TJaggie14 said:

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96LawAg said:

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TJaggie14 said:

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Lol I feel like you are doing some nice mental gymnastics.
I don't remember where I wrote it was a good thing what the WTAMU president was doing. In fact I said I disagree with it.

I was simply pointing out the reality of the world we live in and the rules of the game that the leftist want to live/play by

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Ok then you agree the decision should be reversed and the show allowed to proceed?

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Sure. Like I said I believe in freedom of speech/expression.

While also believing in that I find it lol funny that leftist are getting a taste of their own medicine. I really wish they would acknowledge that and change their ways when it comes to the safe spaces, and cancelling folks, and govt compelled/force speech.

However I won't hold my breath on leftist doing any sorting of thinking or introspection (not calling you a leftist or anything).

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Look, I don't disagree that this has also been a problem on the left. My objection is to either side doing it. It's disappointing that people on each side cheer this sort of thing. This thread is such a major disappointment to see people agreeing with the government censoring this drag show simply because they personally don't like it.

96LawAg said:

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Look, I don't disagree that this has also been a problem on the left. My objection is to either side doing it. It's disappointing that people on each side cheer this sort of thing. This thread is such a major disappointment to see people agreeing with the government censoring this drag show simply because they personally don't like it.

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Solid point, it is sad to see govt censoring speech and people "cheering" for it. I should apologize if it came off like I was cheering for it, like I said I feel like this is a case of you play stupid games you win stupid prizes.

barbacoa taco said:

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TJaggie14 said:

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redcrayon said:

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If the Racist Student Union decides to sponsor a blackface show at the student union, is that okay with you? Be honest.

Women are becoming fed up with the damage done by transgenderism, autogynephiles, drag queens, etc. Expect more pushback.

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Barbacoa Taco (awesome username btw) has acknowledged they are fine with universities/govt promoting and affecting speech, as long as it's speech they like. They hate when the hammer is turned on them. So people like BT want you to stay ideologically rigid and support them, while when the roles are reversed they won't come to your aid. They hate the fact that they have played stupid games for the last couple decades and are now winning stupid prizes in the game they set the rules for. And they hate it when you point it out.

They don't want you to push back. The want compliance, wear the ribbon you bigot.

They also wont directly answer your question about being fine with Minstrel Shows. They will spin it. They would 100% be fine if the WTAMU president was cancelling a Minstrel Show, in fact if he wasn't cancelling it he would be a bigot.

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As I said before I dont like drag shows and wouldn't go to one. Having said that, it's wrong to equate them with minstrel shows, which were blatantly and intentionally racist performances meant to ridicule an oppressed class of people (black people) specifically for a white audience, and a relic of slavery. It was done from a position of power. And no minstrel show would happen on a university campus today anyway because they almost certainly would violate university rules, pretty much anywhere.

Drag shows aren't the same and they've also been around a long time. They are not done with the intent to oppress women. They are (or at least were at one point) a way for LGBT people to express themselves in a fun way in an accepting environment, kind of in response to ridicule and bullying they had received for the same thing outside of that atmosphere. While you may be offended by them, they are pretty popular with women. I'd say they usually make up a majority of the audience. So I dont think the public agrees with you on this. Or, like i said, those that dont like them can just, you know... not go...

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Lololololololololol!
What did I tell you, told y'all BT would spin it and wouldn't answer the question.

Minstrel Show, Drag Show it all boils down to freedom of speech/expression. You know as well as I do that if a Minstrel Show was planned on WTAMU campus there would be protest and calls for the president to cancel it. That the president would be called a bigot and people would want him fired.

You've said previously you are fine with universities/govt spending money/resources on speech you like.

Lol at you now saying "you know just don't go if you don't like it" but when A&M had a controversial PR issue they needed to promote good speech. Lol barbacoa.

Minstrel shows wouldnt happen today anyway so it's kind of a meaningless comparison. 96law made a good point, if the event isn't breaking any university rules or any laws it should be allowed. A minstrel show wouldnt fall into that category, so yes I'd say it should be cancelled.

You completely misunderstand the Aggies United event. It wasn't one speaker pushing one message. It was a lot of speakers and student groups discussing different messages and the overall theme was unity. I can't imagine being angry about that. Oh, because precious dollars were spent to host it? Again, A&M hosts events all the time. Different departments host speakers, and sometimes the university sponsors events in Rudder theater. Nobody bats an eye at these events, unless it's a Dem politician speaking at the Bush school.

Aggies United was a well-attended, popular event, that was spreading a positive message that was very much needed during such a divisive time. Students who weren't interested didn't go. The only people who were really angry about it were F16 posters. I wonder why.

Lol.
You love you some daddy govt control, just hate when it's applied to you.

This why you will find it hard for people on F16 to come to your aid on this. These are the stupid prizes you win.

Calm down dude. I'm not the one cheering for a university to cancel speech I don't like, you are.

I neither want nor need anyone from this forum to come to my aid on this.

barbacoa taco said:

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Calm down dude. I'm not the one cheering for a university to cancel speech I don't like, you are.

I neither want nor need anyone from this forum to come to my aid on this.

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Is saying lol not being calm for you?

barbacoa taco said:

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Ag87H2O said:

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96LawAg said:

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He's going to cost the school money they don't have defending a lawsuit they're going to lose. Clear viewpoint discrimination violating the first amendment.

It's sad to see so many "conservatives" in here cheering on suppression of free speech just because they are against the content of the speech. Too much of this from both sides.

Allow the speech. Protest it. Start a debate. Don't suppress it.

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It's not suppression of speech, it's preventing an insane action that is misogynistic and derogatory and hurtful towards real women. As president he has every right to deny their request.

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Who exactly gave him permission to white knight on behalf of all of these women who are apparently so offended? Drag shows have been going on for years. I wont say they are without controversy but when have women been so staunchly opposed to them? In my experience women make up a significant amount of the attendees and enjoy them.

This is a clear content-based restriction of speech by a public university president on the basis of his religious beliefs. Clear first amendment violation, and a slam dunk win for the drag show in court. And all it does is bring negative attention to the university and get people riled up.

Maybe next week he'll try to ban students from watching Mrs. Doubtfire.

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I'm completely against it and I am a woman. They flop around on a floor in high heels and heavy makeup thinking that makes them feminine. Trans are taking away women's locker rooms, bathrooms, bully their way on athletic teams, take scholarships, jobs, and victories away from women. They are pretending they can menstruate by inserting frozen catchup into their fake vaginas, need tampons, pretending they can get pregnant, nurse, need ob/gyn care, need cancer screenings for cervix/uterine cancer, and on and on. It's a mental illness.

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Oh, because precious dollars were spent to host it?

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I'd say that spending $300,000 on virtue signaling was a lot of damn money.

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Aggies United was a well-attended, popular event,

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Six thousand people, many of them bussed-in outside agitators, on a campus of over 70,000, in a community of over a quarter million, doesn't seem like a popular event.

https://www.texastribune.org/2018/03/09/texas-m-spent-more-quarter-million-dollars-draw-attention-richard-spen/

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But those three hours cost the university nearly $300,000 roughly $50 for each of the 6,000 people that attended. The school spent $66,000 to rent and staff the school's football field, and $4,000 for different insurance policies.

The figures were found in nearly 100 pages of receipts and invoices provided to The Texas Tribune through an open records request. Among the charges were $50,000 the university paid to book the musician Ben Rector, $1,700 for a huge banner, $750 to ship that banner, $5,000 for food like "an elaborate display of seasonal local and tropical fresh fruits" ($995), and 100 deluxe sandwich boxes ($878.50).

$1,700 was spent on buttons and, according to a handwritten note scrawled on one receipt, $1,297 was used to purchase "signs directing to different locations."


Amy Smith, an A&M spokeswoman, said. "I worry that another counter program event such as that would actually draw out bad actors today and may not be apt to do it again."

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I'm no fan of drag shows but why do we have a problem with adults choosing to attend them at a public university? We allow all sorts of acts/musician to perform on campuses with no issue.

I find myself wondering if anyone read the actual letter.

Just FYI drag performers are not trans. By definition drag is dressing like the opposite sex. The people doing it live their lives as men and identify as such, but in the drag show they dress as women.

And my response to you is no different from the others. If you dont like it, then dont go. I dont care for drag shows, so I dont go to them. Havent been to one since college and that wasn't even intentional, I just stumbled on it in a bar. But I certainly would never try to shut them down.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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I'm no fan of drag shows but why do we have a problem with adults choosing to attend them at a public university? We allow all sorts of acts/musician to perform on campuses with no issue.

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Bill Burr is coming to campus in April. He's known for being pretty harsh and relentless. Wonder if people will try to shut him down too. Every argument I've heard for "hostile work environment" can be applied to those working on the night of his show.

barbacoa taco said:

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Just FYI drag performers are not trans. By definition drag is dressing like the opposite sex. The people doing it live their lives as men and identify as such, but in the drag show they dress as women.

And my response to you is no different from the others. If you dont like it, then dont go. I dont care for drag shows, so I dont go to them. Havent been to one since college and that wasn't even intentional, I just stumbled on it in a bar. But I certainly would never try to shut them down.

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I don't go and I don't care for trans and drag trying to force their lifestyle on everyone else. Children shouldn't be present at these shows and if they are the clubs should lose their liquor license. I also think parents should be in trouble for bringing their kid. To what extent I'm not sure. I don't favor CPS getting involved on a first offense. Repeated offenses yes. Your job as a parent is to protect your children from sexual predators and grooming.

TAMU1990 said:

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barbacoa taco said:

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Just FYI drag performers are not trans. By definition drag is dressing like the opposite sex. The people doing it live their lives as men and identify as such, but in the drag show they dress as women.

And my response to you is no different from the others. If you dont like it, then dont go. I dont care for drag shows, so I dont go to them. Havent been to one since college and that wasn't even intentional, I just stumbled on it in a bar. But I certainly would never try to shut them down.

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I don't go and I don't care for trans and drag trying to force their lifestyle on everyone else. Children shouldn't be present at these shows and if they are the clubs should lose their liquor license. I also think parents should be in trouble for bringing their kid. To what extent I'm not sure. I don't favor CPS getting involved on a first offense. Repeated offenses yes. Your job as a parent is to protect your children from sexual predators and grooming.

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Good job hitting all the talking points.

TAMU1990 said:

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barbacoa taco said:

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Just FYI drag performers are not trans. By definition drag is dressing like the opposite sex. The people doing it live their lives as men and identify as such, but in the drag show they dress as women.

And my response to you is no different from the others. If you dont like it, then dont go. I dont care for drag shows, so I dont go to them. Havent been to one since college and that wasn't even intentional, I just stumbled on it in a bar. But I certainly would never try to shut them down.

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I don't go and I don't care for trans and drag trying to force their lifestyle on everyone else. Children shouldn't be present at these shows and if they are the clubs should lose their liquor license. I also think parents should be in trouble for bringing their kid. To what extent I'm not sure. I don't favor CPS getting involved on a first offense. Repeated offenses yes. Your job as a parent is to protect your children from sexual predators and grooming.

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Well none of that really applies here because this is a college student run event so all of the attendees are going to be adults. So I guess we're good and there's nothing to argue about!

It's just hard to believe that real women aren't OK with being objectified by biological males as lingerie wearing caricatures strutting around on a stage while gay dudes cheer and jeer. I wonder if this objectification could explain the lack of women in the audience at a topless bar? At least the topless joints are private establishments where this kind of crap belongs and not supported with public funds.

barbacoa taco said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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I'm no fan of drag shows but why do we have a problem with adults choosing to attend them at a public university? We allow all sorts of acts/musician to perform on campuses with no issue.

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Bill Burr is coming to campus in April. He's known for being pretty harsh and relentless. Wonder if people will try to shut him down too. Every argument I've heard for "hostile work environment" can be applied to those working on the night of his show.

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It's different, I'm sure. By the way, I hope not because I love Bill Burr.

nai06 said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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nai06 said:

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Muy said:

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If you want to pretend you enjoy drag queen shows, do it on your own time and private property.

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Should the head of a public university be allowed to dictate the protected legal activity on the campus based on his personal religious views?

Especially when such a show is allowed both by formal policy and state education law?

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To Godwin the thread, a Nazi rally would be a protected legal activity. Should he allow that?

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Under the current rules signed by the governor, potentially yes.

So long as the speakers conduct is not unlawful and the event complies with the policy.

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Lewd behavior is more than likely against the school policy on campus.

Sorry that everything isn't allowed.

barbacoa taco said:

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Ok, so you think they're vile.

Then don't go to them.

Problem solved.

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Not so fast. If they want to have a drag show, have it at a private residence or private business, not a public institution.

Problem solved. Right?

Muy said:

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nai06 said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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nai06 said:

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Muy said:

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If you want to pretend you enjoy drag queen shows, do it on your own time and private property.

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Should the head of a public university be allowed to dictate the protected legal activity on the campus based on his personal religious views?

Especially when such a show is allowed both by formal policy and state education law?

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To Godwin the thread, a Nazi rally would be a protected legal activity. Should he allow that?

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Under the current rules signed by the governor, potentially yes.

So long as the speakers conduct is not unlawful and the event complies with the policy.

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Lewd behavior is more than likely against the school policy on campus.

Sorry that everything isn't allowed.

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Read his letter. It isn't being disallowed because it's lewd.

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Read his letter. It isn't being disallowed because it's lewd.

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Quote:

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Does a drag show preserve a single shred of human dignity?

a performance exaggerating aspects of womanhood (sexuality, femininity, gender)

drag shows stereotype women in cartoon-like extremes

Should I let rest misogynist behavior portraying women as objects

Drag shows are derisive, divisive, and demoralizing misogyny

Demeaning any demeans all

Such conduct runs counter to the purpose of WT

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Good lord, it doesn't actually use the word "lewd", but it's clear to anyone who isn't wearing blinders that he means just that.

I sent one kid to tamu, and one kid to wtamu.

Really happy with WT. I think that the last conservative strongholds will be found in kingsville, Texarkana, canyon, and stephenville.

Pretty amazing to hear lawyers blowing off the notion of hostile workplace. I have attended multiple workshops about micro triggers that emphasize that offensive behavior is in the eye of the beholder. The lawyer on this thread is shouting down a woman who openly is offended by it. You can't have it both ways and yet the ones who wrote the ridiculous rules don't like it when it is used against their ideology. Laughable stance you have taken

Where does it say he did this based on religious beliefs?

CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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Read his letter. It isn't being disallowed because it's lewd.

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Quote:

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Does a drag show preserve a single shred of human dignity?

a performance exaggerating aspects of womanhood (sexuality, femininity, gender)

drag shows stereotype women in cartoon-like extremes

Should I let rest misogynist behavior portraying women as objects

Drag shows are derisive, divisive, and demoralizing misogyny

Demeaning any demeans all

Such conduct runs counter to the purpose of WT

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Good lord, it doesn't actually use the word "lewd", but it's clear to anyone who isn't wearing blinders that he means just that.

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Read what you actually quoted. His thesis is that it's demeaning to women and portrays women in a negative light. That's why he mentions blackface and says drag denigrates women. He doesn't make the argument that its too lewd or sexual in nature.

His argument is absurd and his actions pretty clearly run afoul of university policy and Texas education law. Its already resulted in a lawsuit and cost the school a $100K planned donation. I'm also guessing he under investigation by the university provost.

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His thesis is that it's demeaning to women and portrays women in a negative light. That's why he mentions blackface and says drag denigrates women. He doesn't make the argument that its too lewd or sexual in nature.

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It's demeaning to women because it is lewd and overly sexual. That's exactly what he is saying, and your personal bias is blinding you to that fact.

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cost the school a $100K planned donation

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Link?

barbacoa taco said:

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Just FYI drag performers are not trans. By definition drag is dressing like the opposite sex. The people doing it live their lives as men and identify as such, but in the drag show they dress as women.

And my response to you is no different from the others. If you dont like it, then dont go. I dont care for drag shows, so I dont go to them. Havent been to one since college and that wasn't even intentional, I just stumbled on it in a bar. But I certainly would never try to shut them down.

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Does not mean that they do not have a mental illness.

AgDad121619 said:

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Pretty amazing to hear lawyers blowing off the notion of hostile workplace. I have attended multiple workshops about micro triggers that emphasize that offensive behavior is in the eye of the beholder. The lawyer on this thread is shouting down a woman who openly is offended by it. You can't have it both ways and yet the ones who wrote the ridiculous rules don't like it when it is used against their ideology. Laughable stance you have taken

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Because the arguments about a hostile workplace are nonsensical and just boil down to those specific posters being personally offended by drag shows.

TheMasterplan said:

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Where does it say he did this based on religious beliefs?

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He cites his religious beliefs a few times in his letter. I'm not attacking him for holding these beliefs, but I do have a big problem with him shutting down an event in part because of his beliefs. It's a public university. If he wanted to use his faith in this way then he should have worked for a private religious university.

barbacoa taco said:

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AgDad121619 said:

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Pretty amazing to hear lawyers blowing off the notion of hostile workplace. I have attended multiple workshops about micro triggers that emphasize that offensive behavior is in the eye of the beholder. The lawyer on this thread is shouting down a woman who openly is offended by it. You can't have it both ways and yet the ones who wrote the ridiculous rules don't like it when it is used against their ideology. Laughable stance you have taken

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Because the arguments about a hostile workplace are nonsensical and just boil down to those specific posters being personally offended by drag shows.

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clearly you don't understand that a hostile workplace is based on what an individual is personally offended by. Literally every required HR training session on hostile work environment starts with this premise.

You can't have a 70's Era SI one piece swimsuit poster of an actual biological female on the wall at a university because it creates a hostile environment, but you can have a drag show because it celebrates something something lifestyles. In what universe does that follow a consistent and/or equitable logic path?

The rules are based on what side you are on

I do understand the idea of a hostile workplace.

The big problem here is an optional fundraiser put on by a student organization isn't a workplace. Unless someone can show me that WTAMU employees are being forced to go to the event, which is not the case. Any suit for a hostile workplace would be laughed out of court.