A friend who graduated in the early 90's highlighted the unique thing about the Corps of Cadets. It is not an ROTC that meets periodically. It is Corps that that lives together. It is also not isolated like the military academies with only the Corps. Every day he stepped off the quad and had to interact in the civilian world. Really nothing else like it.
Major Corps Changes - Political BS
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Last: 8 mo ago by Tex100
You forget the part that there are a ton of kids that want to join the Corps for the fraternal part. The frats are all boys and sororities are all girls for a reason. If the non integrated outfits are the ones with the waiting lists, they are doing something right. I know there was an all girl outfit at one time that did not work. But, why won't it now that there are so many more female cadets. Have the female cadets ever been asked if they would like an all female outfit?
And don't tell me that you need to learn to follow orders from females because you will have to in the real world or in the military world. That's not what this is about. I was in an all male outfit and I have never had a problem taking orders from a female. Not in the working world or any of the countless boards I've served on....And my wife tells me what to wear
.
And don't tell me that you need to learn to follow orders from females because you will have to in the real world or in the military world. That's not what this is about. I was in an all male outfit and I have never had a problem taking orders from a female. Not in the working world or any of the countless boards I've served on....And my wife tells me what to wear
. Actually I very much know what I am talking about. When I was a Freshman it was the last year before integration. We had an All Female outfit in my dorm a couple floors down. They did things a little differently but they had high retention numbers and high morale. They were treated with respect and if you said the "W" word or didn't treat upperclassmen with the same respect as you would any males you would feel the full fury and your buddies along with you.Comeby! said:aggie93 said:
Here's a thought. People like All Male and All Female outfits. Not everyone but most do. The opportunity to be in an All Male or All Female outfit is a very appealing one because you bond a hell of a lot closer than if you have an integrated outfit because the rules are the level of connection is going to be different.
I agree with everything you posted except this part. There was an all female unit years ago. I wasn't a part of the corps then but I'm sure that unit wasn't treated in a way a soldier, statesman and knightly gentleman should. Additionally with that logic, you could justify an all-white unit. It's what some cadets could really want, right? This isn't about what the cadets/recruit want,necessarily. It's what's best for the graduates of Texas A&M. Notice it didn't say anything about what's best for the military which I think is where we are misaligned with the commandant. He needs to realize that he's to be a steward of all Aggie cadets not just contract or what his prior job obligated him to be.
We and the commandant is not addressing the 'why aren't people joining the corps' part. Or the why aren't people whipping out. With his proposal, to some extent we are throwing out the baby with the bath water.
Then they integrated and it was a disaster. There was a point I honestly wondered if they would have any females left. There were multiple sexual harassment cases that came about over the next couple of years and virtually all of them were dropped later as they were found to be false, one female cadet admitted she made it up because she just wanted to transfer and had to have an excuse or else she would lose her scholarship. Almost ruined a highly respected leader's life.
Over time they figured it out and it has improved. Still the point is that you can offer both experiences.
Oh and this couldn't be more different than an "All White" outfit and that's frankly insulting. You have legitimate logistical issues with an integrated outfit you don't have with a non integrated outfit. If you have 50 guys on a dorm room floor and 4 females the 50 guys get to share one bathroom and the 4 girls share the other for instance. Unless you have at least 10 females in an outfit it will be unbalanced because you won't have mentors of the same sex across classes and that absolutely matters, especially for female cadets. You can't have an upperclassman barge into a room. You have to be much more aware of what you say and do in an integrated environment that is a challenge in that environment. Female cadets obviously don't have their head shaved and are treated differently. Female cadets have different physical standards.
The irony of your statement is that race doesn't impact any of that and if you go back historically A&M actually integrated races much easier than Texas did. Why? The entire point of the Corps is everyone is treated the same and you have to earn respect. Doesn't matter if you are rich or poor or if your Daddy was a General. Everyone is just a fish and all that matters is what they do and earn on their own. That environment makes it easy for racial integration to occur. Sexual integration by definition though means you have different treatment for one sex vs another and that leads to a different experience.
I'm fine with integrated outfits and I think they absolutely have value. I know of many female cadets that are far superior to many male cadets including some that can kick their ass on a PT test. Still there are differences between the sexes and that is reflected by the mandated (and necessary) difference in treatment as I gave examples of above. I don't think there is any harm in allowing males or females an opportunity to have a non integrated outfit and the fact that half the Corps isn't joining the military makes that even more pointed.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
Ronald Reagan
Ronald Reagan
Women were added to the Corps in the fall of 1974. Originally they only wore name tags over civilian clothes. I guess by fall of 75, dorm 1 was renovated to house Company W-1 and civilian women. They were known as Waggies and were not exactly welcomed. If nothing else, Duncan Dining Hall had to tone down a little bit. It was a fun and rowdy environment.
I saw in 12th Man Magazine (I think) this month where Thomas Darling said he was proud of creating coed outfits as Commandant because the women said they didn't have the same as men.
I saw in 12th Man Magazine (I think) this month where Thomas Darling said he was proud of creating coed outfits as Commandant because the women said they didn't have the same as men.
EDITED because I can't readQuote:
There was an all female unit years ago. I wasn't a part of the corps then
When Women first entered the Corps in 1974, there was a single all-female unit. Lasted a few years before integration.
Regarding mixed sex units, they can do that at the Academies, because 20% or so are female. You can't do that at A&M, because the female % is too low, and to evenly distribute women would have one or two per outfit. They have to allow some all-male units, to get enough women into each integrated unit.
As I mentioned the All Female outfits absolutely worked. The year after they integrated they had massive female attrition and very few of the females that were in that All Female outfit that were moved to Integrated outfits ended up finishing out in the Corps. I knew 3 that had ROTC scholarships they walked away from, they really enjoyed the All Female environment and hated the integrated one.El Guero said:
You forget the part that there are a ton of kids that want to join the Corps for the fraternal part. The frats are all boys and sororities are all girls for a reason. If the non integrated outfits are the ones with the waiting lists, they are doing something right. I know there was an all girl outfit at one time that did not work. But, why won't it now that there are so many more female cadets. Have the female cadets ever been asked if they would like an all female outfit?
And don't tell me that you need to learn to follow orders from females because you will have to in the real world or in the military world. That's not what this is about. I was in an all male outfit and I have never had a problem taking orders from a female. Not in the working world or any of the countless boards I've served on....And my wife tells me what to wear
The other big shift for good or bad was prior to the integration you had very little dating among Corps members. It wasn't banned and it certainly happened but it was nothing like now. Now dating among Corps buddies is as normal as can be. Prior to that most male Corps members dated outside the Corps and female Corps members tended to date less and instead spent more time with other females. While dating among the Corps is fine it also can create other problems, especially among college students, as obviously that's not designed to be a feature of Corps training.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
Ronald Reagan
Ronald Reagan
I thought it was more than hazing, jealousy perhaps, that broke them up.
The integration happened in the Fall of 1990 though they had long since gotten rid of W-1 and simply had an all female outfit in each branch. In the Wing it was Squadron 14.CanyonAg77 said:EDITED because I can't readQuote:
There was an all female unit years ago. I wasn't a part of the corps then
When Women first entered the Corps in 1974, there was a single all-female unit. Lasted a few years before integration.
Regarding mixed sex units, they can do that at the Academies, because 20% or so are female. You can't do that at A&M, because the female % is too low, and to evenly distribute women would have one or two per outfit. They have to allow some all-male units, to get enough women into each integrated unit.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
Ronald Reagan
Ronald Reagan
So much this and invariably the standards are lowered to accommodate female cadets.Quote:
Also the bulls and others who are woke d bags likely don't like the non-integrated (all-male) outfits because the all-male ones continuously, every year, dominate the awards for grades, athletics, etc. This is simply unexplainable to the woke losers, but being very close with my own non-integrated outfit and many of my buddies moving into integrated outfits--there are just unresolvable issues with integrated outfits and both female and male cadets being held to the same standards.
"And liberals, being liberals, will double down on failure." - dedgod
Actually, Virginia Tech is exactly the same.Tex100 said:
A friend who graduated in the early 90's highlighted the unique thing about the Corps of Cadets. It is not an ROTC that meets periodically. It is Corps that that lives together. It is also not isolated like the military academies with only the Corps. Every day he stepped off the quad and had to interact in the civilian world. Really nothing else like it.
This.Quote:
The integration happened in the Fall of 1990 though they had long since gotten rid of W-1 and simply had an all female outfit in each branch. In the Wing it was Squadron 14.
Also remember that most if not all of the outfits that got integrated changed their names.
Thrashin' 3 became Avenger 5 for instance. They would rather be able to say that "their" outfit never got integrated and kill it than keep up the tradition. This was decided by each outfit individually.
My buddies and I discussed the possibility and all agreed to keep the outfit going. We didn't get integrated at that time though.
W-1 was Army and Sq. 14 was Air Force when I showed up in 1988.aggie93 said:CanyonAg77 said:Quote:
The integration happened in the Fall of 1990 though they had long since gotten rid of W-1 and simply had an all female outfit in each branch. In the Wing it was Squadron 14.
I think you're right about 1990 being when they integrated.
HollywoodBQ said:W-1 was Army and Sq. 14 was Air Force when I showed up in 1988.aggie93 said:CanyonAg77 said:Quote:
The integration happened in the Fall of 1990 though they had long since gotten rid of W-1 and simply had an all female outfit in each branch. In the Wing it was Squadron 14.
I think you're right about 1990 being when they integrated.
My buddy swears the all female outfits weren't allowed to stay because they had the worst hazing on the quad.
Is there truth to this?
I think C-2 was Navy shortly there after.
I wonder if they still have a "Bag a Wag" ribbon or if it became something different?
I wonder if they still have a "Bag a Wag" ribbon or if it became something different?
V Tech - School and Corps about half the size
Folks, We need to focus here! I know it is fun to talk about other issues the Corps faces, but the Corps is facing a potential crisis! Arguing over W-1 in 1974 isn't going to keep the Class of 28 fish from not living with their outfits. What you need to ask yourself is what are you going to do today to keep this from happening?aggie93 said:Actually I very much know what I am talking about. When I was a Freshman it was the last year before integration. We had an All Female outfit in my dorm a couple floors down. They did things a little differently but they had high retention numbers and high morale. They were treated with respect and if you said the "W" word or didn't treat upperclassmen with the same respect as you would any males you would feel the full fury and your buddies along with you.Comeby! said:aggie93 said:
Here's a thought. People like All Male and All Female outfits. Not everyone but most do. The opportunity to be in an All Male or All Female outfit is a very appealing one because you bond a hell of a lot closer than if you have an integrated outfit because the rules are the level of connection is going to be different.
I agree with everything you posted except this part. There was an all female unit years ago. I wasn't a part of the corps then but I'm sure that unit wasn't treated in a way a soldier, statesman and knightly gentleman should. Additionally with that logic, you could justify an all-white unit. It's what some cadets could really want, right? This isn't about what the cadets/recruit want,necessarily. It's what's best for the graduates of Texas A&M. Notice it didn't say anything about what's best for the military which I think is where we are misaligned with the commandant. He needs to realize that he's to be a steward of all Aggie cadets not just contract or what his prior job obligated him to be.
We and the commandant is not addressing the 'why aren't people joining the corps' part. Or the why aren't people whipping out. With his proposal, to some extent we are throwing out the baby with the bath water.
Then they integrated and it was a disaster. There was a point I honestly wondered if they would have any females left. There were multiple sexual harassment cases that came about over the next couple of years and virtually all of them were dropped later as they were found to be false, one female cadet admitted she made it up because she just wanted to transfer and had to have an excuse or else she would lose her scholarship. Almost ruined a highly respected leader's life.
Over time they figured it out and it has improved. Still the point is that you can offer both experiences.
Oh and this couldn't be more different than an "All White" outfit and that's frankly insulting. You have legitimate logistical issues with an integrated outfit you don't have with a non integrated outfit. If you have 50 guys on a dorm room floor and 4 females the 50 guys get to share one bathroom and the 4 girls share the other for instance. Unless you have at least 10 females in an outfit it will be unbalanced because you won't have mentors of the same sex across classes and that absolutely matters, especially for female cadets. You can't have an upperclassman barge into a room. You have to be much more aware of what you say and do in an integrated environment that is a challenge in that environment. Female cadets obviously don't have their head shaved and are treated differently. Female cadets have different physical standards.
The irony of your statement is that race doesn't impact any of that and if you go back historically A&M actually integrated races much easier than Texas did. Why? The entire point of the Corps is everyone is treated the same and you have to earn respect. Doesn't matter if you are rich or poor or if your Daddy was a General. Everyone is just a fish and all that matters is what they do and earn on their own. That environment makes it easy for racial integration to occur. Sexual integration by definition though means you have different treatment for one sex vs another and that leads to a different experience.
I'm fine with integrated outfits and I think they absolutely have value. I know of many female cadets that are far superior to many male cadets including some that can kick their ass on a PT test. Still there are differences between the sexes and that is reflected by the mandated (and necessary) difference in treatment as I gave examples of above. I don't think there is any harm in allowing males or females an opportunity to have a non integrated outfit and the fact that half the Corps isn't joining the military makes that even more pointed.
As is The Citadel.HollywoodBQ said:Actually, Virginia Tech is exactly the same.Tex100 said:
A friend who graduated in the early 90's highlighted the unique thing about the Corps of Cadets. It is not an ROTC that meets periodically. It is Corps that that lives together. It is also not isolated like the military academies with only the Corps. Every day he stepped off the quad and had to interact in the civilian world. Really nothing else like it.
About 1200 out of 29,000 undergraduates.Tex100 said:
How big is the Va Tech Corps of Cadets?
A&M is 2500 out of 57,000 undergraduates, so about the same ratio.
El Guero said:
You forget the part that there are a ton of kids that want to join the Corps for the fraternal part. The frats are all boys and sororities are all girls for a reason. If the non integrated outfits are the ones with the waiting lists, they are doing something right. I know there was an all girl outfit at one time that did not work. But, why won't it now that there are so many more female cadets. Have the female cadets ever been asked if they would like an all female outfit?
And don't tell me that you need to learn to follow orders from females because you will have to in the real world or in the military world. That's not what this is about. I was in an all male outfit and I have never had a problem taking orders from a female. Not in the working world or any of the countless boards I've served on....And my wife tells me what to wear
I think this is why people make fun of the Aggie Corps. Like when Mike Leach ripped them.
most people in the country think of people dressing up in military uniforms as being part of the Reserve Officer Training Corps and going on to become military officers.
if someone wants to join a fraternity as the poster above states- JOIN A FRATERNITY.
other than just being a weird hybrid legacy at Texas A&M, why would the US military care about if undergrads want to join a fraternity?!
it's hard enough to find people to serve in the Army, why not just focus on actually creating well trained Army officers rather than a fun social life?
Because that isn't the primary purpose of the Corps of Cadets. The entire military benefits from it though because it creates an officer's recruiting ground for them from people who might never have considered military service. If you want the corps to have a higher percentage of more commissioned members, maybe ask D&C guys why they didn't have a desire to join up after dealing with the actual ROTC portion of the corps for two years.
If you think that the Corps is just another Frat, Please move along and get off this thread.LMCane said:El Guero said:
You forget the part that there are a ton of kids that want to join the Corps for the fraternal part. The frats are all boys and sororities are all girls for a reason. If the non integrated outfits are the ones with the waiting lists, they are doing something right. I know there was an all girl outfit at one time that did not work. But, why won't it now that there are so many more female cadets. Have the female cadets ever been asked if they would like an all female outfit?
And don't tell me that you need to learn to follow orders from females because you will have to in the real world or in the military world. That's not what this is about. I was in an all male outfit and I have never had a problem taking orders from a female. Not in the working world or any of the countless boards I've served on....And my wife tells me what to wear
I think this is why people make fun of the Aggie Corps. Like when Mike Leach ripped them.
most people in the country think of people dressing up in military uniforms as being part of the Reserve Officer Training Corps and going on to become military officers.
if someone wants to join a fraternity as the poster above states- JOIN A FRATERNITY.
other than just being a weird hybrid legacy at Texas A&M, why would the US military care about if undergrads want to join a fraternity?!
it's hard enough to find people to serve in the Army, why not just focus on actually creating well trained Army officers rather than a fun social life?
The Corps membership is majority D&C, not contract cadets and has been for 20+ years.
The Commandant was hired to run the Texas A&M Corps of Cadets, not to run an ROTC detachment. There is a difference.
Seriously quit arguing with a NONREG that knows nothing about the Corps! He is here to distract us.aggiez03 said:If you think that the Corps is just another Frat, Please move along and get off this thread.LMCane said:El Guero said:
You forget the part that there are a ton of kids that want to join the Corps for the fraternal part. The frats are all boys and sororities are all girls for a reason. If the non integrated outfits are the ones with the waiting lists, they are doing something right. I know there was an all girl outfit at one time that did not work. But, why won't it now that there are so many more female cadets. Have the female cadets ever been asked if they would like an all female outfit?
And don't tell me that you need to learn to follow orders from females because you will have to in the real world or in the military world. That's not what this is about. I was in an all male outfit and I have never had a problem taking orders from a female. Not in the working world or any of the countless boards I've served on....And my wife tells me what to wear
I think this is why people make fun of the Aggie Corps. Like when Mike Leach ripped them.
most people in the country think of people dressing up in military uniforms as being part of the Reserve Officer Training Corps and going on to become military officers.
if someone wants to join a fraternity as the poster above states- JOIN A FRATERNITY.
other than just being a weird hybrid legacy at Texas A&M, why would the US military care about if undergrads want to join a fraternity?!
it's hard enough to find people to serve in the Army, why not just focus on actually creating well trained Army officers rather than a fun social life?
The Corps membership is majority D&C, not contract cadets and has been for 20+ years.
The Commandant was hired to run the Texas A&M Corps of Cadets, not to run an ROTC detachment. There is a difference.
Email all the Regents, the President of the Foundation, The President of the University, the President of the CCA. Fight for the Cadets that are on the Quad today, they are great young people and worth fighting for.
There in lies the issue...aggiez03 said:If you think that the Corps is just another Frat, Please move along and get off this thread.LMCane said:El Guero said:
You forget the part that there are a ton of kids that want to join the Corps for the fraternal part. The frats are all boys and sororities are all girls for a reason. If the non integrated outfits are the ones with the waiting lists, they are doing something right. I know there was an all girl outfit at one time that did not work. But, why won't it now that there are so many more female cadets. Have the female cadets ever been asked if they would like an all female outfit?
And don't tell me that you need to learn to follow orders from females because you will have to in the real world or in the military world. That's not what this is about. I was in an all male outfit and I have never had a problem taking orders from a female. Not in the working world or any of the countless boards I've served on....And my wife tells me what to wear
I think this is why people make fun of the Aggie Corps. Like when Mike Leach ripped them.
most people in the country think of people dressing up in military uniforms as being part of the Reserve Officer Training Corps and going on to become military officers.
if someone wants to join a fraternity as the poster above states- JOIN A FRATERNITY.
other than just being a weird hybrid legacy at Texas A&M, why would the US military care about if undergrads want to join a fraternity?!
it's hard enough to find people to serve in the Army, why not just focus on actually creating well trained Army officers rather than a fun social life?
The Corps membership is majority D&C, not contract cadets and has been for 20+ years.
The Commandant was hired to run the Texas A&M Corps of Cadets, not to run an ROTC detachment. There is a difference.
Does the Corps exist to build officers for the military? It's historic mission...
Or does it exist to be a fraternal organization that has a leadership component?
I am explaining the 'why' and flagging the post for de-railing. The more people on our side the better.ELREY said:Seriously quit arguing with a NONREG that knows nothing about the Corps! He is here to distract us.aggiez03 said:If you think that the Corps is just another Frat, Please move along and get off this thread.LMCane said:El Guero said:
You forget the part that there are a ton of kids that want to join the Corps for the fraternal part. The frats are all boys and sororities are all girls for a reason. If the non integrated outfits are the ones with the waiting lists, they are doing something right. I know there was an all girl outfit at one time that did not work. But, why won't it now that there are so many more female cadets. Have the female cadets ever been asked if they would like an all female outfit?
And don't tell me that you need to learn to follow orders from females because you will have to in the real world or in the military world. That's not what this is about. I was in an all male outfit and I have never had a problem taking orders from a female. Not in the working world or any of the countless boards I've served on....And my wife tells me what to wear
I think this is why people make fun of the Aggie Corps. Like when Mike Leach ripped them.
most people in the country think of people dressing up in military uniforms as being part of the Reserve Officer Training Corps and going on to become military officers.
if someone wants to join a fraternity as the poster above states- JOIN A FRATERNITY.
other than just being a weird hybrid legacy at Texas A&M, why would the US military care about if undergrads want to join a fraternity?!
it's hard enough to find people to serve in the Army, why not just focus on actually creating well trained Army officers rather than a fun social life?
The Corps membership is majority D&C, not contract cadets and has been for 20+ years.
The Commandant was hired to run the Texas A&M Corps of Cadets, not to run an ROTC detachment. There is a difference.
Email all the Regents, the President of the Foundation, The President of the University, the President of the CCA. Fight for the Cadets that are on the Quad today, they are great young people and worth fighting for.
Way past you on this..
oh and by the way, the Military board on Texags is worthless...
. I think of the Citadel and VMI as still being mainly cadets as students. Maybe I'm wrongfc2112 said:As is The Citadel.HollywoodBQ said:Actually, Virginia Tech is exactly the same.Tex100 said:
A friend who graduated in the early 90's highlighted the unique thing about the Corps of Cadets. It is not an ROTC that meets periodically. It is Corps that that lives together. It is also not isolated like the military academies with only the Corps. Every day he stepped off the quad and had to interact in the civilian world. Really nothing else like it.
Cant it be bothK2-HMFIC said:There in lies the issue...aggiez03 said:If you think that the Corps is just another Frat, Please move along and get off this thread.LMCane said:El Guero said:
You forget the part that there are a ton of kids that want to join the Corps for the fraternal part. The frats are all boys and sororities are all girls for a reason. If the non integrated outfits are the ones with the waiting lists, they are doing something right. I know there was an all girl outfit at one time that did not work. But, why won't it now that there are so many more female cadets. Have the female cadets ever been asked if they would like an all female outfit?
And don't tell me that you need to learn to follow orders from females because you will have to in the real world or in the military world. That's not what this is about. I was in an all male outfit and I have never had a problem taking orders from a female. Not in the working world or any of the countless boards I've served on....And my wife tells me what to wear
I think this is why people make fun of the Aggie Corps. Like when Mike Leach ripped them.
most people in the country think of people dressing up in military uniforms as being part of the Reserve Officer Training Corps and going on to become military officers.
if someone wants to join a fraternity as the poster above states- JOIN A FRATERNITY.
other than just being a weird hybrid legacy at Texas A&M, why would the US military care about if undergrads want to join a fraternity?!
it's hard enough to find people to serve in the Army, why not just focus on actually creating well trained Army officers rather than a fun social life?
The Corps membership is majority D&C, not contract cadets and has been for 20+ years.
The Commandant was hired to run the Texas A&M Corps of Cadets, not to run an ROTC detachment. There is a difference.
Does the Corps exist to build officers for the military? It's historic mission...
Or does it exist to be a fraternal organization that has a leadership component?
Tom Kazansky 2012 said:
Also the bulls and others who are woke d bags likely don't like the non-integrated (all-male) outfits because the all-male ones continuously, every year, dominate the awards for grades, athletics, etc.
I don't remember that being the case at all when I was in the Corps. Athletics maybe, because E-1 and H-1 always made that a focus, but they were never outstanding in grades, recruiting, inspections, or anything else. I'd really have to look back at least year's, but I think an all male outfit only won a single award, and integrated B-Co took Hochmuth and GM. I also remember them winning GM while I was there as well, and I know we did because I have the cord to prove it.
I think it can...but the Commandant seems to be prioritizing military officer development over DNC. The central complaint being: that shift is taking away from the DNC experience...Tex100 said:Cant it be bothK2-HMFIC said:There in lies the issue...aggiez03 said:If you think that the Corps is just another Frat, Please move along and get off this thread.LMCane said:El Guero said:
You forget the part that there are a ton of kids that want to join the Corps for the fraternal part. The frats are all boys and sororities are all girls for a reason. If the non integrated outfits are the ones with the waiting lists, they are doing something right. I know there was an all girl outfit at one time that did not work. But, why won't it now that there are so many more female cadets. Have the female cadets ever been asked if they would like an all female outfit?
And don't tell me that you need to learn to follow orders from females because you will have to in the real world or in the military world. That's not what this is about. I was in an all male outfit and I have never had a problem taking orders from a female. Not in the working world or any of the countless boards I've served on....And my wife tells me what to wear
I think this is why people make fun of the Aggie Corps. Like when Mike Leach ripped them.
most people in the country think of people dressing up in military uniforms as being part of the Reserve Officer Training Corps and going on to become military officers.
if someone wants to join a fraternity as the poster above states- JOIN A FRATERNITY.
other than just being a weird hybrid legacy at Texas A&M, why would the US military care about if undergrads want to join a fraternity?!
it's hard enough to find people to serve in the Army, why not just focus on actually creating well trained Army officers rather than a fun social life?
The Corps membership is majority D&C, not contract cadets and has been for 20+ years.
The Commandant was hired to run the Texas A&M Corps of Cadets, not to run an ROTC detachment. There is a difference.
Does the Corps exist to build officers for the military? It's historic mission...
Or does it exist to be a fraternal organization that has a leadership component?
My thoughts as a former Cadet and a serving officer? I don't care...the Corps historic and central mission is to build officers for the United States.
My son is in an integrated outfit and the outfit bonding is and has been apathetic. He definitely has not experienced the Corps experience he had hoped for.Quote:
he opportunity to be in an All Male or All Female outfit is a very appealing one because you bond a hell of a lot closer than if you have an integrated outfit because the rules are the level of connection is going to be different.
"And liberals, being liberals, will double down on failure." - dedgod
That may have been the case decades ago but it is no longer the central mission.Quote:
My thoughts as a former Cadet and a serving officer? I don't care...the Corps historic and central mission is to build officers for the United States.
"And liberals, being liberals, will double down on failure." - dedgod
That is good to know.K2-HMFIC said:I think it can...but the Commandant seems to be prioritizing military officer development over DNC. The central complaint being: that shift is taking away from the DNC experience...Tex100 said:Cant it be bothK2-HMFIC said:There in lies the issue...aggiez03 said:If you think that the Corps is just another Frat, Please move along and get off this thread.LMCane said:El Guero said:
You forget the part that there are a ton of kids that want to join the Corps for the fraternal part. The frats are all boys and sororities are all girls for a reason. If the non integrated outfits are the ones with the waiting lists, they are doing something right. I know there was an all girl outfit at one time that did not work. But, why won't it now that there are so many more female cadets. Have the female cadets ever been asked if they would like an all female outfit?
And don't tell me that you need to learn to follow orders from females because you will have to in the real world or in the military world. That's not what this is about. I was in an all male outfit and I have never had a problem taking orders from a female. Not in the working world or any of the countless boards I've served on....And my wife tells me what to wear
I think this is why people make fun of the Aggie Corps. Like when Mike Leach ripped them.
most people in the country think of people dressing up in military uniforms as being part of the Reserve Officer Training Corps and going on to become military officers.
if someone wants to join a fraternity as the poster above states- JOIN A FRATERNITY.
other than just being a weird hybrid legacy at Texas A&M, why would the US military care about if undergrads want to join a fraternity?!
it's hard enough to find people to serve in the Army, why not just focus on actually creating well trained Army officers rather than a fun social life?
The Corps membership is majority D&C, not contract cadets and has been for 20+ years.
The Commandant was hired to run the Texas A&M Corps of Cadets, not to run an ROTC detachment. There is a difference.
Does the Corps exist to build officers for the military? It's historic mission...
Or does it exist to be a fraternal organization that has a leadership component?
My thoughts as a former Cadet and a serving officer? I don't care...the Corps historic and central mission is to build officers for the United States.
When the Corps is 60+% D&C and these actions drive away everyone but the 4 year contract cadets that are basically at A&M cause they got a scholarship (I know these guys, cause my old lady was one - attended 3 football games in 4 years); remember that you said you couldn't care less that the Corps as it has been for over 50 years should have fundamental changes.
The cadets who are in the Corps because their dads and grandads were, who love A&M, and participate in EVERYTHING. Those are the cadets that are the Keepers of the Spirit. Are some contract? Sure. Are most of them? Not by a long shot.
K2-HMFIC said:I think it can...but the Commandant seems to be prioritizing military officer development over DNC. The central complaint being: that shift is taking away from the DNC experience...Tex100 said:Cant it be bothK2-HMFIC said:There in lies the issue...aggiez03 said:If you think that the Corps is just another Frat, Please move along and get off this thread.LMCane said:El Guero said:
You forget the part that there are a ton of kids that want to join the Corps for the fraternal part. The frats are all boys and sororities are all girls for a reason. If the non integrated outfits are the ones with the waiting lists, they are doing something right. I know there was an all girl outfit at one time that did not work. But, why won't it now that there are so many more female cadets. Have the female cadets ever been asked if they would like an all female outfit?
And don't tell me that you need to learn to follow orders from females because you will have to in the real world or in the military world. That's not what this is about. I was in an all male outfit and I have never had a problem taking orders from a female. Not in the working world or any of the countless boards I've served on....And my wife tells me what to wear
I think this is why people make fun of the Aggie Corps. Like when Mike Leach ripped them.
most people in the country think of people dressing up in military uniforms as being part of the Reserve Officer Training Corps and going on to become military officers.
if someone wants to join a fraternity as the poster above states- JOIN A FRATERNITY.
other than just being a weird hybrid legacy at Texas A&M, why would the US military care about if undergrads want to join a fraternity?!
it's hard enough to find people to serve in the Army, why not just focus on actually creating well trained Army officers rather than a fun social life?
The Corps membership is majority D&C, not contract cadets and has been for 20+ years.
The Commandant was hired to run the Texas A&M Corps of Cadets, not to run an ROTC detachment. There is a difference.
Does the Corps exist to build officers for the military? It's historic mission...
Or does it exist to be a fraternal organization that has a leadership component?
My thoughts as a former Cadet and a serving officer? I don't care...the Corps historic and central mission is to build officers for the United States.
It's mission is to build leaders in all settings, not just military. This shift is emphasizing more on developing leaders at the expense of the fraternal aspects. At the end of the day it will still be a mix of both, just with a bigger emphasis on leadership.
Isn't the mission still "to produce leaders of character and competence for the state and nation?" Or did that change?
----------------
Without the Corps, (A&M) would be just another huge public university. The Corps ensures our traditions will continue even as it reforms and modernizes itself. The Corps has its problems and its flaws but, like it or not,...it is the Corps that makes A&M different-and better. That is why I believe the Corps deserves the support of every Aggie. Including me.
-ranger65 01/31/08 (Dr Robert Gates)
Without the Corps, (A&M) would be just another huge public university. The Corps ensures our traditions will continue even as it reforms and modernizes itself. The Corps has its problems and its flaws but, like it or not,...it is the Corps that makes A&M different-and better. That is why I believe the Corps deserves the support of every Aggie. Including me.
-ranger65 01/31/08 (Dr Robert Gates)
Focusing on the tensions between contract and D&C misses the point, I think. The real issue here is that the training of fish, particularly in the first semester, is the center of gravity for the entire organization. From the beginning to the end of your time in the corps that is practically the sole focus of every corps activity. The nature of a hierarchical leadership structure means that there are fewer active roles each year, but that's ok because the upperclassmen who don't have leadership positions still have the camaraderie and by that time have other things to do.
It is difficult to imagine the impact of a fundamental shift like this. You're really cutting to the heart of everything the corps does.
(For context - 07 D&C cadet, also commissioned officer after graduation)
It is difficult to imagine the impact of a fundamental shift like this. You're really cutting to the heart of everything the corps does.
(For context - 07 D&C cadet, also commissioned officer after graduation)
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