Some Junkie Cosmonaut said:

---

boboguitar said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

LMCane said:

---

LOL I remember when Trump had his most important first decision to make as the primary nominee in 2016 and chose...

Mike Pence.

who MAGA loved.

I'm old enough to remember Trump praising Pence nearly every single press conference they had together. I'm old enough to remember when Trump APPOINTED PENCE THE POINT MAN ON ADMINISTRATION COVID RESPONSE. I remember when Donald Trump chose to run for re-election with Mike Pence in 2020.

That was less than 3 years ago.

Pence role in Trump indictment sparks fresh tensions in 2024 race
Story by Marianne LeVine, Josh Dawsey, Michael Scherer 8h ago
Jordan Gale for The Washington Post

Former vice president Mike Pence's extensive grand jury testimony, a historic rebuke of a former president detailed in the sweeping indictment of Donald Trump released this week, sparked new tensions in the Republican presidential race, with the once-loyal Pence sharpening his criticism of his former running mate and drawing stern blowback in his long-shot bid.

The day after the Justice Department released the 45-page indictment that detailed Trump's unsuccessful efforts to pressure Pence to reverse his 2020 loss, Pence told reporters in Indiana that the former president was "surrounded by a group of crackpot lawyers that kept telling him what his itching ears wanted to hear."

Shortly after the indictment was released Tuesday, the former vice president who was referenced repeatedly in the charging document issued a statement saying that Trump had put himself over the Constitution and that his rival's "candidacy means more talk about January 6th and more distractions."

Trump, after taking a comparatively softer tone about Pence at a rally over the weekend, criticized Pence on his Truth Social website Wednesday, noting the former vice president's struggles to gain traction in the race. "I feel badly for Mike Pence, who is attracting no crowds, enthusiasm, or loyalty from people who, as a member of the Trump Administration, should be loving him," he wrote.

The exchange marked the latest chapter in a remarkable fissure between the two men, whose political trajectories have diverted sharply since Jan. 6, 2021, when a pro-Trump mob violently stormed the U.S. Capitol in an attempt to interrupt the certification of the 2020 presidential election, over which Pence presided. Until that day, Pence had largely been a loyal backer of Trump.

---

I cannot tell if you are parroting a bad Madonna song with "I remember" or just rambling somewhat incoherent regarding Trump and Pence.

Pence cheering on the political persecution of Trump by a sitting POTUS who has weaponized the DOJ against their political enemies is an automatic disqualifier for Pence. What a shameful man. Lump him in with Barr and other spineless traitors whose TDS seems to be amplified by what can only be jealousy of Trump and his accomplishments.

---

Pence and Barr correctly chose the constitution over a fascist failed dictator.

---

You really should avoid talking politics. I'm not a Trumper but constantly posting gibberish like this while supporting the current administration is just complete insanity.

---

He's literally being charged and investigated for trying to usurp the election and install himself as president. fascist failed dictator is a very appropriate label for Trump.

Democrats / Liberals and Intellectual Dishonesty are things that don't just go together, they simply are together.

Not sure I have ever heard a liberal speak honestly on anything… ever.

boboguitar said:

---

I guess when you believe everything Trump says, everything else seems like constant lying.

---

What is with you guys? You do understand you can look at this situation from a neutral perspective, right?

I can absolutely hate Trump and still realize this is a bunch of BS.

Try more critical thinking and less parroting.

boboguitar said:

---

I guess when you believe everything Trump says, everything else seems like constant lying.

---

I guess Dems actually lying and Trump correctly stating Russia collusion was a hoax, Hillary is a criminal, Biden was influence peddling with his son, and the election was rigged are just facts your brain cannot process.

If you need to believe lib lies to cope with life, you do you.

Espionage

Fraud

Conspiracy

They've charged Trump with everything short of terrorism under the USA Patriot Act.

Will we see that next?

boboguitar said:

---

Some Junkie Cosmonaut said:

---

boboguitar said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

LMCane said:

---

LOL I remember when Trump had his most important first decision to make as the primary nominee in 2016 and chose...

Mike Pence.

who MAGA loved.

I'm old enough to remember Trump praising Pence nearly every single press conference they had together. I'm old enough to remember when Trump APPOINTED PENCE THE POINT MAN ON ADMINISTRATION COVID RESPONSE. I remember when Donald Trump chose to run for re-election with Mike Pence in 2020.

That was less than 3 years ago.

Pence role in Trump indictment sparks fresh tensions in 2024 race
Story by Marianne LeVine, Josh Dawsey, Michael Scherer 8h ago
Jordan Gale for The Washington Post

Former vice president Mike Pence's extensive grand jury testimony, a historic rebuke of a former president detailed in the sweeping indictment of Donald Trump released this week, sparked new tensions in the Republican presidential race, with the once-loyal Pence sharpening his criticism of his former running mate and drawing stern blowback in his long-shot bid.

The day after the Justice Department released the 45-page indictment that detailed Trump's unsuccessful efforts to pressure Pence to reverse his 2020 loss, Pence told reporters in Indiana that the former president was "surrounded by a group of crackpot lawyers that kept telling him what his itching ears wanted to hear."

Shortly after the indictment was released Tuesday, the former vice president who was referenced repeatedly in the charging document issued a statement saying that Trump had put himself over the Constitution and that his rival's "candidacy means more talk about January 6th and more distractions."

Trump, after taking a comparatively softer tone about Pence at a rally over the weekend, criticized Pence on his Truth Social website Wednesday, noting the former vice president's struggles to gain traction in the race. "I feel badly for Mike Pence, who is attracting no crowds, enthusiasm, or loyalty from people who, as a member of the Trump Administration, should be loving him," he wrote.

The exchange marked the latest chapter in a remarkable fissure between the two men, whose political trajectories have diverted sharply since Jan. 6, 2021, when a pro-Trump mob violently stormed the U.S. Capitol in an attempt to interrupt the certification of the 2020 presidential election, over which Pence presided. Until that day, Pence had largely been a loyal backer of Trump.

---

I cannot tell if you are parroting a bad Madonna song with "I remember" or just rambling somewhat incoherent regarding Trump and Pence.

Pence cheering on the political persecution of Trump by a sitting POTUS who has weaponized the DOJ against their political enemies is an automatic disqualifier for Pence. What a shameful man. Lump him in with Barr and other spineless traitors whose TDS seems to be amplified by what can only be jealousy of Trump and his accomplishments.

---

Pence and Barr correctly chose the constitution over a fascist failed dictator.

---

You really should avoid talking politics. I'm not a Trumper but constantly posting gibberish like this while supporting the current administration is just complete insanity.

---

He's literally being charged and investigated for trying to usurp the election and install himself as president. fascist failed dictator is a very appropriate label for Trump.

---

Being charged with something doesn't make it real. You are aware of this, yes?

Will they undertake to try and put Trump in jail for contempt of court?

Would they undertake to put Trump's legal counsel in jail for contempt of court?

After what we've just seen, is it fair and reasonable to say that nothing is off the table at this point?

If Trump has been indicted on the basis of political speech (which is the most protected form of speech);

What is to prevent the judge and prosecutors from taking action against Trump's legal counsel for making the same arguments in open court?

Is it constitutional to charge the then sitting president of the United States with conspiracy to obstruct a congressional proceeding in an Article III court when Congress has the enumerated power to resolve the issue in an Article I court?

If a district court has plenary power to determine its own jurisdiction;

Should the district courts in both of these cases conduct a preliminary inquiry as to the constitutional basis to hear the claims brought before the court?

Ya'll don't get in a mad rush to answer these questions now.

We got the next 3-years or so to flesh these issues out.

So nobody get excited and spill their coffee on their keyboard or anything like that.

No one wants to answer them because they aren't relevant to the topic at hand, and it appears you're just spamming the board now with five replies in a row when you could have just edited your first post and put them all in one post. This thread should be for the M-A-L documents case only.

Sure Jan.

boboguitar said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

LMCane said:

---

LOL I remember when Trump had his most important first decision to make as the primary nominee in 2016 and chose...

Mike Pence.

who MAGA loved.

I'm old enough to remember Trump praising Pence nearly every single press conference they had together. I'm old enough to remember when Trump APPOINTED PENCE THE POINT MAN ON ADMINISTRATION COVID RESPONSE. I remember when Donald Trump chose to run for re-election with Mike Pence in 2020.

That was less than 3 years ago.

Pence role in Trump indictment sparks fresh tensions in 2024 race
Story by Marianne LeVine, Josh Dawsey, Michael Scherer 8h ago
Jordan Gale for The Washington Post

Former vice president Mike Pence's extensive grand jury testimony, a historic rebuke of a former president detailed in the sweeping indictment of Donald Trump released this week, sparked new tensions in the Republican presidential race, with the once-loyal Pence sharpening his criticism of his former running mate and drawing stern blowback in his long-shot bid.

The day after the Justice Department released the 45-page indictment that detailed Trump's unsuccessful efforts to pressure Pence to reverse his 2020 loss, Pence told reporters in Indiana that the former president was "surrounded by a group of crackpot lawyers that kept telling him what his itching ears wanted to hear."

Shortly after the indictment was released Tuesday, the former vice president who was referenced repeatedly in the charging document issued a statement saying that Trump had put himself over the Constitution and that his rival's "candidacy means more talk about January 6th and more distractions."

Trump, after taking a comparatively softer tone about Pence at a rally over the weekend, criticized Pence on his Truth Social website Wednesday, noting the former vice president's struggles to gain traction in the race. "I feel badly for Mike Pence, who is attracting no crowds, enthusiasm, or loyalty from people who, as a member of the Trump Administration, should be loving him," he wrote.

The exchange marked the latest chapter in a remarkable fissure between the two men, whose political trajectories have diverted sharply since Jan. 6, 2021, when a pro-Trump mob violently stormed the U.S. Capitol in an attempt to interrupt the certification of the 2020 presidential election, over which Pence presided. Until that day, Pence had largely been a loyal backer of Trump.

---

I cannot tell if you are parroting a bad Madonna song with "I remember" or just rambling somewhat incoherent regarding Trump and Pence.

Pence cheering on the political persecution of Trump by a sitting POTUS who has weaponized the DOJ against their political enemies is an automatic disqualifier for Pence. What a shameful man. Lump him in with Barr and other spineless traitors whose TDS seems to be amplified by what can only be jealousy of Trump and his accomplishments.

---

Pence and Barr correctly chose the constitution over a fascist failed dictator.

---

What does any of this have to do with Biden?

Judge CANNON comes out swinging at special counsel this morning, striking two of prosecutors' sealed filings and demanding an explanation of "the legal propriety of using an out-of-district grand jury proceeding to continue to investigate" the docs case https://t.co/jawTpEvPWq pic.twitter.com/OciEt2vJql

— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) August 7, 2023

aggiehawg and other alluded to this earlier in the thread. D. DC grand jury to investigate So. D. Fla case? Jack Smith has some explaining to do!

Jack Smith is not seeking justice, nor is he concerned with the rule of law or the Constitution. he will continue to use his power to crush Donald Trump.

Im Gipper said:

---

Judge CANNON comes out swinging at special counsel this morning, striking two of prosecutors' sealed filings and demanding an explanation of "the legal propriety of using an out-of-district grand jury proceeding to continue to investigate" the docs case https://t.co/jawTpEvPWq pic.twitter.com/OciEt2vJql

— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) August 7, 2023

aggiehawg and other alluded to this earlier in the thread. D. DC grand jury to investigate So. D. Fla case? Jack Smith has some explaining to do!

---

From what I understand, it was a Florida grand jury that investigated the Florida case.

There is a DC grand jury investigating document cases that are not covered by the Florida document case.

Two questions, based on your understanding:

One, which District, other than Southern District of Florida, is investigating this case? And two, how is that appropriate?

boboguitar said:

---

Im Gipper said:

---

Judge CANNON comes out swinging at special counsel this morning, striking two of prosecutors' sealed filings and demanding an explanation of "the legal propriety of using an out-of-district grand jury proceeding to continue to investigate" the docs case https://t.co/jawTpEvPWq pic.twitter.com/OciEt2vJql

— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) August 7, 2023

aggiehawg and other alluded to this earlier in the thread. D. DC grand jury to investigate So. D. Fla case? Jack Smith has some explaining to do!

---

From what I understand, it was a Florida grand jury that investigated the Florida case.

There is a DC grand jury investigating document cases that are not covered by the Florida document case.

---

Oh...well, then, why don't you tell that to the judge. Apparently you have information that he doesn't have...

fka ftc said:

---

Democrats / Liberals and Intellectual Dishonesty are things that don't just go together, they simply are together.

Not sure I have ever heard a liberal speak honestly on anything… ever.

---

If you replace liberal with leftist progressive I would agree. But I also believe the description of "liberal" has been usurped by the leftist progressives in order to obfuscate the truth.

Liberals believe in free speech, basic civil liberties, freedom of association, etc. I disagree politically with most liberals as they in general lean toward social programs that inevitably fail. Liberals also espouse some form of a utopian society which is unachievable.

Im Gipper said:

---

Two questions, based on your understanding:

One, which District, other than Southern District of Florida, is investigating this case? And two, how is that appropriate?

---

The DC grand jury, as far as I've always understood it, was investigating documents issues generally. And that's appropriate considering their very real nexus to D.C. and the "multi-juridictionality" of the general issue.

The charges in the Florida case were brought by a grand jury in the Southern District of Florida. They would have, obviously, been presented with evidence and decided to return the true bill and indict Trump.

Of course, her order here raises a question not about the previous use, but the continued use of a D.C. grand jury to investigate matters related to the case in Florida after the indictment.


We don't really know what Cannon is referring to here considering she dropped that in without the larger context. (And kind of strange that a judge would reveal the existence/continued operation of a grand jury unilaterally in an order like she did this morning.)

JUST IN: Trump's lawyers say they want Judge Cannon to approve the reestablishment of a SCIF at Mar-a-Lago, saying it would be more cost-effective than sending Trump (and his USSS detail) to remote facilities.https://t.co/P4oPv8agBz

— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) August 9, 2023

If Team Trump allows Feds to monitor the security of the SCIF, no reason not to agree.



Which means they won't. LOL

So let me see if I understand this correctly:

Hunter Biden created companies to extort foreign businesses and governments and his dad, the VP, was in on it.

Trump got indicted

President Obama appointed Hunters business partners to government positions after they helped Hunter.

Trump got indicted.

Biden withheld aid from Ukraine so they'd fire a prosecutor and bragged about it on video.

Trump got indicted.

Hillary had 30,000 emails destroyed and deleted after the FBI requested them.

Trump got indicted.

Hillary, Obama, clapper, Comey, and many others conspired a plan to spy on Trump and have him investigated for a crime they created.

Trump got indicted.

The Lincoln Project members coerced people to sue Trump so they could smear his name.

Trump got indicted.

An overwhelming majority of Congress has become millionaires while in office and Trump didn't take a single penny.

Trump got indicted.

It appears every time someone commits a crime in DC, Trump pays the penalty for it.

Travis X tweet

Dang it Joe

— 🇺🇸Travis🇺🇸 (@Travis_in_Flint) August 9, 2023

will25u said:

---

MouthBQ98 said:

---

Republicans need to start charging and indicting anybody they possibly can themselves in friendly venues. Gloves are off. Civility is gone.

---

How, when the DOJ is corrupt?

---

Holy hell.

Hearing over the protective order today:

(Windom is DoJ attorney, Lauro is Trump attorney)

CHUTKAN is not buying Windom's argument to subject "non-sensitive" documents to the protective order. Most of Windom's arguments, she says, are "broad" but don't make clear why that material needs a special protection.

— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) August 11, 2023

WINDOM again references Butina case. But Chutkan says it's not comparable, says wryly that that case "Now seems so small and quiet."

"There was no argument from the defense there that the defendant in that case needed to speak," she says.

— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) August 11, 2023

LAURO, again: "President Trump will scrupulously abide by his conditions of release."

— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) August 11, 2023

CHUTKAN says defense definition is too broad.

"It allows just about anybody — I live in Washington. Anyone is a consultant." She notes language could permit unindicted coconspirators to see discovery.

— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) August 11, 2023

So based on these tweets, it appears she is not going to require "non-sensitive" material to subject to the protective order despite DoJ wanting that , and is going to limit who can see sensitive material more than Trump wanted.

Its first hearing, but seems Chutkan is just doing her job at this point. That will change I'm sure, she's a lib. Can't help themselves!

Quote:

---

Its first hearing, but seems Chutkan is just doing her job at this point. That will change I'm sure, she's a lib. Can't help themselves!

---

Regardless of any of these issues, an ethical judge would recuse herself. Chutkan is not ethical and is not seeking justice.

This is stalinist.

I said earlier that based on statements she made in J6 opinion she should recuse. Why hasn't Team Trump filed that motion yet? You'd think something Stalinist would be something they want to address immediately, no?

Im Gipper said:

---

I said earlier that based on statements she made in J6 opinion she should recuse. Why hasn't Team Trump filed that motion yet? You'd think something Stalinist would be something they want to address immediately, no?

---

I'm not weighing in on that. The task for the defense is beyond insurmountable.. This is deliberate use of the levers of power to destroy a political rival. There is no legal tool available to stop it.

It is so far outside of what the founding fathers envisioned because they could not forssee such a large band of godless anti-Americans ever having so much power within our government.

Sadly, this government is a reflection of the American people. We are in a terminal condition.

Im Gipper said:

---

I said earlier that based on statements she made in J6 opinion she should recuse. Why hasn't Team Trump filed that motion yet? You'd think something Stalinist would be something they want to address immediately, no?

---

A (correct) previous ruling and opinion by a judge isn't really grounds for asking for that judge's recusal. This is one of the many theories that's been thrown around in this case and others that finds a lot more grounding in social media than the law.

They may yet ask for her recusal, but maybe take your confusion as to why they've not done so yet as an indication of its legal viability.

Quote:

---

A (correct) previous ruling and opinion by a judge isn't really grounds for asking for that judge's recusal.

---

Say what now?

Statement made by a judge showing bias and prejudging can absolutely be grounds for recusal. You may disagree on whether it applies here, but your statement is just categorially false.

Im Gipper said:

---

Quote:

---

A (correct) previous ruling and opinion by a judge isn't really grounds for asking for that judge's recusal.

---

Say what now?

Statement made by a judge showing bias and prejudging can absolutely be grounds for recusal. You may disagree on whether it applies here, but your statement is just categorially false.

---

Ok. I'll play along. What did you believe was the most biased and prejudicial statement she made in her opinion on privilege?

FireAg said:

---

If Ds are secretly pushing for Trump to be the R nominee, why do they keep trying to falsely imprison him?

Makes no sense…

They know they can't steal the election the same way twice…

---

This is my take. For a guy they say is easily beat, they sure are scared ****less of him.