Experienced EV podcaster detail their Rivian bricking itself where you can't even open the hood, door, or charging port to access anything.
There is not an "EV learning curve" with these guys.

I can't get over that hideous front end. I don't get the need to make EV's look ridiculous with the overuse of LED's and drastic design features. Just make a clean functioning car that looks good powered by batteries.

PooDoo said:

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Experienced EV podcaster detail their Rivian bricking itself where you can't even open the hood, door, or charging port to access anything.
There is not an "EV learning curve" with these guys.

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This happened to my bosses Tesla while we were in Dallas. He lives in Austin. He had to fly home and leave it here for Tesla to fix it.

It was funny because he was bragging about being able to drive here from Austin in it and then at end of day when he went out to his car to drive back home it was bricked.

Some secondary little battery failed and it bricked the whole car.

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rocky the dog said:

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Rocky you make me spit my drink out every time. Haha. Thats amazing.

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nortex97 said:

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fka ftc said:

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XXXVII said:

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fka ftc said:

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XXXVII said:

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Something I haven't seen discussed much regarding EVs is how much does it cost you to replace the battery when it no longer holds a charge long enough?

I remember back when hybrids were a big thing, it was something like $25k to replace the battery, and it wasn't covered under warranty. I can't image what it would be for a fully electric vehicle.

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• 25,641 AA cells
• Total Weight: 692 kg (1526 lbs)
• Total Volume: 0.23 m^3 (8.06 ft^3)

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OK? Cost for that?

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Just under $7,000 plus wires, tape, containers. Only good for 1 trip under ideal conditions. Nothing to concern anyone.

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Think much closer to $25K. Seriously, that's what Ford is charging to replace the battery on the Lightnings if it is damaged/breaks outside of warranty. Tesla's are similar, and all will be much more in another 5 years of bidenflation. Look up the stories and $$$ at your leisure.

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For what they charge in a premium for the cars, the "power train" warranty should be for life of car. Hell, even Hyundai gave like a 10 year warranty to make up for their Korean version of Honda cars.

At the basic level, are years/miles the next gauge for warranty on an EV?

And are EVs susceptible to Moore's law vs ICE cars? You keep a phone for 8+ years and its not worth *****

Final resale to the Mexicans to take south of the border probably not an option with EVs, unless they take the lithium and turn it back into fentanyl and meth and send it back.

Prices on EV's have and continue to fall. They are more computer than car. Which is a good thing.

Yes, over half the net value of a BEV is in fact the battery, if it is not 'going bad' soon. It's an inevitability it will expire, just a matter of cycles (charging/thermal). The mfg's like the idea of making cars more 'disposable' a la cell phones; worthless after 5 or so years, ideally with monthly subscriptions for software etc (BMW and some others charge for various things monthly already). Governments also want to tax by the mile driven.

The snob appeal to people who want to brag about having the latest/greatest "technology" (like with an iphone, if you will) is a great halo marketing ploy. It's both funny and sad.

Teslag said:

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Prices on EV's have and continue to fall. They are more computer than car. Which is a good thing.

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That's arguable. Creating new and multiple points of failure isn't necessarily a good thing.

It's also enabling the government to implement 1984 which has already been covered and continually ignored.

Teslag said:

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Prices on EV's have and continue to fall. They are more computer than car. Which is a good thing.

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Why is "more computer than car" a good thing? It may be a good thing to Tesla's. To a person who works on ICE vehicles and always have, then more computer is most def not a good thing.

The world exists outside of your own small sliver of perspective.

nortex97 said:

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Yes, over half the net value of a BEV is in fact the battery, if it is not 'going bad' soon. It's an inevitability it will expire, just a matter of cycles (charging/thermal). The mfg's like the idea of making cars more 'disposable' a la cell phones; worthless after 5 or so years, ideally with monthly subscriptions for software etc (BMW and some others charge for various things monthly already). Governments also want to tax by the mile driven.

The snob appeal to people who want to brag about having the latest/greatest "technology" (like with an iphone, if you will) is a great halo marketing ploy. It's both funny and sad.

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I drive, well on the rare occasion I drive, a 2016 Chevy Malibu Premier. I have a 2017 Chevy Tahoe. Previously had a 2009 Nissan Murano and a 2011 Nissan Titan. Before the, a 2000 GMC Yukon. At 45, those are all the new cars I have owned.

I love latest and greatest too (my Amazon Astro is staring at me now), but pouring endless money into new vehicles has no appeal to me. If cars keep trending to needing to be replaced every couple of years because of technology, then I may look at Penske or other car subscription. That has more appeal than making an offering to Elon every couple of years.

I'm a couple years older than you but likewise tend to keep vehicles longer than most because (a) I have generally had a company car for myself, and (b) my wife drives essentially only in-town/within suburbia ('13 Audi has only around 75K miles).

I'm never going to own a tesla, but I do respect the company has built a loyal cadre of customers/tremendous value from scrap (stock price). Frankly, at 11 years old the glorified VW she drives needs to be replaced imho if only because I expect rubber/electronic bits to start disintegrating/breaking soon. I'd prefer to keep buying a newish vehicle every 10 or so years for a couple more decades but I am not real sure how likely that will be for the next cycle, as I have zero motivation to ever get a BEV.

My concern is that gas stations themselves will wind up decreasing in accessibility for trips etc. as more float over to the commie slave labor miner cars. There's no real 'subscription' solution for that.

fka ftc said:

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Teslag said:

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Prices on EV's have and continue to fall. They are more computer than car. Which is a good thing.

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Why is "more computer than car" a good thing? It may be a good thing to Tesla's. To a person who works on ICE vehicles and always have, then more computer is most def not a good thing.

The world exists outside of your own small sliver of perspective.

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I'm sure the farriers felt the same way in the early 1900's

fka ftc said:

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Teslag said:

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Prices on EV's have and continue to fall. They are more computer than car. Which is a good thing.

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Why is "more computer than car" a good thing? It may be a good thing to Tesla's. To a person who works on ICE vehicles and always have, then more computer is most def not a good thing.

The world exists outside of your own small sliver of perspective.

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EV's have been the 'hot new thing' about to take over since…before there were ICE vehicles.

Yep, and an Apache attack helicopter is basically the same as DaVinci's original design

fka ftc said:

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Teslag said:

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Prices on EV's have and continue to fall. They are more computer than car. Which is a good thing.

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Why is "more computer than car" a good thing? It may be a good thing to Tesla's. To a person who works on ICE vehicles and always have, then more computer is most def not a good thing.

The world exists outside of your own small sliver of perspective.

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20 moving parts instead of 200-2000.

Manhattan said:

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fka ftc said:

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Teslag said:

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Prices on EV's have and continue to fall. They are more computer than car. Which is a good thing.

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Why is "more computer than car" a good thing? It may be a good thing to Tesla's. To a person who works on ICE vehicles and always have, then more computer is most def not a good thing.

The world exists outside of your own small sliver of perspective.

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20 moving parts instead of 200-2000.

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Didn't help the guy who had to take a 737 to get home up-thread, when the non-moving part on his tesla bricked the vehicle.

nortex97 said:

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Manhattan said:

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fka ftc said:

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Teslag said:

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Prices on EV's have and continue to fall. They are more computer than car. Which is a good thing.

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Why is "more computer than car" a good thing? It may be a good thing to Tesla's. To a person who works on ICE vehicles and always have, then more computer is most def not a good thing.

The world exists outside of your own small sliver of perspective.

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20 moving parts instead of 200-2000.

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Didn't help the guy who had to take a 737 to get home up-thread, when the non-moving part on his tesla bricked the vehicle.

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Rivian. And I'm sure no ICE vehicle drivers have ever suffered a catastrophic mechanical breakdown.

Teslag said:

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nortex97 said:

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Manhattan said:

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fka ftc said:

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Teslag said:

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Prices on EV's have and continue to fall. They are more computer than car. Which is a good thing.

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Why is "more computer than car" a good thing? It may be a good thing to Tesla's. To a person who works on ICE vehicles and always have, then more computer is most def not a good thing.

The world exists outside of your own small sliver of perspective.

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20 moving parts instead of 200-2000.

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Didn't help the guy who had to take a 737 to get home up-thread, when the non-moving part on his tesla bricked the vehicle.

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Rivian. And I'm sure no ICE vehicle drivers have ever suffered a catastrophic mechanical breakdown.

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Even the ****tiest ICE vehicle lets you open your ****ing door during a "catastrophic mechanical breakdown".

Tesla has a mechanical emergency door release for each door. It's not an EV issue. It's a ****ty design issue.

Good catch.

Spontaneous combustion seems to be a problem, statistically, for Tesla's though (given the number built:burnt).

https://www.tesla-fire.com/

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Even the ****tiest ICE vehicle lets you open your ****ing door during a "catastrophic mechanical breakdown".

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Funny you would say that. I had a brand new '82 Volvo two door and the electric locks and windows failed, could not get out of the car. Had to pass my keys through the sun roof to someone to unlock the door from the outside.

nortex97 said:

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I'm a couple years older than you but likewise tend to keep vehicles longer than most because (a) I have generally had a company car for myself, and (b) my wife drives essentially only in-town/within suburbia ('13 Audi has only around 75K miles).

I'm never going to own a tesla, but I do respect the company has built a loyal cadre of customers/tremendous value from scrap (stock price). Frankly, at 11 years old the glorified VW she drives needs to be replaced imho if only because I expect rubber/electronic bits to start disintegrating/breaking soon. I'd prefer to keep buying a newish vehicle every 10 or so years for a couple more decades but I am not real sure how likely that will be for the next cycle, as I have zero motivation to ever get a BEV.

My concern is that gas stations themselves will wind up decreasing in accessibility for trips etc. as more float over to the commie slave labor miner cars. There's no real 'subscription' solution for that.

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Warren Buffet recently invested in Flying J truck stops. He thinks liquid fuels will be around for a while.

https://pilotflyingj.com/press-release/19335

nortex97 said:

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Good catch.

Spontaneous combustion seems to be a problem, statistically, for Tesla's though (given the number built:burnt).

https://www.tesla-fire.com/

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Spontaneous like this one from your link? "Spontaneously" burning due to a house fire?

Fire destroys Lynnwood home, causes Teslas to explode in driveway KIRO 7 News Seattle

Your list is full of vehicles catching fire after accidents, not "spontaneous". Jesus, you're not even trying anymore.

You also list 182 incidents, most of which are crashes. 182 incidents out of 4,000,000 vehicles sold. Impressive.

Manhattan said:

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https://pilotflyingj.com/press-release/19335

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Like shooting ducks in a barrel. They don't even bother to do any real research.

Teslag said:

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Tesla has a mechanical emergency door release for each door. It's not an EV issue. It's a ****ty design issue.

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Tesla has a fair amount of poor design choices. Some are because they felt they needed to put their own spin on things, some because the did not even consider the environments cars are used in (ala handle that can be frozen shut) and some for cost reasons (the model 3 interior). Tesla cars were always gadget first which attracted a certain segment of fanboys.

AustinScubaAg said:

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Teslag said:

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Tesla has a mechanical emergency door release for each door. It's not an EV issue. It's a ****ty design issue.

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Tesla has a fair amount of poor design choices. Some are because they felt they needed to put their own spin on things, some because the did not even consider the environments cars are used in (ala handle that can be frozen shut) and some for cost reasons (the model 3 interior). Tesla cars were always gadget first which attracted a certain segment of fanboys.

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They can walk on water, so I'll allow it

Teslag said:

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Manhattan said:

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https://pilotflyingj.com/press-release/19335

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Like shooting ducks in a barrel. They don't even bother to do any real research.

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Fanboys are so condescending. Those aren't used for trucks.

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/warren-buffett-berkshire-hathaway-pilot-acquisition-deals-truck-stops-travel-2022-3?amp

Geez, what happened to this thread...looks like SOMEONE did some complaining to staff...it's half what it once was.

i hate EV's, because they are everything that i hate;

hype over function
hypocrisy over meritocracy
government theft
political versus real
control versus freedom


that said, bricked cars are not just EV's. the same idiot EE's are being allowed to **** up ICE vehicles too.

there is no excuse for door handles, steering and brake mech/hydraulics, starter, etc., to be anything other than analog and mechanically sound, regardless of power, environment, etc.

these ****ing idiots are requiring fake little buttons plastic buttons, with 22 ga or smaller, multi tasking wires, routed through multiple modules, all just to allow windows and doors to open, brake fluid into the calipers, and steering input to the tires, etc.

no excuse.

Manhattan said:

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fka ftc said:

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Teslag said:

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Prices on EV's have and continue to fall. They are more computer than car. Which is a good thing.

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Why is "more computer than car" a good thing? It may be a good thing to Tesla's. To a person who works on ICE vehicles and always have, then more computer is most def not a good thing.

The world exists outside of your own small sliver of perspective.

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20 moving parts instead of 200-2000.

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Pro EV folks keep referencing the lack of moving parts as a benefit, except that very often on ICE cars, its not the moving parts that fail, its the electronics. On my very reliable 4Runner, the only expensive repair i have had to make in 156K miles is the HVAC controller at $900 for the part. On my dad's 2015 GMC Canyon, he has had no repairs, but the info-tainment LCD screen is toast and switches screens at will and constantly making even the radio useless. I'm sure that won't happen to the rolling computers that EVs are.

From what I read on the automotive board it's usually cam phasers in the eco boosts, busted turbos in the diesels, and failing lifters in the GM dfm engines. All mechanical.

This is why we need one EV thread…. Toyota is great, makes great reliable cars which is why they are sandbagging on evs.

When you car powers up, says "Welcome to Tesla", you enter your destination and it responds "sorry, I see you vaccination card is out of date. Your range is limited to 3 miles. May I suggest a delivery service?"