Hindsight - Ron DeSantis

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Tea Party
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In reply to Ag with kids • 12:48p, 1/16/24
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Tea Party said:
Forgive me for the essay, but this conversation is going in circles because you are ignoring the most imporant reason people are voting for Trump and the longer it takes you and other people to understand it the harder it will be to win this election and preserve the GOP. Quit blaming people that vote for Trump and start understanding why they are voting that way AND why DeSantis does not fulfill that void.

The primary reason people are voting Trump (the placeholder, not the person) is because they have lost trust in the federal government and unelected beaurocrats. They have lost trust in the election process. They have lost trust in the GOP. They have lost trust that leftism and conservatism can coexist IF we have a large federal government instead of states rights.

DeSantis represents maintaining a big federal government, working within it for his term(s) for short term gains, but ultimately the corrupt system will still remain. We want the corrupt system fixed more than we want short term gains.

Trump certainly cannot achieve those goals because he's an old unpolished mentally degrading buffoon, but due to the establishment and corrupt government's attacks on him he unfortunately is that placeholder.

I've said countless times that the right can be united under DeSantis if he starts going after the corruption at the purple federal level, not just in red Florida. The right will only be united under Trump once people realize the GOP has been duping them for decades, thus forcing the GOP to be conservative which would make Trump no longer needed.
Ag with kids said:
Unfortunately, for many of them he is NOT a placeholder, he is the tip of the spear (yeah, biblical reference in a nod to another thread). And they HAVE to vote for TRUMP. Not his ideals.

BTW, how can DeSantis "go after corruption at the purple federal level, not just in red Florida" UNLESS he gets into a FEDERAL job? You know, the one MAGA wants for Trump...
Yes, for many he is the chosen one. The same can be said for those that white knight DeSantis.
I'm not talking about the fringes but rather the bulk in the middle between Trump and DeSantis that are open to either person with small changes.

There are countless ways DeSantis can go after the federal level when the federal level gives us daily problems that can be addressed, legally or morally. How can Abbott push the envelope vs the federal government on the border? He has always had the opportunity and just finally found his balls to take a stand I've been talking about wanting him to do that for over 3 years now with this board giving the same excuse of "but it's the federal job" nonsense. A significant portion of Trump voters would gladly support DeSantis if he took similar stands.
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Tea Party
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In reply to Ag with kids • 12:52p, 1/16/24
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Tea Party said:
Agree to disagree. Let's just watch the GOP stay divided then and see how that fairs in the long run....
Ag with kids said:
Funny that the GOP has been divided since Trump jumped in but somehow it's everyone else's fault.
The GOP has been divided for long before Trump came onto the scene. See my username for a clear as day example...

The funny thing is the GOP voters were most united when Trump first took office, however the down ballot GOP politicians did not like the change and fought back. The GOP voters however did not anticipate this much push back when they foolishly voted in that many down ballot establishment GOP types in 2016.
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Who?mikejones!
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In reply to Ag with kids • 12:53p, 1/16/24
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Tea Party said:
Agree to disagree. Let's just watch the GOP stay divided then and see how that fairs in the long run....
Ag with kids said:
Funny that the GOP has been divided since Trump jumped in but somehow it's everyone else's fault.


Trumps not a republican. He's not a conservative. He's a populist with strong nationalist undertones which is pretty much directly counter to the globalist establishment that is the vast majority of our leadership.

That, to me, explains the roots of his supporters.
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Dan Scott
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12:54p, 1/16/24
2008 financial crisis changed the country and Republican party forever.
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to BoydCrowder13 • 12:54p, 1/16/24
BoydCrowder13 said:
See Pence. Working for Trump does not benefit your political career.

Had he gone the sycophant VP route, there is a high likelihood he would be fully despised by Trump and MAGA by 2028.


This. Trump is the kind of guy who tries to take credit for anything positive and shifts blame for anything negative. He does not want subordinates or peers to get any kind of credit or look good because they might outshine him. He sees others as either tools or threats, but never partners. You either serve the Don, or you're in the way. There's nothing in-between.

That said, he doesn't care about this country or conservatism. He cares about getting elected and stroking his own ego. He couldn't give a **** less about who follows him up as president and what their politics are unless it's one of his kids. The last thing he wants is a popular VP (or any other position) becoming bigger than him. He will cut anyone down the second he thinks they're usurping his popularity.
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Ag with kids
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In reply to Tea Party • 12:56p, 1/16/24
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Ag with kids said:
Unfortunately, for many of them he is NOT a placeholder, he is the tip of the spear (yeah, biblical reference in a nod to another thread). And they HAVE to vote for TRUMP. Not his ideals.

BTW, how can DeSantis "go after corruption at the purple federal level, not just in red Florida" UNLESS he gets into a FEDERAL job? You know, the one MAGA wants for Trump...
Tea Party said:
Yes, for many he is the chosen one. The same can be said for those that white knight DeSantis.
I'm not talking about the fringes but rather the bulk in the middle between Trump and DeSantis that are open to either person with small changes.

There are countless ways DeSantis can go after the federal level when the federal level gives us daily problems that can be addressed, legally or morally. How can Abbott push the envelope vs the federal government on the border? He has always had the opportunity and just finally found his balls to take a stand I've been talking about wanting him to do that for over 3 years now with this board giving the same excuse of "but it's the federal job" nonsense. A significant portion of Trump voters would gladly support DeSantis if he took similar stands.
That is not true about DeSantis. His supporters want him because he's the first GOP candidate that's actually done the things that GOP voters have been screaming about for years.

But, it's because of the policies, and not the person. Transfer the things he's done to Joe the Plumber and his supporters would jump straight over to JTP...

Trump supporters won't leave Trump regardless of policy...they are emotionally tied to the person.

And DeSantis HAS done a number of things that can reach up to the federal level, but there's only so much that any governor can do LEGALLY...
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Who?mikejones!
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In reply to Dan Scott • 12:56p, 1/16/24
9/11 changed it first. The big govt dems and neo cons got a major foothold and never relinquished
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Some Junkie Cosmonaut
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12:57p, 1/16/24
This board is going to be awful until 2025.

Watching people be made into hypocrites while trying to call others hypocrites is already tiresome.
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Ag with kids
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In reply to Some Junkie Cosmonaut • 1:01p, 1/16/24
Some Junkie Cosmonaut said:
This board is going to be awful until 2025.

Watching people be made into hypocrites while trying to call others hypocrites is already tiresome.
Please expound on this...
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BigRobSA
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In reply to Some Junkie Cosmonaut • 1:01p, 1/16/24
Some Junkie Cosmonaut said:
This board is going to be awful until 2025.

Watching people be made into hypocrites while trying to call others hypocrites is already tiresome.



Exactly what I'd expect a hypocrite to say.







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Tea Party
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In reply to Ag with kids • 1:03p, 1/16/24
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Tea Party said:
Yes, for many he is the chosen one. The same can be said for those that white knight DeSantis.
I'm not talking about the fringes but rather the bulk in the middle between Trump and DeSantis that are open to either person with small changes.

There are countless ways DeSantis can go after the federal level when the federal level gives us daily problems that can be addressed, legally or morally. How can Abbott push the envelope vs the federal government on the border? He has always had the opportunity and just finally found his balls to take a stand I've been talking about wanting him to do that for over 3 years now with this board giving the same excuse of "but it's the federal job" nonsense. A significant portion of Trump voters would gladly support DeSantis if he took similar stands.
Ag with kids said:
That is not true about DeSantis. His supporters want him because he's the first GOP candidate that's actually done the things that GOP voters have been screaming about for years.

But, it's because of the policies, and not the person. Transfer the things he's done to Joe the Plumber and his supporters would jump straight over to JTP...

Trump supporters won't leave Trump regardless of policy...they are emotionally tied to the person.

And DeSantis HAS done a number of things that can reach up to the federal level, but there's only so much that any governor can do LEGALLY...
That's my point, it is true about DeSantis but you saying it isn't does not make it factual. The love for DeSantis is that he can go into the corrupt federal government and take on the establishment all by himself just because he has done something similar in Florida. Though it never gets mentioned that Florida is red, no longer purple thanks to the D's push for socialism that Cubans strongly oppose, thus the gov DeSantis worked with for his achievements is significantly easier than D.C.

I want DeSantis to succeed if he wins the nomination, but I'm not naive enough to put all my eggs in one basket when history shows that no single man can alter the course of our corrupt bloated federal government.

Reagan failed.
Bush Sr failed.
Bush Jr failed.
Trump failed.
Why do you think DeSantis is all of a sudden going to succeed? That's insanity by definition and the only way to alter that course is to have DeSantis be bolder AND to have the GOP down ballot support said boldness. And I agree on your JTP comment. It's not a anti-DeSantis position but rather an anti corrupt bloated federal government, which the GOP unfortunately is actively aiding.

It's a GOP down ballot problem. The top of the ticket is secondary.
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BigRobSA
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In reply to Who?mikejones! • 1:03p, 1/16/24
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Ag with kids said:
Funny that the GOP has been divided since Trump jumped in but somehow it's everyone else's fault.
Agthatbuilds said:


Trumps not a republican. He's not a conservative. He's a populist with strong nationalist undertones which is pretty much directly counter to the globalist establishment that is the vast majority of our leadership.

That, to me, explains the roots of his supporters.


The anti-globalist with factories all over, including Chi-nuh and Meh-he-ko?

LOLK
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Science Denier
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In reply to Tea Party • 1:03p, 1/16/24
Agthatbuilds said:
Your premise is flawed because Trump, the man himself, is a main reason people vote for him.

There's nothing that disputes that.

those feelings about the state of our govt exist and Trump has convinced people he is their victim hood personified.
Tea Party said:
Some people, yes.
A main reason, yes.
The main reson, I strongly disagree.

Agree to disagree. Let's just watch the GOP stay divided then and see how that fairs in the long run....


Republicans were divided when the tea party took over. The establishment embraced it once, but saw their power diminishing and then nixed it. Yea Party became the bad guy, even though it didn't have a leader.

Now it's MAGA, but MAGA has a leader in Trump. So these establishment republicans didn't want another Tea Party so they jumped on him early.

But he won anyway. And despite the cheating going on (see Detroit recount). So the attacks came from the right. Lincoln Project is just one example. Thumbs down McCain. Paul Ryan and the list goes on.

Trump realized the only way to unite the party is to primary the dividers who only want power and don't GAF about the voters.

Was successful. Got rid of quite a few.

So next comes thr narrative that if you don't kiss the ring of Trump, he hates you. Can't let the people have power. Too dangerous to the establishment.

Trump is no more the divider of our party than the Tea Party was. The dividers are the establishment that see trying to hang on to their power.

Trump knows this, and fortunately, voters see catching on as time goes by.
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Who?mikejones!
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In reply to BigRobSA • 1:04p, 1/16/24
No, the one who bans people from entering and enacts emabrgos and taxes on trade.

Does Trump have factories all over China?

Regardless, that's how Trump presents himself and people buy it
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halfastros81
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In reply to Some Junkie Cosmonaut • 1:07p, 1/16/24
I like this board. There are a lot of good thoughts and ideas here. There is also a lot of craziness and misinformation . Separating one from the other is the trick .
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aggiehawg
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1:16p, 1/16/24
What is concerning to me about DeSantis is that he appeared to be more popular when many people did not know a lot about him. So much so, his well publicized announcement on twitter crashed their servers. People were open to him.

Then he does the full Grassley camping out in Iowa for months. Iowans got to see him up close and weigh his policies and positions. Yet, he couldn't sway them to his side when the time came to vote. For months he was bouncing around within the same few polling points. He did gain several points between the last poll and the final results yesterday, so that was progress. But was it enough for the donor class?
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Who?mikejones!
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In reply to aggiehawg • 1:19p, 1/16/24
Remember when they blamed him for the Twitter crash? I remember many prognosticators saying his campaign was over at that moment and he wouldn't recover.

Maybe they were right
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BenFiasco14
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2:00p, 1/16/24
I just think it's mind boggling people think Trump has any shot of winning in 2024.
CNN is an enemy of the state and should be treated as such.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to Who?mikejones! • 2:03p, 1/16/24
Agthatbuilds said:
Remember when they blamed him for the Twitter crash? I remember many prognosticators saying his campaign was over at that moment and he wouldn't recover.

Maybe they were right
And I thought the people saying that were missing the big picture. There was that much interest in him.
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Who?mikejones!
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In reply to BenFiasco14 • 2:05p, 1/16/24
BenFiasco14 said:
I just think it's mind boggling people think Trump has any shot of winning in 2024.


But the polls!


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samurai_science
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In reply to BenFiasco14 • 2:08p, 1/16/24
BenFiasco14 said:
I just think it's mind boggling people think Trump has any shot of winning in 2024.
Florida at least keeps a good leader, but America is screwed.
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BenFiasco14
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In reply to Who?mikejones! • 2:08p, 1/16/24
BenFiasco14 said:
I just think it's mind boggling people think Trump has any shot of winning in 2024.
Agthatbuilds said:


But the polls!




F the polls serious people need to start having serious discussions about how the hell we can save this country from 4 more years of clown world. We need to start shoring up support in our local communities to align for mutual self defense. Things are going to get much worse - especially because with Trump as the 800 pound anchor around the republicans necks we will lose more seats as well in both houses.

Come on people.
CNN is an enemy of the state and should be treated as such.
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Who?mikejones!
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In reply to BenFiasco14 • 2:11p, 1/16/24
That what someone responded to me with earlier. I'm with you. No way is Trump winning in November.

And he is gonna screw our golden opportunity at flipping the senate, again, and guarantee we have no chance of keeping the house.

Then we've got full dem control for at least 2 more years and who knows what they'll pass. Probably expansion of the court for sure and then some social bs and tax hikes.
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ttu_85
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In reply to aggiehawg • 2:13p, 1/16/24
aggiehawg said:
What is concerning to me about DeSantis is that he appeared to be more popular when many people did not know a lot about him. So much so, his well publicized announcement on twitter crashed their servers. People were open to him.

Then he does the full Grassley camping out in Iowa for months. Iowans got to see him up close and weigh his policies and positions. Yet, he couldn't sway them to his side when the time came to vote. For months he was bouncing around within the same few polling points. He did gain several points between the last poll and the final results yesterday, so that was progress. But was it enough for the donor class?
I'd perfer to think for myself. I dont care that he is not the greatest speaker or is 9' tall. I care about his policy and record. Not what Iowans think.

I do know DeSantis's main competition and I see a old, deeply troubled man that likes to have his boots licked. And cares only for himself as evident by leaving two GA Republican senator candidates without help in a run off that led to the rats taking the Senate in 2020. That is when I lifted the middle finger to that self-centered jackass

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sanangelo
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In reply to Dan Scott • 2:14p, 1/16/24
Dan Scott said:
2008 financial crisis changed the country and Republican party forever.
Obama changed the country and the Republican Party forever. Trump was a direct reaction to 8 years of hamfisted division by Obama.
San Angelo LIVE!
https://sanangelolive.com/
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MaxPower
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In reply to Who?mikejones! • 2:17p, 1/16/24
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Ag with kids said:
Funny that the GOP has been divided since Trump jumped in but somehow it's everyone else's fault.
Agthatbuilds said:


Trumps not a republican. He's not a conservative. He's a populist with strong nationalist undertones which is pretty much directly counter to the globalist establishment that is the vast majority of our leadership.

That, to me, explains the roots of his supporters.
Agree that Trump is more like a 50's conservative Democrat (hard to imagine there ever was such a thing). That said, the positions of all the GOP candidates are largely the same. Thats driven by Trump and the thing he caught onto before anyone else. Really the only division in the party is the man. Some love him, some hate him. Him attacking his own party isn't really helping the GOP. Hell, who is he gonna pick for VP that he doesn't have to backtrack why he thought they were the worst yesterday but the best today?
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ttu_85
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In reply to ABATTBQ11 • 2:17p, 1/16/24
BoydCrowder13 said:
See Pence. Working for Trump does not benefit your political career.

Had he gone the sycophant VP route, there is a high likelihood he would be fully despised by Trump and MAGA by 2028.
ABATTBQ11 said:


This. Trump is the kind of guy who tries to take credit for anything positive and shifts blame for anything negative. He does not want subordinates or peers to get any kind of credit or look good because they might outshine him. He sees others as either tools or threats, but never partners. You either serve the Don, or you're in the way. There's nothing in-between.

That said, he doesn't care about this country or conservatism. He cares about getting elected and stroking his own ego. He couldn't give a **** less about who follows him up as president and what their politics are unless it's one of his kids. The last thing he wants is a popular VP (or any other position) becoming bigger than him. He will cut anyone down the second he thinks they're usurping his popularity.
Oh you mean a narcissist. Yeah lets elect one of those to unite the country much less conservatism.

Good on the money post.
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Some Junkie Cosmonaut
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In reply to ttu_85 • 2:18p, 1/16/24
I'm pretty sure just about anyone running for President is probably got a good amount of narcissistic tendencies.
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Some Junkie Cosmonaut
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In reply to ttu_85 • 2:20p, 1/16/24
aggiehawg said:
What is concerning to me about DeSantis is that he appeared to be more popular when many people did not know a lot about him. So much so, his well publicized announcement on twitter crashed their servers. People were open to him.

Then he does the full Grassley camping out in Iowa for months. Iowans got to see him up close and weigh his policies and positions. Yet, he couldn't sway them to his side when the time came to vote. For months he was bouncing around within the same few polling points. He did gain several points between the last poll and the final results yesterday, so that was progress. But was it enough for the donor class?
ttu_85 said:
I'd perfer to think for myself. I dont care that he is not the greatest speaker or is 9' tall. I care about his policy and record. Not what Iowans think.

I do know DeSantis's main competition and I see a old, deeply troubled man that likes to have his boots licked. And cares only for himself as evident by leaving two GA Republican senator candidates without help in a run off that led to the rats taking the Senate in 2020. That is when I lifted the middle finger to that self-centered jackass



Neat.

I like RD too but none of that matters because he apparently can't even budge the needle much less move it.
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Beat40
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In reply to Tea Party • 2:21p, 1/16/24
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Ag with kids said:
That is not true about DeSantis. His supporters want him because he's the first GOP candidate that's actually done the things that GOP voters have been screaming about for years.

But, it's because of the policies, and not the person. Transfer the things he's done to Joe the Plumber and his supporters would jump straight over to JTP...

Trump supporters won't leave Trump regardless of policy...they are emotionally tied to the person.

And DeSantis HAS done a number of things that can reach up to the federal level, but there's only so much that any governor can do LEGALLY...
Tea Party said:
That's my point, it is true about DeSantis but you saying it isn't does not make it factual. The love for DeSantis is that he can go into the corrupt federal government and take on the establishment all by himself just because he has done something similar in Florida. Though it never gets mentioned that Florida is red, no longer purple thanks to the D's push for socialism that Cubans strongly oppose, thus the gov DeSantis worked with for his achievements is significantly easier than D.C.

I want DeSantis to succeed if he wins the nomination, but I'm not naive enough to put all my eggs in one basket when history shows that no single man can alter the course of our corrupt bloated federal government.

Reagan failed.
Bush Sr failed.
Bush Jr failed.
Trump failed.
Why do you think DeSantis is all of a sudden going to succeed? That's insanity by definition and the only way to alter that course is to have DeSantis be bolder AND to have the GOP down ballot support said boldness. And I agree on your JTP comment. It's not a anti-DeSantis position but rather an anti corrupt bloated federal government, which the GOP unfortunately is actively aiding.

It's a GOP down ballot problem. The top of the ticket is secondary.
You're playing this game of "if only DeSantis would do XXXX, I would absolutely vote for him!" The problem with the statement I bolded is it shows your bias.

You attribute the clear red of Florida to the D's more than you do DeSantis' leadership. DeSantis won Florida in 2018 with 49.6% of the vote and then won the 2022 with 59.4% of the vote. Republicans picked up 4 seats for the house in 2022. That absolutely shows his leadership and his aligning of the GOP in Florida, but you'd rather spin it as more of the D's doing. Clearly shows he didn't go at it alone.

There are many things DeSantis did that are actual actions against corruption, with the most important being fixing Florida's election system. That is the single greatest complaint Trump supporters have - corruption in the election system. Yet, the guy who actually fixed it in his state is cast aside.

You are saying you don't think one single man can alter the course of our corrupt bloated federal government, yet, the guy you think can take on our corrupt, bloated federal government has severed so much support from the people in positions of power he would need to help him accomplish that goal that he would in fact be going at it alone.
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911sAg
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In reply to BenFiasco14 • 2:21p, 1/16/24
BenFiasco14 said:
I just think it's mind boggling people think Trump has any shot of winning in 2024.


No one outside of Trump has a chance , you think Desantis has better chance he can't even sway gop voters

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IMnAg79
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2:24p, 1/16/24
Ron, thanks for participating
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Beat40
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In reply to aggiehawg • 2:24p, 1/16/24
aggiehawg said:
What is concerning to me about DeSantis is that he appeared to be more popular when many people did not know a lot about him. So much so, his well publicized announcement on twitter crashed their servers. People were open to him.

Then he does the full Grassley camping out in Iowa for months. Iowans got to see him up close and weigh his policies and positions. Yet, he couldn't sway them to his side when the time came to vote. For months he was bouncing around within the same few polling points. He did gain several points between the last poll and the final results yesterday, so that was progress. But was it enough for the donor class?
I do think the indictments had something to do with it. DeSantis and Trump were polling pretty close before the indictments.
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ttu_85
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In reply to Some Junkie Cosmonaut • 2:25p, 1/16/24
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ttu_85 said:
I'd perfer to think for myself. I dont care that he is not the greatest speaker or is 9' tall. I care about his policy and record. Not what Iowans think.

I do know DeSantis's main competition and I see a old, deeply troubled man that likes to have his boots licked. And cares only for himself as evident by leaving two GA Republican senator candidates without help in a run off that led to the rats taking the Senate in 2020. That is when I lifted the middle finger to that self-centered jackass

Some Junkie Cosmonaut said:


Neat.

I like RD too but none of that matters because he apparently can't even budge the needle much less move it.
What a terrible indictment of our country. We want our presidents to be entertainers. Bring on the clown suites.
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texagbeliever
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In reply to aggiehawg • 2:26p, 1/16/24
aggiehawg said:
What is concerning to me about DeSantis is that he appeared to be more popular when many people did not know a lot about him. So much so, his well publicized announcement on twitter crashed their servers. People were open to him.

Then he does the full Grassley camping out in Iowa for months. Iowans got to see him up close and weigh his policies and positions. Yet, he couldn't sway them to his side when the time came to vote. For months he was bouncing around within the same few polling points. He did gain several points between the last poll and the final results yesterday, so that was progress. But was it enough for the donor class?
DeSantis is a president for a different cultural position in America. I think that will come in 2028.

Trump is something different. DeSantis couldn't get MSM to attack him (ie give him attention). He did for a bit with Disney but then that got old. Trump is many things to many different people. DeSantis is one thing to everyone. That one thing is great, but it just isn't flexible enough to be appealing to broad people. People's imagination is what is to be captured and that is how you win. Elections. Markets. Etc.
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