agracer said:

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StockHorseAg said:

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https://www.myhighplains.com/news/local-news/wtamu-president-provides-reasoning-on-canceling-on-campus-drag-show-in-letter-to-students-staff-faculty/

This is a nice and refreshing letter to get from a University President.

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can someone post a link to the letter, that website is terrible.

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Page 4 of this thread

I've been to a drag show. It was at a bar and it was hilarious and fun. I'm as against woke as most on this board but I also believe people should be free to do what they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.

I'm also 100% against any censorship. For the very reason that you're putting thought in the control of a certain group. This hurts everyone.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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Drahknor03 said:

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In today's edition of "The Libertarians Aren't Actually Friends."

WTAMU President Walter Wendler says there's "No Such Thing [as a] Harmless Drag Show" in a stunning statement vowing to violate the First Amendment if needed to censor a student-run drag show raising money for The Trevor Project. https://t.co/lhJ02ZaiVS pic.twitter.com/FFWmgGe2o4

— Alex Morey (@1AMorey) March 21, 2023

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Interesting take there Alex. Using that logic, universities would have to allow klan rallies on campus.

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Correct. They would. And should. Same with the whataboutism on menstral shows. If West Texas A&M can ban drag shows under some premise of harm to women your Alma mater can ban conservative groups for causing harm to liberals. The first amendment doesn't care if you like the speech or not.

Admiral Adama said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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Drahknor03 said:

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In today's edition of "The Libertarians Aren't Actually Friends."

WTAMU President Walter Wendler says there's "No Such Thing [as a] Harmless Drag Show" in a stunning statement vowing to violate the First Amendment if needed to censor a student-run drag show raising money for The Trevor Project. https://t.co/lhJ02ZaiVS pic.twitter.com/FFWmgGe2o4

— Alex Morey (@1AMorey) March 21, 2023

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Interesting take there Alex. Using that logic, universities would have to allow klan rallies on campus.

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Correct. They would. And should. Same with the whataboutism on menstral shows. If West Texas A&M can ban drag shows under some premise of harm to women your Alma mater can ban conservative groups for causing harm to liberals. The first amendment doesn't care if you like the speech or not.

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Yeah, that used to be the excuse when protecting flag burners, but conservatives have been getting treated like crap all over.

Can you imagine if the truth was testified open and honestly during the 80's drive toward the recognition of Gay marriage?



"YES, we want to eventually recruit your young boys and young girls into stripping, dressing in drag or mutilating their bodies!"

Would have resulted in:

?w=816&h=542&crop=1

I haven't read the whole thread, so forgive me if this has been mentioned. I think just how offensive a drag show is depends on the content and the audience. Is it just silly entertainment, or is it depicting deviant sex and filth. Are there children present?

For those who say it doesn't demean women and it's just entertainment, how would you feel about a minstrel show?

Side note, I saw a flyer for the planned show. WT students were getting in free. Kind of weird for a "fund raiser".

EVA3 said:

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I haven't read the whole thread, so forgive me if this has been mentioned. I think just how offensive a drag show is depends on the content and the audience. Is it just silly entertainment, or is it depicting deviant sex and filth. Are there children present?

For those who say it doesn't demean women and it's just entertainment, how would you feel about a minstrel show?

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So because you believe something is offensive, or you believe something demeans women, means we have the government step in and stop all adults from being able to go see the show? If you don't want you and your family to see it, then no one should be allowed to see it?

And who gets to make the determination of what is offensive or demeaning? Just whatever government actor happens to be in charge at the time? In this case, a school president.

It's so funny to see people on this thread bring up something offensive (like a minstrel show) and say "oh so we should allow this?"
The flip side is what if some government actor in charge decides the Bible is offensive and demeaning, and bans Bible study groups on campus. I assume I that case you'd say that person shouldn't be able to violate the first amendment, right?

Why are you wanting the government to keep adults who want to go to a drag show from going to the drag show?? Why does the government violating the 1st amendment in order to restrict freedoms appeal to you? Just because this time it's something you don't like?

This has been argued to death now and I'm tired of to. The reality is there are many people on the left and right who don't give 2 ****s about the first amendment. They are happy to have the government step in and decide what's offensive and what adults shouldn't be able to see, as long as it's something they themselves find offensive.

Curious how many people on this thread view pornography, something that studies have shown is actually harmful, and I think pretty clearly is demeaning to women, not to mention it's role in trafficking. How many are on here talking about drag shows being offense and demeaning and then trudge off to their room with their sock to watch some porn.

EVA3 said:

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I haven't read the whole thread, so forgive me if this has been mentioned. I think just how offensive a drag show is depends on the content and the audience. Is it just silly entertainment, or is it depicting deviant sex and filth. Are there children present?

For those who say it doesn't demean women and it's just entertainment, how would you feel about a minstrel show?

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-The event was intended to be PG-13 and performers were instructed to keep their acts to a PG-13 standard and not perform and lewd acts
-The show is for those 18 and up unless the minor is in attendance with a parent. (intended for family members of students who want to come with students' parents to show their support)
-The event was alcohol free
-The music used would be free from profanity.

The minstrel show is a strawman and not even remotely the same as drag.

I've yet to hear anyone describe in detail just exactly how drag demeans women.

nai06 said:

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EVA3 said:

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I haven't read the whole thread, so forgive me if this has been mentioned. I think just how offensive a drag show is depends on the content and the audience. Is it just silly entertainment, or is it depicting deviant sex and filth. Are there children present?

For those who say it doesn't demean women and it's just entertainment, how would you feel about a minstrel show?

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-The event was intended to be PG-13 and performers were instructed to keep their acts to a PG-13 standard and not perform and lewd acts
-The show is for those 18 and up unless the minor is in attendance with a parent. (intended for family members of students who want to come with students' parents to show their support)
-The event was alcohol free
-The music used would be free from profanity.

The minstrel show is a strawman and not even remotely the same as drag.

I've yet to hear anyone describe in detail just exactly how drag demeans women.

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Hate to say it again, but Link?

CanyonAg77 said:

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nai06 said:

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EVA3 said:

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I haven't read the whole thread, so forgive me if this has been mentioned. I think just how offensive a drag show is depends on the content and the audience. Is it just silly entertainment, or is it depicting deviant sex and filth. Are there children present?

For those who say it doesn't demean women and it's just entertainment, how would you feel about a minstrel show?

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-The event was intended to be PG-13 and performers were instructed to keep their acts to a PG-13 standard and not perform and lewd acts
-The show is for those 18 and up unless the minor is in attendance with a parent. (intended for family members of students who want to come with students' parents to show their support)
-The event was alcohol free
-The music used would be free from profanity.

The minstrel show is a strawman and not even remotely the same as drag.

I've yet to hear anyone describe in detail just exactly how drag demeans women.

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Hate to say it again, but Link?

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Go read the lawsuit, which I previously linked in this thread. It has what you're looking for.

CanyonAg77 said:

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nai06 said:

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EVA3 said:

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I haven't read the whole thread, so forgive me if this has been mentioned. I think just how offensive a drag show is depends on the content and the audience. Is it just silly entertainment, or is it depicting deviant sex and filth. Are there children present?

For those who say it doesn't demean women and it's just entertainment, how would you feel about a minstrel show?

---

-The event was intended to be PG-13 and performers were instructed to keep their acts to a PG-13 standard and not perform and lewd acts
-The show is for those 18 and up unless the minor is in attendance with a parent. (intended for family members of students who want to come with students' parents to show their support)
-The event was alcohol free
-The music used would be free from profanity.

The minstrel show is a strawman and not even remotely the same as drag.

I've yet to hear anyone describe in detail just exactly how drag demeans women.

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Hate to say it again, but Link?

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Its in the lawsuit pages 12 and 13

https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/verified-complaint-civil-rights-violations-and-exhibits-spectrum-wt-et-al-v-wendler

agent-maroon said:

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Female poster redcrayon addressed it quite clearly on pages 2 & 3 of this thread, including a direct response to you. The problem isn't that the answer hasn't been given, but rather that you aren't willing to accept the answer.

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Except she didn't address it clearly at all.

She said:

It creates a hostile work environment.
She compared it to blackface.
She said its vile.


I asked specifically what about drag creates a hostile workplace or why its blackface and she never answered that.

It seems most people on this thread have a real issue with men dress as women and wearing makeup. No one however seems to give a **** about drag kings, women wearing pants, or really women doing things that have been traditionally viewed as masculine or male dominated.


Its an absurd comparison people desperately try to make because they find drag personally distasteful, not because they believe its the equivalent of blackface. In any case it doesn't matter because the school policy and law are pretty clear that the drag show should have the ability to continue as planned. The president knows this and even admitted it in is letter. This is such a stupid issue for him to fall on his sword over.

Ferg said:

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Admiral Adama said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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Drahknor03 said:

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In today's edition of "The Libertarians Aren't Actually Friends."

WTAMU President Walter Wendler says there's "No Such Thing [as a] Harmless Drag Show" in a stunning statement vowing to violate the First Amendment if needed to censor a student-run drag show raising money for The Trevor Project. https://t.co/lhJ02ZaiVS pic.twitter.com/FFWmgGe2o4

— Alex Morey (@1AMorey) March 21, 2023

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Interesting take there Alex. Using that logic, universities would have to allow klan rallies on campus.

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Correct. They would. And should. Same with the whataboutism on menstral shows. If West Texas A&M can ban drag shows under some premise of harm to women your Alma mater can ban conservative groups for causing harm to liberals. The first amendment doesn't care if you like the speech or not.

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Yeah, that used to be the excuse when protecting flag burners, but conservatives have been getting treated like crap all over.

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The first amendment doesn't care who is getting treated like crap. The KKK, NAMBLA, Nation of Islam, American Communist Party, et al are free to assemble and speak without government interference.

If your litmus test for free speech is whether or not speech you don't like is getting stopped, you aren't for free speech.

Is the President still In office

MarathonAg12 said:

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Is the President still In office

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This is a relevant question and one that I think highlights the problem with liberal academia. Liberal academia has been a scourge of free speech, and it's been getting significantly worse in the last decade. Anyone to the right of Bernie Sanders getting canceled at institutions is far more prevalent than one drag show, and is the leading reason why the Academy is losing face with main stream America.

But speech isnt an issue where we should say that turnabout is fair play. The standard is free speech for everybody, and tolerating speech at West Texas A&M would be the ultimate power move to say that they're not like progressives who also want to cancel speech. Cancel culture and limiting free-speech is just bad, no matter who is doing it.

nai06 said:

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-The show is for those 18 and up unless the minor is in attendance with a parent. (intended for family members of students who want to come with students' parents to show their support)

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Doesn't say that on the flyer

Faculty Senate doing faculty senate stuff

https://www.texastribune.org/2023/04/17/west-texas-tamu-walter-wendler-no-confidence/

Quote:

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West Texas A&M University faculty leaders have called for a vote of no confidence this week to condemn President Walter Wendler less than a month after he came under fire from students and free speech groups for canceling a campus drag show.

In a resolution obtained by The Texas Tribune, faculty senate leaders accused Wendler of abusing his role as president by running the university based on his own religious ideology. They said he has exhibited a pattern of "divisive misogynistic, homophobic and non-inclusive rhetoric that stands in stark contrast with the Core Values of the university."

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Guess what really upsets them?

Quote:

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Faculty who spoke to the Tribune and requested to remain anonymous out of fear of retaliation say Wendler's handling of the drag show was the last straw for many of them who feel he has exhibited poor leadership with other issues.

In the resolution, faculty accused Wendler of actively encouraging prospective students to avoid attending a four-year university immediately after high school and encouraging them to attend community college first, which they say has led to enrollment declines.

They point to Wendler's "Your Community, Your University" tour, in which he visited 66 high schools in the Texas Panhandle, telling students to start at a community college first, rather than borrowing money to attend a four-year university. Faculty leaders say in the resolution that Wendler has continued to encourage prospective students to start at a community college, even as the number of community college transfers to the university has declined.

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The Horror!

And, obligatory

Quote:

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Faculty leaders say in the resolution that Wendler has continued to encourage prospective students to start at a community college,

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The funny thing about that is Amarillo College, at least back in my day, was more difficult than WT.

BDUB95 said:

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Quote:

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Faculty leaders say in the resolution that Wendler has continued to encourage prospective students to start at a community college,

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The funny thing about that is Amarillo College, at least back in my day, was more difficult than WT.

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AC is a teaching school, so they often do a better job.

In addition, they work hard to make their courses transferrable to A&M and t.u. Which means the courses are probably harder than WT or TTech.

BDUB95 said:

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Quote:

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Faculty leaders say in the resolution that Wendler has continued to encourage prospective students to start at a community college,

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The funny thing about that is Amarillo College, at least back in my day, was more difficult than WT.

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One of my kids graduated cum laude from the nursing school at tamu. The other will graduate in August from wtamu. I have been impressed with wtamu and they have provided a solid education.

https://www.amarillo.com/story/opinion/letters/2023/04/23/letter-to-the-editor-wt-faculty-argues-against-no-confidence-vote/70130319007/

Letter in support of Wendler and the great job he's doing at WT. Counteracts some of the lies in the Faculty Senate resolution of 'no confidence'.

BTW, said vote concluded last week and they won't give out results until next week.

Quote:

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4. The rest of the document contains additional false and misleading claims, mostly against the personal beliefs of our president. No leader leads from anywhere but their core belief system. Our president is authentic and transparent about that, unlike many today who are unwilling to publicly acknowledge the basis for their decision. At a time when our nation is divided virtually 50/50 on the fundamental social issues underlying this no-confidence vote, it is (in my opinion) dismissive to act as if only one side of this national debate is allowed to speak. Can a traditionalist speak and defend their position without being accused of vile things?


5. Consider how the communities we serve will understand a vote of no-confidence. They see what I have documented and much more. Every young person achieving recognition in schools across the region has gotten a personal letter from Dr. Wendler. THIS is the president we think needs to be fired? Explain that to your neighbor with the 17-year-old child.

Last, I will make a personal comment. I have worked closely with this man for more than 5 years. He is a kind and patient person, passionate but never hateful. He has pushed for ideas you may not like (such as textbook-free campus), but do not fail to notice that he has not mandated such a move. Dr. Wendler respects the role of the faculty; we should respect his job to push the organization to consider things we would not likely entertain on our own.

Can you vote no-confidence and then look yourself in the mirror?

Respectfully, Dr. Brad Johnson

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Gee, the faculty malcontents are malcontent

KVII-TV Amarillo

Quote:

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Officials reported in a news release that the Faculty Senate is made up of 25 members elected by their peers to represent their respective college, stand-alone school or the Cornette Library.

Of the total 368 e-mails sent to full-time faculty and full-time professional librarians (excluding deans, associate deans, department heads, or equivalent) deemed eligible to vote by the Faculty Senate, 261 people, or 70%, participated in the vote by submitting a valid ballot. Of the 261 ballots, counted 82 people, or 31%, voted to show confidence in Wendler's leadership and 179 people, or 69%, voted no confidence in Wendler's leadership.

The 261 faculty/staff who voted represented 17% of WT employees. WTAMU said it employs 1,522 faculty and staff.

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So of 368 people the faculty senate deemed worthy (excluding deans, associate deans, department heads, or equivalent)

48.6% voted no confidence

22.3% voted for Wendler

29.1% didn't bother to vote

1,263 members of the faculty and staff were not deemed worthy to vote

Also from the above article

Quote:

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In an April 17 email to faculty, WT Faculty Senate President Ashley Pinkham said that the "Faculty Senate has taken the position that we have no confidence in the ability of President Walter Wendler to lead WT in a manner that enables our faculty, staff and administrators to educate and serve our students effectively."

The email noted that voting was expected to continue until Friday and take place using hard-copy ballots "to ensure confidentiality, anonymity and protection from public records requests." All full-time faculty and full-time professional librarians were eligible to vote.

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Is that even legal?

1. Id be interested in who picks who can vote… doesn't seem very democratic!

2. Hopefully the vote is an open vote or petition style so that the president now knows who's uninterested in being employed any longer!

Get Off My Lawn said:

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1. Id be interested in who picks who can vote… doesn't seem very democratic!

Officials reported in a news release that the Faculty Senate is made up of 25 members elected by their peers to represent their respective college, stand-alone school or the Cornette Library.

Of the total 368 e-mails sent to full-time faculty and full-time professional librarians (excluding deans, associate deans, department heads, or equivalent) deemed eligible to vote by the Faculty Senate,

2. Hopefully the vote is an open vote or petition style so that the president now knows who's uninterested in being employed any longer!

The email noted that voting was expected to continue until Friday and take place using hard-copy ballots "to ensure confidentiality, anonymity and protection from public records requests."

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KUBIAK said:

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Dr. Wendler was Vice Chancellor of the TAMU System in the late 90s to early 00s. I believe the primary author of Vision 2020.

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Wut?

Until the LGTB & whatever Community comes out to aggressively distance themselves from supporting child (under 18 years old) mutilation and grooming then the silence is going to be interpreted as support.

If children are present during a strip ar drag show……then those adult need to be arrested.

If children are being operated on to remove or attempt for reconstruction of sex organs doctors and staff need to be arrested, lose their license and face jail time. Parents who approved of this type of surgery need to have their children removed from their household.

Until the LGTB community steps forward to curtail the many inappropriate elements that involves kids then it is guilt by silence association and those organizations have no place in school or on college campuses.

Well, I guess in that case - who can take serious any "results" from a self-sampled non-verifiable vote of non-deciding employees? Seems about as useless as a high school class president giving the principle a super cereal list of unanimous student demands!

CanyonAg77 said:

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nai06 said:

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-The show is for those 18 and up unless the minor is in attendance with a parent. (intended for family members of students who want to come with students' parents to show their support)

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Doesn't say that on the flyer

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Here's the Instagram post from which the flyer comes from...And if you click on it, you will see that it says "This is a PG-13 show, no minors will be accepted without a parent or guardian present."

https://instagr.am/p/CqbOSHxPOby

cryption said:

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Remember when drag shows and midget wrestling were funny? Pepperidge farms remembers

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https://instagr.am/p/CtArQ6TgYDz

These midgets get after this boy.

I wouldn't underestimate a midget.

They small but look like they could do some damage.

The Green Dragon said:

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I've been to a drag show. It was at a bar and it was hilarious and fun. I'm as against woke as most on this board but I also believe people should be free to do what they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.

I'm also 100% against any censorship. For the very reason that you're putting thought in the control of a certain group. This hurts everyone.

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Nobody cares about you going to a bar to watch men in women's underwear....dude that's just creepy, I'm sorry it just is.

What people care about is doing in front of children, and you know it.

Good. These displays are peak wokeness and the biggest threat to the Republic.