All of the swamp alphabet agencies got worse under Trump. What did he actually do to stand up to them?

1 nickname? Trump was banned from Twitter. Trump was impeached on trumped up Russia charges. Spied on by our intelligence agency and outgoing president. Blamed for basically every covid death. He couldn't say it came from China but couldn't lie and say it didn't.

Objectively DeSantis has maybe faced 1/20th of what Trump has. I dont agree that that is a knock against DeSantis just something to expect to play out differently going forward.

Why does Trump bash Desantis regularly?

Aggie95 said:

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All of the swamp alphabet agencies got worse under Trump. What did he actually do to stand up to them?

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Exactly. DeSantis has fought the culture war in the court of public opinion and gotten a real legislative agenda through his Congress in Florida producing lasting change.

Trump fights the culture war and then whines when his agenda doesn't get implemented.

Which do you prefer?

Irish 2.0 said:

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DeSantis took a purple state and turned it to a R+20 in four years…

He is neither a Trump nor a Crenshaw. He's a Reagan.

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I believe this is accurate.

fixer said:

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Science Denier said:

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DeSantis has not faced that pressure being insulated in Florida. What will he do when the attacks come? And not just some local reporter. 10 articles a day on CBS, NBC, CNN, etc... He's not faced ANYTHING like Trump faced.

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Wow. Imagine writing this 3 years out from when DeSantis was labeled " death santis ".

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An Instagram/tweet is your example?

Thanks for proving my point. I dont care for Trump's style but I possess the intellect to see the necessity and success of it. Your emotions are running high for a Saturday morning. Maybe go for a walk?

Aggie95 said:

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All of the swamp alphabet agencies got worse under Trump. What did he actually do to stand up to them?

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He cleaned out a bunch. Comey Strizk, Page, McCabe to name a few.

Science Denier said:

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AgDev01 said:

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OP is happy Turmp made some mean tweets but fails to realize that he couldn't even stand up to Fauci. These people are so wrapped up in their idolized version of Dear Leader that they cannot accept reality.

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LOL, those obsessed with "tweets" certainly are NOT Trump supporters.

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Yea that's why a red hat posts something sarcastic about no more mean tweets every time dear leader gets owned or peepaw says something dumb, both of which happen often. Y'all miss those tweets hard.

We know you miss them. Desantis could lock up the entire republican party if he just hired a channer to run his twitter account.

BadMoonRisin said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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You've made the wrong choice.

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I love when Concerned Moderates (I have voted Republican my entire life!) try to weigh in on conservative concerns.

Let's listen to these ******s on who to elect. Im sure Mitt Romney and McCain are up their on his most cherished politician effigies.

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Yet another person making an ignorant comment or attempting to insult those who realize the truth. Trump can't win. He's done.

It's also bizarre that someone who wants Desantis to win is a CM. Such a bizarre world some of you live in.

Quote:

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the necessity and success of it

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What is the success of it? Honest question trying to learn how folks view his electability.

texagbeliever said:

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Thanks for proving my point. I dont care for Trump's style but I possess the intellect to see the necessity and success of it. Your emotions are running high for a Saturday morning. Maybe go for a walk?

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You sure about that?

Success? What the actual **** are you talking about? Almost nothing Trump accomplished, which wasn't much to begin with, is still in place. His entire 4 year term has effectively been rolled back and erased.

Judging by the thread title, it looks like you favor Trump because his name is easier to spell.

PanzerAggie06 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Thanks for proving my point. I dont care for Trump's style but I possess the intellect to see the necessity and success of it. Your emotions are running high for a Saturday morning. Maybe go for a walk?

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You sure about that?

Success? What the actual **** are you talking about? Almost nothing Trump accomplished, which wasn't much to begin with, is still in place. His entire 4 year term has effectively been rolled back and erased.

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The inflation kicked off by the trillions he injected into the economy is still going strong, so he has that at least.

Edit - there is also the damage done to kids from letting the schools get shut down that will last a lifetime as well. In fact due to his decisions during covid Trump may have one of the most impactful legacies every, just not one with a positive outcome.

I don't think any of us question Trump's ability to fight (and fight back).

I do think we question if we want another term of the lunacy that is Trump.

zephyr88 said:

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I don't think any of us question Trump's ability to fight (and fight back).

I do think we question if we want another term of the lunacy that is Trump.

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PanzerAggie06 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Thanks for proving my point. I dont care for Trump's style but I possess the intellect to see the necessity and success of it. Your emotions are running high for a Saturday morning. Maybe go for a walk?

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You sure about that?

Success? What the actual **** are you talking about? Almost nothing Trump accomplished, which wasn't much to begin with, is still in place. His entire 4 year term has effectively been rolled back and erased.

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Do I need to explain to you how our government has split powers and Trump was not in fact king? Or do you get that House and Senate influence long term policy much more than the president.

If we had this conversation in person I'd bet it would be less combative and more productive. A bit of a shame.

The reason part of me still wants Trump is because I view the Democrat+Media+DeepState leftist machine as our Republic's current greatest threat. I'd love to shove Trump back down their collective throats in order to show that we won't fall for their tricks any longer and wrest control of our nation back.

texagbeliever said:

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The audience you are talking to, DeSantis fans on this site, have come to the realization that DeSantis is the easier candidate for them to support. Easier being defined as socially acceptable in their church, professional and social circles. Many of whom work backwards to solve why Trump should lose the primary and DeSantis should win. Based not on a neutral assessment of facts but on proving that their desired outcome will come true. It is a common human mental process. The above holds true for many Trump supporters as well. You can generally tell by a DeSantis supporter talking down or a Trump supporter being aggressive/abrasive.

Now you will find posters who can engage and make you think and question what you believe. Those are the good conversations. But they are likely running their course as this topic is repeated twice a week now it seems.

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Liberal here.

DeSantis is so different than Trump.
DeSantis wants to lead this country into something better than before.
This Trump? He wants you worshiping him and giving mouth hummers on demand.

It isn't about this country for Trump. It is all about his Mars sized ego about being the best to you

AgDev01 said:

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did you forget about the time where Trump had both the house and the Senate but failed to get anything of note accomplished?

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Did you see Pence and McConnell tell people to not believe their eyes and instead believe the narrative on Jan 6th? The problem isn't just democrats...

Also what legislation did the house and senate pass that Trump Vetoed? Surely if it was Trump's failure he would have been rejecting good opportunities. Oh thats right it was McCain stopping the repeal of Obama care and a worthless house doing nothing.

Tanya 93 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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The audience you are talking to, DeSantis fans on this site, have come to the realization that DeSantis is the easier candidate for them to support. Easier being defined as socially acceptable in their church, professional and social circles. Many of whom work backwards to solve why Trump should lose the primary and DeSantis should win. Based not on a neutral assessment of facts but on proving that their desired outcome will come true. It is a common human mental process. The above holds true for many Trump supporters as well. You can generally tell by a DeSantis supporter talking down or a Trump supporter being aggressive/abrasive.

Now you will find posters who can engage and make you think and question what you believe. Those are the good conversations. But they are likely running their course as this topic is repeated twice a week now it seems.

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Liberal here.

DeSantis is so different than Trump.
DeSantis wants to lead this country into something better than before.
This Trump? He wants you worshiping him and giving mouth hummers on demand.

It isn't about this country for Trump. It is all about his Mars sized ego about being the best to you

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Needs another star.

AggieVictor10 said:

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Dear diary…

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I occasionally wonder what motivates the diary entry or novella OP's.

blame everyone else but Trump for his inability to build even the smallest coalition.

BTW Trump picked Pence. If he is a problem then Trump certainly shares the blame in that as well.

texagbeliever said:

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AgDev01 said:

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did you forget about the time where Trump had both the house and the Senate but failed to get anything of note accomplished?

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Did you see Pence and McConnell tell people to not believe their eyes and instead believe the narrative on Jan 6th? The problem isn't just democrats...

Also what legislation did the house and senate pass that Trump Vetoed? Surely if it was Trump's failure he would have been rejecting good opportunities. Oh thats right it was McCain stopping the repeal of Obama care and a worthless house doing nothing.

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A good executive leads his own people across the finish line. I loathe McConnell but the blame lies solely with Trump on why his agenda didn't get enacted

Odd when Obama was president the Republicans could pass legislation for him to veto. Odd that they stopped being able to do that. But hey if you want the one problem to be Trump then I guess thats your prerogative. Truth is, unfortunately there are many many problems.

texagbeliever said:

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Thanks for proving my point. I dont care for Trump's style but I possess the intellect to see the necessity and success of it. Your emotions are running high for a Saturday morning. Maybe go for a walk?

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Serious question - what success are you talking about here? The guy has lost literally every election for the party since 2016. He's an anchor on conservatism.

texagbeliever said:

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PanzerAggie06 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Thanks for proving my point. I dont care for Trump's style but I possess the intellect to see the necessity and success of it. Your emotions are running high for a Saturday morning. Maybe go for a walk?

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You sure about that?

Success? What the actual **** are you talking about? Almost nothing Trump accomplished, which wasn't much to begin with, is still in place. His entire 4 year term has effectively been rolled back and erased.

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Do I need to explain to you how our government has split powers and Trump was not in fact king? Or do you get that House and Senate influence long term policy much more than the president.

If we had this conversation in person I'd bet it would be less combative and more productive. A bit of a shame.

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And? What's your point? None of the Presidents, the successful and unsuccessful ones, were Kings and all had to deal with a House and Senate. We learned this in 1st grade.

Successful Presidents, the really good ones, manage to make sure their policies, programs, etc. last long after they leave office. Trump.......nothing. All four years boxed up and stored in the warehouse of failed Presidents.

Trump is too old.

texagbeliever said:

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1 nickname? Trump was banned from Twitter. Trump was impeached on trumped up Russia charges. Spied on by our intelligence agency and outgoing president. Blamed for basically every covid death. He couldn't say it came from China but couldn't lie and say it didn't.

Objectively DeSantis has maybe faced 1/20th of what Trump has. I dont agree that that is a knock against DeSantis just something to expect to play out differently going forward.

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Oh they tried a lot more than that on DeSantis. The thing you are missing is how they responded. DeSantis runs a very, very tight ship internally. He hires people loyal to them and he has a strict no leaks policy. Within 60 days as Governor he cleaned out anyone who showed signs of betrayal and from that point on he had everyone rowing in the same direction and kept building converts.

The press came hard at DeSantis but every time they did and thought they could corner him in a PC he made them look like idiots because he not only speaks clearly he has an IQ of about 170 with an incredible level of recall of detail. He is much smarter than the people asking him questions and he hits them back with facts leaving them stammering. I've never seen a politician better at it honestly. Reagan was great because he had presence and humor but DeSantis actually breaks down the question in real time and destroys the narrative.

Trump was treated unfairly for sure but he also made a LOT of his problems much worse. He seemed to walk into a new rake every other day. When he had the facts and the narrative in his favor he would get distracted and call someone a name or say something stupid allowing the media to change the topic. When the Democrats were fighting among each other he would jump in the middle of it and let them focus on him instead. He had to go through 2 or 3 folks before he could finally find someone loyal. He showed a lack of knowledge and understanding of how government and bureaucracy worked that bit him in the ass time after time. Trump made everything personal as well, if you said nice things about him he loved you and if you didn't he would call you names. It was so frustrating as he would lose so many battles that he could have won.

In the end Trump is Maverick and DeSantis is Iceman. Love Maverick. He's a lot of fun and in some things he's the best. In the end though his constant dumb mistakes kept him from reaching his full potential and lead to his downfall. Iceman isn't quite as sexy but he is extremely competent and just doesn't make mistakes, especially critical ones. He is extremely well prepared and executes flawlessly. In the end he wins the Top Gun Trophy and becomes the Admiral even winning over Maverick who had been his rival.

Bonfire1996 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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AgDev01 said:

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did you forget about the time where Trump had both the house and the Senate but failed to get anything of note accomplished?

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Did you see Pence and McConnell tell people to not believe their eyes and instead believe the narrative on Jan 6th? The problem isn't just democrats...

Also what legislation did the house and senate pass that Trump Vetoed? Surely if it was Trump's failure he would have been rejecting good opportunities. Oh thats right it was McCain stopping the repeal of Obama care and a worthless house doing nothing.

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A good executive leads his own people across the finish line. I loathe McConnell but the blame lies solely with Trump on why his agenda didn't get enacted

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I guess I define own people differently. Having a R doesn't make you one of my people. It is the constant problem of all Ds vote D but not all Rs vote R. At some point that truth across time shows it isn't a single guy problem.
From my perspective, the speaker of the house and senate majority leaders control the financial purses and strings to whip votes in line. They failed to do their jobs. One of those is obviously suspect, McConnell. The other Ryan went from a shooting star to a nobody.

Sticking to your TopGun analogy i think the big difference is who selects the winner. Admiral is selected by accomplished higher ups. They see Maverick as being the guy they want to be. Meanwhile a presidential election is likely decided more by the working class which in this metaphor would be the mechanics, cooks, etc. Those people would be drawn more to the appeal of Iceman. His personality just resonates with them more naturally. He is also respected because he isn't playing the "game". It is the who would you rather grab a beer with test. The guy who is guarded and always on point or the one who shoots the s--t and is an adventure. If you are thinking cocktail bar you are bringing DeSantis if you are going dive bar that is Trump.

Admittedly my comments are based on seeing only the first top gun and your info provided in the post. Apologies if that isn't a fair take.

Science Denier said:

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PanzerAggie06 said:

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Science Denier said:

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Only question I have on DeSantis is will he be a Trump or will he be a Crenshaw? If he ends up winning the primary, great. I will certainly support him. But, can DeSantis do the things needed to start continue the turnaround that Trump managed to do? I don't know.

Trump stood up to the national media. He didn't back down. He has press conferences that lasted for hours and took their best shot. You want to come after me, bring it. Yea, they got some clips, but for the most part, he answered directly and in a way the general public could understand.

DeSantis has not faced that pressure being insulated in Florida. What will he do when the attacks come? And not just some local reporter. 10 articles a day on CBS, NBC, CNN, etc... He's not faced ANYTHING like Trump faced.

The establishment is scared ****less of Trump. They can't control him. They tried everything. MSM attacks? Didn't work. Spying? Didn't work. Impeachment threats? Didn't work. FBI/CIA trying to fake criminal charges? Bring it losers. Going after anyone that will associate with Trump? Didn't budge either. Hell, Trump lost hundreds of millions being our President. Don't care, AMERICA FIRST!!

They tried to censor his narratives with the term "FAKE NEWS". Fake news was all you heard about. So, he proceeds to turn it around and hammers the news with it. He successfully flipped the term "FAKE NEWS" from a media attack on conservative narratives to a term associated with the MSM. They had to change the term to "misinformation". Funny you don't hear fake news any more.

Trump has so much money, he doesn't give a **** what the establishment does? Impeach? bring it ****wads. Court indictments? LOL, I have better lawyers that you ****heads. Media bashing him? I'll hold 2 hour press conferences. Bring it losers

The establishment is powerful. They don't let you do what you want unless they agree. This is why Trump is such a weapon and why they fear him. The tell HIM to STFU about something our they are coming guns-a-blazing. They spy on him 24/7 he responds I HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE. They impeach him because of a phone call, he hammers them non-stop to the public.

FBI/CIA/IRS?MSM. All are powerful weapons of the establishment. Trump said **** off to these, and they came after him. And anyone working for them. Can DeSantis do that? Bush was pretty conservative before becoming president. Look at what they turned him into.

DeSantis may be great and conservative and all, but can he withstand the barrage that Trump withstood? FBI, CIA, secret service and even his own party were forced by the establishment to back-stab him at every turn. Will DeSantis back down when threatened? If they tell him they will impeach him for a phone call, what will he do? If they tell him they are about to indict him for something stupid, will he bring a team of lawyers that make it go away?

I guess time will tell. You KNOW Trump will fight and use his resources to fight. He's proven it.

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Stopped reading at the bolded part. Insulated? Wow.

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Hmmmm. Insulated triggered you? Let's review the term "insulated".

1. Please tell me when the FBI/CIA spied on him?
2. When did his own party stab him in the back in Florida?
3. When were ANY of his team threatened with criminal investigations?
4. What day were there 20 articles attacking him on different topics?
5. When was he brought up on impeachment charges for making a phone call?
6. You saw how George Bush was insulated being governor of Texas. Sure, he faced some media bashing, but when he had the full weight of the establishment on him, he folded.

By insulated, I'm not talking about normal media bashing that every republican candidate faces. No, the pressure I'm talking about is the full weight of the establshment coming at you. FBI, CIA, IRS, MSM, even republican congressmen.

Yes, insulated is exactly what DeSantis has had up to now. Just like Bush. Just like Crenshaw. Just like most of the Republicans that go to DC, only to fold under the new pressures they have never faced before.

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1. Please tell me when the FBI/CIA spied on him?
Trump kept Comey instead of firing him and he didn't put in his guys at the CIA either. He appointed that idiot Sessions as his AG. Was he mistreated? Absolutely, Trump just wasn't ready for what was coming, DeSantis is.

2. When did his own party stab him in the back in Florida?
They tried early on, Crist was a Republican before if you recall. He just outmaneuvered them and they realized the only game in town was to get on Team DeSantis.

3. When were ANY of his team threatened with criminal investigations?
They tried to go after him multiple times on Covid. Did you not follow the Disney drama? Remember the Clerk who was a media darling that tried to say he lied? How about the Tampa Soros DA he got removed? DeSantis knows how to play and put people around him that fight back hard. He's a serious legal mind himself as well.

This is actually a great point about DeSantis. He knows how to counter punch and do so in a way that leaves no room to change the narrative. Then he goes on offense. Disney lost their tax breaks. The Clerk was prosecuted. The DA got removed and is finding they are losing their lawsuit to be reinstated. Every time he takes one down it also sends a message you better be very careful if you come after him because he will take your ass out.

4. What day were there 20 articles attacking him on different topics?
Is this a serous question? Did you follow Covid news at all when every day it was all about how wonderful Cuomo was in NY while DeSantis was going to kill everyone in Florida.

5. When was he brought up on impeachment charges for making a phone call?
DeSantis is a lawyer and is a lot more careful in his words and actions. That's why every attempt to come after him has fallen flat, he knows the game better than they do.

6. You saw how George Bush was insulated being governor of Texas. Sure, he faced some media bashing, but when he had the full weight of the establishment on him, he folded.
George Bush isn't remotely as conservative or intelligent as DeSantis. If he weren't a 3rd Gen politician no one would have known who he was. His strength was actually being an Establishment guy as well and he made no bones about it. DeSantis is the polar opposite of that as a Founder of the Freedom Caucus and based on his actions as Governor. His position on Ukraine was the last serious question there and he is aligned with Trump.

Look I get it in terms of the Trump love. I get how he wasn't treated fairly. In the end though he had his shot and one of his greatest weaknesses is illustrated by your post. To Trump nothing was ever his fault. He refused to acknowledge or admit mistakes. Hell he is still bragging about his endorsement from Lindsay Graham (wonder what job he is promising him) and supported Ronna McDaniel who is second only to McConnell in terms of Swamp Creatures. He also has a weakness for anyone that says nice things about him, he just wants to be loved and will always be vulnerable to folks that manipulate him. Trump also shows no signs of learning, he's almost 80 and isn't going to change. Make no mistake either, the Democrats and Media definitely want Trump as the GOP nominee.

valvemonkey91 said:

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AgDev01 said:

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OP is happy Turmp made some mean tweets but fails to realize that he couldn't even stand up to Fauci. These people are so wrapped up in their idolized version of Dear Leader that they cannot accept reality.

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When you are surrounded by swamp rat "advisors" and they recommend supposed experts in their fields, what else do you have to go on? Come up with a better reason, Hoss.

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This is actually another great point. Trump chose Fauci as the face of Covid response and paid the price. He didn't do his homework and created a monster that inevitably he couldn't control and grew more powerful than him.

DeSantis on the other hand chose Joe Lapado who he appointed as Surgeon General. Lapado was a serious scientist that hit back hard on Covid.