96LawAg said:

---

Wrong. We should always defend freedom of speech. Most importantly speech we don't agree with.

And you're clearly not a "free speech absolutist," because you're saying "oh they didn't care about the constitution so now I'm not going to care about it either."
Always funny when someone claims to be for freedom of speech while making the argument that it's ok to suppress speech.

And to your last sentence - evidently what "they" want is also what you want: more daddy government. Because here you are supporting it.

---

Lol. You're right we should defend speech we don't agree with. Like I said I disagree with the WTAMU president. But I also acknowledged that this is the society that leftist/students wanted. They are getting what they voted for.

Perhaps there was a time back in the day when conservatives and liberals could agree on things, like Freedom of Speech, and we would rally together and defend it. Now it just seems, to me at least, that leftists want to be saved from the consequences of their poor choices while not changing their beliefs. They want their cake and want to eat it.

Like I mentioned, do you think the students/media would be this upset if a Minstrel Show was planned on campus and the president cancelled it?

Do you actually know these women are offended? Did you interview them or something? I'm really curious to know what makes you and others think you have a right to speak on their behalf. Drag shows have been around forever and I never met any woman who was deeply offended by them. In fact, I knew a number who liked them.

So, an optional event held on campus is somehow creating a hostile work environment for these women? Was the university requiring them to go or something? Please explain your logic. Because by your standards, my job is creating a hostile work environment for vegans because they sometimes order beef fajitas for lunch for everyone.

CanyonAg77 said:

---

Spenser was only divisive for idiots. And yes, I'm angry that the university could not simply let his talk sink or swim on its own, and instead wasted money on a stupid counter event.

---

So you were about 40 years removed from graduation and you were angry about what the student body at the time was doing in response to a divisive speaker? And now you're here caring about a university president canceling an event because the content hurt his (and your) feelings?

I guess I really don't understand the logic behind all this crap. Being sso angry about something that isn't your problem at all. Maybe it's a generation gap thing. But I think I speak for many millennials (and Gen Zs) when I say we all wish the older generations would leave us the **** alone.

Ok, so you think they're vile.

Then don't go to them.

Problem solved.

barbacoa taco said:

---

TJaggie14 said:

---

As a conservative and a free speech absolutist I do not like the WTAMU president's actions. HOWEVER, the leftist have made the rules of the game and when you play stupid games you win stupid prizes. The left deserve this, they are getting exactly what they wanted...more daddy govt.

---

You aren't very principled then if you are in favor of free speech you like but against free speech you don't like. Sounds like you aren't for free speech at all and are no better than the liberals who try to cancel Ben Shapiro speaking events.

I remember the Richard Spencer event too. I also remember the reaction on this forum. It was shocking how much anger was directed at Aggies United. As if it's completely insane for a university, getting bad PR because of a highly controversial speaker, would organize an event in hopes of unifying the students and overall being more positive than someone as disgusting and divisive as Spencer.

---

Like I said play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Hard to come defend the leftist/students when they won't change their ways when faced with the consequences of their actions. They want their cake and want to eat too.

I can't speak to the collective board's feeling towards Richard Spencer's speech at A&M. I can only share my opinion (for whatever that's worth).
What was frustrating/stupid for me is the University admin giving that Spencer guy any sort of attention. They should have simply said "we host a variety of speakers with diff backgrounds and views. We are a public university and Spencer and his group filled out the forms and paid the fees. This is not a mandatory event for students, and we have nothing further to add at this time."

And then they should have just left it. But like you said they were getting bad PR, but that's because they kept giving it attention.They tried to placate a mob of idiots, when that never works.

Lol at your last sentence about being fine with A&M using taxpayer money, resources, and facilities to promote certain speech. Again, your fine with the university/govt using it's power when it's something you agree with, but hate when the hammer is used on you. Just proves my point of folks wanting their cake and eating it and playing stupid games and winning stupid prizes.

Optional student-run events are not hostile work environments. Never have been. If you have evidence women employees were being forced to attend the drag show against their will, then I'll reconsider my position. Otherwise, let it go.

It was what the administration was doing with tax dollars, not what the students were doing.

You want us to leave you the F alone to destroy what we built and paid for?

No thanks

barbacoa taco said:

---

Optional student-run events are not hostile work environments. Never have been. If you have evidence women employees were being forced to attend the drag show against their will, then I'll reconsider my position. Otherwise, let it go.

---

No, I won't let it go. Women shouldn't be subjected to ridicule and womanface at work. Unless you now think blackface at work is okay?

It. Is. Not. At. Work. It's a optional student-run event. You are really grasping at straws here to justify your desire to suppress free speech just because you don't like it.

If we go down this path, we may as well cancel all student-run events that may be deemed offensive by someone.

For the record, I don't care for drag shows. I find them weird as hell. I would never go to one. But I have a major problem with university presidents and others trying to shut them down SOLELY because it offends their religious beliefs. And yes, that is the only reason they are doing it. And this is why I'll always push back on conservatives when they claim to be champions of free speech. Free speech for me but not for thee.

TJaggie14 said:

---

96LawAg said:

---

Wrong. We should always defend freedom of speech. Most importantly speech we don't agree with.

And you're clearly not a "free speech absolutist," because you're saying "oh they didn't care about the constitution so now I'm not going to care about it either."
Always funny when someone claims to be for freedom of speech while making the argument that it's ok to suppress speech.

And to your last sentence - evidently what "they" want is also what you want: more daddy government. Because here you are supporting it.

---

Lol. You're right we should defend speech we don't agree with. Like I said I disagree with the WTAMU president. But I also acknowledged that this is the society that leftist/students wanted. They are getting what they voted for.

Perhaps there was a time back in the day when conservatives and liberals could agree on things, like Freedom of Speech, and we would rally together and defend it. Now it just seems, to me at least, that leftists want to be saved from the consequences of their poor choices while not changing their beliefs. They want their cake and want to eat it.

Like I mentioned, do you think the students/media would be this upset if a Minstrel Show was planned on campus and the president cancelled it?

---

Your last paragraph indicates you're just talking about people getting their feelings hurt. Being "upset." Sorry, but I'm talking about constitutional violations. I'm not concerned with people on either side being upset.
I personally don't care a thing about going to a drag show. But what I do care about is people having the right to free expression with government actors interfering. And not just not interfering when it's speech I agree with.

Unfortunately we're living in a time where both sides want speech they disagree with to be be censored. Including you. You can say you disagree with the decision yet you turn around and defend it.

Conservatives calling for and agreeing with government censorship - who would have thought it.
And the crazy thing is we're talking about a college campus. We're talking about adults. Conservatives cheering on censoring a show that adults can choose to attend or not.

A lawsuit has been filed. It's frustrating because WTAMU does not have the money for this. And especially frustrating because it's such a clear violation.

Lol I feel like you are doing some nice mental gymnastics.
I don't remember where I wrote it was a good thing what the WTAMU president was doing. In fact I said I disagree with it.

I was simply pointing out the reality of the world we live in and the rules of the game that the leftist want to live/play by

TJaggie14 said:

---

Lol I feel like you are doing some nice mental gymnastics.
I don't remember where I wrote it was a good thing what the WTAMU president was doing. In fact I said I disagree with it.

I was simply pointing out the reality of the world we live in and the rules of the game that the leftist want to live/play by

---

Ok then you agree the decision should be reversed and the show allowed to proceed?

barbacoa taco said:

---

It. Is. Not. At. Work. It's a optional student-run event. You are really grasping at straws here to justify your desire to suppress free speech just because you don't like it.

If we go down this path, we may as well cancel all student-run events that may be deemed offensive by someone.

For the record, I don't care for drag shows. I find them weird as hell. I would never go to one. But I have a major problem with university presidents and others trying to shut them down SOLELY because it offends their religious beliefs. And yes, that is the only reason they are doing it. And this is why I'll always push back on conservatives when they claim to be champions of free speech. Free speech for me but not for thee.

---

So women don't work at those facilities at that university?

Again, if someone decided to wear blackface to work, is that okay?

TJaggie14 said:

---

Lol I feel like you are doing some nice mental gymnastics.
I don't remember where I wrote it was a good thing what the WTAMU president was doing. In fact I said I disagree with it.

I was simply pointing out the reality of the world we live in and the rules of the game that the leftist want to live/play by

---

Meh.

Not a fan of you essentially saying "you did this. this is YOUR fault."

The WTAMU president is a religious nutcase who got butthurt over a drag show so now he's going to suppress free speech and waste university resources trying to defend his hurt feelings. He should be ousted for exhibiting such asinine behavior, because he's clearly unfit to run a public university.

redcrayon said:

---

barbacoa taco said:

---

It. Is. Not. At. Work. It's a optional student-run event. You are really grasping at straws here to justify your desire to suppress free speech just because you don't like it.

If we go down this path, we may as well cancel all student-run events that may be deemed offensive by someone.

For the record, I don't care for drag shows. I find them weird as hell. I would never go to one. But I have a major problem with university presidents and others trying to shut them down SOLELY because it offends their religious beliefs. And yes, that is the only reason they are doing it. And this is why I'll always push back on conservatives when they claim to be champions of free speech. Free speech for me but not for thee.

---

So women don't work at those facilities at that university?

Again, if someone decided to wear blackface to work, is that okay?

---

Yeah, they work there. And for the millionth time, they aren't forced to go. Why is this so difficult to understand?

Having an optional drag show isn't the same as wearing blackface to work. What a ridiculous comparison.

You are rightfully getting criticized for your comments.

Quote:

---

But I have a major problem with university presidents and others trying to shut them down SOLELY because it offends their religious beliefs.

---

Good. Because that's not what happened.

barbacoa taco said:

---

TJaggie14 said:

---

Lol I feel like you are doing some nice mental gymnastics.
I don't remember where I wrote it was a good thing what the WTAMU president was doing. In fact I said I disagree with it.

I was simply pointing out the reality of the world we live in and the rules of the game that the leftist want to live/play by

---

Meh.

Not a fan of you essentially saying "you did this. this is YOUR fault."

The WTAMU president is a religious nutcase who got butthurt over a drag show so now he's going to suppress free speech and waste university resources trying to defend his hurt feelings. He should be ousted for exhibiting such asinine behavior, because he's clearly unfit to run a public university.

---

Lol, sorry you're not a fan of looking at reality.

Quick question though, were you this zealous of trying to get rid of the Aggie president for promoting Aggie United and that certain speech? Did you also think Mike Young was clearly unfit for to run a public university because he liked and promoted one speech over another? Or were you cool with that because you agreed with it?

To me it looks like you are just hypocritical and hate having to actually see the repercussions of your beliefs carried out.

barbacoa taco said:

---

redcrayon said:

---

barbacoa taco said:

---

It. Is. Not. At. Work. It's a optional student-run event. You are really grasping at straws here to justify your desire to suppress free speech just because you don't like it.

If we go down this path, we may as well cancel all student-run events that may be deemed offensive by someone.

For the record, I don't care for drag shows. I find them weird as hell. I would never go to one. But I have a major problem with university presidents and others trying to shut them down SOLELY because it offends their religious beliefs. And yes, that is the only reason they are doing it. And this is why I'll always push back on conservatives when they claim to be champions of free speech. Free speech for me but not for thee.

---

So women don't work at those facilities at that university?

Again, if someone decided to wear blackface to work, is that okay?

---

Yeah, they work there. And for the millionth time, they aren't forced to go. Why is this so difficult to understand?

Having an optional drag show isn't the same as wearing blackface to work. What a ridiculous comparison.

You are rightfully getting criticized for your comments.

---

I'm being criticized by people practicing hypocrisy.

Who do you think works these events when they are held at the university?? Are you being purposefully obtuse? If the Racist Student Union decides to sponsor a blackface show at the student union, is that okay with you? Be honest.

Women are becoming fed up with the damage done by transgenderism, autogynephiles, drag queens, etc. Expect more pushback.

Quote:

---

I do remember my wife crying uncontrollably after watching Ms. Doubtfire. She was so hurt

---

Drag Queens

Quote:

---

The WTAMU president is a religious nutcase who got butthurt over a drag show

---

Objection, assumes facts not in evidence. For that matter, it is slanderous.

Quote:

---

Having an optional drag show

---

Having to take tickets, work security, clean up after, etc. etc. are not optional.+

TJaggie14 said:

---

barbacoa taco said:

---

TJaggie14 said:

---

Lol I feel like you are doing some nice mental gymnastics.
I don't remember where I wrote it was a good thing what the WTAMU president was doing. In fact I said I disagree with it.

I was simply pointing out the reality of the world we live in and the rules of the game that the leftist want to live/play by

---

Meh.

Not a fan of you essentially saying "you did this. this is YOUR fault."

The WTAMU president is a religious nutcase who got butthurt over a drag show so now he's going to suppress free speech and waste university resources trying to defend his hurt feelings. He should be ousted for exhibiting such asinine behavior, because he's clearly unfit to run a public university.

---

Lol, sorry you're not a fan of looking at reality.

Quick question though, were you this zealous of trying to get rid of the Aggie president for promoting Aggie United and that certain speech? Did you also think Mike Young was clearly unfit for to run a public university because he liked and promoted one speech over another? Or were you cool with that because you agreed with it?

To me it looks like you are just hypocritical and hate having to actually see the repercussions of your beliefs carried out.

---

Young didn't try to shut down the Spencer event. He did the damage control that any competent university president would do because the university was receiving negative PR, through no fault of his own. Apparently this pissed F16 off more than the Richard Spencer event did.

The event consisted of a bunch of different speakers and artists, and the only message they were promoting was "unity." They had speakers from a bunch of different student organizations. It was a positive event, that was necessary after the fallout from a white supremacist coming to speak at the university and the awful divisiveness of the 2016 election. It was what we needed at that point, honestly.

Pretty crazy to be so mad about that event, even though A&M hosts events with speakers all the time with no controversy. It's disheartening, but not surprising, that the general consensus of F16 was anger about Aggies United but indifference to Richard Spencer. Guess that shows what this group of former students' true values and priorities are.

CanyonAg77 said:

---

Quote:

---

I do remember my wife crying uncontrollably after watching Ms. Doubtfire. She was so hurt

---

Drag Queens

---

Why would my wife be upset at men dressing like women? Why would a man be upset at a woman dressing like a man? People have really gotten this soft?

CanyonAg77 said:

---

Quote:

---

Having an optional drag show

---

Having to take tickets, work security, clean up after, etc. etc. are not optional.+

---

Lol.

If you want to make a case for hostile work environment and use THAT as your evidence, go right ahead. Knock yourself out.

You just want the event shut down because you don't agree with it and you believe free speech applies only to you.

96LawAg said:

---

CanyonAg77 said:

---

Quote:

---

I do remember my wife crying uncontrollably after watching Ms. Doubtfire. She was so hurt

---

Drag Queens

---

Why would my wife be upset at men dressing like women? Why would a man be upset at a woman dressing like a man? People have really gotten this soft?

---

Conservatives have been soft as hell for years. They just won't admit it.

barbacoa taco said:

---

CanyonAg77 said:

---

Quote:

---

Having an optional drag show

---

Having to take tickets, work security, clean up after, etc. etc. are not optional.+

---

Lol.

If you want to make a case for hostile work environment and use THAT as your evidence, go right ahead. Knock yourself out.

You just want the event shut down because you don't agree with it and you believe free speech applies only to you.

---

You would be saying NOTHING if they shut down a minstrel show.

redcrayon said:

---

nai06 said:

---

redcrayon said:

---

All of the sudden, liberals are happy to create a hostile work environment for women.

---

Please explain how an optional drag show after the business day has ended creates a hostile work environment for women?

---

Women employed by the university work at the facilities hosting these events. Do you care about women? Do they have a right to a non-hostile work environment?

It seems you aren't concerned with a hostile environment when it's people you agree with, like autogynephiles, causing it.

---

You still haven't explained what about a drag show makes a work environment hostile. Is it because of what the performers wear? Their makeup? the way the talk?

What is it about drag that creates a hostile work environment. Be specific please.

redcrayon said:

---

If the Racist Student Union decides to sponsor a blackface show at the student union, is that okay with you? Be honest.

Women are becoming fed up with the damage done by transgenderism, autogynephiles, drag queens, etc. Expect more pushback.

---

Barbacoa Taco (awesome username btw) has acknowledged they are fine with universities/govt promoting and affecting speech, as long as it's speech they like. They hate when the hammer is turned on them. So people like BT want you to stay ideologically rigid and support them, while when the roles are reversed they won't come to your aid. They hate the fact that they have played stupid games for the last couple decades and are now winning stupid prizes in the game they set the rules for. And they hate it when you point it out.

They don't want you to push back. The want compliance, wear the ribbon you bigot.

They also wont directly answer your question about being fine with Minstrel Shows. They will spin it. They would 100% be fine if the WTAMU president was cancelling a Minstrel Show, in fact if he wasn't cancelling it he would be a bigot.

barbacoa taco said:

---

96LawAg said:

---

CanyonAg77 said:

---

Quote:

---

I do remember my wife crying uncontrollably after watching Ms. Doubtfire. She was so hurt

---

Drag Queens

---

Why would my wife be upset at men dressing like women? Why would a man be upset at a woman dressing like a man? People have really gotten this soft?

---

Conservatives have been soft as hell for years. They just won't admit it.

---

Love when leftists act tough.

96LawAg said:

---

TJaggie14 said:

---

Lol I feel like you are doing some nice mental gymnastics.
I don't remember where I wrote it was a good thing what the WTAMU president was doing. In fact I said I disagree with it.

I was simply pointing out the reality of the world we live in and the rules of the game that the leftist want to live/play by

---

Ok then you agree the decision should be reversed and the show allowed to proceed?

---

Sure. Like I said I believe in freedom of speech/expression.

While also believing in that I find it lol funny that leftist are getting a taste of their own medicine. I really wish they would acknowledge that and change their ways when it comes to the safe spaces, and cancelling folks, and govt compelled/force speech.

However I won't hold my breath on leftist doing any sorting of thinking or introspection (not calling you a leftist or anything).

TJaggie14 said:

---

redcrayon said:

---

If the Racist Student Union decides to sponsor a blackface show at the student union, is that okay with you? Be honest.

Women are becoming fed up with the damage done by transgenderism, autogynephiles, drag queens, etc. Expect more pushback.

---

Barbacoa Taco (awesome username btw) has acknowledged they are fine with universities/govt promoting and affecting speech, as long as it's speech they like. They hate when the hammer is turned on them. So people like BT want you to stay ideologically rigid and support them, while when the roles are reversed they won't come to your aid. They hate the fact that they have played stupid games for the last couple decades and are now winning stupid prizes in the game they set the rules for. And they hate it when you point it out.

They don't want you to push back. The want compliance, wear the ribbon you bigot.

They also wont directly answer your question about being fine with Minstrel Shows. They will spin it. They would 100% be fine if the WTAMU president was cancelling a Minstrel Show, in fact if he wasn't cancelling it he would be a bigot.

---

For me the answer is if you meet the requirements set forth by the university to hold an event, then you should be allowed to do so without the university shutting you down because they don't like it.

Does this mean there could be some events that I dislike, or disagree with, or find disgusting or racist? Yes. But not everyone is me. And it isn't my desire to force people to conform to my beliefs. So if I believe event X is "wrong," then I might tell that to anyone who will listen. And I might try to convince them not to attend event X. But what I won't do is try to get it shut down so no one can attend it just because I personally disagree with it. That applies to your minstrel show question.
Hope that helps.

TJaggie14 said:

---

redcrayon said:

---

If the Racist Student Union decides to sponsor a blackface show at the student union, is that okay with you? Be honest.

Women are becoming fed up with the damage done by transgenderism, autogynephiles, drag queens, etc. Expect more pushback.

---

Barbacoa Taco (awesome username btw) has acknowledged they are fine with universities/govt promoting and affecting speech, as long as it's speech they like. They hate when the hammer is turned on them. So people like BT want you to stay ideologically rigid and support them, while when the roles are reversed they won't come to your aid. They hate the fact that they have played stupid games for the last couple decades and are now winning stupid prizes in the game they set the rules for. And they hate it when you point it out.

They don't want you to push back. The want compliance, wear the ribbon you bigot.

They also wont directly answer your question about being fine with Minstrel Shows. They will spin it. They would 100% be fine if the WTAMU president was cancelling a Minstrel Show, in fact if he wasn't cancelling it he would be a bigot.

---

As I said before I dont like drag shows and wouldn't go to one. Having said that, it's wrong to equate them with minstrel shows, which were blatantly and intentionally racist performances meant to ridicule an oppressed class of people (black people) specifically for a white audience, and a relic of slavery. It was done from a position of power. And no minstrel show would happen on a university campus today anyway because they almost certainly would violate university rules, pretty much anywhere.

Drag shows aren't the same and they've also been around a long time. They are not done with the intent to oppress women. They are (or at least were at one point) a way for LGBT people to express themselves in a fun way in an accepting environment, kind of in response to ridicule and bullying they had received for the same thing outside of that atmosphere. While you may be offended by them, they are pretty popular with women. I'd say they usually make up a majority of the audience. So I dont think the public agrees with you on this. Or, like i said, those that dont like them can just, you know... not go...