CREAg87 said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Trump being at the top of the ballot also screws any republican hope of any sort down ballot win

---

My biggest concern about 2024 is exactly this- if down ballot candidates get decimated, we are in for some serious pain.

---

Well, I WILL vote down ballot for sure.

But, there are a lot of Not Trump voters that just won't go.

And even worse, NONE of them will donate to the GOP or Trump.

NYT doing the post-mortem on the DeSantis campaign.

Quote:

---

Across Iowa, polling showed that Mr. Trump led Mr. DeSantis with key demographics of the Republican electorate: older voters, those without college degrees and white evangelicals. That left Mr. DeSantis with no natural constituency that he could drive to the polls. As of 10 p.m., he was poised to lose every one of Iowa's 99 counties, each of which he visited at least once.

---

Quote:

---

The main super PAC supporting Ms. Haley spent $23.7 million in ads attacking Mr. DeSantis in Iowa. In the two weeks leading up to the Iowa caucuses, Ms. Haley's campaign outspent him on television in the state by nearly three to one, according to data collected by AdImpact.

---

Quote:

---

Heading into October, Mr. DeSantis had just $5 million available for the primary race, less than Ms. Haley ($9.1 million) and Mr. Trump ($36 million). In the week before the Iowa caucuses, he spent only $6,842 on ads in rural northwest Iowa, a stronghold of conservative Christians where he had hoped to peel voters away from Mr. Trump.

---

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/16/us/politics/desantis-second-iowa-caucus.html

Science Denier said:

---

This is not a troll post. I'd like a discussion on DeSantis. However, if it's deemed a troll post, just say so and I'll delete my post.

Should DeSantis have embraced Trump at the beginning? Trump was the most conservative POTUS in a long time, even more than Regan according to actual conservative research. DeSantis could have ridden that and been Trump's VP. Get his name out there as a serious national contender.

He could have learned how to appeal to the masses, run an efficient NATIONAL campaign and set himself up well for 2028. But his awful campaign cost him. His campaign was such a disaster, he was able to get the most popular politician to back him and still lose by an huge margins.

And his focus was Iowa. He put everything he had there. Went out prior to the caucus and "secured" backers.

And now that term limits put him out of Florida governor role, I'm not sure what his next step is. Maybe run for congress? Dude needs to do something to get back to relevance.

He had great potential. It's too bad what he did to himself. He just wasn't ready for a national campaign.

---

His campaign WAS a disaster. The common denominator was Ron DeSantis. He hired all of those people.

What makes you think that his poor judgement would improve 4 years from now?

Ag with kids said:

---

Tea Party said:

---

GAC06 said:

---

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

Some of you sound straight up giddy for trump to lose.

Sorry for your cold water splash tonight.

---

I'll get some enjoyment out of it. The Jonestown crew deserves it.

---

Wow. I guess any chance of a united GOP is dead if that is the mentality going forward…

Not classy or politically helpful to the conservative ideology. The same can be said for the name calling from the trump supporters.

---

You mean when we told you so you stuck your fingers in your ears and went LALALALALALA?

Sorry that you were told something and defiantly said I DON'T CARE and now you see that maybe you should have...

---

What are you talking about?

He said he will be giddy if the GOP loses the general if Trump is the nominee. That's not just bummed that Trump got the nominee but that's just straight up divisive unless he wants the GOP to continue the status quo which has failed the past several decades but makes us feel good that we are trying....

Which if he wants the GOP to continue the status quo, then unity will be incredibly hard because a lot of the voters voting the name Trump are sick and tired of the status quo.

I also never said I don't care.... You are painting with a broad brush and not listening to why a lot of people are voting Trump over DeSantis. It's not that Trump is better, but it's that the federal government is corrupt beyond saving by following the status quo methods (which DeSantis represents for now). Trump just happens to be the placeholder of the middle finger to said corruption. I hope DeSantis takes that title and well before the primary results make it too late, but he has not done enough to earn that title.

Thus there is near no unity if the DeSantis camp does not recognize the underlying reason WHY people are voting Trump. It's not about the person.

Ag with kids said:

---

Tea Party said:

---

GAC06 said:

---

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

Some of you sound straight up giddy for trump to lose.

Sorry for your cold water splash tonight.

---

I'll get some enjoyment out of it. The Jonestown crew deserves it.

---

Wow. I guess any chance of a united GOP is dead if that is the mentality going forward…

Not classy or politically helpful to the conservative ideology. The same can be said for the name calling from the trump supporters.

---

You mean when we told you so you stuck your fingers in your ears and went LALALALALALA?

Sorry that you were told something and defiantly said I DON'T CARE and now you see that maybe you should have...

---

Also, the same goes both ways.

Trump voters have said:
the federal government is corrupt.
elections are not trustworthy.
The GOP is drifting left and appears to be the submissive half of the uniparty (will undermine DeSantis)
We can't keep hoping a single leader can solve the D.C. problem (DeSantis can't do it alone, and MAGA knows Trump can't either).

And when we say things like this which explains our desire to disrupt the status quo, even if the GOP resists and loses relevancy, the DeSantis voters are defiantly saying I DON'T CARE and now you see that maybe you should have.....

BadMoonRisin said:

---

Science Denier said:

---

This is not a troll post. I'd like a discussion on DeSantis. However, if it's deemed a troll post, just say so and I'll delete my post.

Should DeSantis have embraced Trump at the beginning? Trump was the most conservative POTUS in a long time, even more than Regan according to actual conservative research. DeSantis could have ridden that and been Trump's VP. Get his name out there as a serious national contender.

He could have learned how to appeal to the masses, run an efficient NATIONAL campaign and set himself up well for 2028. But his awful campaign cost him. His campaign was such a disaster, he was able to get the most popular politician to back him and still lose by an huge margins.

And his focus was Iowa. He put everything he had there. Went out prior to the caucus and "secured" backers.

And now that term limits put him out of Florida governor role, I'm not sure what his next step is. Maybe run for congress? Dude needs to do something to get back to relevance.

He had great potential. It's too bad what he did to himself. He just wasn't ready for a national campaign.

---

His campaign WAS a disaster. The common denominator was Ron DeSantis. He hired all of those people.

What makes you think that his poor judgement would improve 4 years from now?

---

If he were VP, he would get 4 years of first hand exposure on how to actually win a national election. Plus, he'd have Trump's endorsement for taking over in 2028, which will be huge after Trump beats Biden and fixes the country once again.

Trump (if still alive) will endorse his son. I don't think you know how kings and emperors work. They don't endorse their chief of staff. They endorse their blood.

That's my dream scenario.

So your question is whether he threw his hat into the party prematurely?

Maybe. He absolutely crushed it with Covid.

Ag with kids said:

---

Tea Party said:

---

GAC06 said:

---

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

Some of you sound straight up giddy for trump to lose.

Sorry for your cold water splash tonight.

---

I'll get some enjoyment out of it. The Jonestown crew deserves it.

---

Wow. I guess any chance of a united GOP is dead if that is the mentality going forward…

Not classy or politically helpful to the conservative ideology. The same can be said for the name calling from the trump supporters.

---

You mean when we told you so you stuck your fingers in your ears and went LALALALALALA?

Sorry that you were told something and defiantly said I DON'T CARE and now you see that maybe you should have...

---

What were we "told"? That Trump can't get elected? And that's based on what? 2020? Trump is now stronger . Just look at exit poling in Iowa. And Biden is now weaker. Way weaker. No basis for that except TDS.

Or, were we "told" that some republicans won't vote for Trump because they love them some DeSantis?

So, thanks for admitting TDS is the reason some won't vote for Trump. Admission is the first step towards recovery.

I think we were "told" whatever you think we were "told". But, instead of I DON'T CARE, it's more like "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU.

shiftyandquick said:

---

Trump (if still alive) will endorse his son. I don't think you know how kings and emperors work. They don't endorse their chief of staff. They endorse their blood.

---

Yea, tha's it. The "King" narrative. Haven't heard that one yet. However, you should at least be consistent with your god, the MSM. The proper term for you guys to use is Dictator. Not King.

You folks should be consistent.

shiftyandquick said:

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Trump (if still alive) will endorse his son. I don't think you know how kings and emperors work. They don't endorse their chief of staff. They endorse their blood.

---

bobbranco said:

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Throw the towel in early.

That's the spirit.

---

It's just reality. Explain how it will be different. I'd love to hear it and believe there's a different way. But I don't see it.

BoydCrowder13 said:

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See Pence. Working for Trump does not benefit your political career.

Had he gone the sycophant VP route, there is a high likelihood he would be fully despised by Trump and MAGA by 2028.

---

Pence is was and always will be a loser.

"That's not my concern says everything you need to know about him"

Jeeper79 said:

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Claverack said:

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DeSantis will be fine. Extremely difficult to take on a POTUS who wants back in the White House.

Reagan ran twice before winning in 1980. I wouldn't bury DeSantis in 2024 because he is up against a powerful force in a former President who would be difficult for even the most experienced and charismatic Republicans to defeat.

He is a fantastic governor. He will be an excellent President and this experience will help him get there.

---

If trump names a successor and it's anyone but DeSantis, then DeSantis probably still doesn't have a chance. He's kind of like Cruz, here. He's peaked. He's popular to a certain segment, but he'll never be any more than he is right now.

---

His record in Florida is beyond comparison. He's a quick study and will have a better operation next time around.

He's not Cruz. He has actually accomplished things as Florida governor. As a Senator working under the sleepy leadership of McConnell, Cruz didn't have much chance to set policy. He still lacks that ability with the Vichy Republican from Kentucky still in charge.

DeSantis didn't win a single county in Iowa. Haley won one.

shiftyandquick said:

---

DeSantis didn't win a single county in Iowa. Haley won one.

---

By one vote.

shiftyandquick said:

---

DeSantis didn't win a single county in Iowa. Haley won one.

---

Funny enough, Haley's one county win was by a single vote.

Rapier108 said:

---

DeSantis was within single points of Trump.

Then the indictments started and Trump got a 20+ point bump overnight.

Democrats have done every thing possible to help Trump and played MAGA like a fiddle.

---

This is the closest DeSantis got.

That's a big assumption. I have a feeling Pence wants nothing to do with Trump and vice versa.

Still voting for Ron

shiftyandquick said:

---

NYT doing the post-mortem on the DeSantis campaign.

Quote:

---

Across Iowa, polling showed that Mr. Trump led Mr. DeSantis with key demographics of the Republican electorate: older voters, those without college degrees and white evangelicals. That left Mr. DeSantis with no natural constituency that he could drive to the polls. As of 10 p.m., he was poised to lose every one of Iowa's 99 counties, each of which he visited at least once.

---

Quote:

---

The main super PAC supporting Ms. Haley spent $23.7 million in ads attacking Mr. DeSantis in Iowa. In the two weeks leading up to the Iowa caucuses, Ms. Haley's campaign outspent him on television in the state by nearly three to one, according to data collected by AdImpact.

---

Quote:

---

Heading into October, Mr. DeSantis had just $5 million available for the primary race, less than Ms. Haley ($9.1 million) and Mr. Trump ($36 million). In the week before the Iowa caucuses, he spent only $6,842 on ads in rural northwest Iowa, a stronghold of conservative Christians where he had hoped to peel voters away from Mr. Trump.

---

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/16/us/politics/desantis-second-iowa-caucus.html

---

If you are RDS, where do you really go from here? They were all in on Iowa only to get the doors blown off by 30 points. NH is a non-starter and you're running 3rd in SC. The path to victory is simply not there.

The problem for Haley is that if RDS drops at this point, most of RDS voters move to Trump.

Marvin_Zindler said:

---

shiftyandquick said:

---

NYT doing the post-mortem on the DeSantis campaign.

Quote:

---

Across Iowa, polling showed that Mr. Trump led Mr. DeSantis with key demographics of the Republican electorate: older voters, those without college degrees and white evangelicals. That left Mr. DeSantis with no natural constituency that he could drive to the polls. As of 10 p.m., he was poised to lose every one of Iowa's 99 counties, each of which he visited at least once.

---

Quote:

---

The main super PAC supporting Ms. Haley spent $23.7 million in ads attacking Mr. DeSantis in Iowa. In the two weeks leading up to the Iowa caucuses, Ms. Haley's campaign outspent him on television in the state by nearly three to one, according to data collected by AdImpact.

---

Quote:

---

Heading into October, Mr. DeSantis had just $5 million available for the primary race, less than Ms. Haley ($9.1 million) and Mr. Trump ($36 million). In the week before the Iowa caucuses, he spent only $6,842 on ads in rural northwest Iowa, a stronghold of conservative Christians where he had hoped to peel voters away from Mr. Trump.

---

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/16/us/politics/desantis-second-iowa-caucus.html

---

If you are RDS, where do you really go from here? They were all in on Iowa only to get the doors blown off by 30 points. NH is a non-starter and you're running 3rd in SC. The path to victory is simply not there.

The problem for Haley is that if RDS drops at this point, most of RDS voters move to Trump.

---

Keep dominating Florida and laugh as the country burns

Marvin_Zindler said:

---

If you are RDS, where do you really go from here? They were all in on Iowa only to get the doors blown off by 30 points. NH is a non-starter and you're running 3rd in SC. The path to victory is simply not there.

The problem for Haley is that if RDS drops at this point, most of RDS voters move to Trump.

---

A lot of things could happen. For example, Trump could fall ill. Or die. Or have a scandal big enough to wipe him out (can't imagine what that would be, because even murder wouldn't be enough).

DeSantis tried to out-MAGA Trump and he got his tail kicked. He thought his Florida record as governor would be persuasive enough. It wasn't. He is New Coke.

Martin Q. Blank said:

---

Rapier108 said:

---

DeSantis was within single points of Trump.

Then the indictments started and Trump got a 20+ point bump overnight.

Democrats have done every thing possible to help Trump and played MAGA like a fiddle.

---

This is the closest DeSantis got.

---

he was only a decimal off.

shiftyandquick said:

---

Marvin_Zindler said:

---

If you are RDS, where do you really go from here? They were all in on Iowa only to get the doors blown off by 30 points. NH is a non-starter and you're running 3rd in SC. The path to victory is simply not there.

The problem for Haley is that if RDS drops at this point, most of RDS voters move to Trump.

---

A lot of things could happen. For example, Trump could fall ill. Or die. Or have a scandal big enough to wipe him out (can't imagine what that would be, because even murder wouldn't be enough).

DeSantis tried to out-MAGA Trump and he got his tail kicked. He thought his Florida record as governor would be persuasive enough. It wasn't. He is New Coke.

---

The fatal flaw for any candidate running vs trump is to try to out trump Trump.

Desantis didn't push his record in Florida nearly hard enough and didn't distinguish himself from Trump nearly enough.

That is a main reason haley has any traction at all. She's the only viable non Trumpish candidate there is.

Aggie4Life02 said:

---

DeSantis is the best conservative politician in 100 years but MAGA Republicans are too stupid to see it. They deserve everything they are going to get from the Biden Regime in the 2nd term.

---

You mean Obama's 4th term right?

Tea Party said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Tea Party said:

---

GAC06 said:

---

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

Some of you sound straight up giddy for trump to lose.

Sorry for your cold water splash tonight.

---

I'll get some enjoyment out of it. The Jonestown crew deserves it.

---

Wow. I guess any chance of a united GOP is dead if that is the mentality going forward…

Not classy or politically helpful to the conservative ideology. The same can be said for the name calling from the trump supporters.

---

You mean when we told you so you stuck your fingers in your ears and went LALALALALALA?

Sorry that you were told something and defiantly said I DON'T CARE and now you see that maybe you should have...

---

What are you talking about?

He said he will be giddy if the GOP loses the general if Trump is the nominee. That's not just bummed that Trump got the nominee but that's just straight up divisive unless he wants the GOP to continue the status quo which has failed the past several decades but makes us feel good that we are trying....

Which if he wants the GOP to continue the status quo, then unity will be incredibly hard because a lot of the voters voting the name Trump are sick and tired of the status quo.

I also never said I don't care.... You are painting with a broad brush and not listening to why a lot of people are voting Trump over DeSantis. It's not that Trump is better, but it's that the federal government is corrupt beyond saving by following the status quo methods (which DeSantis represents for now). Trump just happens to be the placeholder of the middle finger to said corruption. I hope DeSantis takes that title and well before the primary results make it too late, but he has not done enough to earn that title.

Thus there is near no unity if the DeSantis camp does not recognize the underlying reason WHY people are voting Trump. It's not about the person.

---

That's because many people are NOT "just bummed". They're pissed that Trump is the only choice they have yet again AFTER TELLING PEOPLE they wouldn't vote for him.

These are GOP voters (not like Bill Kristol who is chameleon) that WOULD vote GOP but NOT Trump.

Tea Party said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Tea Party said:

---

GAC06 said:

---

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

Some of you sound straight up giddy for trump to lose.

Sorry for your cold water splash tonight.

---

I'll get some enjoyment out of it. The Jonestown crew deserves it.

---

Wow. I guess any chance of a united GOP is dead if that is the mentality going forward…

Not classy or politically helpful to the conservative ideology. The same can be said for the name calling from the trump supporters.

---

You mean when we told you so you stuck your fingers in your ears and went LALALALALALA?

Sorry that you were told something and defiantly said I DON'T CARE and now you see that maybe you should have...

---

Also, the same goes both ways.

Trump voters have said:
the federal government is corrupt.
elections are not trustworthy.
The GOP is drifting left and appears to be the submissive half of the uniparty (will undermine DeSantis)
We can't keep hoping a single leader can solve the D.C. problem (DeSantis can't do it alone, and MAGA knows Trump can't either).

And when we say things like this which explains our desire to disrupt the status quo, even if the GOP resists and loses relevancy, the DeSantis voters are defiantly saying I DON'T CARE and now you see that maybe you should have.....

---

No. The Not Trump voters have said give them ANYONE they can want to vote for.

Trump not who they will choose. And many of them voted for him at least once if not twice. But the need of MAGA to have Trump outweighs the warnings.

And they'll be to blame in November.

Science Denier said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Tea Party said:

---

GAC06 said:

---

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

Some of you sound straight up giddy for trump to lose.

Sorry for your cold water splash tonight.

---

I'll get some enjoyment out of it. The Jonestown crew deserves it.

---

Wow. I guess any chance of a united GOP is dead if that is the mentality going forward…

Not classy or politically helpful to the conservative ideology. The same can be said for the name calling from the trump supporters.

---

You mean when we told you so you stuck your fingers in your ears and went LALALALALALA?

Sorry that you were told something and defiantly said I DON'T CARE and now you see that maybe you should have...

---

What were we "told"? That Trump can't get elected? And that's based on what? 2020? Trump is now stronger . Just look at exit poling in Iowa. And Biden is now weaker. Way weaker. No basis for that except TDS.

Or, were we "told" that some republicans won't vote for Trump because they love them some DeSantis?

So, thanks for admitting TDS is the reason some won't vote for Trump. Admission is the first step towards recovery.

I think we were "told" whatever you think we were "told". But, instead of I DON'T CARE, it's more like "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU.

---

Ok.

Just don't be on here crying about the election being stolen when you've already been told that many Republicans won't vote for him, Dems will rally around their hate for Trump, and the independents will blame Trump for Dobbs and abortion.

Ag with kids said:

---

These are GOP voters (not like Bill Kristol who is chameleon) that WOULD vote GOP but NOT Trump.

---

If it's Desantis, Cruz or Rand, I'll vote GOP as they're conservatives. Any of the libs like Trump or Haley, or "undefined" like Vivek, nope. I'm not a liberal, so why would I vote for one?

Ag with kids said:

---

Tea Party said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Tea Party said:

---

GAC06 said:

---

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

Some of you sound straight up giddy for trump to lose.

Sorry for your cold water splash tonight.

---

I'll get some enjoyment out of it. The Jonestown crew deserves it.

---

Wow. I guess any chance of a united GOP is dead if that is the mentality going forward…

Not classy or politically helpful to the conservative ideology. The same can be said for the name calling from the trump supporters.

---

You mean when we told you so you stuck your fingers in your ears and went LALALALALALA?

Sorry that you were told something and defiantly said I DON'T CARE and now you see that maybe you should have...

---

Also, the same goes both ways.

Trump voters have said:
the federal government is corrupt.
elections are not trustworthy.
The GOP is drifting left and appears to be the submissive half of the uniparty (will undermine DeSantis)
We can't keep hoping a single leader can solve the D.C. problem (DeSantis can't do it alone, and MAGA knows Trump can't either).

And when we say things like this which explains our desire to disrupt the status quo, even if the GOP resists and loses relevancy, the DeSantis voters are defiantly saying I DON'T CARE and now you see that maybe you should have.....

---

No. The Not Trump voters have said give them ANYONE they can want to vote for.

Trump not who they will choose. And many of them voted for him at least once if not twice. But the need of MAGA to have Trump outweighs the warnings.

And they'll be to blame in November.

---

Forgive me for the essay, but this conversation is going in circles because you are ignoring the most imporant reason people are voting for Trump and the longer it takes you and other people to understand it the harder it will be to win this election and preserve the GOP. Quit blaming people that vote for Trump and start understanding why they are voting that way AND why DeSantis does not fulfill that void.

The primary reason people are voting Trump (the placeholder, not the person) is because they have lost trust in the federal government and unelected beaurocrats. They have lost trust in the election process. They have lost trust in the GOP. They have lost trust that leftism and conservatism can coexist IF we have a large federal government instead of states rights.

DeSantis represents maintaining a big federal government, working within it for his term(s) for short term gains, but ultimately the corrupt system will still remain. We want the corrupt system fixed more than we want short term gains.

Trump certainly cannot achieve those goals because he's an old unpolished mentally degrading buffoon, but due to the establishment and corrupt government's attacks on him he unfortunately is that placeholder.

I've said countless times that the right can be united under DeSantis if he starts going after the corruption at the purple federal level, not just in red Florida. The right will only be united under Trump once people realize the GOP has been duping them for decades, thus forcing the GOP to be conservative which would make Trump no longer needed.

Your premise is flawed because Trump, the man himself, is a main reason people vote for him.

There's nothing that disputes that.

those feelings about the state of our govt exist and Trump has convinced people he is their victim hood personified.

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Your premise is flawed because Trump, the man himself, is a main reason people vote for him.

There's nothing that disputes that.

those feelings about the state of our govt exist and Trump has convinced people he is their victim hood personified.

---

Some people, yes.
A main reason, yes.
The main reson, I strongly disagree.

Agree to disagree. Let's just watch the GOP stay divided then and see how that fairs in the long run....

Tea Party said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Tea Party said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Tea Party said:

---

GAC06 said:

---

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

---

Some of you sound straight up giddy for trump to lose.

Sorry for your cold water splash tonight.

---

I'll get some enjoyment out of it. The Jonestown crew deserves it.

---

Wow. I guess any chance of a united GOP is dead if that is the mentality going forward…

Not classy or politically helpful to the conservative ideology. The same can be said for the name calling from the trump supporters.

---

You mean when we told you so you stuck your fingers in your ears and went LALALALALALA?

Sorry that you were told something and defiantly said I DON'T CARE and now you see that maybe you should have...

---

Also, the same goes both ways.

Trump voters have said:
the federal government is corrupt.
elections are not trustworthy.
The GOP is drifting left and appears to be the submissive half of the uniparty (will undermine DeSantis)
We can't keep hoping a single leader can solve the D.C. problem (DeSantis can't do it alone, and MAGA knows Trump can't either).

And when we say things like this which explains our desire to disrupt the status quo, even if the GOP resists and loses relevancy, the DeSantis voters are defiantly saying I DON'T CARE and now you see that maybe you should have.....

---

No. The Not Trump voters have said give them ANYONE they can want to vote for.

Trump not who they will choose. And many of them voted for him at least once if not twice. But the need of MAGA to have Trump outweighs the warnings.

And they'll be to blame in November.

---

Forgive me for the essay, but this conversation is going in circles because you are ignoring the most imporant reason people are voting for Trump and the longer it takes you and other people to understand it the harder it will be to win this election and preserve the GOP. Quit blaming people that vote for Trump and start understanding why they are voting that way AND why DeSantis does not fulfill that void.

The primary reason people are voting Trump (the placeholder, not the person) is because they have lost trust in the federal government and unelected beaurocrats. They have lost trust in the election process. They have lost trust in the GOP. They have lost trust that leftism and conservatism can coexist IF we have a large federal government instead of states rights.

DeSantis represents maintaining a big federal government, working within it for his term(s) for short term gains, but ultimately the corrupt system will still remain. We want the corrupt system fixed more than we want short term gains.

Trump certainly cannot achieve those goals because he's an old unpolished mentally degrading buffoon, but due to the establishment and corrupt government's attacks on him he unfortunately is that placeholder.

I've said countless times that the right can be united under DeSantis if he starts going after the corruption at the purple federal level, not just in red Florida. The right will only be united under Trump once people realize the GOP has been duping them for decades, thus forcing the GOP to be conservative which would make Trump no longer needed.

---

Unfortunately, for many of them he is NOT a placeholder, he is the tip of the spear (yeah, biblical reference in a nod to another thread). And they HAVE to vote for TRUMP. Not his ideals.

BTW, how can DeSantis "go after corruption at the purple federal level, not just in red Florida" UNLESS he gets into a FEDERAL job? You know, the one MAGA wants for Trump...

Tea Party said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

Your premise is flawed because Trump, the man himself, is a main reason people vote for him.

There's nothing that disputes that.

those feelings about the state of our govt exist and Trump has convinced people he is their victim hood personified.

---

Agree to disagree. Let's just watch the GOP stay divided then and see how that fairs in the long run....

---

Funny that the GOP has been divided since Trump jumped in but somehow it's everyone else's fault.