Yeah, I really like paying higher prices for gas, rent, insurance, food, etc. And I feel really secure with our open borders. And I'm really glad we're giving away our hard earned tax dollars to Ukraine to help them fight a war. Yeah Trump, really sucked.

Read the part explaining the charges..

The 2020 election was ultimately about whether America wanted to get ****ed by a guy in a red hat or get ****ed by a guy with dementia.

What a time to be alive!

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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The 2020 election was ultimately about whether America wanted to get ****ed by a guy in a red hat or get ****ed by a guy with dementia.

What a time t be alive!

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So what will the 2024 election be about? Whether America wants a guy being held in prison or a guy in the hospital trying to overcome his dementia.

Andrew C McCarthy had an excellent article in National Review: https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/06/why-trumps-witch-hunt-cries-ring-hollow-in-face-of-doj-indictment/

The title, Why Trump's 'Witch Hunt' Cries Ring Hollow in Face of DOJ Indictment

In the article, McCarthy wries about a meeting between Trump and his attorneys to decide how to handle the subpoena for the classified documents. To the lawyers, handling the subpoena was that of hand the documents over. Trump had different ideas about what it means to "handle" a subponea:

Quote:

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Trump turned the conversation to a favorite obsession, Hillary Clinton. Specifically, he spoke of a lawyer who had represented her when she was in a similar pickle: the recipient of a subpoena (hers was from Congress) demanding that she turn over emails from her home-brew, nongovernment, nonsecure server system. Humiliating emails she had no intention of surrendering.

According to Trump, then, she got herself a lawyer who would help her, you know, handle the subpoena. To the former president, this was the very model of legal acumen. Referring to this exemplary lawyer, Trump advised his two attorneys:

No Longer President Trump said:

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He was great, he did a great job. You know what? He said, he said that it that it was him. That he was the one who deleted all of her emails, the 30,000 emails, because they basically dealt with her scheduling and her going to the gym and her having beauty appointments. And he was great. And he, so she didn't get into any trouble because he said he was the one who deleted them.

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And the evidence for this, as McCarthy points out, comes from Trump's own lawyers:

Quote:

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No, the evidence comes from Trump's lawyers. The people who were trying to minimize his criminal exposure and push back against his destructive tendencies. The people who were trying to help him.

...

It's the Trump pattern: Good people try to help wrestle his demons, he gets his kicks out of making unsavory acts of loyalty the price of prestigious jobs, they finally realize the price is too high usually too late for their own good and he trashes them as they make their quietus. Rinse and repeat.

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In particular, it was Corcoran. As McCarthy wrote:

Quote:

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Corcoran was not trying to hurt Trump, even though Trump had thought nothing of putting the lawyer's livelihood at risk. Corcoran provided the lurid testimony reflected in the indictment including Trump's suggestions that he falsely tell the FBI and grand jury that he did not have documents marked classified, and that he "pluck" out of a package of documents responsive to the subpoena "anything really bad in there" because the law required him to, not because he wanted to.

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McCarthy goes on to say that the problem is not that Trump is being unfairly prosecuted when Hillary, Biden, and others got away with it. Rather:

Quote:

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The problem is that Clinton, Berger, Petraeus, and (soon) Biden get a pass.

It's not that Trump is owed a pass. It's that every official who is entrusted with access to the nation's secrets, and who then betrays that trust by willful law violations and cover-ups, should be prosecuted. Every . . . single . . . one.

And none of them has any business near power.

...

The fix for a two-tiered justice system is not equal injustice under the law.

...

If you tell me I need to look the other way on that because Hillary Clinton got a pass, I respectfully suggest that you've lost your way.

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Andrew McCarthy has clearly been compromised by the deep State

Trump was a good president and our economy , security, etc. were great. Other than the woke democrat cities and states where there are problems. (They have destroyed major cities and states.) Then the *****s let loose a virus to hurt the world and used that against Trump. The deep state lied from the beginning with Obama, Biden, Clinton, FBI, etc. about Russia.

If anyone believes that Trump was a bad guy then your logic is biased. Trump did nothing wrong. If you do not like his mannerism then you must be like the proverbial person who says do not confuse me with the facts.

Houstonag said:

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Trump was a good president and our economy , security, etc. were great. Other than the woke democrat cities and states where there are problems. (They have destroyed major cities and states.) Then the *****s let loose a virus to hurt the world and used that against Trump. The deep state lied from the beginning with Obama, Biden, Clinton, FBI, etc. about Russia.

If anyone believes that Trump was a bad guy then your logic is biased. Trump did nothing wrong. If you do not like his mannerism then you must be like the proverbial person who says do not confuse me with the facts.

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Houstonag said:

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Trump was a good president and our economy , security, etc. were great. Other than the woke democrat cities and states where there are problems. (They have destroyed major cities and states.) Then the *****s let loose a virus to hurt the world and used that against Trump. The deep state lied from the beginning with Obama, Biden, Clinton, FBI, etc. about Russia.

If anyone believes that Trump was a bad guy then your logic is biased. Trump did nothing wrong. If you do not like his mannerism then you must be like the proverbial person who says do not confuse me with the facts.

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This guy!

Houstonag said:

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Trump was a good president and our economy , security, etc. were great. Other than the woke democrat cities and states where there are problems. (They have destroyed major cities and states.) Then the *****s let loose a virus to hurt the world and used that against Trump. The deep state lied from the beginning with Obama, Biden, Clinton, FBI, etc. about Russia.

If anyone believes that Trump was a bad guy then your logic is biased. Trump did nothing wrong. If you do not like his mannerism then you must be like the proverbial person who says do not confuse me with the facts.

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The majority of people have based their opinion of Trump on what they have read and heard through main stream media. We should all be a little smarter than that but unfortunately too many folks take it as gospel.

Manhattan said:

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The allegation is Biden got $5-$10mm? Okay, lock him up, now to Trump and the Kushner's two beez.

As for the gun application… there are probably thousands of people on this very site who smoke marijuana and have lied on a gun application.

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The $5MM is just one transaction. Probably are many. If this country still exists the DOJ should be vigorously investigating this and the media and people should be demanding it. They aren't. Our days are numbered.

What did they get paid for? They have no business expertise. Trump has actually run businesses.

So you're ok with Hunter Biden having committed a felony on his application just because he might not be the only one.

6 years of impeachments, lies, FBI leaks, investigations, false affidavits, perjuries, we got 'im nows, indictments, etc, etc, etc are finally achieving their objective in weak minds. They are thrilled to hear people say, "It's time to move on from Donald Trump!"

That's part of the plan. Trump just setting up these bugs to Zap.

Charpie said:

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Nah. I'll take Trump in his own words telling staffers that he should have declassified the docs when he was President and he didn't.

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So your basing your opinion of Trump off this one accusation?

BMX Bandit said:

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That's part of the plan. Trump just setting up these bugs to Zap.

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Proven Warrior!

It seems Trumps ego got in the way and blinded him to the fact that there are two sets of justice now, one for conservatives and one for leftists. This despite the fact that he was subjected to it during his presidency.

He thought that because Hillary broke the law and got away with it, he could too, despite knowing how corrupt the left is. If this were a Dem pres and conservative DOJ, the raid would not have taken place and the whole matter would have dropped.

I totally get it. Pride and anger is a big motivator.

The country is irrevocably broken. All the radical liberals in this thread celebrating this are simply more proof of that.

Charpie said:

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And the way he acts…and the way he's been caught on tape multiple times..yup

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The way he acts……lol
Well maybe they'll get him this time. After all the 3rd time is the charm. Or is it the 4th…..or 8th?

From 2018, Real Clear Politics:

Quote:

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In the middle of directing the difficult task of transferring the historically important records of the Obama administration into the National Archives, the archivist in charge, David Ferriero, ran into a serious problem: A lot of key records are missing.

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Quote:

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And yet the accumulation of recent congressional testimony has made it clear that the Obama administration itself engaged in the wholesale destruction and "loss" of tens of thousands of government records covered under the act as well as the intentional evasion of the government records recording system by engaging in private email exchanges. So far, former President Obama, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, former Attorney General Lynch and several EPA officials have been named as offenders. The IRS suffered record "losses" as well. Former federal prosecutor Andrew McCarthy called it "an unauthorized private communications system for official business for the patent purpose of defeating federal record-keeping and disclosure laws."

Clearly, America's National Archives is facing the first major challenge to its historic role in preserving the records of the United States. What good is the National Archives administering a presidential library, like the planned Obama library in Chicago, if it is missing critical records of interest to scholars? And what's to prevent evasion of the entire federal records system by subsequent administrations to suit current politics rather than serve scholars for centuries to come?

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Quote:

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And marginalia may be the key to solving the puzzle of just what the late Sandy Berger, acting as former President Bill Clinton's representative, was destroying during his 2005 trips into the National Archives, where he stuffed papers into his clothing. Berger only got away with this twice before archive personnel kept tabs on him, but the first trips involved as yet uncatalogued material so no one really knows what he took. But there seemed to be copies in the archive of everything they caught him with. And archival libraries dependent upon physical papers are vulnerable.

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Quote:

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Berger was supposedly reviewing records for a Clinton response to the 9/11 Commission's considerations of mistakes made leading up to the attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Dean Emeritus of Boston University Law School Ronald Cass wonders if there was telling marginalia by Clinton or others on some of these documents that were not on the file copies. The Clintons seemed to have a longstanding problem with records, since the disappearance in 1994 and reappearance in 1996 of the subpoenaed Rose Law Firm files in the Clintons' private White House quarters.

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LINK

Back to Trump.

Quote:

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The Wall Street Journal editors provide more commentary on the relevant laws.

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The indictment levels 37 charges against Mr. Trump that are related to his handling of classified documents, including at his Mar-a-Lago club, since he left the White House. Thirty-one of the counts are for violating the ancient and seldom-enforced Espionage Act for the "willful retention of national defense information."

But it's striking, and legally notable, that the indictment never mentions the Presidential Records Act (PRA) that allows a President access to documents, both classified and unclassified, once he leaves office. It allows for good-faith negotiation with the National Archives. Yet the indictment assumes that Pres. Trump had no right to take any classified documents.

This doesn't fit the spirit or letter of the PRA, which was written by Congress to recognize that such documents had previously been the property of former Presidents. If the Espionage Act means Presidents can't retain any classified documents, then the PRA is all but meaningless. This will be part of Trump's defense.

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WSJ

Logos Stick said:

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It seems Trumps ego got in the way and blinded him to the fact that there are two sets of justice now, one for conservatives and one for leftists. This despite the fact that he was subjected to it during his presidency.

He thought that because Hillary broke the law and got away with it, he could too, despite knowing how corrupt the left is. If this were a Dem pres and conservative DOJ, the raid would not have taken place and the whole matter would have dropped.

I totally get it. Pride and anger is a big motivator.

The country is irrevocably broken. All the radical liberals in this thread celebrating this are simply more proof of that.

---

this situation right now is the reason Hillary wasn't prosecuted, she would have been acquitted and you wouldn't be able to use the Hillary defense right now.

So trump should have sued when he got subpoenaed and argued this then, instead of obstructing justice.

Manhattan said:

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Logos Stick said:

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It seems Trumps ego got in the way and blinded him to the fact that there are two sets of justice now, one for conservatives and one for leftists. This despite the fact that he was subjected to it during his presidency.

He thought that because Hillary broke the law and got away with it, he could too, despite knowing how corrupt the left is. If this were a Dem pres and conservative DOJ, the raid would not have taken place and the whole matter would have dropped.

I totally get it. Pride and anger is a big motivator.

The country is irrevocably broken. All the radical liberals in this thread celebrating this are simply more proof of that.

---

this situation right now is the reason Hillary wasn't prosecuted, she would have been acquitted and you wouldn't be able to use the Hillary defense right now.

---

Nonsense.

Hillary would have been convicted by a non biased jury. She broke the law, the FBI said she did.

She even destroyed evidence.

Manhattan said:

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Logos Stick said:

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It seems Trumps ego got in the way and blinded him to the fact that there are two sets of justice now, one for conservatives and one for leftists. This despite the fact that he was subjected to it during his presidency.

He thought that because Hillary broke the law and got away with it, he could too, despite knowing how corrupt the left is. If this were a Dem pres and conservative DOJ, the raid would not have taken place and the whole matter would have dropped.

I totally get it. Pride and anger is a big motivator.

The country is irrevocably broken. All the radical liberals in this thread celebrating this are simply more proof of that.

---

this situation right now is the reason Hillary wasn't prosecuted, she would have been acquitted and you wouldn't be able to use the Hillary defense right now.

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Are you actually saying Trump didn't pursue having Hillary prosecuted so he could use that as a defense for crimes he was planning on committing?

Logos Stick said:

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Manhattan said:

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Logos Stick said:

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It seems Trumps ego got in the way and blinded him to the fact that there are two sets of justice now, one for conservatives and one for leftists. This despite the fact that he was subjected to it during his presidency.

He thought that because Hillary broke the law and got away with it, he could too, despite knowing how corrupt the left is. If this were a Dem pres and conservative DOJ, the raid would not have taken place and the whole matter would have dropped.

I totally get it. Pride and anger is a big motivator.

The country is irrevocably broken. All the radical liberals in this thread celebrating this are simply more proof of that.

---

this situation right now is the reason Hillary wasn't prosecuted, she would have been acquitted and you wouldn't be able to use the Hillary defense right now.

---

Lie.

Hillary would have been convicted by a non biased jury. She broke the law, the FBI said she did.

She even destroyed evidence.

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All true. But Hillary went through a lot and suffered greatly in many different ways. So no special prosecutor was needed.

eric76 said:

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fka ftc said:

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Deference to incumbent POTUS (in this case Trump).

It's a complicated history of the PRMPA, Nixon, SCOTUS ruling on Nixon, the PRA, then EOs of varying degree and conflict from Reagan on.

There have been several cases. Believe all give deference to incumbent POTUS.

I am not teaching you a glass on this. You can research yourself and form your own conclusions.

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Trump is hardly the incumbent President.

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And you show you have not read the PRA nor have an understanding of the terms. In regards to the PRA and in all other instances means the current office holder the rule is applied to. In dealing with Trump documents from Trump president, Trump is the incumbent POTUS.

Logos Stick said:

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Manhattan said:

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Logos Stick said:

---

It seems Trumps ego got in the way and blinded him to the fact that there are two sets of justice now, one for conservatives and one for leftists. This despite the fact that he was subjected to it during his presidency.

He thought that because Hillary broke the law and got away with it, he could too, despite knowing how corrupt the left is. If this were a Dem pres and conservative DOJ, the raid would not have taken place and the whole matter would have dropped.

I totally get it. Pride and anger is a big motivator.

The country is irrevocably broken. All the radical liberals in this thread celebrating this are simply more proof of that.

---

this situation right now is the reason Hillary wasn't prosecuted, she would have been acquitted and you wouldn't be able to use the Hillary defense right now.

---

Nonsense.

Hillary would have been convicted by a non biased jury. She broke the law, the FBI said she did.

She even destroyed evidence.

---

How convenient. All of the classified information was sent to her, she didn't remove it, all of those emails originated from government systems with records. A bunch of other people probably would have gone to jail for emailing her classified documents.

For those claiming "whataboutism" and "they should be prosecuted too" whenever someone references the crimes of Biden, Obama, Clintons, etc and the selective persecution of DJT vs others.

Close you eyes and imagine if Trump were black and not orange. I assume all our resident racist Democrats would continue to cheer the persecution of a Black POTUS vs letting all his "white" peers go free.

Dershowitz brought this up on Bartiromo this morning and it fits. Perfectly fits. Trump is being investigated, prosecuted, and persecuted based on his name and skin color. Period.

Dersh also pointed out as has been pointed out previously that "showing" a document is not the same as "letting someone read" or "providing someone a copy" of the document. The Espionage Act is going to require that and Smith knows he does not have that, but included to make the other charges look "scary".

Cheering this persecution on is simply unAmerican. Make note of people who do as they will ultimately be on the WRONG side of history and what it means to be a Patriot.

Manhattan said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Manhattan said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

It seems Trumps ego got in the way and blinded him to the fact that there are two sets of justice now, one for conservatives and one for leftists. This despite the fact that he was subjected to it during his presidency.

He thought that because Hillary broke the law and got away with it, he could too, despite knowing how corrupt the left is. If this were a Dem pres and conservative DOJ, the raid would not have taken place and the whole matter would have dropped.

I totally get it. Pride and anger is a big motivator.

The country is irrevocably broken. All the radical liberals in this thread celebrating this are simply more proof of that.

---

this situation right now is the reason Hillary wasn't prosecuted, she would have been acquitted and you wouldn't be able to use the Hillary defense right now.

---

Nonsense.

Hillary would have been convicted by a non biased jury. She broke the law, the FBI said she did.

She even destroyed evidence.

---

How convenient. All of the classified information was sent to her, she didn't remove it, all of those emails originated from government systems with records. A bunch of other people probably would have gone to jail for emailing her classified documents.

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Lies, obfuscation and gaslighting.

Manhattan said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Nonsense.

Hillary would have been convicted by a non biased jury. She broke the law, the FBI said she did.

She even destroyed evidence.

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How convenient. All of the classified information was sent to her, she didn't remove it, all of those emails originated from government systems with records. A bunch of other people probably would have gone to jail for emailing her classified documents.

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Bolded part is irrelevant.

She knowingly maintained an unsecure server. She also SENT and FORWARDED emails with classified designations... not merely received a copy.

The server was hacked by foreign intelligence and it is not known because HRC deleted what information was acquired - we would have to ask Putin for a copy of what she did since she destroyed evidence.

Those other individuals who sent her the original emails likely did so to her official .gov account, not her super secrete unauthorized, unsecured bathroom server.

You are swimming in the deep end of the pool. Be careful.