Dark_Knight said:

---

Yea I read it, 2nd hand. None of what I've seen "written" by the Commandant seemed to be written by someone with his rank. The writing was atrocious.

Yea the retraction seemed a bit vague.

What's fishy is that you seemingly knew about this 2 months ago, but nothing said until a couple days ago. All of this is based off some Facebook post from a private group, no screenshots. Getting hearsay from a handful of people or "cadets" about what's going on from copy-pasted text is a red flag for me.

Yea it smells.

---

Yes, I made it all up.

Just because some people heard rumblings doesn't mean it was gonna happen. In fact, most people in the know (I am not one) thought it was just brain storming. Then it was released and everyone was shocked, cause it never was discussed in a group setting.

Multiple people have directed you to the document on page 4 or where ever it has been posted.

It is not my fault the commandant chose to post on some private facebook group that I am not a part of.

Don't like the fact that the current Commandant did everything in secret, then chose to post to a private Facebook group? Take that up with him.

I can assure you everything I have posted is 100% true to my knowledge.

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

Dark_Knight said:

---

Dude, that's not even what I'm saying, never said D&C didn't matter.
No, I'm not leaving the thread. Wow, you are getting petty.

So you supposedly knew about it for 2months prior? See, there's a lot of fishy things like this that causes me to question the validity of all the claims.

---

I think he jumped to that conclusion when you said you agreed with a lot of the sentiments posted by others when his point was talking about how D&C cadets are at best tolerated.


I know recruiting in general for the military is down nationwide. I'm sure the Corps is struggling as well. But you already have thousands of kids going through your adjacent ROTC program. Those are your biggest opportunities at bringing in fresh numbers. So figure out why D&C kids aren't taking commissions. Then figure out how you can increase recruitment in both D&C type guys and Contract guys. If they are the same strategies, great. If they are different, then that's fine too. If some outfits have waiting lists for one or the other, figure out why those outfits are so successful and help them grow based on their strategies and culture they have built up over decades.

---

I'm all for that. I always hated that I could never find enough info on the outfits, other than some basic biography of history and maybe academic focus.

Dark_Knight said:

---

Yea I read it, 2nd hand. None of what I've seen "written" by the Commandant seemed to be written by someone with his rank. The writing was atrocious.

Yea the retraction seemed a bit vague.

What's fishy is that you seemingly knew about this 2 months ago, but nothing said until a couple days ago. All of this is based off some Facebook post from a private group, no screenshots. Getting hearsay from a handful of people or "cadets" about what's going on from copy-pasted text is a red flag for me.

Yea it smells.

---

I'm on the Facebook page too and read it myself.

The only thing that smells is the incompetence of the leader in charge that had this out as potential policy and then got it leaked.

aggiez03 said:

---

Dark_Knight said:

---

Yea I read it, 2nd hand. None of what I've seen "written" by the Commandant seemed to be written by someone with his rank. The writing was atrocious.

Yea the retraction seemed a bit vague.

What's fishy is that you seemingly knew about this 2 months ago, but nothing said until a couple days ago. All of this is based off some Facebook post from a private group, no screenshots. Getting hearsay from a handful of people or "cadets" about what's going on from copy-pasted text is a red flag for me.

Yea it smells.

---

Yes, I made it all up.

---

Reading comprehension is hard it seems.

I'm not saying it's all made up. There's a hint of truth in there, but a lot of this seems like some hyper exaggeration and convenience.

Dark_Knight said:

---

aggiez03 said:

---

Dark_Knight said:

---

Yea I read it, 2nd hand. None of what I've seen "written" by the Commandant seemed to be written by someone with his rank. The writing was atrocious.

Yea the retraction seemed a bit vague.

What's fishy is that you seemingly knew about this 2 months ago, but nothing said until a couple days ago. All of this is based off some Facebook post from a private group, no screenshots. Getting hearsay from a handful of people or "cadets" about what's going on from copy-pasted text is a red flag for me.

Yea it smells.

---

Yes, I made it all up.

---

Reading comprehension is hard it seems.

I'm not saying it's all made up. There's a hint of truth in there, but a lot of this seems like some hyper exaggeration and convenience.

---

I certainly read between the lines that you were suggesting those weren't michaelis's words posted from Facebook. They are.

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

Dark_Knight said:

---

Yea I read it, 2nd hand. None of what I've seen "written" by the Commandant seemed to be written by someone with his rank. The writing was atrocious.

Yea the retraction seemed a bit vague.

What's fishy is that you seemingly knew about this 2 months ago, but nothing said until a couple days ago. All of this is based off some Facebook post from a private group, no screenshots. Getting hearsay from a handful of people or "cadets" about what's going on from copy-pasted text is a red flag for me.

Yea it smells.

---

I'm on the Facebook page too and read it myself.

The only thing that smells is the incompetence of the leader in charge that had this out as potential policy and then got it leaked.

---

Cool and agree. He's going about this the wrong way.

I just don't automatically believe everything I read on the internet, especially that's 2nd hand.

I'm not saying there's not something going on, as I said, there's a hint of truth to all this chaos. There's also a lot of knee jerk emotions going on and some exaggeration it seems. I'm just trying to filter through the bs.

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

Dark_Knight said:

---

aggiez03 said:

---

Dark_Knight said:

---

Yea I read it, 2nd hand. None of what I've seen "written" by the Commandant seemed to be written by someone with his rank. The writing was atrocious.

Yea the retraction seemed a bit vague.

What's fishy is that you seemingly knew about this 2 months ago, but nothing said until a couple days ago. All of this is based off some Facebook post from a private group, no screenshots. Getting hearsay from a handful of people or "cadets" about what's going on from copy-pasted text is a red flag for me.

Yea it smells.

---

Yes, I made it all up.

---

Reading comprehension is hard it seems.

I'm not saying it's all made up. There's a hint of truth in there, but a lot of this seems like some hyper exaggeration and convenience.

---

I certainly read between the lines that you were suggesting those weren't michaelis's words posted from Facebook. They are.

---

Yea, I'm questioning the validity because copy-pasted text can be altered. Screenshots would be more apt.

My sophomore in the Corps mentioned this a small aspect of the proposed changes over Christmas break; specifically about fish being in fish dorms. This change has been in the works for a while it seems.

akm91 said:

---

My sophomore in the Corps mentioned this a small aspect of the proposed changes over Christmas break; specifically about fish being in fish dorms. This change has been in the works for a while it seems.

---

they'll do whatever the hell they want.

akm91 said:

---

My sophomore in the Corps mentioned this a small aspect of the proposed changes over Christmas break; specifically about fish being in fish dorms. This change has been in the works for a while it seems.

---

this seems fishy. Your cadet is telling you things that 'might' happen.

Did he give it to you in writing with the Corps seal at the top?

I am not sure I believe you then...



Before anyone freaks out, please note this is dripping with sarcasm...

Gator92 said:

---

TX_COWDOC said:

---

---

1. Completely remove the Trigon from cadet leadership decisions.
2. Completely remove the Trigon from cadet leadership decisions.
3. Completely remove the Trigon from cadet leadership decisions.

---

I agree in principle, but how else will leadership be determined? A popularity vote?

aggiez03 said:

---

akm91 said:

---

My sophomore in the Corps mentioned this a small aspect of the proposed changes over Christmas break; specifically about fish being in fish dorms. This change has been in the works for a while it seems.

---

this seems fishy. Your cadet is telling you things that 'might' happen.

Did he give it to you in writing with the Corps seal at the top?

I am not sure I believe you then...



Before anyone freaks out, please note this is dripping with sarcasm...

---

No you're not butthurt and petty at all.

aggiez03 said:

---

Chancellor had spoken...

https://f5s-img.s3.amazonaws.com/000/8e/b2/8eb2ad43d1539e8b6fdebe931bfdd36ccc618ccb_122261_u44351.jpg

---

Can the source of this and/or the full email chain be provided?
Its a nice image, but there is nothing to confirm its authenticity.

Dark_Knight said:

---

aggiez03 said:

---

akm91 said:

---

My sophomore in the Corps mentioned this a small aspect of the proposed changes over Christmas break; specifically about fish being in fish dorms. This change has been in the works for a while it seems.

---

this seems fishy. Your cadet is telling you things that 'might' happen.

Did he give it to you in writing with the Corps seal at the top?

I am not sure I believe you then...



Before anyone freaks out, please note this is dripping with sarcasm...

---

No you're not butthurt and petty at all.

---

It's a joke dude.



It is funny because you are asking me for proof when it should be the Trigon and Commandant who should be releasing actual copies of plans he has for the Corps and the retraction.

Funny thing is I am being questioned, but I am not the one that posted the text on Pg 4 or the Retraction (that was Tx_CowDoc who I don't even know).

So this is all just some giant collusion (for what possible reason?) OR maybe there are multiple sources who are corroborating what I initially posted a few days ago.

It is not my fault that he chooses not to release these things publicly.

Call the Trigon and ask for an official document on what exactly occurred or file a FOIA request.

Evaluation is Key said:

---

aggiez03 said:

---

Chancellor had spoken...

---

Can the source of this and/or the full email chain be provided?
Its a nice image, but there is nothing to confirm its authenticity.

---

Unfortunately I don't have that info..

Wish he would make a public statement.

I am fine with everyone being skeptical. I am just passing along info as it comes in.

UPDATE: It was sent to a cadet, so it is real, unless the cadet created it.

In my time, we had an application/interview process that was entirely conducted by cadets. No input whatsoever from the Bulls.

We took it seriously.

That changed my senior year. Application/interview process similar, but the Trigon started blessing 1st butt and junior staff positions. This in my opinion started a much more widespread resentment of minor/major/corps staffs and another reason to resent the Trigon.

At the time, we all figured it was so the Trigon could fill leadership w/ contracts...

Dark_Knight said:

---

Gator92 said:

---

TX_COWDOC said:

---

---

1. Completely remove the Trigon from cadet leadership decisions.
2. Completely remove the Trigon from cadet leadership decisions.
3. Completely remove the Trigon from cadet leadership decisions.

---

I agree in principle, but how else will leadership be determined? A popularity vote?

---

I think the individuals in the class above you should get a weighted say in their replacements, with input factored in from both your class and the rest of the classes above you.

Commandant and bulls should get minor input on Corps commander and staff rat positions. As in, they get to discuss what they do or don't like about the replacements the Corps commander comes up with, although allowing the Corps Commander to make the final decision.

aggiez03 said:

---

Evaluation is Key said:

---

aggiez03 said:

---

Chancellor had spoken...

---

Can the source of this and/or the full email chain be provided?
Its a nice image, but there is nothing to confirm its authenticity.

---

Unfortunately I don't have that info..

Wish he would make a public statement.

I am fine with everyone being skeptical. I am just passing along info as it comes in.

---

so my email worked!

This was basically the way it worked then. Major unit and corps staff choices did go through the Trigon for approval. Mostly just sergeant majors.

aggiez03 said:

---

Dark_Knight said:

---

aggiez03 said:

---

akm91 said:

---

My sophomore in the Corps mentioned this a small aspect of the proposed changes over Christmas break; specifically about fish being in fish dorms. This change has been in the works for a while it seems.

---

this seems fishy. Your cadet is telling you things that 'might' happen.

Did he give it to you in writing with the Corps seal at the top?

I am not sure I believe you then...



Before anyone freaks out, please note this is dripping with sarcasm...

---

No you're not butthurt and petty at all.

---

It's a joke dude.



It is funny because you are asking me for proof when it should be the Trigon and Commandant who should be releasing actual copies of plans he has for the Corps and the retraction. Funny thing is I am being questioned, but I am not the one that posted the text on Pg 4 or the Retraction (that was Tx_CowDoc who I don't even know).

It is not my fault that he chooses not to release these things publicly.

Call the Trigon and ask for an official document on what exactly occurred or file a FOIA request.

---

Yes they should be releasing info.

I'm not questioning you directly, but everything being presented thus far.

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

Dark_Knight said:

---

Gator92 said:

---

TX_COWDOC said:

---

---

1. Completely remove the Trigon from cadet leadership decisions.
2. Completely remove the Trigon from cadet leadership decisions.
3. Completely remove the Trigon from cadet leadership decisions.

---

I agree in principle, but how else will leadership be determined? A popularity vote?

---

I think the individuals in the class above you should get a weighted say in their replacements, with input factored in from both your class and the rest of the classes above you.

Commandant and bulls should get minor input on Corps commander and staff rat positions. As in, they get to discuss what they do or don't like about the replacements the Corps commander comes up with, although allowing the Corps Commander to make the final decision.

---

I could get behind that

Apparently Sharp has weighed in now too.

Saw a screen shot of an email response he sent saying splitting the fish out doesn't contribute to cadets leading and learning to lead.

I have lots of issue with Sharp, but he was right on Sully and appears to be right again on this.

Dark_Knight said:

---

aggiez03 said:

---

Dark_Knight said:

---

aggiez03 said:

---

akm91 said:

---

My sophomore in the Corps mentioned this a small aspect of the proposed changes over Christmas break; specifically about fish being in fish dorms. This change has been in the works for a while it seems.

---

this seems fishy. Your cadet is telling you things that 'might' happen.

Did he give it to you in writing with the Corps seal at the top?

I am not sure I believe you then...



Before anyone freaks out, please note this is dripping with sarcasm...

---

No you're not butthurt and petty at all.

---

It's a joke dude.



It is funny because you are asking me for proof when it should be the Trigon and Commandant who should be releasing actual copies of plans he has for the Corps and the retraction. Funny thing is I am being questioned, but I am not the one that posted the text on Pg 4 or the Retraction (that was Tx_CowDoc who I don't even know).

It is not my fault that he chooses not to release these things publicly.

Call the Trigon and ask for an official document on what exactly occurred or file a FOIA request.

---

Yes they should be releasing info.

I'm not questioning you directly, but everything being presented thus far.

---

Sounds fair. Skepticism is good.

I am just passing along information so that former CTs have it.

I can't personally guarantee it is 100% accurate, but I won't knowingly post false info.

aggie93 said:

---

Comeby! said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

Here's a thought. People like All Male and All Female outfits. Not everyone but most do. The opportunity to be in an All Male or All Female outfit is a very appealing one because you bond a hell of a lot closer than if you have an integrated outfit because the rules are the level of connection is going to be different.

---

I agree with everything you posted except this part. There was an all female unit years ago. I wasn't a part of the corps then but I'm sure that unit wasn't treated in a way a soldier, statesman and knightly gentleman should. Additionally with that logic, you could justify an all-white unit. It's what some cadets could really want, right? This isn't about what the cadets/recruit want,necessarily. It's what's best for the graduates of Texas A&M. Notice it didn't say anything about what's best for the military which I think is where we are misaligned with the commandant. He needs to realize that he's to be a steward of all Aggie cadets not just contract or what his prior job obligated him to be.

We and the commandant is not addressing the 'why aren't people joining the corps' part. Or the why aren't people whipping out. With his proposal, to some extent we are throwing out the baby with the bath water.

---

Actually I very much know what I am talking about. When I was a Freshman it was the last year before integration. We had an All Female outfit in my dorm a couple floors down. They did things a little differently but they had high retention numbers and high morale. They were treated with respect and if you said the "W" word or didn't treat upperclassmen with the same respect as you would any males you would feel the full fury and your buddies along with you.

Then they integrated and it was a disaster. There was a point I honestly wondered if they would have any females left. There were multiple sexual harassment cases that came about over the next couple of years and virtually all of them were dropped later as they were found to be false, one female cadet admitted she made it up because she just wanted to transfer and had to have an excuse or else she would lose her scholarship. Almost ruined a highly respected leader's life.

Over time they figured it out and it has improved. Still the point is that you can offer both experiences.

Oh and this couldn't be more different than an "All White" outfit and that's frankly insulting. You have legitimate logistical issues with an integrated outfit you don't have with a non integrated outfit. If you have 50 guys on a dorm room floor and 4 females the 50 guys get to share one bathroom and the 4 girls share the other for instance. Unless you have at least 10 females in an outfit it will be unbalanced because you won't have mentors of the same sex across classes and that absolutely matters, especially for female cadets. You can't have an upperclassman barge into a room. You have to be much more aware of what you say and do in an integrated environment that is a challenge in that environment. Female cadets obviously don't have their head shaved and are treated differently. Female cadets have different physical standards.

The irony of your statement is that race doesn't impact any of that and if you go back historically A&M actually integrated races much easier than Texas did. Why? The entire point of the Corps is everyone is treated the same and you have to earn respect. Doesn't matter if you are rich or poor or if your Daddy was a General. Everyone is just a fish and all that matters is what they do and earn on their own. That environment makes it easy for racial integration to occur. Sexual integration by definition though means you have different treatment for one sex vs another and that leads to a different experience.

I'm fine with integrated outfits and I think they absolutely have value. I know of many female cadets that are far superior to many male cadets including some that can kick their ass on a PT test. Still there are differences between the sexes and that is reflected by the mandated (and necessary) difference in treatment as I gave examples of above. I don't think there is any harm in allowing males or females an opportunity to have a non integrated outfit and the fact that half the Corps isn't joining the military makes that even more pointed.

---

I cannot possibly star this enough.

We are competing with all the other STUDENT organizations on campus for freshman. Including 62,000+ NON-REGS. Current CoC Composition: 60+% Non-Contract and 40ish % Military Contract. What is the CoC Value Proposition to the incoming freshman? If you legitimately want to grow the Corps you MUST attract MORE Non-Contract cadets!! You MUST provide more options than we currently see in the CoC for outfits. It cannot be a "military only" view. It cannot be 3 or 4 outfits that are All Male out of 34, oh.....and No all-female outfits. You will never reach the goal if that is the approach. It must be a Military based leadership laboratory "developing leaders for our State and Nation", embracing all that means on a campus as diverse as A&M's is.......that must be the approach to win at recruiting Cadets to reach 3,000, and more!

Can't vouch for the authenticity of any of the supplied pictures by the Commandant. But if you go to link provided there is a 3 question google doc through the association indicating the Commandant is asking for input on the same 3 questions outlined in the picture

It's all authentic. Of note is the suggestion by the Commandant in his memo response that this was 'just a proposal' when the reality is that the plan was rolled out to cadet leadership this week.

I don't doubt the authenticity but for those that do. That is the best I can offer

Gator92 said:

---

TX_COWDOC said:

---

---

1. Completely remove the Trigon from cadet leadership decisions.
2. Completely remove the Trigon from cadet leadership decisions.
3. Completely remove the Trigon from cadet leadership decisions.

---

It's never been that way...
and it never will be.

You skipped a few posts later where someone corrected me.

That's what has already happened to the university, so why might as well do it to the corps too and complete the modern academia bingo card.

Y'all seem to be conceding the point that this plan is objectively better for training military officers and not just one man's opinion supported by nothing but his own echo chamber.

Exactly. It's a false dichotomy.