TRM said:

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FireAg said:

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aggie93 said:

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FireAg said:

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Trend is:
Trump UP
DeSantis DOWN
Vivek UP

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So it isn't 0-0-0? What is the count then?

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Trends mean something, my friend...

I can guarantee you no one in the DeSantis camp is giddy over the continuing trend...

Now, trends can change...but it's hard to deny that he hasn't had any momentum since March of this year...if he had been holding steady, that would be something...but it has been a consistent, steady decline...

It is what it is...

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Wait, there was a trend in Iowa with DeSantis going up? Doesn't that mean something or did you just discard that bit of information from yesterday.

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Ummm...I have already mentioned in another thread that DeSantis has creeped up in Iowa, and that was indeed good news and also likely indicative of his strong ground game there...

But he's still >20 points behind with 4.5 months to go...as I said in another thread, if he is going to have a shot in Iowa on Jan 15, he probably needs to be polling no more than 6-8 points down going into caucus day...

Bryanisbest said:

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FireAg said:

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LostInLA07 said:

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Yep. DeSantis is really screwing up his campaign. I've heard commentators say it was known that he is bad on the campaign trail but I really expected more out of him. He lost all of the fiery, rational matter of fact-ness that made him so popular as Florida governor. It's almost like he is trying too hard to not be like Trump. Really odd.

Vivek is going to end up the clear #3 candidate in the GOP field in my opinion and is setting himself up to be a major up and comer for the 2028 cycle.

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I'm not sure which surprises me more...Ramaswamy basically coming out of nowhere and making a push to have a chance at being relevant, or the absolute failed ability to date for DeSantis to gain any sustainable traction at all...

DeSantis has the right message, and he has skins on the wall at the state level to back it up...

But from the Twitter launch debacle, to down-sizing and reorganizing his campaign staff, to his 'listless vessels' comment that was not received in the manner for which I believe he intended...he just does not seem to have a great campaign staff behind him...

I really think he is the best, conservative option in the field...I just don't see how he gets there when he can't seem to generate any momentum...

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Is there a correlation between the good or bad way someone runs a campaign and the way he would run an executive branch? This has been a big argument made against Trump. That his actions during the campaign are big reasons not to vote for him. Does Hwy 6 run both ways? Or does it only run against the one you don't like?

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You know, I think you pose a valid question...but the weird dynamic here is that Trump is basically getting incumbent "respect" (if you will), while not technically being the sitting incumbent...

It's a very strange dynamic that we really have never seen in modern politics (modern meaning social media and 24-hour news cycles)...

Dan Scott said:

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A shirtless tennis video by GOP presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy certainly grabs headlines.

This comes after he was shown on video rapping to Eminem a little over a week ago. There are plenty of people who don’t like this.

So many of our politicians forget to show their… pic.twitter.com/1kNFVJZ1mY

— Ed Krassenstein (@EdKrassen) August 21, 2023

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Trump still better.

Dan Scott said:

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A shirtless tennis video by GOP presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy certainly grabs headlines.

This comes after he was shown on video rapping to Eminem a little over a week ago. There are plenty of people who don’t like this.

So many of our politicians forget to show their… pic.twitter.com/1kNFVJZ1mY

— Ed Krassenstein (@EdKrassen) August 21, 2023

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Notice who is posting that.

FireAg said:

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aggie93 said:

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FireAg said:

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Trend is:
Trump UP
DeSantis DOWN
Vivek UP

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So it isn't 0-0-0? What is the count then?

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Trends mean something, my friend...

I can guarantee you no one in the DeSantis camp is giddy over the continuing trend...

Now, trends can change...but it's hard to deny that he hasn't had any momentum since March of this year...if he had been holding steady, that would be something...but it has been a consistent, steady decline...

It is what it is...

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Trends in August do mean something, just need to be kept in perspective. The latest "trend" is due to a CBS poll with about 500 people they did online and it had huge numbers for Trump and Vivek. I mean that's fine but you have posted the same graph on at least 3 threads and are obsessing over it on all of them.

It's also important to remember though that the Delegate Count is 0-0-0. No one has voted and we are just about to have our first debate. Radical swings can and will happen. That doesn't mean DeSantis is in good shape or that it wouldn't be nice if he had better numbers, it just means they are just one of many data points.

I hear you man...but I think you are holding out hope for something that just may not be in the cards...

We will see if the debate helps DeSantis right his ship tomorrow...hopefully it will...

But right now, he's steadily sinking...

Also, FWIW, the 538 average shows essentially the same gap as the RCP, and they are not using the CBS poll...they too show the only candidate with any momentum (again, not named Trump) is Ramaswamy...

FireAg said:

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The Banned said:

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FireAg said:

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LostInLA07 said:

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Yep. DeSantis is really screwing up his campaign. I've heard commentators say it was known that he is bad on the campaign trail but I really expected more out of him. He lost all of the fiery, rational matter of fact-ness that made him so popular as Florida governor. It's almost like he is trying too hard to not be like Trump. Really odd.

Vivek is going to end up the clear #3 candidate in the GOP field in my opinion and is setting himself up to be a major up and comer for the 2028 cycle.

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I'm not sure which surprises me more...Ramaswamy basically coming out of nowhere and making a push to have a chance at being relevant, or the absolute failed ability to date for DeSantis to gain any sustainable traction at all...

DeSantis has the right message, and he has skins on the wall at the state level to back it up...

But from the Twitter launch debacle, to down-sizing and reorganizing his campaign staff, to his 'listless vessels' comment that was not received in the manner for which I believe he intended...he just does not seem to have a great campaign staff behind him...

I really think he is the best, conservative option in the field...I just don't see how he gets there when he can't seem to generate any momentum...

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Dude, give it up. It's not surprising at all. Trump has diehards. Those diehards aren't giving up, and with each passing indictment those diehards become even more entrenched. Any support ramaswammy is getting is only because half the party is hoping for ANYONE to beat Donald and there are so many candidates it's going to be split a billion different ways. Just like 2016.

Many on this board called in months ago. If this is trump vs 3+ other candidates, trump is the likely winner. The only real hope is desantis winning the first few states and riding that momentum to a solid race down the stretch. But as soon as idiots like Haley, Scott, Pence, etc entered the race, it was always going to be a long shot

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The "diehards" were there from the beginning...

Trump's numbers continue to steadily rise while DeSantis's decline...so Trump (and probably Ramaswamy) are picking up support at DeSantis's expense...that's what it appears to be anyway...

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Trump is essentially at where he began, with his major gains following indictments. This is easily explained as trump supporters that started to give desantis a shot before swinging strongly back in his hacked following the indictments. Vivek gained a couple points? I guess you can lay that at the feet of a lackluster campaign, but Vivek is also kissing trumps ass, so it's likely original trump supporters that prefer a newer model

Eh...I guess you could argue he's close to where he was in January, but definitely at least a couple of points higher...

What I notice though is that he seemed to hit his "low" in the Spring...and since then, he has completely rebounded and then some...

FireAg said:

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I hear you man...but I think you are holding out hope for something that just may not be in the cards...

We will see if the debate helps DeSantis right his ship tomorrow...hopefully it will...

But right now, he's steadily sinking...

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I'm not expecting anything to change until at least December but we will see. I understand things may not change and we may be stuck with Trump and likely a Goldwater style beatdown in November. I'm just not going to get too worked up until the votes actually start to come in. It certainly seems like you are posting these polls constantly and commenting on them to make it seem hopeless for DeSantis supporters though.

As also mentioned the Des Moines Register poll was definitely far more relevant than any of these. That's a true Non Partisan poll done in Iowa that has been around a long time. DeSantis trails there as well but there were definitely nuggets of optimism. Interestingly Vivek is sucking wind in that one.

Lots of other data that doesn't add up either. For instance Trump is way up in polls of who will beat Biden. Trump is way up with Evangelicals. I mean maybe he keeps that up but

Still, it's August 22 and the first vote isn't until January and if you don't think that matters at least as much as some of those polls I would caution you as well. Things change, that's the only constant.

Somethin about the kid....

This kind of made me dizzy.

VivekGPT malfunctions on whether Trump should debate…

From “fundamentally uncourageous” and “embarrassing” to “understandable” and “I have no problem with it”… pic.twitter.com/l5Sxmr6aUg

— AG (@AGHamilton29) August 22, 2023

All Trump's contenders are in a tough spot.. If they don't loudly condemn the obvious unprecedented election interference, then they are seen, and rightly so, as its beneficiaries
If Trump is taken down with this selective prosecution and obvious attack by the fed, then nothing else matters.
It proves that only people perceived as harmless by the deep state, are allowed to run for office.
and the entire political system "democracy" is just a pantomime for idiots

aggie93 said:

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This kind of made me dizzy.

VivekGPT malfunctions on whether Trump should debate…

From “fundamentally uncourageous” and “embarrassing” to “understandable” and “I have no problem with it”… pic.twitter.com/l5Sxmr6aUg

— AG (@AGHamilton29) August 22, 2023

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Vivek is simply that guy we all know from work who is smart and capable but as soon as he opens his mouth everyone else in the room rolls their eyes because they know they're going to hear a truckload full of b.s. He's the guy who produces, but not nearly as much as he'll tell you that he produces.

But he's a smooth talker and talks his way up the food chain until he gets himself into a position where he can't survive on just talk and instead he actually has to produce. That's when he finds out he's talked himshelf into a position that he's not truly not competent at and he's not going to be able to talk his way out of the trouble he's found himself in.

I simply don't want that guy to have talked his way into the Presidency of the U.S.

I'm just glad we have so many posters on texags that are smarter than Vivek so they can tell us everything they think they know about him based on some tweets and a few video clips.

Evidently to some you have to have so many years of being an elected politician in order to have the Rolodex and managerial experience to be POTUS. Seems odd, but even supposed conservatives on here believe one must be experienced in the deep state in order to run for the highest office.

Absolutely ZERO evidence he cannot backup the big game he talks.

I'm just glad he noted that Kaitlan Collins acts like a petulant teenager.

Hilarious interview with @CNN last night. Felt like I was talking to a petulant teenager. https://t.co/MUik3mMfNp

— Vivek Ramaswamy (@VivekGRamaswamy) August 22, 2023

fka ftc said:

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Evidently to some you have to have so many years of being an elected politician in order to have the Rolodex and managerial experience to be POTUS. Seems odd, but even supposed conservatives on here believe one must be experienced in the deep state in order to run for the highest office.

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And there you go making an extreme jump to try to prove your point...

Having some political experience =/= deep state.

Claiming we're wary of Vivek because he has absolutely zero political experience =/= we're fans of the deep state.

There's absolutely zero evidence he can back up the big talk he's made so far. Investing in businesses is so different from manuevering in politics it shouldn't even need to be explained how different they are.

And my point was that he's full of a lot of hot air, switching stances, shifting with the winds. There is plenty of evidence building to prove that.

FL_Ag1998 said:

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fka ftc said:

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Evidently to some you have to have so many years of being an elected politician in order to have the Rolodex and managerial experience to be POTUS. Seems odd, but even supposed conservatives on here believe one must be experienced in the deep state in order to run for the highest office.

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And there you go making an extreme jump to try to prove your point...

Having some political experience =/= deep state.

Claiming we're wary of Vivek because he has absolutely zero political experience =/= we're fans of the deep state.

There's absolutely zero evidence he can back up the big talk he's made so far. Investing in businesses is so different from manuevering in politics it shouldn't even need to be explained how different they are.

And my point was that he's full of a lot of hot air, switching stances, shifting with the winds. There is plenty of evidence building to prove that.

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They are not at all that different. I have maneuvered in both and you have to adapt a bit between the two but him investing and being a success in business has many qualities that translate.

Where does this idea that politics is such magic box that requires experience? BTW - A great many politicians were first successful business people. Some were doctors, many were lawyers.

Saying Vivek is too green to be POTUS based on the fact he has not previously held elected office is simply nonsensical to me.

We will see how he does tomorrow and from there on. If he is a paper tiger, it will show pretty quickly.

johnnyblaze36 said:

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I'm just glad he noted that Kaitlan Collins acts like a petulant teenager.

Hilarious interview with @CNN last night. Felt like I was talking to a petulant teenager. https://t.co/MUik3mMfNp

— Vivek Ramaswamy (@VivekGRamaswamy) August 22, 2023

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I mean that's one way to hear it but he was pretty evasive, he just didn't like the question. I understood what he was saying but honestly he could have done a lot better. He kept talking about the Saudis involvement and how not all the information was released but he missed the chance to just say, "Of course I don't think our government was behind 9/11". She even asked him that directly and he laughed and deflected. He should have just said that and then made his point about the Saudis and the release of the other information as well as Jan 6. When he didn't say that she kept after him, that's how they play.

Is Collins a POS Leftist MSM hack? Sure, but he knew that going in and he should have been better prepared for that question. I don't think he is a conspiracy theorist and I understand his point but he's done better.

fka ftc said:

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FL_Ag1998 said:

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fka ftc said:

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Evidently to some you have to have so many years of being an elected politician in order to have the Rolodex and managerial experience to be POTUS. Seems odd, but even supposed conservatives on here believe one must be experienced in the deep state in order to run for the highest office.

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And there you go making an extreme jump to try to prove your point...

Having some political experience =/= deep state.

Claiming we're wary of Vivek because he has absolutely zero political experience =/= we're fans of the deep state.

There's absolutely zero evidence he can back up the big talk he's made so far. Investing in businesses is so different from manuevering in politics it shouldn't even need to be explained how different they are.

And my point was that he's full of a lot of hot air, switching stances, shifting with the winds. There is plenty of evidence building to prove that.

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They are not at all that different. I have maneuvered in both and you have to adapt a bit between the two but him investing and being a success in business has many qualities that translate.

Where does this idea that politics is such magic box that requires experience? BTW - A great many politicians were first successful business people. Some were doctors, many were lawyers.

Saying Vivek is too green to be POTUS based on the fact he has not previously held elected office is simply nonsensical to me.

We will see how he does tomorrow and from there on. If he is a paper tiger, it will show pretty quickly.

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I feel like we've talked about this 1000 times. As President, your hands are intentionally tied in a ton of ways that they would never be when you run a business. The problem with a billionaire showing up to DC thinking he can run the show is that he spends the next couple years trying to figure out why he can't implement what he wants to implement.

With the level of sickness this country has reached, you need an experienced surgeon to cut out the rot. Vivek knows he WANTS to cut out the rot. That's good. But he has not demonstrated he knows HOW and misunderstanding his potential powers already shows that he is primed for the trump treatment. They'll hit him from a dozen different directions and he won't know how to react

fka ftc said:

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Evidently to some you have to have so many years of being an elected politician in order to have the Rolodex and managerial experience to be POTUS. Seems odd, but even supposed conservatives on here believe one must be experienced in the deep state in order to run for the highest office.

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Not at all, you can have a great track record building a business and managing people. Vivek is an investment guy not a business builder. He's great at getting people to give him money and buying low and selling high. His biggest drug that he made the most money on never made it to approval, he got out at just the right time. When his company went public he had 8 employees, most of which were family. I mean kudos to him for making serious cash and that takes a lot of talent, I would love to have it myself. It's just making money in investing doesn't really apply to being President very well. Basically he's a Wall Street Finance guy.

He really doesn't have any other qualifications. He has a Law Degree but never practiced Law. He's never really been involved in civics or community affairs in any significant way.

He also isn't the rags to riches story he makes himself out to be. His Mom is a Doctor and his Dad is a Patent Attorney and they had their Degrees before they left India. He is a Brahmin Caste which is the top of the food chain in India, only 4% are Brahmin. He went to Private School and then Harvard and Yale.

Signel said:

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The media has been pushing Vivek and Chris Christie. Before this, it was leftists pushing RFK because he has spoken out against the vax.

None of those choices are what 99% of the conservative base wants. Clearly a political move.

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This. Vivek is a novelty distraction candidate being fueled by the left that desperately wants to dodge DeSantis. The GOP nominee will be 1 of 2 people: Trump or DeSantis.
All these debates with other candidates (including Vivek) distract people from DeSantis, and increase the chances we nominate Trump. (Which is what the left wants).

Completely incorrect. Vivek has just run a masterful campaign of talking to everyone, young/old, left/right, etc. He has created his momentum all on his own. I don't think anyone is scared of Desantis.

Tibbers said:

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Completely incorrect. Vivek has just run a masterful campaign of talking to everyone, young/old, left/right, etc. He has created his momentum all on his own. I don't think anyone is scared of Desantis.

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Well, Vivek did create his momentum by paying for a poll that miraculously showed him in second place. But other than that, yeah, its been a completely organic movement.

Tibbers said:

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Completely incorrect. Vivek has just run a masterful campaign of talking to everyone, young/old, left/right, etc. He has created his momentum all on his own. I don't think anyone is scared of Desantis.

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Agreed. Ron is doing nothing to gain traction. Certainly hasn't won me over.

Quote:

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don't think anyone is scared of Desantis.

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Other than Trump of course.

Ramaswamy obviously is brilliant and very knowledgeable on a wide range of subjects, smart as a whip! However, he comes across as too cute by half sometimes. I feel more comfortable with someone like Ron DeSantis, who is also brilliant but has an experienced track record in government to give you a basis to judge how he will perform if he gets in. Also, we need a strong, tough guy to handle the tremendous pressure in draining the swamp. I don't see Ramaswamy as strong enough. DeSantis has shown mental toughness in his actions in Florida. It should be Trump or DeSantis.

You can keep discussing it a 1000 times, and I will disagree with you each one of those times. Have a bit of respect that others have a different perspective and experience than you.

BTW - As POTUS your powers are only limited by the Constitution. So its a bit different than business but in your own business it is sort of the same. My employees can give me their input, but I am President and my decisions are final.

The Banned said:

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With the level of sickness this country has reached, you need an experienced surgeon to cut out the rot. Vivek knows he WANTS to cut out the rot. That's good. But he has not demonstrated he knows HOW and misunderstanding his potential powers already shows that he is primed for the trump treatment. They'll hit him from a dozen different directions and he won't know how to react

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Is Christie or DeSantis the "surgeon we need"? Maybe Pence? I mean Pence was there for 4 years as Trump's consigliere about how "things in Washington get done" aka a surgeon.

Or is Tim Scott the surgeon? The never married momma's boy from cotton to congress? Does he know how to cut the rot?

If Vivek can cut it, he will prove it at the debate(s) and on the trail. But I am not going to sell him short just because Mr Vivek has not gone to Washington (yet).

The presidents job is to set the vision and close. He has 100s of staff to sort out the details.

Vivek

Anyone heard the entire VR long form interview on Shawn Ryan Show? Starting to like the guy.