Science Denier said:

---

The Banned said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

Are you not going to answer? What do moderates support that aligns with Trump more than DeSantis?

---

Trump is a fighter. Outsider. Not a clean cut perfect wife, perfect children, perfect Christian politician. Rural Americans know that they are looked down on for shopping at dollar tree and walmart. They can't buy a reasonably priced truck because of bureaucrats in urban areas finding them evil. Trump talks like them. He sees a kettle he calls it black. Trump might have an Ivy league degree but you would much rather grab a beer with him then most other people. That is his likability. Yes there is a group that doesn't like him for all of those things.

Look at the Oliver Anthony song. I'd wager $50 Oliver likely would vote for Trump over DeSantis if asked. Just is hitting a different note than the Urban/Suburban college educated crowd normally hears.

---

The irony of course is Trump has lived a truly privileged and elite lifestyle his entire life. DeSantis is pure middle class and spent 20 years paying off college loans.

I understand how people get manipulated to think Trump can relate to them and cares about them but neither is true. Perception is reality though for many and it's a little sad. Trump would have made a great Roman Emperor with bread and circuses to distract the mob.

---

So what. Trump clearly can relate and resonate with middle class Americans. That isn't debatable. I can relate with people who aren't my same race, religion and socio economic status. I posses this thing called empathy. Trump is either the greatest actor of all time (30 year running gig) or he also is very gifted in empathy.

Note on Trump's likeability. He is referenced in many sitcoms. Michael Scott has a "You're fired" joke in the office. Trump is in Home Alone 2. If he wasn't generally liked or seen positively he wouldn't have kept being written into shows as references. Now that of course stopped post 2015.

---

Trump is a salesman. You've been sold. Not until you work on a sales team (primarily transactional business vs repeat customers) do you realize just how good salesman can be at hiding their contempt for their customer.

Think bud light. Until 6 months ago, that was a working man's beer. Now look at them. Bud light didn't change. They just finally stopped lying about who they are.

Desantis literally lived the life most of us on this board did. he is one of the few, if not only, politicians that didn't massively enrich themselves while in DC when he, unlike trump, had every incentive to do so.

But these are all emotional back and forths. The real argument should be policy and future outlook. Trump with 4 years fighting every indictment on the planet and who knows how many other bs schemes the Dems come up with after failing to drain the swamp, or desantis who has absolutely crushed some-ism and the dens, create a conservative safe haven for people to flee to for refuge from their blue state.

---

1. People have been going to Florida to retire for decades, well before DeSantis landed there. It's a retirement place. They have always attracted alot of the US population. Since older people tend to vote conservative, it's always been a place where more conservatives move.

2. More people are moving to Texas than Florida. I wouldn't say Abbott is "crushing it".

---

2 is just false. https://www.tamus.edu/data-science/2023/02/15/state-to-state-migration-trends-in-the-united-states/#:~:text=In%20terms%20of%20net%20migration,from%20other%20states%20in%202020.

1 is a half truth. Yes, people have been retiring there forever. No those people did not make Florida super conservative. It has very, very clearly happened under desantis. Purple to deep red in 4 years.

There can be 2 types of TDS. I'll give you pictures of each:

On our way to see the king. 👑 @realDonaldTrump #LIVGolf @LIVGolfUpdates @livgolf_league @PaulIngrassia @OliviaIngrassia pic.twitter.com/RCdYMjaUAi

— Laura Loomer (@LauraLoomer) August 13, 2023

Phatbob said:

---

Gigem314 said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

You tell me, who does Trump see as his enemies? Because he keeps telling us himself who his enemies are, and they include conservatives, a lot of them. I get you want revenge on the left because they are corrupt, but the words and actions coming from Trump himself tell me he's not much better. I'm sorry you can't admit what he keeps telling us on a daily basis, but sometimes the enemy of your enemy is NOT your friend.

---

I'm sorry you can't see the difference between petty politics and actual destruction of things that conservatives value because your hatred of Trump outweighs your ability to reason.

---

And I'm sorry you can't see that those conservative values are indeed being attacked by both the left and this big government NY businessman.

---

And I'm sorry you're too blinded with hatred to see that real attacks from the Left through actual policy and govt overreach with establishment Republicans who chastise their own voting base are far worse than petty campaign battles.

texagbeliever said:

---

The Banned said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

Are you not going to answer? What do moderates support that aligns with Trump more than DeSantis?

---

Trump is a fighter. Outsider. Not a clean cut perfect wife, perfect children, perfect Christian politician. Rural Americans know that they are looked down on for shopping at dollar tree and walmart. They can't buy a reasonably priced truck because of bureaucrats in urban areas finding them evil. Trump talks like them. He sees a kettle he calls it black. Trump might have an Ivy league degree but you would much rather grab a beer with him then most other people. That is his likability. Yes there is a group that doesn't like him for all of those things.

Look at the Oliver Anthony song. I'd wager $50 Oliver likely would vote for Trump over DeSantis if asked. Just is hitting a different note than the Urban/Suburban college educated crowd normally hears.

---

The irony of course is Trump has lived a truly privileged and elite lifestyle his entire life. DeSantis is pure middle class and spent 20 years paying off college loans.

I understand how people get manipulated to think Trump can relate to them and cares about them but neither is true. Perception is reality though for many and it's a little sad. Trump would have made a great Roman Emperor with bread and circuses to distract the mob.

---

So what. Trump clearly can relate and resonate with middle class Americans. That isn't debatable. I can relate with people who aren't my same race, religion and socio economic status. I posses this thing called empathy. Trump is either the greatest actor of all time (30 year running gig) or he also is very gifted in empathy.

Note on Trump's likeability. He is referenced in many sitcoms. Michael Scott has a "You're fired" joke in the office. Trump is in Home Alone 2. If he wasn't generally liked or seen positively he wouldn't have kept being written into shows as references. Now that of course stopped post 2015.

---

Trump is a salesman. You've been sold. Not until you work on a sales team (primarily transactional business vs repeat customers) do you realize just how good salesman can be at hiding their contempt for their customer.

Think bud light. Until 6 months ago, that was a working man's beer. Now look at them. Bud light didn't change. They just finally stopped lying about who they are.

Desantis literally lived the life most of us on this board did. he is one of the few, if not only, politicians that didn't massively enrich themselves while in DC when he, unlike trump, had every incentive to do so.

But these are all emotional back and forths. The real argument should be policy and future outlook. Trump with 4 years fighting every indictment on the planet and who knows how many other bs schemes the Dems come up with after failing to drain the swamp, or desantis who has absolutely crushed some-ism and the dens, create a conservative safe haven for people to flee to for refuge from their blue state.

---

Yeah Trump clearly is just conning me. That is why he was: spied on by Obama post election, censored by social media, hoaxes brought against him by DOJ & FBI, hoaxes brought against his closest allies (Flynn and Stone), impeached under bogus accusations, and now under several indictments with the left hellbent on having him put in jail for the crime of being on the right. But yeah I see he is really just out that making big money and getting a big laugh all at my expense. The FACTS don't support Trump being this profiteering con-man unless you do some crazy 34-D chess.

Why is Trump doing any of this if he doesn't actually care about the fate of Americans? It makes zero sense. He is poorer. His family is target numero uno. He could have easily of been on the winning left side but instead he put a giant target on his back when he ran against Clinton. You'd have to think he is the dumbest person on the planet to justify believing he is just conning Americans. Or you ignore all the facts that don't fit your moral disposition of the guy because he is crude, and not suitable for church.

---

Attention. It's all he cares about. And also because it's now convincing a bunch of idiots to pay his legal bills for him.

Quote:

---

I post articles from all over, not just MM. If they are factual, I post.

I know those with TDS hate certain facts, but I can't help that. Facts are facts.

---

And how may I ask do you know a "fact" is a fact? Because CNN or MSNBC told you it was a "fact"?

I would be shocked if anyone could point to a news outlet that actually posted "facts" versus bias, but hey, it's a challenge worth taking on isn't it?

Jeeper79 said:

---

I feel like so much of what MAGA calls TDS is really just clarity, and the real TDS is coming from inside the MAGA camp.

---

TDS is the brain being influenced due to hate of Trump and causes logic to disappear.

Examples:
Charging Trump for a felony when there is no evidence of anything close
Voting to impeach due to a phone call
Claiming a Trump supporter is a member of his campaign team because, well, she posts on X and met with him.

You know, things like that.

texagbeliever said:

---

The Banned said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

Are you not going to answer? What do moderates support that aligns with Trump more than DeSantis?

---

Trump is a fighter. Outsider. Not a clean cut perfect wife, perfect children, perfect Christian politician. Rural Americans know that they are looked down on for shopping at dollar tree and walmart. They can't buy a reasonably priced truck because of bureaucrats in urban areas finding them evil. Trump talks like them. He sees a kettle he calls it black. Trump might have an Ivy league degree but you would much rather grab a beer with him then most other people. That is his likability. Yes there is a group that doesn't like him for all of those things.

Look at the Oliver Anthony song. I'd wager $50 Oliver likely would vote for Trump over DeSantis if asked. Just is hitting a different note than the Urban/Suburban college educated crowd normally hears.

---

The irony of course is Trump has lived a truly privileged and elite lifestyle his entire life. DeSantis is pure middle class and spent 20 years paying off college loans.

I understand how people get manipulated to think Trump can relate to them and cares about them but neither is true. Perception is reality though for many and it's a little sad. Trump would have made a great Roman Emperor with bread and circuses to distract the mob.

---

So what. Trump clearly can relate and resonate with middle class Americans. That isn't debatable. I can relate with people who aren't my same race, religion and socio economic status. I posses this thing called empathy. Trump is either the greatest actor of all time (30 year running gig) or he also is very gifted in empathy.

Note on Trump's likeability. He is referenced in many sitcoms. Michael Scott has a "You're fired" joke in the office. Trump is in Home Alone 2. If he wasn't generally liked or seen positively he wouldn't have kept being written into shows as references. Now that of course stopped post 2015.

---

Trump is a salesman. You've been sold. Not until you work on a sales team (primarily transactional business vs repeat customers) do you realize just how good salesman can be at hiding their contempt for their customer.

Think bud light. Until 6 months ago, that was a working man's beer. Now look at them. Bud light didn't change. They just finally stopped lying about who they are.

Desantis literally lived the life most of us on this board did. he is one of the few, if not only, politicians that didn't massively enrich themselves while in DC when he, unlike trump, had every incentive to do so.

But these are all emotional back and forths. The real argument should be policy and future outlook. Trump with 4 years fighting every indictment on the planet and who knows how many other bs schemes the Dems come up with after failing to drain the swamp, or desantis who has absolutely crushed some-ism and the dens, create a conservative safe haven for people to flee to for refuge from their blue state.

---

Yeah Trump clearly is just conning me. That is why he was: spied on by Obama post election, censored by social media, hoaxes brought against him by DOJ & FBI, hoaxes brought against his closest allies (Flynn and Stone), impeached under bogus accusations, and now under several indictments with the left hellbent on having him put in jail for the crime of being on the right. But yeah I see he is really just out that making big money and getting a big laugh all at my expense. The FACTS don't support Trump being this profiteering con-man unless you do some crazy 34-D chess.

Why is Trump doing any of this if he doesn't actually care about the fate of Americans? It makes zero sense. He is poorer. His family is target numero uno. He could have easily of been on the winning left side but instead he put a giant target on his back when he ran against Clinton. You'd have to think he is the dumbest person on the planet to justify believing he is just conning Americans. Or you ignore all the facts that don't fit your moral disposition of the guy because he is crude, and not suitable for church.

---

When you begin to understand ego and narcissism, or spend significant amounts of time with a narcissist, you'll understand. He cares about America, sure. But what he really cares about is him being the savior of America. I'm ok with that in part. That trait can be used for some good things, like much of his first term. But once the ego becomes a significant weakness (like it is now), it's all downhill. And it should never be misconstrued with actually caring about others.

And I understand he's been the target of a witch hunt. That's all bull***** Doesn't mean we should vote for him. And especially not when he's throwing the best governor in the whole damn country under the bus just DAYS BEFORE A MIDTERM ELECTION!!!! That right there proved to me he doesn't care about anyone or anything more than himself. The guy who doesn't have to ask for forgiveness.

I'll vote for him if I have to but we can do so much better.

ttu_85 said:

---

Funky Winkerbean said:

---

Well, if Mr Flipkowski the admitted troll said it, it has to be true. TDS has ruined you.

---

All the Trumpers have left is "TDS" this "TDS" that. That **** is beyond old and stupid. Get some new material.

Trump brought this on this recent backlash from the right by not being a team player. That jackass only cares for himself and the cult is too blind to see.

---

That's not all they have left. Don't forgot accusing another candidate's wife of faking cancer or calling candidates 3rd grade nicknames is now "just politics as usual."

Either way it's all just desperation because they know their hero will be gone from the public eye forever after '24, whether he loses the primary or the general.

Gigem314 said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

Gigem314 said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

You tell me, who does Trump see as his enemies? Because he keeps telling us himself who his enemies are, and they include conservatives, a lot of them. I get you want revenge on the left because they are corrupt, but the words and actions coming from Trump himself tell me he's not much better. I'm sorry you can't admit what he keeps telling us on a daily basis, but sometimes the enemy of your enemy is NOT your friend.

---

I'm sorry you can't see the difference between petty politics and actual destruction of things that conservatives value because your hatred of Trump outweighs your ability to reason.

---

And I'm sorry you can't see that those conservative values are indeed being attacked by both the left and this big government NY businessman.

---

And I'm sorry you're too blinded with hatred to see that real attacks from the Left through actual policy and govt overreach with establishment Republicans who chastise their own voting base are far worse than petty campaign battles.

---

It always comes back to "The most important thing is that Trump is being attacked!" I get it. It's wrong. It also doesn't justify his attacks on national conservatives nor does it make him a good person to be president.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

Attention. It's all he cares about. And also because it's now convincing a bunch of idiots to pay his legal bills for him.

---

How about the idiots on both sides that continue to believe lies about him breaking "laws", laws that either do not exist, been misapplied, or have never been prosecuted before?

Because the much bigger idiots are the ones persecuting him and not the ones who defended him.

Probably same sort of people who would call the 12 disciples "idiots" for following Jesus.

Aggie Apotheosis said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

The Banned said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

Are you not going to answer? What do moderates support that aligns with Trump more than DeSantis?

---

Trump is a fighter. Outsider. Not a clean cut perfect wife, perfect children, perfect Christian politician. Rural Americans know that they are looked down on for shopping at dollar tree and walmart. They can't buy a reasonably priced truck because of bureaucrats in urban areas finding them evil. Trump talks like them. He sees a kettle he calls it black. Trump might have an Ivy league degree but you would much rather grab a beer with him then most other people. That is his likability. Yes there is a group that doesn't like him for all of those things.

Look at the Oliver Anthony song. I'd wager $50 Oliver likely would vote for Trump over DeSantis if asked. Just is hitting a different note than the Urban/Suburban college educated crowd normally hears.

---

The irony of course is Trump has lived a truly privileged and elite lifestyle his entire life. DeSantis is pure middle class and spent 20 years paying off college loans.

I understand how people get manipulated to think Trump can relate to them and cares about them but neither is true. Perception is reality though for many and it's a little sad. Trump would have made a great Roman Emperor with bread and circuses to distract the mob.

---

So what. Trump clearly can relate and resonate with middle class Americans. That isn't debatable. I can relate with people who aren't my same race, religion and socio economic status. I posses this thing called empathy. Trump is either the greatest actor of all time (30 year running gig) or he also is very gifted in empathy.

Note on Trump's likeability. He is referenced in many sitcoms. Michael Scott has a "You're fired" joke in the office. Trump is in Home Alone 2. If he wasn't generally liked or seen positively he wouldn't have kept being written into shows as references. Now that of course stopped post 2015.

---

Trump is a salesman. You've been sold. Not until you work on a sales team (primarily transactional business vs repeat customers) do you realize just how good salesman can be at hiding their contempt for their customer.

Think bud light. Until 6 months ago, that was a working man's beer. Now look at them. Bud light didn't change. They just finally stopped lying about who they are.

Desantis literally lived the life most of us on this board did. he is one of the few, if not only, politicians that didn't massively enrich themselves while in DC when he, unlike trump, had every incentive to do so.

But these are all emotional back and forths. The real argument should be policy and future outlook. Trump with 4 years fighting every indictment on the planet and who knows how many other bs schemes the Dems come up with after failing to drain the swamp, or desantis who has absolutely crushed some-ism and the dens, create a conservative safe haven for people to flee to for refuge from their blue state.

---

Why is Trump doing any of this if he doesn't actually care about the fate of Americans?

---

First time around it was to increase the value/awareness of his brand. He was as surprised as anybody that he won, particularly after the "grabbing women by their vaginas" tape came out.

Second time around it's because he scared of going to jail.

---

This doesn't hold up logically.

Let's assume you are right, Trump won to increase his brand.

Then Trump finds out Obama is spying on his campaign and this dossier is going to come out and lead to a possible impeachment. At this point his Oh **** meter alarm bells should be going off. He should have recalibrated to make sure he acted in a way that didn't put himself, family and allies under attack. Because what is the value in growing a brand if you end up in jail and bankrupt from malicious prosecution? None. So his behavior while in the office should have been to moderate and be more appeasing to the left. Instead he attacked them and the established rhinos.

That means that either he is really stupid for not adjusting his plan realizing the stakes were far higher than being worth $6Bn vs being only worth $4Bn OR he realized something bigger needed to be done. I find it hard to swallow logically this was just about him thinking it was a worth risk taking to marginally (relative in terms of impact to quality of life) increase his wealth. I could see it being worth the risk if he had some other grander goal in his mind.

How would you explain him not course adjusting to being very liberal once the left made it clear they wanted to bury him? Would him not wanting to retaliate, by burying them not also align up with what all the conservative posters on this board want? I just don't see the defensibility of Trump being a snake oil salesman. It is honestly a lazy and tired trope left for the "moderates" to make.

fka ftc said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

Attention. It's all he cares about. And also because it's now convincing a bunch of idiots to pay his legal bills for him.

---

How about the idiots on both sides that continue to believe lies about him breaking "laws", laws that either do not exist, been misapplied, or have never been prosecuted before?

Because the much bigger idiots are the ones persecuting him and not the ones who defended him.

Probably same sort of people who would call the 12 disciples "idiots" for following Jesus.

---

If you don't eat the cult45 moniker, I would recommend avoiding any comparisons to Jesus or His apostles

The Banned said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

Attention. It's all he cares about. And also because it's now convincing a bunch of idiots to pay his legal bills for him.

---

How about the idiots on both sides that continue to believe lies about him breaking "laws", laws that either do not exist, been misapplied, or have never been prosecuted before?

Because the much bigger idiots are the ones persecuting him and not the ones who defended him.

Probably same sort of people who would call the 12 disciples "idiots" for following Jesus.

---

If you don't eat the cult45 moniker, I would recommend avoiding any comparisons to Jesus or His apostles

---

So Christianity is a cult? Boy, prepare yourself as that sort of thing can get folks riled up.

I think Cult45 is stupid and people who use it are equally stupid, but I cannot stop them.

The Banned said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

The Banned said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

Are you not going to answer? What do moderates support that aligns with Trump more than DeSantis?

---

Trump is a fighter. Outsider. Not a clean cut perfect wife, perfect children, perfect Christian politician. Rural Americans know that they are looked down on for shopping at dollar tree and walmart. They can't buy a reasonably priced truck because of bureaucrats in urban areas finding them evil. Trump talks like them. He sees a kettle he calls it black. Trump might have an Ivy league degree but you would much rather grab a beer with him then most other people. That is his likability. Yes there is a group that doesn't like him for all of those things.

Look at the Oliver Anthony song. I'd wager $50 Oliver likely would vote for Trump over DeSantis if asked. Just is hitting a different note than the Urban/Suburban college educated crowd normally hears.

---

The irony of course is Trump has lived a truly privileged and elite lifestyle his entire life. DeSantis is pure middle class and spent 20 years paying off college loans.

I understand how people get manipulated to think Trump can relate to them and cares about them but neither is true. Perception is reality though for many and it's a little sad. Trump would have made a great Roman Emperor with bread and circuses to distract the mob.

---

So what. Trump clearly can relate and resonate with middle class Americans. That isn't debatable. I can relate with people who aren't my same race, religion and socio economic status. I posses this thing called empathy. Trump is either the greatest actor of all time (30 year running gig) or he also is very gifted in empathy.

Note on Trump's likeability. He is referenced in many sitcoms. Michael Scott has a "You're fired" joke in the office. Trump is in Home Alone 2. If he wasn't generally liked or seen positively he wouldn't have kept being written into shows as references. Now that of course stopped post 2015.

---

Trump is a salesman. You've been sold. Not until you work on a sales team (primarily transactional business vs repeat customers) do you realize just how good salesman can be at hiding their contempt for their customer.

Think bud light. Until 6 months ago, that was a working man's beer. Now look at them. Bud light didn't change. They just finally stopped lying about who they are.

Desantis literally lived the life most of us on this board did. he is one of the few, if not only, politicians that didn't massively enrich themselves while in DC when he, unlike trump, had every incentive to do so.

But these are all emotional back and forths. The real argument should be policy and future outlook. Trump with 4 years fighting every indictment on the planet and who knows how many other bs schemes the Dems come up with after failing to drain the swamp, or desantis who has absolutely crushed some-ism and the dens, create a conservative safe haven for people to flee to for refuge from their blue state.

---

Yeah Trump clearly is just conning me. That is why he was: spied on by Obama post election, censored by social media, hoaxes brought against him by DOJ & FBI, hoaxes brought against his closest allies (Flynn and Stone), impeached under bogus accusations, and now under several indictments with the left hellbent on having him put in jail for the crime of being on the right. But yeah I see he is really just out that making big money and getting a big laugh all at my expense. The FACTS don't support Trump being this profiteering con-man unless you do some crazy 34-D chess.

Why is Trump doing any of this if he doesn't actually care about the fate of Americans? It makes zero sense. He is poorer. His family is target numero uno. He could have easily of been on the winning left side but instead he put a giant target on his back when he ran against Clinton. You'd have to think he is the dumbest person on the planet to justify believing he is just conning Americans. Or you ignore all the facts that don't fit your moral disposition of the guy because he is crude, and not suitable for church.

---

When you begin to understand ego and narcissism, or spend significant amounts of time with a narcissist, you'll understand. He cares about America, sure. But what he really cares about is him being the savior of America. I'm ok with that in part. That trait can be used for some good things, like much of his first term. But once the ego becomes a significant weakness (like it is now), it's all downhill. And it should never be misconstrued with actually caring about others.

And I understand he's been the target of a witch hunt. That's all bull***** Doesn't mean we should vote for him. And especially not when he's throwing the best governor in the whole damn country under the bus just DAYS BEFORE A MIDTERM ELECTION!!!! That right there proved to me he doesn't care about anyone or anything more than himself. The guy who doesn't have to ask for forgiveness.

I'll vote for him if I have to but we can do so much better.

---

They are all narcissists. Both men see themselves as the hero. If they didn't, they wouldn't have the drive to do what they need to do. It isn't an insult it is just the natural desire that comes with seeking the most elevated position in the WORLD.

Sounds like you are mad he said some mean things. That had no impact on DeSantis. Sounds kind of dumb to hold on to that. But you do you.

The Banned said:

---

Science Denier said:

---

The Banned said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

Are you not going to answer? What do moderates support that aligns with Trump more than DeSantis?

---

Trump is a fighter. Outsider. Not a clean cut perfect wife, perfect children, perfect Christian politician. Rural Americans know that they are looked down on for shopping at dollar tree and walmart. They can't buy a reasonably priced truck because of bureaucrats in urban areas finding them evil. Trump talks like them. He sees a kettle he calls it black. Trump might have an Ivy league degree but you would much rather grab a beer with him then most other people. That is his likability. Yes there is a group that doesn't like him for all of those things.

Look at the Oliver Anthony song. I'd wager $50 Oliver likely would vote for Trump over DeSantis if asked. Just is hitting a different note than the Urban/Suburban college educated crowd normally hears.

---

The irony of course is Trump has lived a truly privileged and elite lifestyle his entire life. DeSantis is pure middle class and spent 20 years paying off college loans.

I understand how people get manipulated to think Trump can relate to them and cares about them but neither is true. Perception is reality though for many and it's a little sad. Trump would have made a great Roman Emperor with bread and circuses to distract the mob.

---

So what. Trump clearly can relate and resonate with middle class Americans. That isn't debatable. I can relate with people who aren't my same race, religion and socio economic status. I posses this thing called empathy. Trump is either the greatest actor of all time (30 year running gig) or he also is very gifted in empathy.

Note on Trump's likeability. He is referenced in many sitcoms. Michael Scott has a "You're fired" joke in the office. Trump is in Home Alone 2. If he wasn't generally liked or seen positively he wouldn't have kept being written into shows as references. Now that of course stopped post 2015.

---

Trump is a salesman. You've been sold. Not until you work on a sales team (primarily transactional business vs repeat customers) do you realize just how good salesman can be at hiding their contempt for their customer.

Think bud light. Until 6 months ago, that was a working man's beer. Now look at them. Bud light didn't change. They just finally stopped lying about who they are.

Desantis literally lived the life most of us on this board did. he is one of the few, if not only, politicians that didn't massively enrich themselves while in DC when he, unlike trump, had every incentive to do so.

But these are all emotional back and forths. The real argument should be policy and future outlook. Trump with 4 years fighting every indictment on the planet and who knows how many other bs schemes the Dems come up with after failing to drain the swamp, or desantis who has absolutely crushed some-ism and the dens, create a conservative safe haven for people to flee to for refuge from their blue state.

---

1. People have been going to Florida to retire for decades, well before DeSantis landed there. It's a retirement place. They have always attracted alot of the US population. Since older people tend to vote conservative, it's always been a place where more conservatives move.

2. More people are moving to Texas than Florida. I wouldn't say Abbott is "crushing it".

---

2 is just false. https://www.tamus.edu/data-science/2023/02/15/state-to-state-migration-trends-in-the-united-states/#:~:text=In%20terms%20of%20net%20migration,from%20other%20states%20in%202020.

1 is a half truth. Yes, people have been retiring there forever. No those people did not make Florida super conservative. It has very, very clearly happened under desantis. Purple to deep red in 4 years.

---

Your statement on number 2 was data from 2020. I'm looking for the article I saw that showed Texas being more, but that could have been overall job creation, as retirees moving to Florida won't be reflected in that number.

texagbeliever said:

---

Aggie Apotheosis said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

The Banned said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

Are you not going to answer? What do moderates support that aligns with Trump more than DeSantis?

---

Trump is a fighter. Outsider. Not a clean cut perfect wife, perfect children, perfect Christian politician. Rural Americans know that they are looked down on for shopping at dollar tree and walmart. They can't buy a reasonably priced truck because of bureaucrats in urban areas finding them evil. Trump talks like them. He sees a kettle he calls it black. Trump might have an Ivy league degree but you would much rather grab a beer with him then most other people. That is his likability. Yes there is a group that doesn't like him for all of those things.

Look at the Oliver Anthony song. I'd wager $50 Oliver likely would vote for Trump over DeSantis if asked. Just is hitting a different note than the Urban/Suburban college educated crowd normally hears.

---

The irony of course is Trump has lived a truly privileged and elite lifestyle his entire life. DeSantis is pure middle class and spent 20 years paying off college loans.

I understand how people get manipulated to think Trump can relate to them and cares about them but neither is true. Perception is reality though for many and it's a little sad. Trump would have made a great Roman Emperor with bread and circuses to distract the mob.

---

So what. Trump clearly can relate and resonate with middle class Americans. That isn't debatable. I can relate with people who aren't my same race, religion and socio economic status. I posses this thing called empathy. Trump is either the greatest actor of all time (30 year running gig) or he also is very gifted in empathy.

Note on Trump's likeability. He is referenced in many sitcoms. Michael Scott has a "You're fired" joke in the office. Trump is in Home Alone 2. If he wasn't generally liked or seen positively he wouldn't have kept being written into shows as references. Now that of course stopped post 2015.

---

Trump is a salesman. You've been sold. Not until you work on a sales team (primarily transactional business vs repeat customers) do you realize just how good salesman can be at hiding their contempt for their customer.

Think bud light. Until 6 months ago, that was a working man's beer. Now look at them. Bud light didn't change. They just finally stopped lying about who they are.

Desantis literally lived the life most of us on this board did. he is one of the few, if not only, politicians that didn't massively enrich themselves while in DC when he, unlike trump, had every incentive to do so.

But these are all emotional back and forths. The real argument should be policy and future outlook. Trump with 4 years fighting every indictment on the planet and who knows how many other bs schemes the Dems come up with after failing to drain the swamp, or desantis who has absolutely crushed some-ism and the dens, create a conservative safe haven for people to flee to for refuge from their blue state.

---

Why is Trump doing any of this if he doesn't actually care about the fate of Americans?

---

First time around it was to increase the value/awareness of his brand. He was as surprised as anybody that he won, particularly after the "grabbing women by their vaginas" tape came out.

Second time around it's because he scared of going to jail.

---

This doesn't hold up logically.

Let's assume you are right, Trump won to increase his brand.

Then Trump finds out Obama is spying on his campaign and this dossier is going to come out and lead to a possible impeachment. At this point his Oh **** meter alarm bells should be going off. He should have recalibrated to make sure he acted in a way that didn't put himself, family and allies under attack. Because what is the value in growing a brand if you end up in jail and bankrupt from malicious prosecution? None. So his behavior while in the office should have been to moderate and be more appeasing to the left. Instead he attacked them and the established rhinos.

That means that either he is really stupid for not adjusting his plan realizing the stakes were far higher than being worth $6Bn vs being only worth $4Bn OR he realized something bigger needed to be done. I find it hard to swallow logically this was just about him thinking it was a worth risk taking to marginally (relative in terms of impact to quality of life) increase his wealth. I could see it being worth the risk if he had some other grander goal in his mind.

How would you explain him not course adjusting to being very liberal once the left made it clear they wanted to bury him? Would him not wanting to retaliate, by burying them not also align up with what all the conservative posters on this board want? I just don't see the defensibility of Trump being a snake oil salesman. It is honestly a lazy and tired trope left for the "moderates" to make.

---

I honestly think he did not believe they'd go that far. After all the other **** they gloss over for other politicians, you can't blame him for thinking they'd give up after he was out of office. But he lost. So now you're left with two options:

1. He loves America that much

2. He's a raging narcissist that, like all narcissists, is willing to burn down their entire house to prove that they're right about something important to them.

The Banned said:

---

I honestly think he did not believe they'd go that far. After all the other **** they gloss over for other politicians, you can't blame him for thinking they'd give up after he was out of office. But he lost. So now you're left with two options:

1. He loves America that much

2. He's a raging narcissist that, like all narcissists, is willing to burn down their entire house to prove that they're right about something important to them.

---

He is a raging narcissist who loves America enough to burn the establishment down to end the tyranny.

Going back to Jesus, there are plenty of people who have claimed Jesus was a narcissist.

texagbeliever said:

---

The Banned said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

The Banned said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

Are you not going to answer? What do moderates support that aligns with Trump more than DeSantis?

---

Trump is a fighter. Outsider. Not a clean cut perfect wife, perfect children, perfect Christian politician. Rural Americans know that they are looked down on for shopping at dollar tree and walmart. They can't buy a reasonably priced truck because of bureaucrats in urban areas finding them evil. Trump talks like them. He sees a kettle he calls it black. Trump might have an Ivy league degree but you would much rather grab a beer with him then most other people. That is his likability. Yes there is a group that doesn't like him for all of those things.

Look at the Oliver Anthony song. I'd wager $50 Oliver likely would vote for Trump over DeSantis if asked. Just is hitting a different note than the Urban/Suburban college educated crowd normally hears.

---

The irony of course is Trump has lived a truly privileged and elite lifestyle his entire life. DeSantis is pure middle class and spent 20 years paying off college loans.

I understand how people get manipulated to think Trump can relate to them and cares about them but neither is true. Perception is reality though for many and it's a little sad. Trump would have made a great Roman Emperor with bread and circuses to distract the mob.

---

So what. Trump clearly can relate and resonate with middle class Americans. That isn't debatable. I can relate with people who aren't my same race, religion and socio economic status. I posses this thing called empathy. Trump is either the greatest actor of all time (30 year running gig) or he also is very gifted in empathy.

Note on Trump's likeability. He is referenced in many sitcoms. Michael Scott has a "You're fired" joke in the office. Trump is in Home Alone 2. If he wasn't generally liked or seen positively he wouldn't have kept being written into shows as references. Now that of course stopped post 2015.

---

Trump is a salesman. You've been sold. Not until you work on a sales team (primarily transactional business vs repeat customers) do you realize just how good salesman can be at hiding their contempt for their customer.

Think bud light. Until 6 months ago, that was a working man's beer. Now look at them. Bud light didn't change. They just finally stopped lying about who they are.

Desantis literally lived the life most of us on this board did. he is one of the few, if not only, politicians that didn't massively enrich themselves while in DC when he, unlike trump, had every incentive to do so.

But these are all emotional back and forths. The real argument should be policy and future outlook. Trump with 4 years fighting every indictment on the planet and who knows how many other bs schemes the Dems come up with after failing to drain the swamp, or desantis who has absolutely crushed some-ism and the dens, create a conservative safe haven for people to flee to for refuge from their blue state.

---

Yeah Trump clearly is just conning me. That is why he was: spied on by Obama post election, censored by social media, hoaxes brought against him by DOJ & FBI, hoaxes brought against his closest allies (Flynn and Stone), impeached under bogus accusations, and now under several indictments with the left hellbent on having him put in jail for the crime of being on the right. But yeah I see he is really just out that making big money and getting a big laugh all at my expense. The FACTS don't support Trump being this profiteering con-man unless you do some crazy 34-D chess.

Why is Trump doing any of this if he doesn't actually care about the fate of Americans? It makes zero sense. He is poorer. His family is target numero uno. He could have easily of been on the winning left side but instead he put a giant target on his back when he ran against Clinton. You'd have to think he is the dumbest person on the planet to justify believing he is just conning Americans. Or you ignore all the facts that don't fit your moral disposition of the guy because he is crude, and not suitable for church.

---

When you begin to understand ego and narcissism, or spend significant amounts of time with a narcissist, you'll understand. He cares about America, sure. But what he really cares about is him being the savior of America. I'm ok with that in part. That trait can be used for some good things, like much of his first term. But once the ego becomes a significant weakness (like it is now), it's all downhill. And it should never be misconstrued with actually caring about others.

And I understand he's been the target of a witch hunt. That's all bull***** Doesn't mean we should vote for him. And especially not when he's throwing the best governor in the whole damn country under the bus just DAYS BEFORE A MIDTERM ELECTION!!!! That right there proved to me he doesn't care about anyone or anything more than himself. The guy who doesn't have to ask for forgiveness.

I'll vote for him if I have to but we can do so much better.

---

They are all narcissists. Both men see themselves as the hero. If they didn't, they wouldn't have the drive to do what they need to do. It isn't an insult it is just the natural desire that comes with seeking the most elevated position in the WORLD.

Sounds like you are mad he said some mean things. That had no impact on DeSantis. Sounds kind of dumb to hold on to that. But you do you.

---

I've already gone on record of saying anyone running for president is a narcissist to some degree. Trump is a whole other level, but I'll still grant that. I'd rather have a shrewd one that knows how to work with other people than a toxic one.

Im not mad about him saying mean things. "Mean tweets" is funny when you're talking about libs or moderates but I'm extremely conservative. I don't care that it was "mean"! It was ****ing stupid. Trump is as politically sharp as a butter knife and no matter how much he loses he absolutely refuses to learn from his mistakes. He will forever be an ineffective leader because of **** like this and I'd hope true conservatives are smart enough to see that

Science Denier said:

---

The Banned said:

---

Science Denier said:

---

The Banned said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

Are you not going to answer? What do moderates support that aligns with Trump more than DeSantis?

---

Trump is a fighter. Outsider. Not a clean cut perfect wife, perfect children, perfect Christian politician. Rural Americans know that they are looked down on for shopping at dollar tree and walmart. They can't buy a reasonably priced truck because of bureaucrats in urban areas finding them evil. Trump talks like them. He sees a kettle he calls it black. Trump might have an Ivy league degree but you would much rather grab a beer with him then most other people. That is his likability. Yes there is a group that doesn't like him for all of those things.

Look at the Oliver Anthony song. I'd wager $50 Oliver likely would vote for Trump over DeSantis if asked. Just is hitting a different note than the Urban/Suburban college educated crowd normally hears.

---

The irony of course is Trump has lived a truly privileged and elite lifestyle his entire life. DeSantis is pure middle class and spent 20 years paying off college loans.

I understand how people get manipulated to think Trump can relate to them and cares about them but neither is true. Perception is reality though for many and it's a little sad. Trump would have made a great Roman Emperor with bread and circuses to distract the mob.

---

So what. Trump clearly can relate and resonate with middle class Americans. That isn't debatable. I can relate with people who aren't my same race, religion and socio economic status. I posses this thing called empathy. Trump is either the greatest actor of all time (30 year running gig) or he also is very gifted in empathy.

Note on Trump's likeability. He is referenced in many sitcoms. Michael Scott has a "You're fired" joke in the office. Trump is in Home Alone 2. If he wasn't generally liked or seen positively he wouldn't have kept being written into shows as references. Now that of course stopped post 2015.

---

Trump is a salesman. You've been sold. Not until you work on a sales team (primarily transactional business vs repeat customers) do you realize just how good salesman can be at hiding their contempt for their customer.

Think bud light. Until 6 months ago, that was a working man's beer. Now look at them. Bud light didn't change. They just finally stopped lying about who they are.

Desantis literally lived the life most of us on this board did. he is one of the few, if not only, politicians that didn't massively enrich themselves while in DC when he, unlike trump, had every incentive to do so.

But these are all emotional back and forths. The real argument should be policy and future outlook. Trump with 4 years fighting every indictment on the planet and who knows how many other bs schemes the Dems come up with after failing to drain the swamp, or desantis who has absolutely crushed some-ism and the dens, create a conservative safe haven for people to flee to for refuge from their blue state.

---

1. People have been going to Florida to retire for decades, well before DeSantis landed there. It's a retirement place. They have always attracted alot of the US population. Since older people tend to vote conservative, it's always been a place where more conservatives move.

2. More people are moving to Texas than Florida. I wouldn't say Abbott is "crushing it".

---

2 is just false. https://www.tamus.edu/data-science/2023/02/15/state-to-state-migration-trends-in-the-united-states/#:~:text=In%20terms%20of%20net%20migration,from%20other%20states%20in%202020.

1 is a half truth. Yes, people have been retiring there forever. No those people did not make Florida super conservative. It has very, very clearly happened under desantis. Purple to deep red in 4 years.

---

Your statement on number 2 was data from 2020. I'm looking for the article I saw that showed Texas being more, but that could have been overall job creation, as retirees moving to Florida won't be reflected in that number.

---

Here is 2022

https://www.nar.realtor/blogs/economists-outlook/where-people-moved-in-2022

The Banned said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Aggie Apotheosis said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

The Banned said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

Are you not going to answer? What do moderates support that aligns with Trump more than DeSantis?

---

Trump is a fighter. Outsider. Not a clean cut perfect wife, perfect children, perfect Christian politician. Rural Americans know that they are looked down on for shopping at dollar tree and walmart. They can't buy a reasonably priced truck because of bureaucrats in urban areas finding them evil. Trump talks like them. He sees a kettle he calls it black. Trump might have an Ivy league degree but you would much rather grab a beer with him then most other people. That is his likability. Yes there is a group that doesn't like him for all of those things.

Look at the Oliver Anthony song. I'd wager $50 Oliver likely would vote for Trump over DeSantis if asked. Just is hitting a different note than the Urban/Suburban college educated crowd normally hears.

---

The irony of course is Trump has lived a truly privileged and elite lifestyle his entire life. DeSantis is pure middle class and spent 20 years paying off college loans.

I understand how people get manipulated to think Trump can relate to them and cares about them but neither is true. Perception is reality though for many and it's a little sad. Trump would have made a great Roman Emperor with bread and circuses to distract the mob.

---

So what. Trump clearly can relate and resonate with middle class Americans. That isn't debatable. I can relate with people who aren't my same race, religion and socio economic status. I posses this thing called empathy. Trump is either the greatest actor of all time (30 year running gig) or he also is very gifted in empathy.

Note on Trump's likeability. He is referenced in many sitcoms. Michael Scott has a "You're fired" joke in the office. Trump is in Home Alone 2. If he wasn't generally liked or seen positively he wouldn't have kept being written into shows as references. Now that of course stopped post 2015.

---

Trump is a salesman. You've been sold. Not until you work on a sales team (primarily transactional business vs repeat customers) do you realize just how good salesman can be at hiding their contempt for their customer.

Think bud light. Until 6 months ago, that was a working man's beer. Now look at them. Bud light didn't change. They just finally stopped lying about who they are.

Desantis literally lived the life most of us on this board did. he is one of the few, if not only, politicians that didn't massively enrich themselves while in DC when he, unlike trump, had every incentive to do so.

But these are all emotional back and forths. The real argument should be policy and future outlook. Trump with 4 years fighting every indictment on the planet and who knows how many other bs schemes the Dems come up with after failing to drain the swamp, or desantis who has absolutely crushed some-ism and the dens, create a conservative safe haven for people to flee to for refuge from their blue state.

---

Why is Trump doing any of this if he doesn't actually care about the fate of Americans?

---

First time around it was to increase the value/awareness of his brand. He was as surprised as anybody that he won, particularly after the "grabbing women by their vaginas" tape came out.

Second time around it's because he scared of going to jail.

---

This doesn't hold up logically.

Let's assume you are right, Trump won to increase his brand.

Then Trump finds out Obama is spying on his campaign and this dossier is going to come out and lead to a possible impeachment. At this point his Oh **** meter alarm bells should be going off. He should have recalibrated to make sure he acted in a way that didn't put himself, family and allies under attack. Because what is the value in growing a brand if you end up in jail and bankrupt from malicious prosecution? None. So his behavior while in the office should have been to moderate and be more appeasing to the left. Instead he attacked them and the established rhinos.

That means that either he is really stupid for not adjusting his plan realizing the stakes were far higher than being worth $6Bn vs being only worth $4Bn OR he realized something bigger needed to be done. I find it hard to swallow logically this was just about him thinking it was a worth risk taking to marginally (relative in terms of impact to quality of life) increase his wealth. I could see it being worth the risk if he had some other grander goal in his mind.

How would you explain him not course adjusting to being very liberal once the left made it clear they wanted to bury him? Would him not wanting to retaliate, by burying them not also align up with what all the conservative posters on this board want? I just don't see the defensibility of Trump being a snake oil salesman. It is honestly a lazy and tired trope left for the "moderates" to make.

---

I honestly think he did not believe they'd go that far. After all the other **** they gloss over for other politicians, you can't blame him for thinking they'd give up after he was out of office. But he lost. So now you're left with two options:

1. He loves America that much

2. He's a raging narcissist that, like all narcissists, is willing to burn down their entire house to prove that they're right about something important to them.

---

Yeah if the Left censors you on social media, constantly lies about you on MSM, illegally wiretaps you, trumps up charges on your closest allies (Stone and Flynn), creates a completely fabricated hoax against you to get you impeached and I'm sure a few other things as well. I know I'd be thinking oh well if I lose the presidency I bet the left will leave me alone and not try to bury me. That would be pure stupidity. If someone PROVES they will lie and weaponize the DOJ/FBI you have to believe they won't stop till they stop you.

fka ftc said:

---

The Banned said:

---

I honestly think he did not believe they'd go that far. After all the other **** they gloss over for other politicians, you can't blame him for thinking they'd give up after he was out of office. But he lost. So now you're left with two options:

1. He loves America that much

2. He's a raging narcissist that, like all narcissists, is willing to burn down their entire house to prove that they're right about something important to them.

---

He is a raging narcissist who loves America enough to burn the establishment down to end the tyranny.

Going back to Jesus, there are plenty of people who have claimed Jesus was a narcissist.

---

This is getting dumb. If Jesus was God, He wasn't a narcissist. If he wasn't, people were right to ridicule his followers. Either way, really bad analogy

fka ftc said:

---

The Banned said:

---

I honestly think he did not believe they'd go that far. After all the other **** they gloss over for other politicians, you can't blame him for thinking they'd give up after he was out of office. But he lost. So now you're left with two options:

1. He loves America that much

2. He's a raging narcissist that, like all narcissists, is willing to burn down their entire house to prove that they're right about something important to them.

---

He is a raging narcissist who loves America enough to burn the establishment down to end the tyranny.

Going back to Jesus, there are plenty of people who have claimed Jesus was a narcissist.

---

This might as well just be the official fka ftc gif now

Phatbob said:

---

Gigem314 said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

Gigem314 said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

You tell me, who does Trump see as his enemies? Because he keeps telling us himself who his enemies are, and they include conservatives, a lot of them. I get you want revenge on the left because they are corrupt, but the words and actions coming from Trump himself tell me he's not much better. I'm sorry you can't admit what he keeps telling us on a daily basis, but sometimes the enemy of your enemy is NOT your friend.

---

I'm sorry you can't see the difference between petty politics and actual destruction of things that conservatives value because your hatred of Trump outweighs your ability to reason.

---

And I'm sorry you can't see that those conservative values are indeed being attacked by both the left and this big government NY businessman.

---

And I'm sorry you're too blinded with hatred to see that real attacks from the Left through actual policy and govt overreach with establishment Republicans who chastise their own voting base are far worse than petty campaign battles.

---

It always comes back to "The most important thing is that Trump is being attacked!" I get it. It's wrong. It also doesn't justify his attacks on national conservatives nor does it make him a good person to be president.

---

Wrong. The most important thing is that conservatives are being attacked by the Left with their disastrous policies and justice system. It's not just them attacking Trump, that's only part of it.

I get it. You hate Trump's personality. He's mean. He's egotistical. He holds grudges. He's loud. He says every single thing that pops into his head when he should be more careful.

I don't care about primary season petty fights. Just get Biden out. If DeSantis is what we hope, he will play the long game and push through this. But if he's not, I'm not going to sit around whining about Trump...I'm going to vote out the real threat...the Democrats.

The Banned said:

---

Science Denier said:

---

The Banned said:

---

Science Denier said:

---

The Banned said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

Are you not going to answer? What do moderates support that aligns with Trump more than DeSantis?

---

Trump is a fighter. Outsider. Not a clean cut perfect wife, perfect children, perfect Christian politician. Rural Americans know that they are looked down on for shopping at dollar tree and walmart. They can't buy a reasonably priced truck because of bureaucrats in urban areas finding them evil. Trump talks like them. He sees a kettle he calls it black. Trump might have an Ivy league degree but you would much rather grab a beer with him then most other people. That is his likability. Yes there is a group that doesn't like him for all of those things.

Look at the Oliver Anthony song. I'd wager $50 Oliver likely would vote for Trump over DeSantis if asked. Just is hitting a different note than the Urban/Suburban college educated crowd normally hears.

---

The irony of course is Trump has lived a truly privileged and elite lifestyle his entire life. DeSantis is pure middle class and spent 20 years paying off college loans.

I understand how people get manipulated to think Trump can relate to them and cares about them but neither is true. Perception is reality though for many and it's a little sad. Trump would have made a great Roman Emperor with bread and circuses to distract the mob.

---

So what. Trump clearly can relate and resonate with middle class Americans. That isn't debatable. I can relate with people who aren't my same race, religion and socio economic status. I posses this thing called empathy. Trump is either the greatest actor of all time (30 year running gig) or he also is very gifted in empathy.

Note on Trump's likeability. He is referenced in many sitcoms. Michael Scott has a "You're fired" joke in the office. Trump is in Home Alone 2. If he wasn't generally liked or seen positively he wouldn't have kept being written into shows as references. Now that of course stopped post 2015.

---

Trump is a salesman. You've been sold. Not until you work on a sales team (primarily transactional business vs repeat customers) do you realize just how good salesman can be at hiding their contempt for their customer.

Think bud light. Until 6 months ago, that was a working man's beer. Now look at them. Bud light didn't change. They just finally stopped lying about who they are.

Desantis literally lived the life most of us on this board did. he is one of the few, if not only, politicians that didn't massively enrich themselves while in DC when he, unlike trump, had every incentive to do so.

But these are all emotional back and forths. The real argument should be policy and future outlook. Trump with 4 years fighting every indictment on the planet and who knows how many other bs schemes the Dems come up with after failing to drain the swamp, or desantis who has absolutely crushed some-ism and the dens, create a conservative safe haven for people to flee to for refuge from their blue state.

---

1. People have been going to Florida to retire for decades, well before DeSantis landed there. It's a retirement place. They have always attracted alot of the US population. Since older people tend to vote conservative, it's always been a place where more conservatives move.

2. More people are moving to Texas than Florida. I wouldn't say Abbott is "crushing it".

---

2 is just false. https://www.tamus.edu/data-science/2023/02/15/state-to-state-migration-trends-in-the-united-states/#:~:text=In%20terms%20of%20net%20migration,from%20other%20states%20in%202020.

1 is a half truth. Yes, people have been retiring there forever. No those people did not make Florida super conservative. It has very, very clearly happened under desantis. Purple to deep red in 4 years.

---

Your statement on number 2 was data from 2020. I'm looking for the article I saw that showed Texas being more, but that could have been overall job creation, as retirees moving to Florida won't be reflected in that number.

---

Here is 2022

https://www.nar.realtor/blogs/economists-outlook/where-people-moved-in-2022

---

OK. Thanks. I was wrong.

Max Miller is probably in that category.

Gigem314 said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

Gigem314 said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

Gigem314 said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

You tell me, who does Trump see as his enemies? Because he keeps telling us himself who his enemies are, and they include conservatives, a lot of them. I get you want revenge on the left because they are corrupt, but the words and actions coming from Trump himself tell me he's not much better. I'm sorry you can't admit what he keeps telling us on a daily basis, but sometimes the enemy of your enemy is NOT your friend.

---

I'm sorry you can't see the difference between petty politics and actual destruction of things that conservatives value because your hatred of Trump outweighs your ability to reason.

---

And I'm sorry you can't see that those conservative values are indeed being attacked by both the left and this big government NY businessman.

---

And I'm sorry you're too blinded with hatred to see that real attacks from the Left through actual policy and govt overreach with establishment Republicans who chastise their own voting base are far worse than petty campaign battles.

---

It always comes back to "The most important thing is that Trump is being attacked!" I get it. It's wrong. It also doesn't justify his attacks on national conservatives nor does it make him a good person to be president.

---

Wrong. The most important thing is that conservatives are being attacked by the Left with their disastrous policies and justice system. It's not just them attacking Trump, that's only part of it.

I get it. You hate Trump's personality. He's mean. He's egotistical. He holds grudges. He's loud. He says every single thing that pops into his head when he should be more careful.

I don't care about primary season petty fights. Just get Biden out. If DeSantis is what we hope, he will play the long game and push through this. But if he's not, I'm not going to sit around whining about Trump...I'm going to vote out the real threat...the Democrats.

---

You could just simply state "I don't care." Instead, you are appearing to make the argument that it's his fault that you don't care, when that's not very honest, and seems to give credence to the idea that you do want to be involved in petty fights. I have a feeling you were never going to care regardless.

The Banned said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

The Banned said:

---

I honestly think he did not believe they'd go that far. After all the other **** they gloss over for other politicians, you can't blame him for thinking they'd give up after he was out of office. But he lost. So now you're left with two options:

1. He loves America that much

2. He's a raging narcissist that, like all narcissists, is willing to burn down their entire house to prove that they're right about something important to them.

---

He is a raging narcissist who loves America enough to burn the establishment down to end the tyranny.

Going back to Jesus, there are plenty of people who have claimed Jesus was a narcissist.

---

This is getting dumb. If Jesus was God, He wasn't a narcissist. If he wasn't, people were right to ridicule his followers. Either way, really bad analogy

---

What is getting dumb is folks (not singling you out, speaking in general) who continue to say Trump is a moron, a failed business person, dumb, a serial sexist / cheater, the antichrist and many of the other things the left and their moderately concerned friends come up with to hate on Trump.

No, I do not believe Trump and Jesus are two dudes only separated by a couple thousand years. However.., there are some apt comparisons regarding how much Trump is persecuted, how many dismiss him as some raging, narcissistic kook, and how people seem to have an unnatural obsession with hating him even though most of those people are better off from him being POTUS for 4 years.

I'm surprised so many people don't understand that this is neither new, nor uncommon in the Big Leagues.

Damn, this kind of stuff went on at the city level when I used to subject myself to sewage at that level.

I love when we get to the inevitable Trump and Jesus comparison. It is as unhinged by the crazy right as the Trump and Hitler comparison.

Quote:

---

You could just simply state "I don't care." Instead, you are appearing to make the argument that it's his fault that you don't care, when that's not very honest, and seems to give credence to the idea that you do want to be involved in petty fights. I have a feeling you were never going to care regardless.

---

I'm not making any argument that it's his fault. I'm simply saying the greater enemy is the Democrats for actual policy and actions against conservatives...as opposed to equating those tangible things to petty primary politics - which I think is a false narrative the OP has been trying to push throughout this thread.

Ironically, I'm a DeSantis-first voter. He'll be my choice in the primary. But some people are so filled with Trump hatred...they can't think rationally and see the bigger issues beyond Trump.

BoydCrowder13 said:

---

I love when we get to the inevitable Trump and Jesus comparison. It is as unhinged by the crazy right as the Trump and Hitler comparison.

---

Something tells me you didn't read the post just two spots above.

If you still think its unhinged, I am good with that. Being a little unhinged has served me very, very well in life.

BoydCrowder13 said:

---

I love when we get to the inevitable Trump and Jesus comparison. It is as unhinged by the crazy right as the Trump and Hitler comparison.

---

It's amazing how much **** you just make up to try and make it fit your view. Real talent.

Quote:

---

Because the much bigger idiots are the ones persecuting him and not the ones who defended him.

Probably same sort of people who would call the 12 disciples "idiots" for following Jesus.

---

C'mon ... it's literally right here in this thread.

Science Denier said:

---

The Banned said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

Are you not going to answer? What do moderates support that aligns with Trump more than DeSantis?

---

Trump is a fighter. Outsider. Not a clean cut perfect wife, perfect children, perfect Christian politician. Rural Americans know that they are looked down on for shopping at dollar tree and walmart. They can't buy a reasonably priced truck because of bureaucrats in urban areas finding them evil. Trump talks like them. He sees a kettle he calls it black. Trump might have an Ivy league degree but you would much rather grab a beer with him then most other people. That is his likability. Yes there is a group that doesn't like him for all of those things.

Look at the Oliver Anthony song. I'd wager $50 Oliver likely would vote for Trump over DeSantis if asked. Just is hitting a different note than the Urban/Suburban college educated crowd normally hears.

---

The irony of course is Trump has lived a truly privileged and elite lifestyle his entire life. DeSantis is pure middle class and spent 20 years paying off college loans.

I understand how people get manipulated to think Trump can relate to them and cares about them but neither is true. Perception is reality though for many and it's a little sad. Trump would have made a great Roman Emperor with bread and circuses to distract the mob.

---

So what. Trump clearly can relate and resonate with middle class Americans. That isn't debatable. I can relate with people who aren't my same race, religion and socio economic status. I posses this thing called empathy. Trump is either the greatest actor of all time (30 year running gig) or he also is very gifted in empathy.

Note on Trump's likeability. He is referenced in many sitcoms. Michael Scott has a "You're fired" joke in the office. Trump is in Home Alone 2. If he wasn't generally liked or seen positively he wouldn't have kept being written into shows as references. Now that of course stopped post 2015.

---

Trump is a salesman. You've been sold. Not until you work on a sales team (primarily transactional business vs repeat customers) do you realize just how good salesman can be at hiding their contempt for their customer.

Think bud light. Until 6 months ago, that was a working man's beer. Now look at them. Bud light didn't change. They just finally stopped lying about who they are.

Desantis literally lived the life most of us on this board did. he is one of the few, if not only, politicians that didn't massively enrich themselves while in DC when he, unlike trump, had every incentive to do so.

But these are all emotional back and forths. The real argument should be policy and future outlook. Trump with 4 years fighting every indictment on the planet and who knows how many other bs schemes the Dems come up with after failing to drain the swamp, or desantis who has absolutely crushed some-ism and the dens, create a conservative safe haven for people to flee to for refuge from their blue state.

---

1. People have been going to Florida to retire for decades, well before DeSantis landed there. It's a retirement place. They have always attracted alot of the US population. Since older people tend to vote conservative, it's always been a place where more conservatives move.

2. More people are moving to Texas than Florida. I wouldn't say Abbott is "crushing it".

---

Wow, I have never seen so much ignorance in one post by a non-lefty. Uh as you said in your own words "People have been going to Florida to retire for decades" yet as early as 2000 it was a swing state. if your #1 is always true why was Fla a swing state all the way until 2016. Yet now its solidly red at all levels of state government despite being a dense high urban state. Swing and miss- again!

And more people in absolute numbers are moving to TX but its base pop is 30Mil vs 22M. So in percentage terms, a much better benchmark, Fla is faster growing. So who has DDS to where you cant make a better argument.