Does V have any experience being an elected official? That might be a plus for him..

Agreed, Vivek made it very clear that he is for American interests first. Once superconductor technology is secured in America and bilateral trade agreements are secured with Korea, Japan, etc. then there's not much Taiwan has to offer. He lifts the veil of altruism in our steadfast protection of Taiwan. I'm fine with that as I view superconductors, steel, energy independence as matters of national security. It's insane that we are reliant on our enemy for our current way of life.

Aztec1948 said:

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Does V have any experience being an elected official? That might be a plus for him..

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I have asked this before to others, but did you vote for Trump in 2016?

Tibbers said:

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Aztec1948 said:

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Does V have any experience being an elected official? That might be a plus for him..

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I have asked this before to others, but did you vote for Trump in 2016?

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No...I simply couldn't vote for either that cycle. Did not trust either candidate. I did in 2020...and was super proud of that. Just seems like DC has infected him perhaps. Hard for that not to happen to anybody. Right now at this juncture, I just don't know. Would I vote for him again..absolutely. Even with all his "negatives" he is a better candidate than someone who supports the murder of the unborn plank in the DEM platform. Which brings us Kennedy. Says he is against pre-born murder, but how serious is he? Is that just lip service. I'd like to see him finish what his uncle started. What party is he? I've seen independent...DEM perhaps..not clear.

Aztec1948 said:

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We all recall how Obama came out of left field

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Did he though? I mean it was a fast rise for a junior senator to be the keynote speaker at the DNC, but everyone who saw that speech was like welp, that guy's gonna be President some day. Four years later he ran for President and it turned out everyone was right.

Loquacious Lunchbox said:

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Aztec1948 said:

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We all recall how Obama came out of left field

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Did he though? I mean it was a fast rise for a junior senator to be the keynote speaker at the DNC, but everyone who saw that speech was like welp, that guy's gonna be President some day. Four years later he ran for President and it turned out everyone was right.

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Yes, for me he certainly did. I followed politics even less closely then than I do now.

This evening was the first time I heard of V.

We have dinner with a couple on a regular basis. The wife has never mentioned politics over the years but started a conversation with her admiration of Vivek. That type of anecdotal evidence always gets my attention. My Dad made a similar comment in 92 about Clinton. I damn near fell out of my chair. Dude was a staunch conservative.

Hate to break it to you, but your father was not a staunch conservative.

And is anyone surprised an emotional being like a woman is intrigued by Vivek?

His "china can have Taiwan" policy sounds smart.

BMX Bandit said:

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Hate to break it to you, but your father was not a staunch conservative.

And is anyone surprised an emotional being like a woman is intrigued by Vivek?

His "china can have Taiwan" policy sounds smart.

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While we might not use nuclear weapons to defend Taiwan, we would surely use conventional weapons to come to Taiwan's defense. China would have far more to lose by going to war to take Taiwan than they could possibly gain from it. Consequently, there is nothing to gain by inviting China to take Taiwan.

We want Taiwan and China to be reunited some day, but peacefully, not by military action.

Also, the logistics of taking an island by force is horrific. Especially one that is as committed to defense as Taiwan. Vivek at least sticks to his guns when he talks about America first and refusing to send American soldiers into battle that isn't of American interest. It's a very isolationist stance but he certainly hasn't budged from that stance. Did we come to the aid of Hong Kong?

Tibbers said:

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Also, the logistics of taking an island by force is horrific. Especially one that is as committed to defense as Taiwan. Vivek at least sticks to his guns when he talks about America first and refusing to send American soldiers into battle that isn't of American interest. It's a very isolationist stance but he certainly hasn't budged from that stance. Did we come to the aid of Hong Kong?

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Hong Kong wasn't taken by war. The British had a lease on Hong Kong that was expiring and gave it back as a result.

And they fought back, holding up American flags urging us to help them. Did we?

eric76 said:

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BMX Bandit said:

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Hate to break it to you, but your father was not a staunch conservative.

And is anyone surprised an emotional being like a woman is intrigued by Vivek?

His "china can have Taiwan" policy sounds smart.

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While we might not use nuclear weapons to defend Taiwan, we would surely use conventional weapons to come to Taiwan's defense. China would have far more to lose by going to war to take Taiwan than they could possibly gain from it. Consequently, there is nothing to gain by inviting China to take Taiwan.

We want Taiwan and China to be reunited some day, but peacefully, not by military action.

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And after the fall of the Peoples Republic and the CCP.

Exactly, so why not starve the dragon after decoupling all the key industries and bringing them back to production in the states? Consider it a national security.

Tibbers said:

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And they fought back, holding up American flags urging us to help them. Did we?

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Cites?

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2019/09/11/why-hong-kong-protesters-fly-stars-and-stripes/giWnhf2QqexGW1NLTf9gsJ/story.html

Do you really not remember them fighting back for weeks and asking for help?

Tibbers said:

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https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2019/09/11/why-hong-kong-protesters-fly-stars-and-stripes/giWnhf2QqexGW1NLTf9gsJ/story.html

Do you really not remember them fighting back for weeks and asking for help?

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There was a lot, A LOT, of B.S. that China pulled to shut down democracy in Hong Kong when they took over. But the fact still remains that China did not invade Hong Kong. There was legal precedence for them taking over Hong Kong that would have made it very hard for a foreign interest like the U.S. to jump in. Two different scenarios that you're co-mingling in order to use the Hong Kong scenario as an attempt to vindicate Vivek's statement.

China is a very complex and delicate issue, and Vivek may have some good thoughts on how to handle them. But his statement about Taiwan was simplistic and naive.

I'd say it's more pragmatic but we each have our own opinion. Just saying the people of Hong Kong were begging for a response from the United States and we did nothing.

Don't think he'll win, but I like what he has to say so far.

aggie93 said:

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Aztec1948 said:

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Hungry Ojos said:

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Aztec1948 said:

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La Bamba said:

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I know very little of VR, but I like alot of what he said in that interview with Carlson.

Edit: still a RD guy first, but VR doesn't sounds like a bad alterantive. I admit I know nothing of his past.

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Who is RD?

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Ah...I had forgotten Dasantis. This is him?

Which of the candidates is the least tainted by DC? Which one is the least deep state oriented?

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Depends on what you like. DeSantis was in Congress for 6 years but was a Founder of the Freedom Caucus, voted 99.36% Conservative, and held himself to term limits of 3 terms. His record as FL Governor is the most conservative and anti establishment in modern history.

Vivek is a Pharma guy that made billions in a hedge fund after graduating from school10 years ago, hadn't voted until 2020 but decided he should be President. He also is already showing he speaks very well but has no clue what he is talking about much of the time. Another example:

The thing that is most revealing about Vivek's pronouncements is that he hasn't spent any time actually understanding these issues. He just says what he thinks sounds good and he can sell.

How can you claim to want to prioritize America's interests if you don't understand how… https://t.co/kgm8v6hszG

— AG (@AGHamilton29) August 18, 2023

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What he said, and I think most people would agree with it, is that he isn't in favor of sending Americans to fight and die in a war unless our own vital national interests are at stake.

Vivek is very smart, and I think a quick study on issues. Since he approaches issues as a conservative
and America first, it does not take him all that long to formulate his position!

oh no said:

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I thought Vivek explained very well how the dynamics and the calculus changes if China invades Taiwan before we can achieve semiconductor independence vs after (around 2028). He didn't say he wants to just let them take Taiwan in 2028.

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Biden didn't tell Putin he could invade Ukraine either, right?

GE said:

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aggie93 said:

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Aztec1948 said:

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Hungry Ojos said:

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Aztec1948 said:

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La Bamba said:

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I know very little of VR, but I like alot of what he said in that interview with Carlson.

Edit: still a RD guy first, but VR doesn't sounds like a bad alterantive. I admit I know nothing of his past.

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Who is RD?

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Ah...I had forgotten Dasantis. This is him?

Which of the candidates is the least tainted by DC? Which one is the least deep state oriented?

---

Depends on what you like. DeSantis was in Congress for 6 years but was a Founder of the Freedom Caucus, voted 99.36% Conservative, and held himself to term limits of 3 terms. His record as FL Governor is the most conservative and anti establishment in modern history.

Vivek is a Pharma guy that made billions in a hedge fund after graduating from school10 years ago, hadn't voted until 2020 but decided he should be President. He also is already showing he speaks very well but has no clue what he is talking about much of the time. Another example:

The thing that is most revealing about Vivek's pronouncements is that he hasn't spent any time actually understanding these issues. He just says what he thinks sounds good and he can sell.

How can you claim to want to prioritize America's interests if you don't understand how… https://t.co/kgm8v6hszG

— AG (@AGHamilton29) August 18, 2023

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What he said, and I think most people would agree with it, is that he isn't in favor of sending Americans to fight and die in a war unless our own vital national interests are at stake.

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Sure, but the way he said it shows he has zero foreign policy experience and understanding of the impact of how he said it.

Vivek isn't qualified. We have our choice of several governors and senators with proven track records if we're rational enough to look past Trump. There's no reason to take a lark on an unproven quantity. The presidency isn't for rookies. He needs to run for a lesser office and establish himself. I suspect he has no interest in actually putting in that hard work and he's following the Pete Buttigieg playbook of running for president to raise his profile and maybe fail up to a cabinet position.

Tibbers said:

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https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2019/09/11/why-hong-kong-protesters-fly-stars-and-stripes/giWnhf2QqexGW1NLTf9gsJ/story.html

Do you really not remember them fighting back for weeks and asking for help?

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Not a bit. I can imagine that there might have been some protests. But going into actual combat, I don't remember that at all.

By the way, the story you linked was from the last decade, not the handover of Hong Kong by Britain back to China.

Tibbers said:

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I'd say it's more pragmatic but we each have our own opinion. Just saying the people of Hong Kong were begging for a response from the United States and we did nothing.

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Cites, please.

What I remember is a lot of pomp and circumstance.

aggie93 said:

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GE said:

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aggie93 said:

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Aztec1948 said:

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Hungry Ojos said:

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Aztec1948 said:

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La Bamba said:

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I know very little of VR, but I like alot of what he said in that interview with Carlson.

Edit: still a RD guy first, but VR doesn't sounds like a bad alterantive. I admit I know nothing of his past.

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Who is RD?

---

---

Ah...I had forgotten Dasantis. This is him?

Which of the candidates is the least tainted by DC? Which one is the least deep state oriented?

---

Depends on what you like. DeSantis was in Congress for 6 years but was a Founder of the Freedom Caucus, voted 99.36% Conservative, and held himself to term limits of 3 terms. His record as FL Governor is the most conservative and anti establishment in modern history.

Vivek is a Pharma guy that made billions in a hedge fund after graduating from school10 years ago, hadn't voted until 2020 but decided he should be President. He also is already showing he speaks very well but has no clue what he is talking about much of the time. Another example:

The thing that is most revealing about Vivek's pronouncements is that he hasn't spent any time actually understanding these issues. He just says what he thinks sounds good and he can sell.

How can you claim to want to prioritize America's interests if you don't understand how… https://t.co/kgm8v6hszG

— AG (@AGHamilton29) August 18, 2023

---

What he said, and I think most people would agree with it, is that he isn't in favor of sending Americans to fight and die in a war unless our own vital national interests are at stake.

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Sure, but the way he said it shows he has zero foreign policy experience and understanding of the impact of how he said it.

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What was the way he said it that you are referring to? I've heard him say it in several places and it was basically exactly what I said.

That's 2019. SMH..


Anyway, it's beside the point. I like Vivek's answers. I like that he would instead use our military resources to secure the southern border and cease the cartel's dominance, stop fentanyl, and stop illegal immigration. It makes no sense to allow these things to occur when we have the means to stop them.

Vivek says today or yesterday that he wants to cut funding to Israel. Is he an Arab or Muslim?

and I will make of thee a great nation (Israel);
And I will bless thee (Abraham), and make thy name great;
and thou shalt be a blessing; and I will bless them that bless thee (American funding to Israel), and curse him that curseth thee (stops aid to Israel) . . . Gen 12:2-3

Tibbers said:

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That's 2019. SMH..

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And the British returned Hong Kong to China in 1997, 22 years prior to the protests in the video.


Those protests were not Hong Kong defending themselves from a Chinese war to take Hong Kong back. They already had Hong Kong.

That said, China is not keeping their promises to leave Hong Kong alone after they reunited.

The victims and families of the Maui catastrophe deserve to know the TRUTH. As wildfires raged, desperate residents petitioned state officials to send more water for firefighting & to help protect their properties from fire. That request went unanswered for hours, withholding… https://t.co/RXtCpfgsWG

— Vivek Ramaswamy (@VivekGRamaswamy) August 19, 2023

We have to as a nation decouple ourselves from the Climate Cult. I'm glad Vivek has his sights on the problem and is not afraid to speak truth to this.

Tibbers said:

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gtaggie_08 said:

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Vivek has a checkered past that not many people have taken the time to investigate. He was all on board with COVID shutdowns and made money hand over fist bc of it. I think he has served as Trumps attack dog on DeSantis to drive interest away from RD. I have serious questions about his true background/core political beliefs. RD is a known commodity that has been elected for multiple positions and is a proven winner

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Show me proof that Vivek made money off covid. that's quite the allegation without proof. Please explain his "checkered past". If we are going to sling mud, at least be clear about what you are slinging.

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Agreed. And I say this as one who's backing DeSantis.

TriAg2010 said:

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Vivek isn't qualified. We have our choice of several governors and senators with proven track records if we're rational enough to look past Trump. There's no reason to take a lark on an unproven quantity. The presidency isn't for rookies. He needs to run for a lesser office and establish himself. I suspect he has no interest in actually putting in that hard work and he's following the Pete Buttigieg playbook of running for president to raise his profile and maybe fail up to a cabinet position.

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I tend to agree in general. What Vivek appears to be is an excellent communicator and effective debater with interesting to excellent policy positions. AND he's not afraid to go on any communication medium to share them.

Aztec1948 said:

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Watching!