Dating disparities between high value men and average men not sustainable
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237 Replies |
Last: 11 mo ago by ArmyAg2002
This is actually a good thing.
You must become the person you wish to attract.
It is that simple.
You must become the person you wish to attract.
It is that simple.
"I am neither an Athenian nor a Greek, but a citizen of the world"-Plato, attributed to Socrates, Theaetetus-
I do feel sorry for guys that fall into the incel definition. I'd imagine that life is majorly depressing to feel that isolated and different. Their social skills lack, which often makes up for a lack of good looks. Women tend to love having someone that they can flaunt in front of their friends (Chad), but they also need Chad to be something he can't be, which is really truly into being with them. Hence, they try their best to latch on, but it isn't gonna happen.
What I think is completely wrong with the culture is what manifests the incel in the first place. The hookup culture. Sleeping with someone just for the sake of it is as flawed as it's ever been, but now, more women think it's the way to go, too. Yet another reason why the Bible was right to say sex in marriage is holy and sanctified. Even if you aren't religious, it's still a great model to go by. And if you really think about it clearly, the best women you've known are usually the good girls that are church going. The good girl is the one that the bad guys and good guys go after, while the bad girl is really only attractive to bad guys, i.e., Chad. So, in closing, go to church, guys. Get yourself right with God. Learn how to be a great man. And expect God to bless you with someone who will be a great fit. Trust me, this was me, some 30 years ago. And it worked. It still works.
What I think is completely wrong with the culture is what manifests the incel in the first place. The hookup culture. Sleeping with someone just for the sake of it is as flawed as it's ever been, but now, more women think it's the way to go, too. Yet another reason why the Bible was right to say sex in marriage is holy and sanctified. Even if you aren't religious, it's still a great model to go by. And if you really think about it clearly, the best women you've known are usually the good girls that are church going. The good girl is the one that the bad guys and good guys go after, while the bad girl is really only attractive to bad guys, i.e., Chad. So, in closing, go to church, guys. Get yourself right with God. Learn how to be a great man. And expect God to bless you with someone who will be a great fit. Trust me, this was me, some 30 years ago. And it worked. It still works.
Hoyt Ag said:
Curious how many posters so far are married folks commenting on the dating scene in the USA.
Doesn't mean they aren't on dating apps.
I got divorced and started dating again in my early 30s. Holy hell was it eye opening, but a ****ing blast.
I'll never forget having 10 straight days of dates lined up with a new gal each time. Did it once but exhausting.
It was a necessary experience to realize how much I enjoyed my wife's company (got married again!) and loved her.
Despite what many think, many dating apps are just fine and you will meet lots of normal people. Most women are looking for someone who can plan activities and make decisions for them and have a stable career.
I'll never forget having 10 straight days of dates lined up with a new gal each time. Did it once but exhausting.
It was a necessary experience to realize how much I enjoyed my wife's company (got married again!) and loved her.
Despite what many think, many dating apps are just fine and you will meet lots of normal people. Most women are looking for someone who can plan activities and make decisions for them and have a stable career.
Do you also need to be able to spell correctly?
There is no way any sanctimonious F16 posters would EVER cheat on their wives or gfs.torrid said:Hoyt Ag said:
Curious how many posters so far are married folks commenting on the dating scene in the USA.
Doesn't mean they aren't on dating apps.
This is all bs.JWinTX said:
I do feel sorry for guys that fall into the incel definition. I'd imagine that life is majorly depressing to feel that isolated and different. Their social skills lack, which often makes up for a lack of good looks. Women tend to love having someone that they can flaunt in front of their friends (Chad), but they also need Chad to be something he can't be, which is really truly into being with them. Hence, they try their best to latch on, but it isn't gonna happen.
What I think is completely wrong with the culture is what manifests the incel in the first place. The hookup culture. Sleeping with someone just for the sake of it is as flawed as it's ever been, but now, more women think it's the way to go, too. Yet another reason why the Bible was right to say sex in marriage is holy and sanctified. Even if you aren't religious, it's still a great model to go by. And if you really think about it clearly, the best women you've known are usually the good girls that are church going. The good girl is the one that the bad guys and good guys go after, while the bad girl is really only attractive to bad guys, i.e., Chad. So, in closing, go to church, guys. Get yourself right with God. Learn how to be a great man. And expect God to bless you with someone who will be a great fit. Trust me, this was me, some 30 years ago. And it worked. It still works.
Be the person you want to attract. You dont need God or the church to do that.
If you want a *****, be a *****. If you want someone selective, be selective.
If you want someone physically attractive, be physically attractive.
A good dose of epicureanism combined with SECULAR Judaism is all you need to live a good life.
"I am neither an Athenian nor a Greek, but a citizen of the world"-Plato, attributed to Socrates, Theaetetus-
Bill Clinternet said:
This is actually a good thing.
You must become the person you wish to attract.
It is that simple.
Please use ChatGPT for your responses. It's much better.
Pookers said:Looks about right.Rapier108 said:
Below the "fun zone" I think the husband line slopes negative to the right. Uglier with more money, it's not a vertical line.
This was my experience on dating apps. I met several successful, grounded good women that wanted the same in a man.evan_aggie said:
I got divorced and started dating again in my early 30s. Holy hell was it eye opening, but a ****ing blast.
I'll never forget having 10 straight days of dates lined up with a new gal each time. Did it once but exhausting.
It was a necessary experience to realize how much I enjoyed my wife's company (got married again!) and loved her.
Despite what many think, many dating apps are just fine and you will meet lots of normal people. Most women are looking for someone who can plan activities and make decisions for them and have a stable career.
Unfortunately very few people here represent the reality of most men. I suspect most of the people on this forum are top 10% income to way above that, most probably aren't fat (if they are right wing), and generally well rounded people. Going through this thread, it's pretty obvious no one on this thread represents the average dude making a median income who is of average looks and height.
You cannot build or maintain a society in which the top has the pick of anyone while the average get nothing. The end result is societal collapse. Just look at North East Asian countries and their replacement rates that are in absolute free fall. Hypergamy is rampant and far worse there than here. Thanks to this and terrible working cultures along with urban environments, no one want to even bother with marriage there, much less kids.
If you want society to be successful you create a scenario like we had in the post WWII boom to the 1960s where everyone mostly can work good jobs and find a spouse. Hell even before that, most men had the opportunity to find a woman.
People using themselves as an anecdote against this is funny because they clearly don't realize this entire forum represents men almost solely in the top 10%. Yes it is easier for us, but that's not what this thread is about. Think about the dude working a dead end job as night manger of a department store. You think this man has any luck? You think the 35 year old gas station worker finds any success?
We don't represent reality, stop using yourself or this forum as an example and open your eyes. What do you think will happen when a large portion of men give up?
You cannot build or maintain a society in which the top has the pick of anyone while the average get nothing. The end result is societal collapse. Just look at North East Asian countries and their replacement rates that are in absolute free fall. Hypergamy is rampant and far worse there than here. Thanks to this and terrible working cultures along with urban environments, no one want to even bother with marriage there, much less kids.
If you want society to be successful you create a scenario like we had in the post WWII boom to the 1960s where everyone mostly can work good jobs and find a spouse. Hell even before that, most men had the opportunity to find a woman.
People using themselves as an anecdote against this is funny because they clearly don't realize this entire forum represents men almost solely in the top 10%. Yes it is easier for us, but that's not what this thread is about. Think about the dude working a dead end job as night manger of a department store. You think this man has any luck? You think the 35 year old gas station worker finds any success?
We don't represent reality, stop using yourself or this forum as an example and open your eyes. What do you think will happen when a large portion of men give up?
Today's generation of "men" (using that term VERY loosely) voluntarily ceded all of the leverage and power in dating to women. Then they cry and complain that women are now yielding said power against them. You want things to change? Take back the power! Stop being effeminate, pasty pansies and start acting like men. Take the time to do some self reflection and clean yourself up. Put down the effing video game controller and go to the gym. Quit dressing like a bum in your Star Wars t-shirt and have some self-pride. You guys sound like the pathetic young people that want to blame boomers for all of their failures instead of accepting responsibility for your own pathetic-ness. I don't like overweight, slob women who dress like vagrants, so why should I expect a woman to want the same in a man?
Women (girls) post ridiculous criteria for someone they would even take the time to know. Just flip the script. If your boobs would get a passing grade, buy your own coffee.
It's been years since I was on Tinder, but that sounds about right. Getting "matches" was easy...most of them were bots, men, prank profiles, and so on.Pookers said:
I doubt 192 matches per year is average for the average guy.
Dating amongst young people is just fine. The guys that were getting dates 50 years ago are still getting dates now.
Some of the guys that weren't getting dates 50 years ago now are (being a nerd is no longer taboo).
And many of the guys that weren't getting dates 50 years ago still aren't now -- they are just blogging and posting research about it a lot more to show "it's the system!" rather than their own lack of game.
Now are a higher percentage of women going to find themselves in their mid to late 30's without a mate due to grossly unrealistic standards? Sure. And the more that happens, the more things re-calibrate.
Trying to frame an entire dating generation because of "what the apps say" is missing that there's plenty of people still going out and meeting/dating without the apps. Apps are for lazy people (or those who convince themselves they just don't have the time).
"Back in my day" single people would have to put in the work to find dates. Either you did so by staying busy in social activities you love, or you did so by hitting the bar scene constantly. People back then would call the bar scene a grind because, yeah, sometimes you got really sick of having to go out 3-4 nights a week to try and meet someone new.
So people got lazy and started using an app and they are shocked that the app spits out results that are going to favor those who look better on the app.
Some of the guys that weren't getting dates 50 years ago now are (being a nerd is no longer taboo).
And many of the guys that weren't getting dates 50 years ago still aren't now -- they are just blogging and posting research about it a lot more to show "it's the system!" rather than their own lack of game.
Now are a higher percentage of women going to find themselves in their mid to late 30's without a mate due to grossly unrealistic standards? Sure. And the more that happens, the more things re-calibrate.
Trying to frame an entire dating generation because of "what the apps say" is missing that there's plenty of people still going out and meeting/dating without the apps. Apps are for lazy people (or those who convince themselves they just don't have the time).
"Back in my day" single people would have to put in the work to find dates. Either you did so by staying busy in social activities you love, or you did so by hitting the bar scene constantly. People back then would call the bar scene a grind because, yeah, sometimes you got really sick of having to go out 3-4 nights a week to try and meet someone new.
So people got lazy and started using an app and they are shocked that the app spits out results that are going to favor those who look better on the app.
Bill Clinternet said:This is all bs.JWinTX said:
I do feel sorry for guys that fall into the incel definition. I'd imagine that life is majorly depressing to feel that isolated and different. Their social skills lack, which often makes up for a lack of good looks. Women tend to love having someone that they can flaunt in front of their friends (Chad), but they also need Chad to be something he can't be, which is really truly into being with them. Hence, they try their best to latch on, but it isn't gonna happen.
What I think is completely wrong with the culture is what manifests the incel in the first place. The hookup culture. Sleeping with someone just for the sake of it is as flawed as it's ever been, but now, more women think it's the way to go, too. Yet another reason why the Bible was right to say sex in marriage is holy and sanctified. Even if you aren't religious, it's still a great model to go by. And if you really think about it clearly, the best women you've known are usually the good girls that are church going. The good girl is the one that the bad guys and good guys go after, while the bad girl is really only attractive to bad guys, i.e., Chad. So, in closing, go to church, guys. Get yourself right with God. Learn how to be a great man. And expect God to bless you with someone who will be a great fit. Trust me, this was me, some 30 years ago. And it worked. It still works.
Be the person you want to attract. You dont need God or the church to do that.
If you want a *****, be a *****. If you want someone selective, be selective.
If you want someone physically attractive, be physically attractive.
A good dose of epicureanism combined with SECULAR Judaism is all you need to live a good life.
Username checks out
FFS, all I've said on this thread is that I SEE plenty of average guys in bars doing great with women that are pretty good looking. Perhaps since I'm in my 50's and go to bars that aren't full of young people it's different. But even walking around I see plenty of average Joes (4-6) with women that are at least average looking (5-7).Quote:
We don't represent reality, stop using yourself or this forum as an example and open your eyes. What do you think will happen when a large portion of men give up?
You make it seem like the majority of women are just waiting around until it's their turn to screw some hot guy and hopefully "land" him. That's not what I'm seeing. Not remotely.
Proposition Joe said:
Dating amongst young people is just fine. The guys that were getting dates 50 years ago are still getting dates now.
Some of the guys that weren't getting dates 50 years ago now are (being a nerd is no longer taboo).
And many of the guys that weren't getting dates 50 years ago still aren't now -- they are just blogging and posting research about it a lot more to show "it's the system!" rather than their own lack of game.
Now are a higher percentage of women going to find themselves in their mid to late 30's without a mate due to grossly unrealistic standards? Sure. And the more that happens, the more things re-calibrate.
There are artifical forces making things as they are. These things will not recalibrate anymore than inflation to our dollars will as the Fed keeps printing.
Your argument that "everything works out" is naive and overly simplified.
AggieKeith15 said:Proposition Joe said:
Dating amongst young people is just fine. The guys that were getting dates 50 years ago are still getting dates now.
Some of the guys that weren't getting dates 50 years ago now are (being a nerd is no longer taboo).
And many of the guys that weren't getting dates 50 years ago still aren't now -- they are just blogging and posting research about it a lot more to show "it's the system!" rather than their own lack of game.
Now are a higher percentage of women going to find themselves in their mid to late 30's without a mate due to grossly unrealistic standards? Sure. And the more that happens, the more things re-calibrate.
There are artifical forces making things as they are. These things will not recalibrate anymore than inflation to our dollars will as the Fed keeps printing.
Your argument that "everything works out" is naive and overly simplified.
If you think things won't recalibrate and women won't find themselves realizing they need to settle for lower standards, then you don't understand biological clocks.
As plenty of posters have said -- there's plenty of people hooking up at bars. There's plenty of people hooking up at tailgates. There's plenty of people hooking up at parties.
A lot of them ugly. A lot of them outkicking their coverage.
It takes effort though. And a lot of people these days are just really, really lazy.
or become a high value man and problem solved
it's not just about being six foot five, it's also about being highly educated, urbane, witty, wealthy and successful in your personal and private life.
Mark Zuckerburg 5 foot 7 inches
Jeff Bezos 5 foot 7 inches
it's not just about being six foot five, it's also about being highly educated, urbane, witty, wealthy and successful in your personal and private life.
Mark Zuckerburg 5 foot 7 inches
Jeff Bezos 5 foot 7 inches
93MarineHorn said:FFS, all I've said on this thread is that I SEE plenty of average guys in bars doing great with women that are pretty good looking. Perhaps since I'm in my 50's and go to bars that aren't full of young people it's different. But even walking around I see plenty of average Joes (4-6) with women that are at least average looking (5-7).Quote:
We don't represent reality, stop using yourself or this forum as an example and open your eyes. What do you think will happen when a large portion of men give up?
You make it seem like the majority of women are just waiting around until it's their turn to screw some hot guy and hopefully "land" him. That's not what I'm seeing. Not remotely.
My counterpoint to much of what is being suggested on here is that you have to go to a bar to meet women. I would argue that very few young men and women go to bars. And that those who go to bars are highly active in the dating market.
And on the flip side, the every day approach is not acceptable for the most part like it once used to be (work, at grocery store, etc.). Those are environments where men, unless very attractive/skilled, are way less likely to succeed in the current social media and feminist era.
Proposition Joe said:AggieKeith15 said:Proposition Joe said:
Dating amongst young people is just fine. The guys that were getting dates 50 years ago are still getting dates now.
Some of the guys that weren't getting dates 50 years ago now are (being a nerd is no longer taboo).
And many of the guys that weren't getting dates 50 years ago still aren't now -- they are just blogging and posting research about it a lot more to show "it's the system!" rather than their own lack of game.
Now are a higher percentage of women going to find themselves in their mid to late 30's without a mate due to grossly unrealistic standards? Sure. And the more that happens, the more things re-calibrate.
There are artifical forces making things as they are. These things will not recalibrate anymore than inflation to our dollars will as the Fed keeps printing.
Your argument that "everything works out" is naive and overly simplified.
If you think things won't recalibrate and women won't find themselves realizing they need to settle for lower standards, then you don't understand biological clocks.
As plenty of posters have said -- there's plenty of people hooking up at bars. There's plenty of people hooking up at tailgates. There's plenty of people hooking up at parties.
A lot of them ugly. A lot of them outkicking their coverage.
It takes effort though. And a lot of people these days are just really, really lazy.
You say it is lazy. I would argue men are greatly disincentivized. They are being replaced by government/child support, abortion, a society that doesn't respect them, and the removal of culture norms that require vetting for long term partners.
AggieKeith15 said:93MarineHorn said:FFS, all I've said on this thread is that I SEE plenty of average guys in bars doing great with women that are pretty good looking. Perhaps since I'm in my 50's and go to bars that aren't full of young people it's different. But even walking around I see plenty of average Joes (4-6) with women that are at least average looking (5-7).Quote:
We don't represent reality, stop using yourself or this forum as an example and open your eyes. What do you think will happen when a large portion of men give up?
You make it seem like the majority of women are just waiting around until it's their turn to screw some hot guy and hopefully "land" him. That's not what I'm seeing. Not remotely.
My counterpoint to much of what is being suggested on here is that you have to go to a bar to meet women. I would argue that very few young men and women go to bars. And that those who go to bars are highly active in the dating market.
And on the flip side, the every day approach is not acceptable for the most part like it once used to be (work, at grocery store, etc.). Those are environments where men, unless very attractive/skilled, are way less likely to succeed in the current social media and feminist era.
It's almost like you have to make an effort.
What we have is a bunch of un-attractive guys who don't really want to make an effort complaining.
That being said, there's still guys picking up girls from work. And there's still guys picking up girls in the grocery store.
It's not the current social media and feminist era that is keeping that from happening for guys now any more than it was 30 years ago. It's that they simply weren't good looking enough then and still aren't now.
That's it. Times haven't changed that much. The ugly guy sending flowers to the girl from work is a creep. The hot guy sending flowers to the girl from work is a sweetheart.
Zuckerberg and Bezos are at the outer .0001 percent of net worth individuals, and not really indicative of 'dating app' demographics I believe. I also don't think either are witty, but ymmv.LMCane said:
or become a high value man and problem solved
it's not just about being six foot five, it's also about being highly educated, urbane, witty, wealthy and successful in your personal and private life.
Mark Zuckerburg 5 foot 7 inches
Jeff Bezos 5 foot 7 inches
You guys need to check out hoe_math on youtube. (Maybe on tiktok too but I don't use tiktok.) He is great at explaining why the OP is correct - 10% of guys get 90% of girls.
His channel blew up and he was posting multiple times a day - hasn't posted anything in a couple weeks so I hope he didn't get burned out.
In the meantime checkout this video as somewhat of a starting point.
His channel blew up and he was posting multiple times a day - hasn't posted anything in a couple weeks so I hope he didn't get burned out.
In the meantime checkout this video as somewhat of a starting point.
Bill Clinternet said:
A good dose of epicureanism combined with SECULAR Judaism is all you need to live a good life.
Secular Judaism is an oxymoron imo (or just a horrible concept), and epicureanism is nothing more than an attempt to alleviate symptoms of living & leads to an unfulfilled life at the end.
If you're bored you can always take a vacay to the west bank, and let people know that Secular islam is the answer they've been looking for, and epicureanism will satisfy their desires...the problem is that their desires often include behaving like a pirate from the 16-1700's A.D. soooo that could backfire.
Proposition Joe said:
Dating amongst young people is just fine. The guys that were getting dates 50 years ago are still getting dates now.
Some of the guys that weren't getting dates 50 years ago now are (being a nerd is no longer taboo).
And many of the guys that weren't getting dates 50 years ago still aren't now -- they are just blogging and posting research about it a lot more to show "it's the system!" rather than their own lack of game.
Now are a higher percentage of women going to find themselves in their mid to late 30's without a mate due to grossly unrealistic standards? Sure. And the more that happens, the more things re-calibrate.
Trying to frame an entire dating generation because of "what the apps say" is missing that there's plenty of people still going out and meeting/dating without the apps. Apps are for lazy people (or those who convince themselves they just don't have the time).
"Back in my day" single people would have to put in the work to find dates. Either you did so by staying busy in social activities you love, or you did so by hitting the bar scene constantly. People back then would call the bar scene a grind because, yeah, sometimes you got really sick of having to go out 3-4 nights a week to try and meet someone new.
So people got lazy and started using an app and they are shocked that the app spits out results that are going to favor those who look better on the app.
See Japan, South Korea, and China. Their total fertility rates are in free fall from primarily this very issue. They will not recover from this.
The only person who seems completely out of touch is you.
35 year old gas station workers have girlfriends and wives. Special needs adults have girlfriends and wives. Thugs on the streets have girlfriends and wives. Hell, even homeless people are hooking up.
Like, you really don't seem to operate in the real world at all. And you also seem to have a disturbingly low opinion of women's ability to successfully mate select.
I'm not saying this isn't impacting some segment of the population, but hundreds of millions of people, including those in their early 20's, are still finding partners the old fashion way. I see it all the time.
35 year old gas station workers have girlfriends and wives. Special needs adults have girlfriends and wives. Thugs on the streets have girlfriends and wives. Hell, even homeless people are hooking up.
Like, you really don't seem to operate in the real world at all. And you also seem to have a disturbingly low opinion of women's ability to successfully mate select.
I'm not saying this isn't impacting some segment of the population, but hundreds of millions of people, including those in their early 20's, are still finding partners the old fashion way. I see it all the time.
LMCane said:
or become a high value man and problem solved
it's not just about being six foot five, it's also about being highly educated, urbane, witty, wealthy and successful in your personal and private life.
Mark Zuckerburg 5 foot 7 inches
Jeff Bezos 5 foot 7 inches
Just become a billionaire, it's as easy as that!
Completely false. Those countries fertility rates were plummeting decades before smart phones existed.
That's a much more complicated ball of wax.
That's a much more complicated ball of wax.
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AG
LMCane said:
or become a high value man and problem solved
it's not just about being six foot five, it's also about being highly educated, urbane, witty, wealthy and successful in your personal and private life.
Mark Zuckerburg 5 foot 7 inches
Jeff Bezos 5 foot 7 inches
Time to place your bets.
What are the odds for LMCane at exactly 5 foot 7 inches?
93MarineHorn said:FFS, all I've said on this thread is that I SEE plenty of average guys in bars doing great with women that are pretty good looking. Perhaps since I'm in my 50's and go to bars that aren't full of young people it's different. But even walking around I see plenty of average Joes (4-6) with women that are at least average looking (5-7).Quote:
We don't represent reality, stop using yourself or this forum as an example and open your eyes. What do you think will happen when a large portion of men give up?
You make it seem like the majority of women are just waiting around until it's their turn to screw some hot guy and hopefully "land" him. That's not what I'm seeing. Not remotely.
You are not likely interacting with average men or women. Do you live in a suburb? If so then your point of view is already skewed heavily.
The people with disposable income who can afford to go to a bar do not represent the average. Have you see how much people are struggling with money right now? In what world do you think someone who makes the media or lower income would have enough money to go to a bar regularly to pick up women? The people you are seeing are top 10% most likely because they can afford to spend money on drinks all the time and still have enough to eat and pay rent.
The average person can't do these things and there is no real area where they can meet women anymore outside of the internet. Why do you think farmers have the high suicide rate in the world now? They can't leave the farm and have no options for meeting women. Since farmers don't usually make a lot of money and women don't view them as higher status, they are SOL.
Silent For Too Long said:
Completely false. Those countries fertility rates were plummeting decades before smart phones existed.
That's a much more complicated ball of wax.
Hypergamy was an issue there well before smart phones too.
Good looking ****ty dudes and ****ty girls (good looking or not) playing a game of musical dicks is not excluding average guys from finding a girl that is both attractive and not a *****. Go look at wedding announcements and see how many fugly people are settling down with other fugly, or non-fugly people (meaning attractiveness is not the sole decider). The good looking guy has optionality and the ability to scattershoot and seek only sex, and some proportion women will gladly or reluctantly play that game. Some proportion of average or below average men believe that they should be able to participate in the game of musical dicks, so they act like they can, but they cannot and become resentful that they can't. That's life. That doesn't mean an average guy can't find someone that will allow them to play hide the pickle, it's just not going to be a different hiding place every night and hiding the pickle in a different hiding place every night is not an avenue to happiness.
This is a bad thing for guys that want to play musical dicks. It is not bad for guys that have no interest in doing that as they are experiencing a filtering process of ****ty girls and girls that are willing to objectify themselves in an effort to land a man that has no interest in them long term.
This is a bad thing for guys that want to play musical dicks. It is not bad for guys that have no interest in doing that as they are experiencing a filtering process of ****ty girls and girls that are willing to objectify themselves in an effort to land a man that has no interest in them long term.
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