nortex97 said:

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I am curious if the UA Max9's involved also had IFE (WiFi) equipment installed separately, by AAR in OKC, or other BFE (buyer furnished equipment). Not trying to goal-tend for Boeing, just curious how that could be synced with what we know about the AS plane's maintenance history and the problems on it starting the day after it returned to service from OKC...

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That are going to find this out in a couple of weeks or less. They may not p publicly answer for longer.

evan_aggie said:

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nortex97 said:

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I am curious if the UA Max9's involved also had IFE (WiFi) equipment installed separately, by AAR in OKC, or other BFE (buyer furnished equipment). Not trying to goal-tend for Boeing, just curious how that could be synced with what we know about the AS plane's maintenance history and the problems on it starting the day after it returned to service from OKC...

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That are going to find this out in a couple of weeks or less. They may not p publicly answer for longer.

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Thx, that is believable. A lot of folks think planes are always delivered like when you get your new car, but a lot of the 'finishing touches' on the inside are often provided later by the airlines' contractors. Not always though. It's simpler often to have Boeing/Airbus install the Zodiac seats/coffee makers etc. than having someone else do it, but as anyone who has dealt with a contractor at the house knows, not all prices are for the same level of work/quality.

UAS Ag said:

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GAC06 said:

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Ban people that cry more than babies. Also ban people that cry about babies. Also ban people that want to ban people.

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I vote we just ban people.

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If they did fly empty, there would be a lower average death toll in the event of a crash.

one MEEN Ag said:

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The MCAS was required because the new engine designs required the engines to be placed higher and more forward. This requires a righting force (through wing trim) that wasn't necessary compared to previous designs. The MCAS is a complexity risk, but it could have been done so more robustly and with more than just a smidge of extra training.

MCAS shouldn't be relying on one single sensor to input fly-by-wire changes. They didn't have to go full 3+1 space shuttle style computer voting systems, but my gosh is there a large middle ground here.

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This is where Boeing screwed up. The A320 sat higher landing gear wise so they were able to retro fit the new leap engines on the neo.

Boeing should have raised the 737 but they opted moving the placement in order to fit the larger leap engines. They assumed a software fix would solve the 737 max's pitch issue when throttling up. Plane should have been redesigned, and people died in order to save a few bucks.

The new guy hired during covid didn't know to use nylocs.

nortex97 said:

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evan_aggie said:

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nortex97 said:

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I am curious if the UA Max9's involved also had IFE (WiFi) equipment installed separately, by AAR in OKC, or other BFE (buyer furnished equipment). Not trying to goal-tend for Boeing, just curious how that could be synced with what we know about the AS plane's maintenance history and the problems on it starting the day after it returned to service from OKC...

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That are going to find this out in a couple of weeks or less. They may not p publicly answer for longer.

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Thx, that is believable. A lot of folks think planes are always delivered like when you get your new car, but a lot of the 'finishing touches' on the inside are often provided later by the airlines' contractors. Not always though. It's simpler often to have Boeing/Airbus install the Zodiac seats/coffee makers etc. than having someone else do it, but as anyone who has dealt with a contractor at the house knows, not all prices are for the same level of work/quality.

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I'd never really thought about where 3rd party stuff was installed. I guess I would have said at Boeing, but I would have been wrong. Especially if anything or any of that work required penetration of the pressure bulkhead.

I believe the sat comm blisters are between this door location and the aft portion on the wings.

That AAR place in OKC where Alaska contracted out the WiFi installs has a few Google reviews from ex-employees that I'm surprised that hasn't been cleaned up yet.

Psycho Bunny said:

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Someone in the maintenance crew is going to be in big trouble.

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Could be anything from a damaged torque wrench to lock washers that are too expensive.

Threaded fasteners are not adequate when safety is involved. Hell, even Model T's used safety wire.

Kenneth_2003 said:

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nortex97 said:

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evan_aggie said:

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nortex97 said:

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I am curious if the UA Max9's involved also had IFE (WiFi) equipment installed separately, by AAR in OKC, or other BFE (buyer furnished equipment). Not trying to goal-tend for Boeing, just curious how that could be synced with what we know about the AS plane's maintenance history and the problems on it starting the day after it returned to service from OKC...

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That are going to find this out in a couple of weeks or less. They may not p publicly answer for longer.

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Thx, that is believable. A lot of folks think planes are always delivered like when you get your new car, but a lot of the 'finishing touches' on the inside are often provided later by the airlines' contractors. Not always though. It's simpler often to have Boeing/Airbus install the Zodiac seats/coffee makers etc. than having someone else do it, but as anyone who has dealt with a contractor at the house knows, not all prices are for the same level of work/quality.

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I'd never really thought about where 3rd party stuff was installed. I guess I would have said at Boeing, but I would have been wrong. Especially if anything or any of that work required penetration of the pressure bulkhead.

I believe the sat comm blisters are between this door location and the aft portion on the wings.

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It's actually all pretty complicated/convoluted. For instance, Delta buys a lot of their planes used/second hand, partly because they do all their own maintenance in house still and can take in planes and do the refitting/maintenance on them themselves. But after the United/Continental merger, even though the planes were painted alike, they had separate unionized crews manning them, different configurations, and separate rules/lists for seniority etc. So not every 737-900 at Delta may be operated/configured the same, even if it is a similar type, and interiors are also replaced as they age to make the plane 'feel' newer (and consistent) to customers.

Lots of airlines negotiate "bare" aircraft and negotiate engines, spare engines, APU's, tooling, training, buyer furnished equipment "BFE" like toilets, galleys, seats, floor mats etc. when ordering a fleet of 20 or more planes, then haggle with suppliers about said items separately, including installation locations/contractors. Typical lead time for BFE is 18-24 months, and Boeing/Airbus are generally out of delivery slots for 3+ years (they reserve some/have cancellations etc). Installation of larger items like galleys etc. (or WiFi systems requiring a lot of wiring/gear) is often best done through the exit doors/plugs. For cargo airlines like Fedex it can be even more complex, even for new builds (they famously had their own separate aftermarket cockpit/flight systems installed on 767's for instance, old thread, but accurate, net).

TexasRebel said:

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Psycho Bunny said:

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Someone in the maintenance crew is going to be in big trouble.

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Could be anything from a damaged torque wrench to lock washers that are too expensive.

Threaded fasteners are not adequate when safety is involved. Hell, even Model T's used safety wire.

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Yeah I'm wondering if those didn't have loctite spec's or some other locking mechanism, pin etc.

Quote:

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Possibly, AAR also does MRO work for United at their Rockford, IL, and Miami facilities. Since the plug doesn't have a normal door latching mechanism and appears to need to to be placed correctly via roller pins, skid pads, and bolts, and it has no pseu on the non-door option, any entity that opens and reseals it seems like they could potentially mistighten a bolt.

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Our man Juan Brown explaining how this dang plug is supposed to work.

If you want to open it, you remove the two bolts at the top, then the hinges have a spring assist to lift the plug about an inch so the stop fittings clear the stop guides, then it will roll it's on the hinges.

Cable ties keep the plug from fully opening like the full emergency exit only door.

AAR Corp has issued a press release confirming they did work on the aircraft, but nowhere near the exit door plugs.

Quote:

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AAR did not perform any work on or near any mid-cabin exit door plug of that specific aircraft. AAR was contracted by Alaska Airlines to perform a 2KU Modification (Wi-Fi modification) on the aircraft that was performed from November 27 to December 7, 2023.

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https://www.aarcorp.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2024/aar-issues-statement-on-january-5-2024-alaska-airlines-boeing-737-max-9-incident/

Bubblez said:

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AAR Corp has issued a press release confirming they did work on the aircraft, but nowhere near the exit door plugs.

Quote:

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AAR did not perform any work on or near any mid-cabin exit door plug of that specific aircraft. AAR was contracted by Alaska Airlines to perform a 2KU Modification (Wi-Fi modification) on the aircraft that was performed from November 27 to December 7, 2023.

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https://www.aarcorp.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2024/aar-issues-statement-on-january-5-2024-alaska-airlines-boeing-737-max-9-incident/

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Good for them but bad overall because that could have led to a quick ID of the problem.

JFABNRGR said:

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Bubblez said:

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AAR Corp has issued a press release confirming they did work on the aircraft, but nowhere near the exit door plugs.

Quote:

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AAR did not perform any work on or near any mid-cabin exit door plug of that specific aircraft. AAR was contracted by Alaska Airlines to perform a 2KU Modification (Wi-Fi modification) on the aircraft that was performed from November 27 to December 7, 2023.

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https://www.aarcorp.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2024/aar-issues-statement-on-january-5-2024-alaska-airlines-boeing-737-max-9-incident/

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Good for them but bad overall because that could have led to a quick ID of the problem.

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What's more concerning, in the article linked in one of the earlier tweets, United is saying they aren't seeing a pattern or consistency across the 5 defect airplanes they've identified.

Found an iPhone on the side of the road... Still in airplane mode with half a battery and open to a baggage claim for #AlaskaAirlines ASA1282 Survived a 16,000 foot drop perfectly in tact!

When I called it in, Zoe at @NTSB said it was the SECOND phone to be found. No door yet😅 pic.twitter.com/CObMikpuFd

— Seanathan Bates (@SeanSafyre) January 7, 2024

They've found some phones that got sucked out the plane.

The cockpit door apparently was designed to open up in a decompression event which it did, but none of the flight crew knew about it. Boeing is going to update some documentation.

Bubblez said:

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The cockpit door apparently was designed to open up in a decompression event which it did, but none of the flight crew knew about it. Boeing is going to update some documentation.

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Interesting, wonder if that was built in after the Malaysian flight disappeared

Bubblez said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Found an iPhone on the side of the road... Still in airplane mode with half a battery and open to a baggage claim for #AlaskaAirlines ASA1282 Survived a 16,000 foot drop perfectly in tact!

When I called it in, Zoe at @NTSB said it was the SECOND phone to be found. No door yet😅 pic.twitter.com/CObMikpuFd

— Seanathan Bates (@SeanSafyre) January 7, 2024

They've found some phones that got sucked out the plane.

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Who the heck doesn't have a lock code enabled on their phone?

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and how in the hell is a cell found next to a road undamaged when dropped from 16,000 feet and likely at 500knots, when I can't find my youngest's drone that her older sister lost when the search area is only like 5000SF.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Found an iPhone on the side of the road... Still in airplane mode with half a battery and open to a baggage claim for #AlaskaAirlines ASA1282 Survived a 16,000 foot drop perfectly in tact!

When I called it in, Zoe at @NTSB said it was the SECOND phone to be found. No door yet😅 pic.twitter.com/CObMikpuFd

— Seanathan Bates (@SeanSafyre) January 7, 2024

They've found some phones that got sucked out the plane.

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if you click on that first photo to enlarge it, you can see that the phone was on the charger when it was ripped out of the plane, the usb plug is still in, with the cable ripped off.

We can't people understand it's "intact," not "in tact."

TexasAggie_02 said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Found an iPhone on the side of the road... Still in airplane mode with half a battery and open to a baggage claim for #AlaskaAirlines ASA1282 Survived a 16,000 foot drop perfectly in tact!

When I called it in, Zoe at @NTSB said it was the SECOND phone to be found. No door yet😅 pic.twitter.com/CObMikpuFd

— Seanathan Bates (@SeanSafyre) January 7, 2024

They've found some phones that got sucked out the plane.

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if you click on that first photo to enlarge it, you can see that the phone was on the charger when it was ripped out of the plane, the usb plug is still in, with the cable ripped off.

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How is it still unlocked?

Bubblez said:

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The cockpit door apparently was designed to open up in a decompression event which it did, but none of the flight crew knew about it. Boeing is going to update some documentation.

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Hopefully terrorists don't know that. Could make it an easy way to access the cockpit when they intend on crashing the plane anyway.

23-years after 911 and we still struggling with cockpit doors.

cryption said:

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Bubblez said:

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The cockpit door apparently was designed to open up in a decompression event which it did, but none of the flight crew knew about it. Boeing is going to update some documentation.

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Hopefully terrorists don't know that. Could make it an easy way to access the cockpit when they intend on crashing the plane anyway.

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If terrorists manage to decompress a plane we've probably already lost the flight

The cockpit door opening automatically in response to a depressurization event is likely done so the pressure in the aircraft equalizes as quickly as possible.

Create enough pressure difference between the cockpit and the rest of the aircraft and that door could go flying backward and do serious harm to anyone it hits.