Teslag said:

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Do you assert that ICE vehicles, garaged and shut down, spontaneously combust at a greater rate than garaged EVs?

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I don't have that data, neither does anyone on this thread. The only real data we do have is the NTSB showing a higher rate of fire overall than ICE vehicles.

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What is your opinion?

Teslag said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Tesla I do not understand you at all. This is not a dig but I need to know.

Do you really feel like you're accomplishing anything by asking posters for peer reviewed studies to verify their concerns? Were all just sharing our feelings/opinions and you come in here asking for the data that validates our opinions. I'd never scoff at or shame someone who avoids something out of safety concerns; even if the data doesn't validate their concerns. What is your goal here? Chirping at folks who don't have the same risk tolerance seems pointless. What am I missing?

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Peer reviewed study? Hell at this point I'd be lucky to get some rough numbers written in crayon from them.

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I interpret this response as you skipping the substance of my inquiry to address a pin point inside of my post. If there's a greater point you were making, I missed it.

cecil77 said:

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Teslag said:

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Do you assert that ICE vehicles, garaged and shut down, spontaneously combust at a greater rate than garaged EVs?

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I don't have that data, neither does anyone on this thread. The only real data we do have is the NTSB showing a higher rate of fire overall than ICE vehicles.

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What is your opinion?

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Opinions are worthless in data driven decision making. Why would I form one with such a substantial lack of data? The only thing we know for certain is that ice vehicles are more fire prone.

Nothing to see here.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/08/14/nikola-recalls-all-battery-electric-trucks-following-a-fire.html

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- Nikola is recalling all 209 of the battery-electric semitrucks it has made to date to repair a potential flaw in their battery packs.

- A fire that started in a truck's battery pack destroyed five Nikola trucks at the company's headquarters in June.

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Opinions are worthless in data driven decision making. Why would I form one with such a substantial lack of data? The only thing we know for certain is that ice vehicles are more fire prone.

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This is a "coffee shop" discussion place of neither import nor consequence. Opinions are the reason for these forums existence!

Indeed this: "The only thing we know for certain is that ice vehicles are more fire prone." is not data driven at all for the topic in question (garaged fires) and is an opinion you use to bolster your case. That's how opinions work


So what is your opinion on the relative numbers if EV garage fires versus ICE garage fires?

I think it's probably higher for ice based on the data

Teslag said:

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I think it's probably higher for ice based on the data

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OK, thanks.

You are completely wrong of course, because the data's out there if you'd care to look for it. ICE fires, while sitting turned off in a garage are exceedingly rare, while not at all common, EV fires sitting in a garage plugged in (as they normally would be) are explicable and the risk thereof (however low) is endemic to the technology.

It's no sense me (nor anyone else) posting data, because your argumentation style is mono-maniacal and ignores anything that doesn't support your opinion.

Thanks for answering, although your answer is disingenuous, and you know it.

[WardCleaver] Teslag, the lack of respect you show to the discussion process on Texags, presumably with folks you have a bonding commonality (Aggies) is just sad and pitiful. In this guise or the STM guise, you really show little interest in discussion, and revel in polemics. How is that fun for you? If you interact with people in real life as you do here, i.e. stiff necked, childishly literal, and "right" to a fault, I can't imagine... well, I just can't imagine. [/WardCleaver]

I'd welcome a PM from a real person, but sans that, it's for the best that we won't be interacting on forums.

If this data was so easy to find you'd no doubt have zero trouble sharing it. And of course you then rely on attacking the poster while also trying to claim how one party "isn't interested in discussion".

Correct on all points, and those of us with degrees for instance from the college of engineering are well aware of the abject lack of logic in terms of comparing the likelihood of a fire (and bodily risk if there is one) in a garage from a charging EV vs. a sitting ICE vehicle.

I choose not to engage in pedantic back-and-forth's with that poster any longer as I don't find it productive.

https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2023/08/30/vehicle-fire-reported-on-us-290-eastbound-at-magnum/

Yet another ICE bomb causing major delays this morning.

https://www.wishtv.com/news/vehicle-fire-blocking-all-lanes-of-nb-i-65-north-of-lebanon/

And in Indiana.

And even a small child and adult seriously injured in yet another ICE vehicle fire. At what point is it child negligence to put a child in an ICE vehicle when a safer alternative exists?

https://www.wbaltv.com/article/adult-child-injured-deer-park-road-vehicle-fire/44940041



And all of these just in the last 24 hours.

None of those just burst into flames while parked.

https://iontb.com/state-fire-marshal-secure-electric-vehicles-away-from-storm-surge-threat/

Teslag said:

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I think it's probably higher for ice based on the data

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One does not use data to "think" something in the data set occurs at a higher rate.

Thinking here would be akin to saying "I think 2 + 2 is higher than 3.9". The data shows it or it don't, So this is indeed your opinion which you described its worth above.

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Opinions are worthless in data driven decision making. Why would I form one with such a substantial lack of data? The only thing we know for certain is that ice vehicles are more fire prone.

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SockStilkings said:

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Teslag said:

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I think it's probably higher for ice based on the data

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One does not use data to "think" something in the data set occurs at a higher rate.

Thinking here would be akin to saying "I think 2 + 2 is higher than 3.9". The data shows it or it don't, So this is indeed your opinion which you described its worth above.

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Opinions are worthless in data driven decision making. Why would I form one with such a substantial lack of data? The only thing we know for certain is that ice vehicles are more fire prone.

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Show your work.Thanks.

ntxVol said:

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None of those just burst into flames while parked.

https://iontb.com/state-fire-marshal-secure-electric-vehicles-away-from-storm-surge-threat/

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I'm sure the children burned in ICE vehicles care if it were stationary or not.

Teslag said:

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SockStilkings said:

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Teslag said:

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I think it's probably higher for ice based on the data

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One does not use data to "think" something in the data set occurs at a higher rate.

Thinking here would be akin to saying "I think 2 + 2 is higher than 3.9". The data shows it or it don't, So this is indeed your opinion which you described its worth above.

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Opinions are worthless in data driven decision making. Why would I form one with such a substantial lack of data? The only thing we know for certain is that ice vehicles are more fire prone.

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Show your work.Thanks.

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I am not the one making a claim. You did with "I think it's probably higher for ice based on the data".

Yep, we have data showing far more ICE vehicles catch fire than EV. All your side has is some random articles and youtube clips. So I extrapolated accordingly.

Teslag said:

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ntxVol said:

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None of those just burst into flames while parked.

https://iontb.com/state-fire-marshal-secure-electric-vehicles-away-from-storm-surge-threat/

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I'm sure the children burned in ICE vehicles care if it were stationary or not.

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You sir are an ass and you know that response is disingenuous.

https://www.channel3000.com/news/nobody-injured-after-car-catches-fire-in-madison-covered-garage/article_5184d58a-46ac-11ee-b651-4f58c1943cf7.html


Luckily no one in this ICE bomb stationery fire in the last 24 hours was killed or injured. But it could have been much much worse.

https://www.mywabashvalley.com/news/firefighters-battling-vehicle-fire-in-th-parking-garage/

And then this one a few days ago in a parking garage no less.

https://www.wjfw.com/news/car-fire-in-rhinelander-goodwill-parking-lot/article_c7a80146-45f9-11ee-aec6-f3074590741b.html

And another in a parking lot just stationary.

These are all in the last 24 hours or recent days. How many more do I need to post?

ntxVol said:

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Teslag said:

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ntxVol said:

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None of those just burst into flames while parked.

https://iontb.com/state-fire-marshal-secure-electric-vehicles-away-from-storm-surge-threat/

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I'm sure the children burned in ICE vehicles care if it were stationary or not.

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You sir are an ass and you know that response is disingenuous.

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I'm not the one who claimed the bar of "zero percent risk". How is your vehicle sale coming along?

cecil77 said:

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Teslag said:

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I think it's probably higher for ice based on the data

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OK, thanks.

You are completely wrong of course, because the data's out there if you'd care to look for it. ICE fires, while sitting turned off in a garage are exceedingly rare, while not at all common, EV fires sitting in a garage plugged in (as they normally would be) are explicable and the risk thereof (however low) is endemic to the technology.

It's no sense me (nor anyone else) posting data, because your argumentation style is mono-maniacal and ignores anything that doesn't support your opinion.

Thanks for answering, although your answer is disingenuous, and you know it.

[WardCleaver] Teslag, the lack of respect you show to the discussion process on Texags, presumably with folks you have a bonding commonality (Aggies) is just sad and pitiful. In this guise or the STM guise, you really show little interest in discussion, and revel in polemics. How is that fun for you? If you interact with people in real life as you do here, i.e. stiff necked, childishly literal, and "right" to a fault, I can't imagine... well, I just can't imagine. [/WardCleaver]

I'd welcome a PM from a real person, but sans that, it's for the best that we won't be interacting on forums.

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Roughly 300 million cars in the US and 3 million are electric.

Teslag said:

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ntxVol said:

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Teslag said:

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ntxVol said:

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None of those just burst into flames while parked.

https://iontb.com/state-fire-marshal-secure-electric-vehicles-away-from-storm-surge-threat/

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I'm sure the children burned in ICE vehicles care if it were stationary or not.

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You sir are an ass and you know that response is disingenuous.

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I'm not the one who claimed the bar of "zero percent risk". How is your vehicle sale coming along?

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If you had read those stories you posted, you would know that two of those three actually caught fire while being driven. The third is a developing story that has no details about how the fire started.

I never claimed zero percent risk, you somehow extrapolated that from a comment I made earlier.

I keep my vehicles pretty well maintained, I don't believe there is any risk of fire from any of my vehicles being parked my garage. For EVs, none of that matters because the batteries can go into thermal runaway while sitting there charging.

If you want to make excuses for ice vehicle fires, which occur at a greater rate than EV fires, you are free to do so. It's your family, not mine.

I respect my family enough to not perform my own electrical work since I am untrained and unlicensed to do so.

People have different approach's to risk management. But you seem to be as preoccupied in discussing children being burned alive as you are with stacking bodies of conscripted Russian soldiers. It's an odd tactic to take in discussions.

Who said I'm untrained?

Teslag said:

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If you want to make excuses for ice vehicle fires, which occur at a greater rate than EV fires, you are free to do so. It's your family, not mine.

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Condescending statement.

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After crunching car fire statistics and sales data, the authors of the study found that hybrids actually have more fires per 100K sales, with:

• Hybrid vehicles: 3,474 fires per 100K sales
• Gas vehicles: 1,529 fires per 100K sales
• Electric vehicles: 25 fires per 100K sales

Although electric vehicles (EVs) may not catch fire as often as other vehicles, when they do catch fire, they can be extremely difficult to extinguish and cause much more damage. This has to do with the battery, which we'll talk about more in a moment.
As you'll see below, when hybrid and EVs are recalled for fire risks, battery issues are almost always the cause.

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https://ndakotalaw.com/do-electric-cars-catch-fire-more-than-gas-powered-vehicles/

The damage is what insurers will take notice of moreso than numbers.

But that damage is occurring at a fraction of the rate of incidence. My point stands and I appreciate the additional data point for my position.

https://www.newscentermaine.com/article/news/special-reports/maines-changing-climate/electric-vehicle-battery-fire-risk/97-c4a3c306-8f34-4f94-bf67-02e5dfd60066#:~:text=EV%20fires%20can%20burn%20significantly,this%20new%20brand%20of%20fire.

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EV fires can burn significantly hotter than an internal combustion engine fire. Data from FEMA suggest a gas-powered vehicle burns up to about 1,500 degrees Fahrenheit while a battery fire can reach over 2,500 F.

Most fire departments don't have currently additional equipment or agents to combat this new brand of fire.

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One big caveat here is that the majority of car fires occur with older model cars. There aren't many older EVs on the road, with the older models dating back to about 2012. So more data are needed to be sure, but we can say with reasonable confidence that the risk of fire in EVs isn't higher than that of gas cars.

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Here is an important note. Age of vehicles as it relates to fires. Yes, they say the risk is not higher in electric v gas, but the reaility is we do not have enough time data to examine.

We need to be looking at the rate of fires by cars made in 2023, 2022, 2021, and 2020. Breakdown the gas, hybrid, and electric by the year made.

We do not have this data to support an argument from either side of this debate. However, we cannot ignore rate of incident increases as cars age.