5 days a week onsite.

Aggie Jurist said:

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There was a prior thread about Amazon's RTO communication last week. What folks don't realize - this is really just a RIF without the severance costs (or the adverse impact analysis).

I went to Amazon earlier this year - doing Labor work. I've been on the road 28 of the last 32 weeks. Today I was told I need to report to the nearest building 5 days a week (an hour away) when not on company travel. Why? collaboration is the excuse. I'm in a field labor role.

I was one of the biggest proponents of RTO - and kept my prior employer from allowing people to move away from the HQ's metro area b/c I knew the pendulum would swing back. It made sense - you need people to be able to meet in order to actually solve problems.

Amazon is different. They don't have an HQ - really. They have HQ buildings all over the place - and lines of business leaders don't sit together. In my case, I'd be assigned a table somewhere in a loud sort center, doing confidential work. Makes zero sense.

So - understand what they are doing - they don't care about collaboration - they're forcing people out without paying them to leave. I'll be one of them.

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Given that you undermined remote work at a former employer, it is hard for me to feel sorry for you.

Companies have been offshoring work for years, with many now moving up the value stream and having non-co-located teams who are half way around the world from each other work very effectively together.

As I have said many times before... the moment companies started offshoring, was the moment that any discussion about the need for everyone to be sitting together for effectiveness became a BS answer. They do offshoring b/c of costs. They want in the office because of control.

working better together is just an excuse... the same type such as "People don't leave b/c of money, they leave b/c of their boss or lack of challenges." LOL... ok HR, keep telling yourself that.

BadMoonRisin said:

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Wow. Memo went out today and with 1 Biz day notice (amazon at least gave their employees until January to make arrangements) global sales is now 5 days a week onsite.

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Another easy RIF.

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Given that you undermined remote work at a former employer, it is hard for me to feel sorry for you.

Companies have been offshoring work for years, with many now moving up the value stream and having non-co-located teams who are half way around the world from each other work very effectively together.

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Never asked you to feel sorry - and your characterization that I 'undermined' remote work at my former employer is simply wrong. I kept employees from leaving the metro area - knowing they would eventually have to come back. Frankly, I saved many of their jobs ultimately.

What Amazon is doing here isn't unusual - but the reasoning is disingenuous. Again - the company can do what it wants, but the reason they are giving is simply a lie.

It's actually worse than I have described. Not only must you find a facility to swipe into, you have to beg the managers of that facility to allow you to work there. Otherwise, you have to go find another one to work at - and we were given 7 days to figure that out. I frankly don't care - don't need to work - but the young lawyers and labor professionals working for me (all but one of whom were hired into 'virtual' roles) have to figure out somewhere to go - and like me, they are basically on the road 3 of every 4 weeks as it is.

Teslag said:

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you need people to be able to meet in order to actually solve problems

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This simply isn't true in my experience

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Depends on the business. You may be able to solve problems without meeting in person but teaming suffers in businesses where that is essential. There is a difference between adequate and exceptional. Only the business can set those metrics.

As someone who has experienced many mergers and acquisitions over the years, I can tell you that this is 100% true.

We are facing an economic downturn. People are not buying things, and businesses are desperate to make a profit. Amazon knows this and will cut costs just like any company. They do not care what it takes to meet revenue numbers because they are driven by profit.

You will continue to see efforts like RTO because it is quick and easy. They will find ways to make exceptions for specific workers of value though.... watch.

Aggie Jurist said:

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Quote:

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Given that you undermined remote work at a former employer, it is hard for me to feel sorry for you.

Companies have been offshoring work for years, with many now moving up the value stream and having non-co-located teams who are half way around the world from each other work very effectively together.

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Never asked you to feel sorry - and your characterization that I 'undermined' remote work at my former employer is simply wrong. I kept employees from leaving the metro area - knowing they would eventually have to come back. Frankly, I saved many of their jobs ultimately.

What Amazon is doing here isn't unusual - but the reasoning is disingenuous. Again - the company can do what it wants, but the reason they are giving is simply a lie.

It's actually worse than I have described. Not only must you find a facility to swipe into, you have to beg the managers of that facility to allow you to work there. Otherwise, you have to go find another one to work at - and we were given 7 days to figure that out. I frankly don't care - don't need to work - but the young lawyers and labor professionals working for me (all but one of whom were hired into 'virtual' roles) have to figure out somewhere to go - and like me, they are basically on the road 3 of every 4 weeks as it is.

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I'd be pissed if I hired into a REMOTE job that they later changed into an OFFICE job. Regardless of where the office is.

Hell, part of the reason many of those folks took the job was BECAUSE it was remote.

It's no different than when a company moves their HQ or their entire operation from one city to another.

But, in the latter situation, the company typically offers some kind of deal to move or a severance package to leave.

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It's actually worse than I have described. Not only must you find a facility to swipe into, you have to beg the managers of that facility to allow you to work there

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Do what? So they are making people come back to the office and then putting the onus on the worker to figure out to gain entry and secure a spot to sit?

Are they also going to make returning workers fight to the death to see who wins the seats that are available? lol.

YouBet said:

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Quote:

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It's actually worse than I have described. Not only must you find a facility to swipe into, you have to beg the managers of that facility to allow you to work there

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Do what? So they are making people come back to the office and then putting the onus on the worker to figure out to gain entry and secure a spot to sit?

Are they also going to make returning workers fight to the death to see who wins the seats that are available? lol.

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That happened to me at a previous company. Closest office was at the facility of a company they had acquired. Had to beg for permission to use any company resources since the local facility still saw everything as theirs.

txyaloo said:

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YouBet said:

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Quote:

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It's actually worse than I have described. Not only must you find a facility to swipe into, you have to beg the managers of that facility to allow you to work there

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Do what? So they are making people come back to the office and then putting the onus on the worker to figure out to gain entry and secure a spot to sit?

Are they also going to make returning workers fight to the death to see who wins the seats that are available? lol.

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That happened to me at a previous company. Closest office was at the facility of a company they had acquired. Had to beg for permission to use any company resources since the local facility still saw everything as theirs.

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I can see this happen with a recent M&A but not so much with an established large company. Maybe it's just happening to contractors? Still kind of wild to me.

I think Jassy is an idiot and this will hurt Amazon in the long run.

There seems to be a push by companies to turn back the clock, not just pre-pandemic but to the 1990s. Not just 100% in the office, but things like paying your 401k match in company stock.

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I can see this happen with a recent M&A but not so much with an established large company. Maybe it's just happening to contractors? Still kind of wild to me.

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Nope - I'm not a contractor. I'm a W-2 employee. It's the Hunger Games.

I find it rather comical at this point. I don't really have to work - so I'll ride off into the sunset and wait for another gig.

Aggie Jurist said:

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Quote:

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I can see this happen with a recent M&A but not so much with an established large company. Maybe it's just happening to contractors? Still kind of wild to me.

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Nope - I'm not a contractor. I'm a W-2 employee. It's the Hunger Games.

I find it rather comical at this point. I don't really have to work - so I'll ride off into the sunset and wait for another gig.

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I sounds to me that while you may be W-2, you approach it as a contract gig. Which is probably the right attitude to have given the situation.

My employer, and oil company, is currently 1 day per week WFH, but we are moving buildings in a month and most offices and cubicles will be eliminated in favor of bullpen style workstations with no privacy…all in the name of collaboration.

Aggie Jurist said:

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Quote:

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Given that you undermined remote work at a former employer, it is hard for me to feel sorry for you.

Companies have been offshoring work for years, with many now moving up the value stream and having non-co-located teams who are half way around the world from each other work very effectively together.

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Never asked you to feel sorry - and your characterization that I 'undermined' remote work at my former employer is simply wrong. I kept employees from leaving the metro area - knowing they would eventually have to come back. Frankly, I saved many of their jobs ultimately.

What Amazon is doing here isn't unusual - but the reasoning is disingenuous. Again - the company can do what it wants, but the reason they are giving is simply a lie.

It's actually worse than I have described. Not only must you find a facility to swipe into, you have to beg the managers of that facility to allow you to work there. Otherwise, you have to go find another one to work at - and we were given 7 days to figure that out. I frankly don't care - don't need to work - but the young lawyers and labor professionals working for me (all but one of whom were hired into 'virtual' roles) have to figure out somewhere to go - and like me, they are basically on the road 3 of every 4 weeks as it is.

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Then I apologize for mischaracterizing what you actually did. They way I read it, was not that you were saving people's jobs, it was that you were convincing the company from allowing remote work.

Companies have gone rogue. The rich owners have found a way to get obscenely rich while keeping wages in this country down by off shoring to other countries. When things go bad, they demand bail-outs of our money.

Heads I win, Tails you lose.

The Government needs to step in and add regulation on how these companies hire and fire. You cannot hire a bunch of people, then fire them (unless they did something wrong) and give the reason that they over-hired earlier. Lives and families are at stake. The Govt exists for the people, not the corporations.

Now I am all for people succeeding when they work hard, but what exists in America right now isn't that. It is white collar slavery.

Enviroag02 said:

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My employer, and oil company, is currently 1 day per week WFH, but we are moving buildings in a month and most offices and cubicles will be eliminated in favor of bullpen style workstations with no privacy…all in the name of collaboration.

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But the CEO will continue to have his plush office and hot secretary.

Did you intend to sound like a Democrat? This is the crux of their anti-capitalist stance.

Enviroag02 said:

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My employer, and oil company, is currently 1 day per week WFH, but we are moving buildings in a month and most offices and cubicles will be eliminated in favor of bullpen style workstations with no privacy…all in the name of collaboration.

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I remember when my old pipeline company did this on the trade floor/scheduling desks. I worked in the control room so it didnt impact me, but man, were there some bitter folks when that remodel occurred.

Enviroag02 said:

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My employer, and oil company, is currently 1 day per week WFH, but we are moving buildings in a month and most offices and cubicles will be eliminated in favor of bullpen style workstations with no privacy…all in the name of collaboration.

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I think it's because of the Gen Y and Z employees.

infinity ag said:

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Companies have gone rogue. The rich owners have found a way to get obscenely rich while keeping wages in this country down by off shoring to other countries. When things go bad, they demand bail-outs of our money.

Heads I win, Tails you lose.

The Government needs to step in and add regulation on how these companies hire and fire. You cannot hire a bunch of people, then fire them (unless they did something wrong) and give the reason that they over-hired earlier. Lives and families are at stake. The Govt exists for the people, not the corporations.

Now I am all for people succeeding when they work hard, but what exists in America right now isn't that. It is white collar slavery.

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Kamala appreciates your support in the upcoming election comrade!

infinity ag said:

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Companies have gone rogue. The rich owners have found a way to get obscenely rich while keeping wages in this country down by off shoring to other countries. When things go bad, they demand bail-outs of our money.

Heads I win, Tails you lose.

The Government needs to step in and add regulation on how these companies hire and fire. You cannot hire a bunch of people, then fire them (unless they did something wrong) and give the reason that they over-hired earlier. Lives and families are at stake. The Govt exists for the people, not the corporations.

Now I am all for people succeeding when they work hard, but what exists in America right now isn't that. It is white collar slavery.

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I had no idea Bernie Sanders posted on this site. Welcome!

Aggie Jurist said:

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Quote:

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I can see this happen with a recent M&A but not so much with an established large company. Maybe it's just happening to contractors? Still kind of wild to me.

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Nope - I'm not a contractor. I'm a W-2 employee. It's the Hunger Games.

I find it rather comical at this point. I don't really have to work - so I'll ride off into the sunset and wait for another gig.

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Well, wow. I'm not even sure how they can do that. You are a labor lawyer; is this all on the up and up from an HR standpoint?

I've just never seen a company tell an employee that they have to be somewhere and then make the employee figure out how to get in the door and then campaign for a place to sit.

That is wild.

AgLA06 said:

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E_TX_Ag12 said:

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Aggie Jurist said:

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you need people to be able to meet in order to actually solve problems.

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I can't think of a single meeting where I thought "wow. That was a great and productive use of my time."

In my experience, people who like meetings are middle managers who need to justify their position.

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I get the sentiment, but I question how critical your role or product is. Because I've definitely seen my share of 911 fire drills where the S hit the fan and we had to get the right people together immediately or millions in dollars of penalties per day were going to hit the project.

That didn't mean they had to be in the same room, or office or time zone. But it necessitated the best minds right then. It's funny how if you respect great employees time and professionalism, they'll go above and beyond when it matters.

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Thank you for proving my point.

On the flip side, my buddies and I generally compare hypotheticals about how long it would take for our corporate overlords to fire you for quiet quitting.

Like not outright stopping work. But putting D level effort into work, office hours, answering emails. Knowing full well that you'll one day get the axe.

We all generally agreed about two years ago it would take a year and probably be asked to just move jobs within the company and be manufacturing's problem. Generally agree now it would be about six months and immediate axe.

But if the answer is quit on your own and get no severance, or slow play and get severance people are going to slow play it. Someone is going to return to office and just start writing the book they've always wanted to and see how long it takes to be let go.

In my company, it might take a little longer.

I have a coworker who day traded every day the year before COVID. I watched him. We were in a remote office with no onsite manager.

Once COVID hit, we all go home and this guy had literally zero production for the entire year. I watched in amazement.

He did finally engage again but nowhere near even average level of production.

Now, before he went into quiet quitting mode, he was a top performer. Perhaps that plays into it.

I will strongly consider doing what he did before I retire.

"I'm here in body but not in spirit" is the ethos to channel. The company is telling you they want clockwatchers so be the best clockwatcher you can.

one MEEN Ag said:

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On the flip side, my buddies and I generally compare hypotheticals about how long it would take for our corporate overlords to fire you for quiet quitting.

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Based on how much time we all spend on Texags, longer than we thought.

Sims said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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On the flip side, my buddies and I generally compare hypotheticals about how long it would take for our corporate overlords to fire you for quiet quitting.

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Based on how much time we all spend on Texags, longer than we thought.

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I'm not actually on here. I created an AI persona years ago that is making all of these posts. I was one of the first to do this, actually.

YouBet said:

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Sims said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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On the flip side, my buddies and I generally compare hypotheticals about how long it would take for our corporate overlords to fire you for quiet quitting.

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Based on how much time we all spend on Texags, longer than we thought.

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I'm not actually on here. I created an AI persona years ago that is making all of these posts. I was one of the first to do this, actually.

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I did the same, but mine is pointed towards my work email so I can be on here.

Sincerely,

Grok

Big companies pushed covid the hardest and now they mad.

Madagascar said:

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Did you intend to sound like a Democrat? This is the crux of their anti-capitalist stance.

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Stop throwing labels at people.
Right is right and wrong is wrong.

If being against scamming American citizens is what Democrats are for then I am a Democrat.

You seem to be one of those idiots who thinks that "if I work hard, I can one day become rich like Elon Musk!".

Keep waiting.