I'll add that i THINK the judge even instructed the jury that an unwanted kiss could be considered sexual abuse. Could be wrong, but I vaguely recall that.

So they asked: did she prove he raped her?
did they prove he "sexually abused" her?
did they prove he "forcibly touched" her.

On sexual abuse, the judge if I recall (and he gets into some of the samples in one of his opinions) said it could be whole range of things including an unwanted peck on the cheek (if I recall correctly)

They say no to rape. They say yes to sexual assault which the judge said could be a whole list of things (some of which would include digital penetration and some of which do not).

So especially in the context of how the jury was instructed, it becomes even more egregious to spin this to say "the jury found him liable for rape."

Mondemonium said:

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fredfredunderscorefred said:

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Mondemonium said:

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fredfredunderscorefred said:

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Mondemonium said:

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Reality Check said:

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Mondemonium said:

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Wild times we live in. Presidential candidate: "Forceable finger banging is not rape!"

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Wild times we live in. Someone who has zero witnesses to her ever having mentioned being raped by Donald Trump suddenly comes forward 30 years later -- with zero details (other than what was on "Law & Order") and persuades 12 Trump-hating jurors that she wasn't raped but was digitally penetrated and that she deserves $83.5 million because of it. Did I mention Trump not being allowed to testify that he has no idea who this woman is?

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The way you fight that is through an appeal. Trump can say he maintains his innocence and disagrees with the verdict, but trying to sue someone for calling him a rapist is dumb.

A civil jury found that he digitally penetrated her against her will, which falls under the broader definition of "rape." So calling him a rapist is a true statement unless that is reversed. As the other poster pointed out, it's fine to call OJ Simpson a murderer even though he was criminally acquitted. A civil jury found he did it.

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I can't find the verdict form from the civil trial, but I suspect when the jury is asked yes or no to murder (probably worded as causing the death), they answered "yes" as opposed to "no." Which would be different than answering "no" when asked if Carroll proved he raped her. Just a little different at least.

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No, you are exactly right. The jury marked "no" under the question of rape for Trump, but given the broader definitions of the word rape and with Trump being a public figure, the case is dumb.

All Snuffleupagus has to say is he wasn't using the narrow NY statutory definition of rape but the broader definition of rape that is in dictionaries and in the AG definition, etc...

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Except he was specifically saying "the jury" found him "liable for rape". The jury literally, not figuratively, found that she did not prove he raped her. They specifically found the opposite of what he is claiming.

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Yeah, I get what you are saying. What he said was factually "imprecise." I don't think that will carry the day in a lawsuit.

A civil jury found him not liable for [NY Statutory definition of] rape but liable for [broader, more modern and widely accepted definition of] rape. It's a misleading statement but is it defamatory?

Throw in the public figure aspect and it's dead in the water.


Is this a smart move, politically? It gets E Jean Carroll's accusations back out in the public discourse. Trump is a master of manipulating media focus so I think they have calculated this gives him some advantage.

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Well, as the "bloodbath" narrative crumbles, this isnt hard. These people are not intelligent people. Otherwise, they would not be "journalists". I put that in quotes because that's what they are pretending to be, not what they actually are.

The smartest people in our society dont become "journalists" -- the most self-righteous and those with a tall moral high-horse do -- anyone above that picks an occupation that produces things of value -- the rest are Jen Psaki's and Karrine Jean-Pierre's -- useless idiots for the DNC mouthpiece that they try to pass of as "news".

Mondemonium said:

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The way you fight that is through an appeal. Trump can say he maintains his innocence and disagrees with the verdict, but trying to sue someone for calling him a rapist is dumb.

A civil jury found that he digitally penetrated her against her will, which falls under the broader definition of "rape." So calling him a rapist is a true statement unless that is reversed. As the other poster pointed out, it's fine to call OJ Simpson a murderer even though he was criminally acquitted. A civil jury found he did it.

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The jury was asked if he raped her. The jury said no.

If you're ever called a rapist on ABC News, you'll be able to determine whether your approach to defending your character is "dumb."

Being POTUS shouldn't mean it's open season for partisan hacks in the media to call you a rapist 10 times in two minutes.

Trump: You can pay me $454 million in damages or you can directly pay my bill to Leticia and we call it even. If they want to cut you a break then so be it.

BadMoonRisin said:

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Damn, real estate in the heads of leftists wasnt enough, this man is going to own ABC news soon.

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Make ABC American again!

I'd bet the farm on a quick dismissal by the court, even in Florida. You may disagree, but I'm right.

I don't think anyone or anything could be scummier or more worthless than the politicians on both sides but the media is running a close second.

Mondemonium said:

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I'd bet the farm on a quick dismissal by the court, even in Florida. You may disagree, but I'm right.

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Three months.

LMCane said:

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more contributions going to the RNC for issues which affect every American!

keep it up patriots!

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I would off myself if someone lived in my head as much as Trump lives in yours

The D said:

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I would off myself if someone lived in my head as much as Trump lives in yours

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You people have convinced yourselves that an old guy with personal space (boundary) issues is an NCM pedophile, just because you don't like his politics.

Neither side has much room to talk when comparing obsessions.

One is much better for the country. The country is what we're interested in.

Quote:

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You people have convinced yourselves that an old guy with personal space (boundary) issues is an NCM pedophile, just because you don't like his politics.

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We didn't convince ourselves, the evidence did.

fredfredunderscorefred said:

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Lot of readers here will be surprised to learn that the jury specifically found he did NOT rape her

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only that he was liable for sexual abuse, which is practically gentlemanly by comparison!

Old McDonald said:

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fredfredunderscorefred said:

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Lot of readers here will be surprised to learn that the jury specifically found he did NOT rape her

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only that he was liable for sexual abuse, which is practically gentlemanly by comparison!

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And what day did that abuse happen?

Mondemonium said:

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fredfredunderscorefred said:

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Mondemonium said:

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fredfredunderscorefred said:

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Mondemonium said:

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Reality Check said:

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Mondemonium said:

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Wild times we live in. Presidential candidate: "Forceable finger banging is not rape!"

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Wild times we live in. Someone who has zero witnesses to her ever having mentioned being raped by Donald Trump suddenly comes forward 30 years later -- with zero details (other than what was on "Law & Order") and persuades 12 Trump-hating jurors that she wasn't raped but was digitally penetrated and that she deserves $83.5 million because of it. Did I mention Trump not being allowed to testify that he has no idea who this woman is?

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The way you fight that is through an appeal. Trump can say he maintains his innocence and disagrees with the verdict, but trying to sue someone for calling him a rapist is dumb.

A civil jury found that he digitally penetrated her against her will, which falls under the broader definition of "rape." So calling him a rapist is a true statement unless that is reversed. As the other poster pointed out, it's fine to call OJ Simpson a murderer even though he was criminally acquitted. A civil jury found he did it.

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I can't find the verdict form from the civil trial, but I suspect when the jury is asked yes or no to murder (probably worded as causing the death), they answered "yes" as opposed to "no." Which would be different than answering "no" when asked if Carroll proved he raped her. Just a little different at least.

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No, you are exactly right. The jury marked "no" under the question of rape for Trump, but given the broader definitions of the word rape and with Trump being a public figure, the case is dumb.

All Snuffleupagus has to say is he wasn't using the narrow NY statutory definition of rape but the broader definition of rape that is in dictionaries and in the AG definition, etc...

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Except he was specifically saying "the jury" found him "liable for rape". The jury literally, not figuratively, found that she did not prove he raped her. They specifically found the opposite of what he is claiming.

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Yeah, I get what you are saying. What he said was factually "imprecise." I don't think that will carry the day in a lawsuit.

A civil jury found him not liable for [NY Statutory definition of] rape but liable for [broader, more modern and widely accepted definition of] rape. It's a misleading statement but is it defamatory?

Throw in the public figure aspect and it's dead in the water.


Is this a smart move, politically? It gets E Jean Carroll's accusations back out in the public discourse. Trump is a master of manipulating media focus so I think they have calculated this gives him some advantage.

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It wasn't factually "imprecise". It was factually "FALSE".

donald trump had his day in court and was found liable for sexual abuse

i'll admit i didn't expect maga would be dumb enough to confidently trot out the "it wasn't rape it was just sexual abuse" defense but here we are

Old McDonald said:

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donald trump had his day in court and was found liable for sexual abuse

i'll admit i didn't expect maga would be dumb enough to confidently trot out the "it wasn't rape it was just sexual abuse" defense but here we are

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Please don't double down on stupid; there's a factual & legal difference between the two. You're stronger than your TDS; breathe and overcome this vile affliction of yours.

Old McDonald said:

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donald trump had his day in court and was found liable for sexual abuse

i'll admit i didn't expect maga would be dumb enough to confidently trot out the "it wasn't rape it was just sexual abuse" defense but here we are

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So like the lady herself, you don't know. Rock solid case by the corrupt dem DOJ I must say.

Old McDonald said:

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donald trump had his day in court and was found liable for sexual abuse

i'll admit i didn't expect maga would be dumb enough to confidently trot out the "it wasn't rape it was just sexual abuse" defense but here we are

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Spoken like a man. And you may not even understand that since I am a woman.

Think about it for a bit though.

4stringAg said:

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couldn't happen to a nicer guy. Stephanopolous is a wormy little ****, came in to that interview with a biased agenda and utterly insulted the woman he was interviewing.

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This !! ABC, NBC, CBS, NPT, NYT are all full of them. These aholes have been above the law for decades time that ends.

They should also be banned from quoting and standing behind "unnamed" sources.

ttu_85 said:

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4stringAg said:

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couldn't happen to a nicer guy. Stephanopolous is a wormy little ****, came in to that interview with a biased agenda and utterly insulted the woman he was interviewing.

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This !! ABC, NBC, CBS, NPT, NYT are all full of them. These aholes have been above the law for decades time that ends.

They should also be banned from quoting and standing behind "unnamed" sources.

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I was watching the interview as it aired. It was on right after the local news. It was disgusting, and I'm proud that Rep. Mace held her own against Snuffleupagus and his pathetic biased interviewing. I will actively turn him off any time I see him on TV now. Before it was a disinterest, now it's an active avoidance, should he darken my TV set again. While it may be a stretch, I hope ABC and Snuffleupagus gets what should be coming to them.

Antoninus said:

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The D said:

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I would off myself if someone lived in my head as much as Trump lives in yours

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You people have convinced yourselves that an old guy with personal space (boundary) issues is an NCM pedophile, just because you don't like his politics.

Neither side has much room to talk when comparing obsessions.

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We love our Non Compos Mentis (NCM) posters.

Old McDonald said:

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donald trump had his day in court and was found liable for sexual abuse

i'll admit i didn't expect maga would be dumb enough to confidently trot out the "it wasn't rape it was just sexual abuse" defense but here we are

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Do you paint rocks like crazy lady?

Ag in Tiger Country said:

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Old McDonald said:

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donald trump had his day in court and was found liable for sexual abuse

i'll admit i didn't expect maga would be dumb enough to confidently trot out the "it wasn't rape it was just sexual abuse" defense but here we are

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Please don't double down on stupid; there's a factual & legal difference between the two. You're stronger than your TDS; breathe and overcome this vile affliction of yours.

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this might be lefty communist marxist of me to say, but I believe sexual abuse is very bad, and "at least it wasn't rape" bargaining to be beneath even trump's most fanatical defenders

Old McDonald said:

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Ag in Tiger Country said:

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Old McDonald said:

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donald trump had his day in court and was found liable for sexual abuse

i'll admit i didn't expect maga would be dumb enough to confidently trot out the "it wasn't rape it was just sexual abuse" defense but here we are

---

Please don't double down on stupid; there's a factual & legal difference between the two. You're stronger than your TDS; breathe and overcome this vile affliction of yours.

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this might be lefty communist marxist of me to say, but I believe sexual abuse is very bad, and "at least it wasn't rape" bargaining to be beneath even trump's most fanatical defenders

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Sexual abuse is bad when it actually happens. I'm having my doubts with the lady's charges.

As loathsome as Kim Mulkey is, here's another example of why "actual malice" is an inappropriate standard for libel against a public figure or public official.

This type of hit piece journalism where a reporter works two years to dig up anonymous dirt on someone, lies to and about sources, and then publishes one side of a story with the sole purpose of defaming him or her needs to be reined in by SCOTUS.

https://www.cbssports.com/womens-college-basketball/news/lsu-coach-kim-mulkey-preempts-unreleased-report-during-march-madness-press-conference/

Reality Check said:

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As loathsome as Kim Mulkey is, here's another example of why "actual malice" is an inappropriate standard for libel against a public figure or public official.

This type of hit piece journalism where a reporter works two years to dig up anonymous dirt on someone, lies to and about sources, and then publishes one side of a story with the sole purpose of defaming him or her needs to be reined in by SCOTUS.

https://www.cbssports.com/womens-college-basketball/news/lsu-coach-kim-mulkey-preempts-unreleased-report-during-march-madness-press-conference/

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Perhaps they should have a "disparate impact" kind of standard, too, like they do with discrimination cases.

Mondemonium said:

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The judge used the word "rape." This case is so dumb. It also just draws more attention to the verdict again in an election year.



Wild times we live in. Presidential candidate: "Forceable finger banging is not rape!"

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It wasn't for Biden...

Old McDonald said:

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Ag in Tiger Country said:

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Old McDonald said:

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donald trump had his day in court and was found liable for sexual abuse

i'll admit i didn't expect maga would be dumb enough to confidently trot out the "it wasn't rape it was just sexual abuse" defense but here we are

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Please don't double down on stupid; there's a factual & legal difference between the two. You're stronger than your TDS; breathe and overcome this vile affliction of yours.

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this might be lefty communist marxist of me to say, but I believe sexual abuse is very bad, and "at least it wasn't rape" bargaining to be beneath even trump's most fanatical defenders

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With all due respect of course:
Bet you raised hell about your favorite president FJB assaulting the gal in his chambers right?

How bout ole Bill with the young subordinate Monica? Guess she consented though so that was no biggie I'm sure (how could she not?). Anyways, carry on.

Hell yes. That slimeball can GTH. I hope they break his ass.

Will this be televised?

No, but it will likely be videotaped.

Trump must also sit for a deposition as well.

Marxists outing themselves


They love it when their side uses lawfare or just plain bull ****, but when it happens to them they cry foul

What a repugnant group of people. I'd feel sorry for them… nah. I dont. They are enemies and made their own choices to be such.