You're assuming the average voter gets their news from main stream media. That's no longer the case.

Teslag said:

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FireAg said:

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Teslag said:

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No, testicular fortitude is required to pass the bill and then stand up to the lunatic, spend-like-drunken-sailor moderates and liberals when they cry about it...

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The Democrats excel at the long game. And with the entire media in their back pocket, and a public cut off from federal services, a military not getting paid, for a year under this fantasy "shut it all down till we get 100% of what we want" the Democrats would happily sit back and take the 2024 blue wave to complete and absolute power you hand them on a silver platter.

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At some point you have to break the cycle...

Continuing to cave in and kick the responsibility can down the road doesn't work...we've been doing it for decades...the debt is now $33T and counting...inflation is moving a "ludicrous speed" and President Skroob doesn't know what planet he's on...

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But you won't break a cycle. You will simply delay 18 months until the cycle goes into overdrive with full democratic control. And it will never be reversed once they pass election laws they want.

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Then the battle is already lost...

Your approach delays the inevitable, while (by your argument) my approach simply bites the bullet now...

In the end, the results will be the same, no matter what...

At some point we have to fight, even if it means going down with the ship sooner rather than later...

jt2hunt said:

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You're assuming the average voter gets their news from main stream media. That's no longer the case.

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The ones that don't care about politics do. They simply get on their smartphone see what populates under news from Google, TikTok, and YouTube and that's what they roll with. They won't dig deeper. They won't seek out OAN or Newsmax, or anything else.

He's speaking out of selfishness as he grifts off of the military entitlements.

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Your approach delays the inevitable, while (by your argument) my approach simply bites the bullet now...

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My approach, which is tactical decision making, sets up a chance to at least take the presidency, increase the house margin, and take the senate. Which creates a path to enable legislation more closely to what we want, and can get.

Yours doens't. It's simply burning down the house and letting the democrats rebuild it in whatever image they desire.

Hungry Ojos said:

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He's speaking out of selfishness as he grifts off of the military entitlements.

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And I will get those no matter who is in charge. No one is cutting it and it pays through a shut down. My view is based on the reality of the world and current makeup of the government and the constraints you face.

Malibu said:

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Tea Party said:

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Malibu said:

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So your theory is that the Senate Dems and the White House are going to raise the white flag, roll over, and agree to your demands due to an angry nation and MSM that is dutifully taking your Republican message that the Democrats are to blame? Let us know how that works out for you.

In 42 days you'll have another continuing resolution to fund what Congress has already passed and Ukraine will get more weapons from America. I am Nostradamus.

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You are not Nostradamus, you are simply the tool the uni-party establishment uses to get their way yet you foolishly think you are winning all the while America burns around you.

Congrats I guess?

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I live on planet Earth and can recognize what is politically possible. You whining about the uniparty globalist cabal doesnt change who controls the Senate nor White House. You can only get concessions and incrementalism right now. That is political reality.

Dump Trump, get the Democrats to stay the course with Biden, and in 1 year and 4 months you have the opportunity of a lifetime to have the largest conservative majority this country has ever seen and ram your agenda down everyones throat. Thats not reality right now.

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So you are saying the GOP should continue the go along to get along mantra they have been doing for decades which has enabled America's decline, then in the next election the people will vote in a majority of the same GOP that has enabled said problem and you think that same GOP is suddenly going to start being conservative? I like your enthusiam, but that's the definition of insanity repeating what we've done historically and expecting a different outcome.

We are tired of kicking the can down the road conceding while D's are in power then putting blind naive faith in the GOP to fix it when they are in power. The rug is being pulled out now because the D's are dead set on destruction and the GOP is dead set on allowing it. Gaetz is starting a trend that hopefully wakes up the GOP and the D's that they cant keep their establishment uni-party game going otherwise we are ok letting it crumble.

Teslag said:

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Your approach delays the inevitable, while (by your argument) my approach simply bites the bullet now...

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My approach, which is tactical decision making, sets up a chance to at least take the presidency, increase the house margin, and take the senate. Which creates a path to enable legislation more closely to what we want, and can get.

Yours doens't. It's simply burning down the house and letting the democrats rebuild it in whatever image they desire.

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EVERY TIME we take the presidency, our spending STILL goes up...

Why?

R's don't have the balls to say, "NO!"

Thinking there are better options out there that "might work this time" while ignoring all of the times in the past they have failed to work is lunacy...

By hook or by crook, the D's always get their way because R's are too afraid of perception...

That is the paradox this country is faced with...

Sounds like you dont have faith in the Republicans to deliver what you want when they have power, and will instead try the stop paying medicare, social security, and military salaries gambit as the ticket to Conservative Nirvana. I see political suicide in that approach, but hey, at least you tried something.

FireAg said:

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Teslag said:

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Your approach delays the inevitable, while (by your argument) my approach simply bites the bullet now...

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My approach, which is tactical decision making, sets up a chance to at least take the presidency, increase the house margin, and take the senate. Which creates a path to enable legislation more closely to what we want, and can get.

Yours doens't. It's simply burning down the house and letting the democrats rebuild it in whatever image they desire.

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EVERY TIME we take the presidency, our spending STILL goes up...

Why?

R's don't have the balls to say, "NO!"

Thinking there are better options out there that "might work this time" while ignoring all of the times in the past they have failed to work is lunacy...

By hook or by crook, the D's always get their way because R's are too afraid of perception...

That is the paradox this country is faced with...

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Have you considered for a moment that the American public may say they want spending cut, but in practicality do not? And they government they get simply reflects that?

Malibu said:

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Sounds like you dont have faith in the Republicans to deliver what you want when they have power,

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Yes, this is obvious. I've said this for years yet the "conservatives" keep voting for the establishment types during election season then complain when they are in power and do nothing.

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and will instead try the stop paying medicare, social security, and military salaries gambit as the ticket to Conservative Nirvana. I see political suicide in that approach, but hey, at least you tried something.

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Nice strawman, but hey if you think America's future is one where the people are dependent on big brother, then you are proving my point that shutting the government down and ruffling the dependents feathers is the right move, regardless of the political fallout.

There simply cannot be a coexisting country if a large portion wants to be dependent on big brother and the other side wants to be conservative. You are proving my point that shutting it down is the right move.

But you won't shut lit down. All you can do is delay.

You seem to be under this notion that a shut down will create a permanent dystopian comeuppance for many people. It won't. It will simply usher in a multigeneration rule of complete democrat authority in as few as 15 months. As soon as they have the gavel, spending won't just resume, it will explode. Everyone back paid. Everyone given even more as they suffered under the "GOP shutdown" that is parroted by every media outlet on the planet. And "safeguards" will be put in place to "prevent this threat to our financial stability and democracy" from ever happening again.

And dollars to donuts you'll be on this website telling us how terrible it is and it's everyone's fault but yours and Matt Gaetz.

Tea Party said:

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Malibu said:

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Sounds like you dont have faith in the Republicans to deliver what you want when they have power,

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Yes, this is obvious. I've said this for years yet the "conservatives" keep voting for the establishment types during election season then complain when they are in power and do nothing.

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and will instead try the stop paying medicare, social security, and military salaries gambit as the ticket to Conservative Nirvana. I see political suicide in that approach, but hey, at least you tried something.

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Nice strawman, but hey if you think America's future is one where the people are dependent on big brother, then you are proving my point that shutting the government down and ruffling the dependents feathers is the right move, regardless of the political fallout.

There simply cannot be a coexisting country if a large portion wants to be dependent on big brother and the other side wants to be conservative. You are proving my point that shutting it down is the right move.

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Do you ever consider that the "burn it all down" views shared by you, Gaetz and a few other hardliners is an extreme minority viewpoint in the country as a whole? Gaetz can pull these stunts with no issue because his district is one of the safest in the country. How do you think the constituents of republican congressmen in Western New York or central California will respond in 2024 to the media yelling at them 24/7 about how the republicans are shutting the government down for months? And then when they lose and the Democrats get control of all three branches there's nothing anyone can do to stop them.

Currently, the only way to advance any conservative priorities in a country that's basically 50/50 is incrementally. Hopefully that changes in '24 but that's reality now. Not everywhere is as far right as the Florida panhandle and the so called "squishy" conservatives are doing what they are supposed to do - represent their district.

Finn said:

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That is the point. He approached the job as one trying to work with the other side.

Reality Dems do not care. Stop with bipartisanship bs pass your agenda make them vote against it. Keep your job.

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let's be honest, the dems wouldn't have voted to oust mccarthy if it wasn't in their interest. gaetz has advanced the dems' agenda whether he intended to or not.

maybe some think that's okay, if nothing else to show establishment republicans that compromise with the dems will not be tolerated any longer. the irony being that to make that point, they teamed up with the dems and gave them what they wanted (mccarthy out).

Teslag said:

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You seem to be under this notion that a shut down will create a permanent dystopian comeuppance for many people. It won't. It will simply usher in a multigeneration rule of complete democrat authority in as few as 15 months. As soon as they have the gavel, spending won't just resume, it will explode. Everyone back paid. Everyone given even more as they suffered under the "GOP shutdown" that is parroted by every media outlet on the planet. And "safeguards" will be put in place to "prevent this threat to our financial stability and democracy" from ever happening again.

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I do not agree with the absolute that it won't, but I completely understand that it is significantly more likely it won't than there will be a positive awakening of the sheeple. That slim chance is worth the gamble to me because the current trajectory we are on by continueing the status quo is one to slow suicide by leftism.

And your point that the sheeple will eat up the media narrative that we need big bloated gov and if we don't get it then we must shame the conservatives that want to be left alone is exactly what is wrong with the country.

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And dollars to donuts you'll be on this website telling us how terrible it is and it's everyone's fault but yours and Matt Gaetz.

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You clearly do not know me because I advocate for short term pain for long term gain as one of the only ways that we can wake the sheeple up. I'm ready for making bold moves to save the country. Why aren't more people like you also ready?

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Why aren't more people like you also ready?

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Because I recognize the reality around me and work within those constraints.

Whatever happens, the general public will forget it by Christmas.

Teslag said:

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Why aren't more people like you also ready?

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Because I recognize the reality around me and work within those constraints.

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The establishment uni-party thanks you for your continued support in supporting the status quo.

But in all seriousness, do you really believe that we should pander to the D's now just so we can "fool" the squishy middle to support the GOP in the next election? The same squishy GOP that has been taking baby steps to the right when in power and conceding larger steps left when in the minority?

We've been doing what you are advocating for for decades, thus people have become conditioned to believe that that is the only reality. But it's not if people would actually care to be bold and step away from the status quo.

Pander? No. Take what you can get when you control one house of congress with a razor thin margin? Yes.

I also don't try for every green on a par 5.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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Whatever happens, the general public will forget it by Christmas.

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Ol' poopy pants must be so mad at the Democrats voting in unison to oust McCarthy. He's worried it will impact money to Kiev. But don't worry, they have a secret back channel plan to get some more unappropriated American funds to them.

Malibu said:

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Tea Party said:

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Malibu said:

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So your theory is that the Senate Dems and the White House are going to raise the white flag, roll over, and agree to your demands due to an angry nation and MSM that is dutifully taking your Republican message that the Democrats are to blame? Let us know how that works out for you.

In 42 days you'll have another continuing resolution to fund what Congress has already passed and Ukraine will get more weapons from America. I am Nostradamus.

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You are not Nostradamus, you are simply the tool the uni-party establishment uses to get their way yet you foolishly think you are winning all the while America burns around you.

Congrats I guess?

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I live on planet Earth and can recognize what is politically possible. You whining about the uniparty globalist cabal doesnt change who controls the Senate nor White House. You can only get concessions and incrementalism right now. That is political reality.

Dump Trump, get the Democrats to stay the course with Biden, and in 1 year and 4 months you have the opportunity of a lifetime to have the largest conservative majority this country has ever seen and ram your agenda down everyones throat. Thats not reality right now.

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He he.. you are assuming that voters will determine the outcome of the next election.

It’s amazing how many people pretended to support draining the swamp.

But are now throwing a fit because one of the biggest swamp creatures has been removed.

Take notes.

— Catturd ™ (@catturd2) October 4, 2023

Teslag said:

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Pander? No. Take what you can get when you control one house of congress with a razor thin margin? Yes.

I also don't try for every green on a par 5.

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If you keep eating the turd soup that the cook makes, they are going to keep making the turd soup.

Sometimes you need to refuse the turd soup, even if it leaves you hungry.

Then you just get thrown out of the restaurant and turd soup is the only thing on the menu

Teslag said:

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Then you just get thrown out of the restaurant and turd soup is the only thing on the menu

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Burn down the restaurant...

They would be more than happy for you to do that so they can rebuild a restaurant that feeds you turd soup by force

Teslag said:

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Then you just get thrown out of the restaurant and turd soup is the only thing on the menu

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Keep going... You are almost at the logical outcome.

If turd soup is all they want to serve, then why does the cook get to keep his job?

Or more accurately, if sheeple like the turd soup, why do we want to share the same restaurant with them?

Teslag said:

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They would be more than happy for you to do that so they can rebuild a restaurant that feeds you turd soup by force

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Not if a better chef and waitstaff build back first...

Malibu said:

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I live on planet Earth and can recognize what is politically possible. You whining about the uniparty globalist cabal doesnt change who controls the Senate nor White House. You can only get concessions and incrementalism right now. That is political reality.

Dump Trump, get the Democrats to stay the course with Biden, and in 1 year and 4 months you have the opportunity of a lifetime to have the largest conservative majority this country has ever seen and ram your agenda down everyones throat. Thats not reality right now.

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our government is built around incrementalism and bipartisanship. it's incredibly difficult to ram through legislation without compromise. this is a good thing imo. republicans have spent the last 8 years cautiously courting the absolutist, dont-give-an-inch sentiment that pervades the gaetz wing of the gop and now it's obstructing them rather than their opponents.

Tea Party said:

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Teslag said:

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Then you just get thrown out of the restaurant and turd soup is the only thing on the menu

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Keep going... You are almost at the logical outcome.

If turd soup is all they want to serve, then why does the cook get to keep his job?

Or more accurately, if sheeple like the turd soup, why do we want to share the same restaurant with them?

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The problem with this analogy is that 85-90% of the patrons don't view what they are eating as turd soup, in fact half of them think it's a steak and more than half of them kicked the last chef to the curb. Why does a small minority get to either pick the menu or burn the place down? Sounds like they are the ones that need to find a different restaurant.

So much false surety posted with complete confidence in the early stages of this thread, very similar to many of the comments on the presidential primaries.

McCarthy should have FAFO tattooed on his forehead.

So going back to when this drama began in January, how much of it was specifically because of McCarthy? Was Gaetz specifically upset with him, or would he have focused his vitriol towards any of the senior GOP leadership in the House with a realistic chance of being Speaker?

Also, do you think he got it out of his system?

Yes, i do believe there is a personal feelings element between Mccarthy and Gaetz.

There's also the plain facts:

Mccarthy also agreed to the rules that were set up with Gaetz. He failed to abide by those rules and was forced out. I think Gaetz would have acted the same if the only variable changed would have been someone other than Mccarthy as speaker.

And no, Gaetz didn't get it out of his system. This appears to be his system.

I think the biggest thing is that Republican Leadership made it seem like the options were the House "republican" bill and the Senate Democrat bill. There was also an option to shut down the government.