Doubtful they would be of any assistance. Our federal appellate courts are a mess. Too politically motivated.Stat Monitor Repairman said:
Smoke signaling for help from the 11th Cir.
Trump indicted over classified documents
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Last: 17 hrs ago by fasthorse05
Sounds like you got a high confidence level that a man under federal criminal indictment across three federal judicial districts isn't going to end up in jail. I can respect that.Im Gipper said:I thought Trump was going to jail? You finally off that obsession?Stat Monitor Repairman said:
Does the Supreme Court of the United States have the ballsack to decide the fate of Trump in the next 235-days?
What are we seeing here?
Prison? For what? Here's a hint: when a prosecutor has to invent novel uses of heretofore statutes never designd to be used in that matter, that's what lawyers call a "stretch."Stat Monitor Repairman said:Sounds like you got a high confidence level that a man under federal criminal indictment across three federal judicial districts isn't going to end up in jail. I can respect that.Im Gipper said:I thought Trump was going to jail? You finally off that obsession?Stat Monitor Repairman said:
Does the Supreme Court of the United States have the ballsack to decide the fate of Trump in the next 235-days?
What are we seeing here?
When the prosecutors hide evidence, refuse to comply with their disclosure requirements (such as Brady or Giglio material)? Any indictment which used Jan 6th Committee's materials and relied on that crap alone without parallel construction is fruit of the poisonous tree. Completely inadmissible at trial and reversible error if allowed.
Seemed clear, if maybe a bit wordy, to me...TXAggie2011 said:
Cannon denies dismissal on the case for unconstitutional vagueness with what the 11th Circuit should rule is an unconstitutional word saladYou gotta give Judge Cannon credit this opinion about whether the counts against Trump are void for vagueness is itself completely inscrutable to a native english speaker pic.twitter.com/CcdSW0qBip
— Andrew Fleischman (@ASFleischman) March 14, 2024
What's hard to follow? Smith is making adamant statements about things that are absolutely not clear in law and that have not been settled by courts. While, of course others are excused for the exact same and worse.
Shes pointing out that it isn't cut and dried. The President IS the Executive Branch. The Espionage Act was never intended to be used against a President. That's absurd on its face.
Jack Smith should be prosecuted.
Shes pointing out that it isn't cut and dried. The President IS the Executive Branch. The Espionage Act was never intended to be used against a President. That's absurd on its face.
Jack Smith should be prosecuted.
It's a joke about a run-on sentence. Chill the fork out
The Supreme Court dines on fast-food while the Trump cases bear down them.
In a time of unprecedented need for judicial heavy lifting they decide to tackle the important issue of whether public officials can block people on social media.
They gotta be careful not to wear themselves out though. Burnout is real.
Cannon repeatedly asked prosecutors to explain which official and/or agency determines "unauthorized possession" of a document. DOJ admitted NARA has no law enforcement role in assessing who--esp a former president or VP--is keeping a record without authority.
— Julie Kelly 🇺🇸 (@julie_kelly2) March 18, 2024
Plenty of debate…
Apologies for the poor screenshot in the first tweet (had eyes dilated today!) here is full order: pic.twitter.com/y1P3wzM7o6
— Julie Kelly 🇺🇸 (@julie_kelly2) March 18, 2024
Judge won't set a trial date but is now asking for jury instructions, and ordering that the jury instructions be written in a way that misstates the law. Before she's even ruled on the issue in the motion to dismiss. What is going on here?
Judge is forcing the parties to take a hard look at their case. Thats the takeaway here.
MiamiHopper said:
Judge won't set a trial date but is now asking for jury instructions, and ordering that the jury instructions be written in a way that misstates the law. Before she's even ruled on the issue in the motion to dismiss. What is going on here?
Just watch the reaction.
— Julie Kelly 🇺🇸 (@julie_kelly2) March 18, 2024
Cannon continues to force DOJ to put their cards on the table. She detected during last week’s hearing—and this is in addition to what she knows and we don’t due to secrecy rules—that prosecutors are struggling to fit Trump’s acts into Espionage… https://t.co/ccJBHQzVNG
ThunderCougarFalconBird
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Funny watching Weissman squirm and insist that the judge doing literally anything to poke at the obvious holes in the DOj's case has to lead to disqualification.
On the left is Jack Smith. On the right is Judge Cannon.
— Julie Kelly 🇺🇸 (@julie_kelly2) March 19, 2024
The untested nature of both PRA and Espionage Act as it relates to the conduct of an outgoing president then former president accused of committing a crime "the moment he left office" is in play bigly. pic.twitter.com/ZiBE2IsGcy
"On the right is Judge Cannon"
As other commenters have noted, imagine a judge asking the prosecution in a murder case to prepare jury instructions to assume that the murder took place during The Purge.
That's the nonsensical direction this is headed.
As other commenters have noted, imagine a judge asking the prosecution in a murder case to prepare jury instructions to assume that the murder took place during The Purge.
That's the nonsensical direction this is headed.
nonsensical?MiamiHopper said:
"On the right is Judge Cannon"
As other commenters have noted, imagine a judge asking the prosecution in a murder case to prepare jury instructions to assume that the murder took place during The Purge.
That's the nonsensical direction this is headed.
The judge or the original filing?
The Judge is going to have to very carefully craft an order to try to get around what the 11th Circuit already said in 2022 when Trump sued after the Mar-A-Lago raid. Or, I guess she can just choose to ignore it.jt2hunt said:nonsensical?MiamiHopper said:
"On the right is Judge Cannon"
As other commenters have noted, imagine a judge asking the prosecution in a murder case to prepare jury instructions to assume that the murder took place during The Purge.
That's the nonsensical direction this is headed.
The judge or the original filing?
If she adopts one of those two theories in any kind of order, the government will probably mandamus her at the 11th Circuit faster than her clerk can post the order online.
Quote:
We cannot discern why Trump would have an individual interest in...any of the...classified documents...Even if we assumed that Trump did declassify some or all of the documents, that would not explain why he has a personal interest in them.
Trump does not have a possessory interest in the documents at issue...he neither owns nor has a personal interest in the documents
So this is NEWS. 👀
— Katie Phang (@KatiePhang) March 21, 2024
Federal law clerks have crucial roles in the judicial ecosystem. For TWO of Judge Cannon’s law clerks to QUIT in the midst of their clerkships is wildly unusual. https://t.co/zbZgnwCX3c
No way! Two entrenched democrats quit?!rgvag11 said:So this is NEWS. 👀
— Katie Phang (@KatiePhang) March 21, 2024
Federal law clerks have crucial roles in the judicial ecosystem. For TWO of Judge Cannon’s law clerks to QUIT in the midst of their clerkships is wildly unusual. https://t.co/zbZgnwCX3c
Whatever will we all do?!
Good ****ing riddance. We need millions of them to quit and get off our dime.
Is this the only way Cannon can force Smith to address these issues of first impression directly? Because he's not even addressing the PRA and the Amy Berman Jackson precedent in the Bill Clinton sock drawer case.
Since these are question of first impression as applied to a President, need to craft jury instructions and brief them to support the verbiage selected. There are not exactly Pattern Jury Instructions available here.
Since these are question of first impression as applied to a President, need to craft jury instructions and brief them to support the verbiage selected. There are not exactly Pattern Jury Instructions available here.
ThunderCougarFalconBird
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long story short on that: nothing untoward going on.rgvag11 said:So this is NEWS. 👀
— Katie Phang (@KatiePhang) March 21, 2024
Federal law clerks have crucial roles in the judicial ecosystem. For TWO of Judge Cannon’s law clerks to QUIT in the midst of their clerkships is wildly unusual. https://t.co/zbZgnwCX3c
She's currently got her 2 usual clerks plus 2 extra temp clerks - almost assuredly specifically because of this case.
I recall at the height of the Enron case, bankruptcy judge Gonzalez had something like 12 clerks working for him (BK judges usually either get 1 clerk + 1 secretary or 2 clerks and 0 secretary).
Hmm. Maybe Cannon is leaning towards granting at least in part a motion to dismiss?Quote:
She's currently got her 2 usual clerks plus 2 extra temp clerks - almost assuredly specifically because of this case.
Leaning on the scale with both hands pressing down.aggiehawg said:Hmm. Maybe Cannon is leaning towards granting at least in part a motion to dismiss?Quote:
She's currently got her 2 usual clerks plus 2 extra temp clerks - almost assuredly specifically because of this case.
The records for which Trump has been charged are agency records. They are subject to FRA, not the PRA, and unequivocally are not personal records. Also, the Judicial Watch v. Clinton case is not a precedent here. It's not close. And yes, there are pattern jury instructions for the crimes that Trump has been charged with. But I guess Cannon doesn't like Trump's chances with those.aggiehawg said:
Is this the only way Cannon can force Smith to address these issues of first impression directly? Because he's not even addressing the PRA and the Amy Berman Jackson precedent in the Bill Clinton sock drawer case.
Since these are question of first impression as applied to a President, need to craft jury instructions and brief them to support the verbiage selected. There are not exactly Pattern Jury Instructions available here.
Quote:
No way! Two entrenched democrats quit?!
Why wouid Cannon hire "extended democrats" as clerks?
(Btw, I'll wait for better sourcing before believing this story is true)
I'm Gipper
How do you know? They are sealed and that's part of the argument over who gets to see them. Did either grand jury see them? The one in DC and then the one hastily convened in Florida?MiamiHopper said:The records for which Trump has been charged are agency records. They are subject to FRA, not the PRA, and unequivocally are not personal records. Also, the Judicial Watch v. Clinton case is not a precedent here. It's not close. And yes, there are pattern jury instructions for the crimes that Trump has been charged with. But I guess Cannon doesn't like Trump's chances with those.aggiehawg said:
Is this the only way Cannon can force Smith to address these issues of first impression directly? Because he's not even addressing the PRA and the Amy Berman Jackson precedent in the Bill Clinton sock drawer case.
Since these are question of first impression as applied to a President, need to craft jury instructions and brief them to support the verbiage selected. There are not exactly Pattern Jury Instructions available here.
ThunderCougarFalconBird
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there are updates in the story. One quit because she had a baby. The other quit for reasons yet unknown. The author of the article solicited intel and the responses widely panned any suggestion of anything remotely nefarious going on with Judge Cannon.Im Gipper said:Quote:
No way! Two entrenched democrats quit?!
Why wouid Cannon hire "extended democrats" as clerks?
(Btw, I'll wait for better sourcing before believing this story is true)
ThunderCougarFalconBird
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maybe. I'm honestly surprised that she hasn't just done the usual article III judge thing, taken it all under advisement, and then sat on it until the case no longer has political value (I.e. issue orders/opinions after the election).aggiehawg said:Hmm. Maybe Cannon is leaning towards granting at least in part a motion to dismiss?Quote:
She's currently got her 2 usual clerks plus 2 extra temp clerks - almost assuredly specifically because of this case.
Thanks for the update.
Although I still hope Cannon holds Smith's feet to the fire. He keeps playing games.
Although I still hope Cannon holds Smith's feet to the fire. He keeps playing games.
Some of the agencies are listed in the indictment. I don't know if it's an exhaustive list.
Oh you know Smith would go the 11th Circuit for a writ of mandamus against her. Judge Sullivan played several rounds on mandamus with the DC Circuit telling him to dismiss the Flynn case. Sullivan just gave them the bird repeatedly.ThunderCougarFalconBird said:maybe. I'm honestly surprised that she hasn't just done the usual article III judge thing, taken it all under advisement, and then sat on it until the case no longer has political value (I.e. issue orders/opinions after the election).aggiehawg said:Hmm. Maybe Cannon is leaning towards granting at least in part a motion to dismiss?Quote:
She's currently got her 2 usual clerks plus 2 extra temp clerks - almost assuredly specifically because of this case.
Are they listed in the statement of probable cause supporting the search warrant, though? I have never seen that.MiamiHopper said:
Some of the agencies are listed in the indictment. I don't know if it's an exhaustive list.
Have you? Because I would love to read that if you could link it. Unredacted version of course.
TIA.
ThunderCougarFalconBird
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she'd just do the same thing.aggiehawg said:Oh you know Smith would go the 11th Circuit for a writ of mandamus against her. Judge Sullivan played several rounds on mandamus with the DC Circuit telling him to dismiss the Flynn case. Sullivan just gave them the bird repeatedly.ThunderCougarFalconBird said:maybe. I'm honestly surprised that she hasn't just done the usual article III judge thing, taken it all under advisement, and then sat on it until the case no longer has political value (I.e. issue orders/opinions after the election).aggiehawg said:Hmm. Maybe Cannon is leaning towards granting at least in part a motion to dismiss?Quote:
She's currently got her 2 usual clerks plus 2 extra temp clerks - almost assuredly specifically because of this case.
What are they going to to? Get a writ from the 11th circuit because it's obvious she's been thinking about it too long because she's just a woman?
They're not listed in the unredacted parts of the search warrant. Some might be redacted though. Not sure if this an issue. The documents he was charged with are vaguely described in the indictment. You'll have to do a little sleuthing to put together what you can about who created each document and who owns the information contained in it.aggiehawg said:Are they listed in the statement of probable cause supporting the search warrant, though? I have never seen that.MiamiHopper said:
Some of the agencies are listed in the indictment. I don't know if it's an exhaustive list.
Have you? Because I would love to read that if you could link it. Unredacted version of course.
TIA.
ThunderCougarFalconBird said:maybe. I'm honestly surprised that she hasn't just done the usual article III judge thing, taken it all under advisement, and then sat on it until the case no longer has political value (I.e. issue orders/opinions after the election).aggiehawg said:Hmm. Maybe Cannon is leaning towards granting at least in part a motion to dismiss?Quote:
She's currently got her 2 usual clerks plus 2 extra temp clerks - almost assuredly specifically because of this case.
There are 7 motions that were filed in February that still aren't even docketed a month later because of the special redaction process she put in place for this case.
Oh, she's certainly sitting on things.
That would be a NO. Defense having to sleuth to find Brady material. Plus, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE EXECUTIVE AGENCIES ARE PART OF THE ARTICLE II CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITIES OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH.Quote:
Not sure if this an issue. The documents he was charged with are vaguely described in the indictment. You'll have to do a little sleuthing to put together what you can about who created each document and who owns the information contained in it.
Let's go back over that pesky separation of powers issue, shall we?
On which planet does any Executive Branch agency is authorized to become POTUS? With all of the powers afforded thereto?
No where. Either POTUS has plenary power or that office does not.
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