MJ20/20 said:

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Kursk ended up just as it appeared at the time, a classic rope a dope.

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Yep. Pretty brilliant of the Ukrainians to dope Russian into committing men and material to that region and divert their forces from elsewhere.

Tswizsle said:

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Uke can't sustain this much attrition matter of time before Russia ends this

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Ends it with what? When? Have you actually looked at the maps?

nortex97 said:

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LOL, so now we are shipping coal from WV/KY to Kiev too? That sounds…efficient.

Does no one read the companies statements They own 14 mines in Virginia, West Virginia and Kentucky and already announced plans to have coal from the United States and Poland. https://t.co/WzAUYVW6y3

— Intelschizo (@Schizointel) October 13, 2024

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Well, can't use it in the US anymore...

Between left wing regulations and the low cost of natural gas, we're using a lot less here.

But, if you can make some money selling it to Ukraine....

Yep. American coal workers benefiting from this aid. American defense workers benefiting from this war. And the American soldier benefiting from someone someone else doing the fighting.


This aid has been overwhelmingly great for the American people. And cheap to boot.

Teslag said:

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Yep. American coal workers benefiting from this aid. American defense workers benefiting from this war. And the American soldier benefiting from someone someone else doing the fighting.


This aid has been overwhelmingly great for the American people. And cheap to boot.

---

Not so great for dead Ukranian's or Russian's but you wouldn't care about that.

Death on the cheap, that's the ticket!!!

Ag with kids said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Ag with kids said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Tswizsle said:

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People still think uke can win this war? Lol

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If any are brave enough to answer you, they'll just change the definition of win, or go on some long tangent about how much Russia lost. I doubt you'll get a response from a Uke though, Ukraine has been getting steadily pushed back for what feels like several months now - and Kursk hasn't changed anything.

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Russia wanted ALL of Ukraine.

Russia will not get all of Ukraine.

The lines will end close to where they are.

That's a HUGE win for the Ukrainians.

---

Russia wanted all of Ukraine.

Ukraine wanted all of Ukraine (back).

Russia will end up with more Ukraine than it had when this started.

Ukraine will end up with less.

That is not a win, and you look foolish trying to pretend that it is.

---

After Ukraine was invaded by Putin, anything better than Ukraine being completely annexed by Russia is a win.

When the invasion started, everyone expected it to be over within weeks.

PUTIN expected it to be over in weeks.

It is not over.

Ukraine will not be part of Russia, even if some territory will be.

THAT is a win for Ukraine.

They are fighting over the details right now. Russia is losing lots of men and materiel to gain small chunks of land. Ukraine is losing far fewer men and materiel to defend it. And during that, Russia has now lost land.

---

After Russia invaded, offers were made to end all hostilities in exchange for the region Russia wanted and already has completely occupied.

Russia did not begin by wanting all of Ukraine.

Those discussions were scuttled by the west in order to prolong and use it as a proxy war and enrich the Military Industrial Complex.

This loss of life was entirely unnecessary.

What Ukraine was doing in its eastern regions to ethnic Russians was wrong.

Russia also needed the area for sea access which Ukraine was telling them they would lose....especially if Ukraine joined NATO as was threatened.

If you address both of these issues the war never happens.

Hundreds of thousands of lives saved.

And noone spends a cent.

Once again....Russia did not initially want all of Ukraine. Russia has almost met all of their objectives.

All that money and all those lives have been an utter waste.

Grapes said:

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Teslag said:

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Yep. American coal workers benefiting from this aid. American defense workers benefiting from this war. And the American soldier benefiting from someone someone else doing the fighting.


This aid has been overwhelmingly great for the American people. And cheap to boot.

---

Not so great for dead Ukranian's or Russian's but you wouldn't care about that.

Death on the cheap, that's the ticket!!!

---

That's 100% Putin's fault.

And the reason the Ukrainians are fighting is because they don't want to be enslaved by Russia.

May I assume you'd think being a slave is better than fighting to prevent it?

Ags4DaWin said:

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Ag with kids said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Ag with kids said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Tswizsle said:

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People still think uke can win this war? Lol

---

If any are brave enough to answer you, they'll just change the definition of win, or go on some long tangent about how much Russia lost. I doubt you'll get a response from a Uke though, Ukraine has been getting steadily pushed back for what feels like several months now - and Kursk hasn't changed anything.

---

Russia wanted ALL of Ukraine.

Russia will not get all of Ukraine.

The lines will end close to where they are.

That's a HUGE win for the Ukrainians.

---

Russia wanted all of Ukraine.

Ukraine wanted all of Ukraine (back).

Russia will end up with more Ukraine than it had when this started.

Ukraine will end up with less.

That is not a win, and you look foolish trying to pretend that it is.

---

After Ukraine was invaded by Putin, anything better than Ukraine being completely annexed by Russia is a win.

When the invasion started, everyone expected it to be over within weeks.

PUTIN expected it to be over in weeks.

It is not over.

Ukraine will not be part of Russia, even if some territory will be.

THAT is a win for Ukraine.

They are fighting over the details right now. Russia is losing lots of men and materiel to gain small chunks of land. Ukraine is losing far fewer men and materiel to defend it. And during that, Russia has now lost land.

---

After Russia invaded, offers were made to end all hostilities in exchange for the region Russia wanted and already has completely occupied.

Russia did not begin by wanting all of Ukraine.

Those discussions were scuttled by the west in order to prolong and use it as a proxy war and enrich the Military Industrial Complex.

This loss of life was entirely unnecessary.

What Ukraine was doing in its eastern regions to ethnic Russians was wrong.

Russia also needed the area for sea access which Ukraine was telling them they would lose....especially if Ukraine joined NATO as was threatened.

If you address both of these issues the war never happens.

Hundreds of thousands of lives saved.

And noone spends a cent.

Once again....Russia did not initially want all of Ukraine. Russia has almost met all of their objectives.

All that money and all those lives have been an utter waste.

---

The bolded is 100% untrue.

There's a reason the initial invasion went straight towards Kiev and not just near the Donbas.

Putin has said many times that he thinks Ukraine should be part of Russia. Not the Donbas, but all of Ukraine.

Grapes said:

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Teslag said:

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Yep. American coal workers benefiting from this aid. American defense workers benefiting from this war. And the American soldier benefiting from someone someone else doing the fighting.


This aid has been overwhelmingly great for the American people. And cheap to boot.

---

Not so great for dead Ukranian's or Russian's but you wouldn't care about that.

Death on the cheap, that's the ticket!!!

---

The deaths lie at the feet of Vladimir Putin. They are on him and him alone. No invasions, no deaths.

Agreed, Putin literally wrote a manifesto about how all of Ukraine was really Russia and the Ukrainian people actually didn't even exist. It was part of his initial reason for invading.

Don't take my word for it, take his…

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66181

Meh....

I don't believe it. If that was the case how do you explain Russia pursuing talks so shortly after invasion?

Regarding the fact they "went after Kiev".

Maybe they did maybe they didn't.

It could have been a military feint.
It could have been an effort to get to leadership to force talks.

If you can explain away why the Russians wanted to talk and come to an agreement so short after their invasion that is different than wanting to come to an agreement then I might consider ur assertion.

Teslag said:

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Agreed, Putin literally wrote a manifesto about how all of Ukraine was really Russia and the Ukrainian people actually didn't even exist. It was part of his initial reason for invading.

Don't take my word for it, take his…

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66181

---

Yep, completely unprovoked invasion. Zero threat to ethnic Russians within the Ukraine, zero threat to Russia thru NATO advancement. You know NATO, that organization who's specific rasion d'etre is war with Russia.

Teslag = Dick Cheney!

Quote:

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If that was the case how do you explain Russia pursuing talks so shortly after invasion?

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Because those "talks" for the "deal" basically handed Ukrainian sovereignty to Russia by default and would save Russia countless treasure and lives.

It wasn't peace deal. It was an offer of conditional surrender.

Grapes said:

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Teslag said:

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Agreed, Putin literally wrote a manifesto about how all of Ukraine was really Russia and the Ukrainian people actually didn't even exist. It was part of his initial reason for invading.

Don't take my word for it, take his…

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66181

---

Yep, completely unprovoked invasion. Zero threat to ethnic Russians within the Ukraine, zero threat to Russia thru NATO advancement. You know NATO, that organization who's specific rasion d'etre is war with Russia.

Teslag = Dick Cheney!

---

Russia cared about none of this. It was and is always a land grab.

They invaded because they wanted Ukraine to be a part of Russia.

Grapes said:

---

Teslag said:

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Agreed, Putin literally wrote a manifesto about how all of Ukraine was really Russia and the Ukrainian people actually didn't even exist. It was part of his initial reason for invading.

Don't take my word for it, take his…

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66181

---

Yep, completely unprovoked invasion. Zero threat to ethnic Russians within the Ukraine, zero threat to Russia thru NATO advancement. You know NATO, that organization who's specific rasion d'etre is war with Russia.

Teslag = Dick Cheney!

---

NATO's only "threat" to Russia is stopping them from being able to attack and invade whatever neighboring countries they want to. I wonder why all of these countries around Russia have been so eager to join NATO?

The historical ignorance of citing Nato expansionism as a fait accompli of diplomatic victory always strikes me as silly at best. If anything, it's clear evidence of failure, imho, as a provocation leading to the present war of attrition with a weak and now doomed neighbor of Russia:

Quote:

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For some, the way NATO agreed, in 1994, to welcome former Soviet allies "betrayed a catastrophic failure of imagination," Daniel Treisman, a Russia expert at the University of California, Los Angeles, told me. The Czech Republic, Hungary, and Polandthree former Warsaw Pact members aligned with Moscowjoined in 1999. "The major international challenge of the nineteen-nineties was to integrate Russia securely into the Western world," Treisman said. The West should have generated new financial, commercial, cultural, and political linksand new European security arrangementsto complement NATO. "If we had succeeded in that, the security of Eastern Europe would have taken care of itself," he said. Instead, the West failed to understand how Moscow would perceive NATO's guns edging eastward. Seven other nations, including three former Soviet republics and three more Warsaw Pact countries, became members in 2004. Discussion about adding Ukraine and Georgia, which began in 2008long before either qualified for membershipalso invited Putin "to call our bluff," Treisman said. Four other countries joined between 2009 and 2020. Thirty nations, together, now have nearly four times more military personnel than Russia and also many more tanks, warplanes, and artillery. The Kremlin, however, has a larger arsenal of tactical nuclear weapons near Europe's borders.

Even long-time supporters of U.S. and European security guarantees for Finland and Sweden are concerned about the consequences of the two northern nations joining the alliance. "Over all, Russia certainly loses here. But a weak and humiliated Russia is a dangerous Russia," Anne-Marie Slaughter, a former director of policy planning at the State Department who is now the chief executive of the New America think tank, told me. She cited the history of a "weak and humiliated" Germany between the world wars that opened the way for Hitler's rise to power and aggression across Europe. "Putin may well be able to stay in power for even longer on the strength of 'the foreign enemy' encroaching on Russia's borders," she said.

---

Quote:

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The curious irony is that, "for the longest time, Putin himself was at peace with the decision" to enlarge NATO, Gottemoeller, who is now at Stanford University, told me. In 2002, Putin signed the Rome Declaration, which created the NATO-Russia Council and its agenda of joint projects, such as containing nuclear proliferation and preventing drug smuggling from Afghanistan. Putin may exploit the perception of a European enemy because it helps him sustain power, Gottemoeller said. At the same time, she added, "it's not a good long-term prognosisRussia permanently at odds with its European neighbors, members of NATO and the E.U. or not."

To ease the transition, Niinistö, the Finnish President, personally called Putin to explain the decision. "The surprise was that he took it so calmly," Niinisto told CNN. "It seems that there are no immediate problems coming." On Monday, Finland's border with Russia was still quiet. "War in Ukraine has had very minor influences to the traffic," Commander Kimmo Ahvonen, of the Finnish Border Guard, told me. "Border situation has been stable all the time, and coöperation with Russian authorities is working quite normally."
The longer-term reality is a wider and deeper fissure dividing NATO and Russia. Europe is fractured, Alexander Stubb, the former Finnish Prime Minister, told CNN. A new Iron Curtain pits "an aggressive authoritarian, totalitarian revisionist and imperialist Russia" against dozens of European democracies working in tandem to isolate it. "That's the future," he said. Whatever the new sense of security is today in Finland and Sweden, every action generates a reactionand further NATOexpansion may well, too.

---

Even Dem-mouthpieces like the New Yorker and CNN once called this out. Empowering the Nuland's of our foreign policy apparatus doesn't make any of us safer, nor Europe. Nato expansion if anything is emblematic of the utter diplomatic and political failure this century to bring Russia into more of an alliance. Serbia and Turkey, as well as India and Brazil, aligning/joining BRICS+ and aligning thus with Russia and China against the US broadly all the moreso, in vastly more significant ways than Finland and Sweden joining Nato.

In Vladivostok, Serbia's US-sanctioned Deputy PM Aleksandar Vulin tells Putin that Serbia under President Vucic will never:

• join NATO,
• impose sanctions on Russia,
• participate in any anti-Russian actions or hysteria.

Putin has invited Vucic to the BRICS Summit in Kazan. pic.twitter.com/ZO1rzpR6g8

— Jakub Bielamowicz (@KubaBielamowicz) September 4, 2024

Jeffrey Sachs CIA Coups Around the World

The U.S. is the only country in the world that relies on regime change.

We are the country that makes a living by overthrowing other governments.

And that's not a good vocation for us. pic.twitter.com/HFBE0ypw0j

— Ignorance, the root and stem of all evil (@ivan_8848) October 14, 2024

nortex97 said:

---

The historical ignorance of citing Nato expansionism as a fait accompli of diplomatic victory always strikes me as silly at best. If anything, it's clear evidence of failure, imho, as a provocation leading to the present war of attrition with a weak and now doomed neighbor of Russia:

Quote:

---

For some, the way NATO agreed, in 1994, to welcome former Soviet allies "betrayed a catastrophic failure of imagination," Daniel Treisman, a Russia expert at the University of California, Los Angeles, told me. The Czech Republic, Hungary, and Polandthree former Warsaw Pact members aligned with Moscowjoined in 1999. "The major international challenge of the nineteen-nineties was to integrate Russia securely into the Western world," Treisman said. The West should have generated new financial, commercial, cultural, and political linksand new European security arrangementsto complement NATO. "If we had succeeded in that, the security of Eastern Europe would have taken care of itself," he said. Instead, the West failed to understand how Moscow would perceive NATO's guns edging eastward. Seven other nations, including three former Soviet republics and three more Warsaw Pact countries, became members in 2004. Discussion about adding Ukraine and Georgia, which began in 2008long before either qualified for membershipalso invited Putin "to call our bluff," Treisman said. Four other countries joined between 2009 and 2020. Thirty nations, together, now have nearly four times more military personnel than Russia and also many more tanks, warplanes, and artillery. The Kremlin, however, has a larger arsenal of tactical nuclear weapons near Europe's borders.

Even long-time supporters of U.S. and European security guarantees for Finland and Sweden are concerned about the consequences of the two northern nations joining the alliance. "Over all, Russia certainly loses here. But a weak and humiliated Russia is a dangerous Russia," Anne-Marie Slaughter, a former director of policy planning at the State Department who is now the chief executive of the New America think tank, told me. She cited the history of a "weak and humiliated" Germany between the world wars that opened the way for Hitler's rise to power and aggression across Europe. "Putin may well be able to stay in power for even longer on the strength of 'the foreign enemy' encroaching on Russia's borders," she said.

---

Quote:

---

The curious irony is that, "for the longest time, Putin himself was at peace with the decision" to enlarge NATO, Gottemoeller, who is now at Stanford University, told me. In 2002, Putin signed the Rome Declaration, which created the NATO-Russia Council and its agenda of joint projects, such as containing nuclear proliferation and preventing drug smuggling from Afghanistan. Putin may exploit the perception of a European enemy because it helps him sustain power, Gottemoeller said. At the same time, she added, "it's not a good long-term prognosisRussia permanently at odds with its European neighbors, members of NATO and the E.U. or not."

To ease the transition, Niinistö, the Finnish President, personally called Putin to explain the decision. "The surprise was that he took it so calmly," Niinisto told CNN. "It seems that there are no immediate problems coming." On Monday, Finland's border with Russia was still quiet. "War in Ukraine has had very minor influences to the traffic," Commander Kimmo Ahvonen, of the Finnish Border Guard, told me. "Border situation has been stable all the time, and coöperation with Russian authorities is working quite normally."
The longer-term reality is a wider and deeper fissure dividing NATO and Russia. Europe is fractured, Alexander Stubb, the former Finnish Prime Minister, told CNN. A new Iron Curtain pits "an aggressive authoritarian, totalitarian revisionist and imperialist Russia" against dozens of European democracies working in tandem to isolate it. "That's the future," he said. Whatever the new sense of security is today in Finland and Sweden, every action generates a reactionand further NATOexpansion may well, too.

---

Even Dem-mouthpieces like the New Yorker and CNN once called this out. Empowering the Nuland's of our foreign policy apparatus doesn't make any of us safer, nor Europe. Nato expansion if anything is emblematic of the utter diplomatic and political failure this century to bring Russia into more of an alliance. Serbia and Turkey, as well as India and Brazil, aligning/joining BRICS+ and aligning thus with Russia and China against the US broadly all the moreso, in vastly more significant ways than Finland and Sweden joining Nato.

In Vladivostok, Serbia's US-sanctioned Deputy PM Aleksandar Vulin tells Putin that Serbia under President Vucic will never:

• join NATO,
• impose sanctions on Russia,
• participate in any anti-Russian actions or hysteria.

Putin has invited Vucic to the BRICS Summit in Kazan. pic.twitter.com/ZO1rzpR6g8

— Jakub Bielamowicz (@KubaBielamowicz) September 4, 2024

Jeffrey Sachs CIA Coups Around the World

The U.S. is the only country in the world that relies on regime change.

We are the country that makes a living by overthrowing other governments.

And that's not a good vocation for us. pic.twitter.com/HFBE0ypw0j

— Ignorance, the root and stem of all evil (@ivan_8848) October 14, 2024

---

NATO would have no need to "expand" if Russia didn't constantly attack and invade its neighbors. Diplomacy is not always a realistic solution, especially when dealing with a murdering dictator that has no care for human life and who is only interested in expansion.

Again, no threat from NATO to Russia exists outside of removing the ability to invade the countries around it. It's a convenient boogeyman for Putin and the pro Russia/isolationist far right but it has no basis in objective logic.

Quote:

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NATO would have no need to "expand" if Russia didn't constantly attack and invade its neighbors. Diplomacy is not always a realistic solution, especially when dealing with a murdering dictator that has no care for human life and who is only interested in expansion.

Again, no threat from NATO to Russia exists outside of removing the ability to invade the countries around it. It's a convenient boogeyman for Putin and the pro Russia/isolationist far right but it has no basis in objective logic.

---

But for our state department and Democrat party friends like Jimmy Carter (not accusing you of this), paying people like the mullah's off directly has been an option. In fact, we've partnered near and far with folks as despicable as Castro and Mugabe in CIA regime changes at various times over the past 70 years.

Russia has been afforded a special place politically and as far as trade/spycraft, and used as a gambit in US politics as well against conservatives/outsiders from Reagan to Trump.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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Grapes said:

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Teslag said:

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Agreed, Putin literally wrote a manifesto about how all of Ukraine was really Russia and the Ukrainian people actually didn't even exist. It was part of his initial reason for invading.

Don't take my word for it, take his…

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66181

---

Yep, completely unprovoked invasion. Zero threat to ethnic Russians within the Ukraine, zero threat to Russia thru NATO advancement. You know NATO, that organization who's specific rasion d'etre is war with Russia.

Teslag = Dick Cheney!

---

NATO's only "threat" to Russia is stopping them from being able to attack and invade whatever neighboring countries they want to. I wonder why all of these countries around Russia have been so eager to join NATO?

---

Based on our Debt, I would say getting free money is the reason.

samurai_science said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

Grapes said:

---

Teslag said:

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Agreed, Putin literally wrote a manifesto about how all of Ukraine was really Russia and the Ukrainian people actually didn't even exist. It was part of his initial reason for invading.

Don't take my word for it, take his…

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66181

---

Yep, completely unprovoked invasion. Zero threat to ethnic Russians within the Ukraine, zero threat to Russia thru NATO advancement. You know NATO, that organization who's specific rasion d'etre is war with Russia.

Teslag = Dick Cheney!

---

NATO's only "threat" to Russia is stopping them from being able to attack and invade whatever neighboring countries they want to. I wonder why all of these countries around Russia have been so eager to join NATO?

---

Based on our Debt, I would say getting free money is the reason.

---

What "free money" are Sweden/Finland getting from the US for joining NATO?

The US and the MIC were never ever going to allow Russia to be part of NATO or in any Western alliance.

To do that would of removed any real reason for their business, creating and selling weapons.

They needed an bad boogey man, and China could not fit the bill at the time.

Secondly the Soros backed Obama/Biden'Harris Dems could never allow a predominantly white "Christian" nation to by part of a western European alliance. That would be the death knell to their ultimate goal, the destruction of the west to bring about their New World Order.

There is absolutely no conspiracy here at all, this is just straight up fact. That is why we have seen the opening up of Europe to the hoards of Islam. It's why you have seen the opening of our boarder to every illegal entrant, while those, like my son in law, have visas denied for their wives and families.

Ukraine has been a Soros/Cabal corrupt state for many years.

Anyone who does not admit that is either extremely dense or part of the corruption.

Quote:

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Secondly the Soros backed Obama/Biden'Harris Dems could never allow a predominantly white "Christian" nation to by part of a western European alliance.

---

Finland just became a member of NATO and is 65% Christian and over 90% white.

Quote:

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Secondly the Soros backed Obama/Biden'Harris Dems could never allow a predominantly white "Christian" nation to by part of a western European alliance.

---

Sweden just became a member of NATO and is 62% Christian and 80% white.

Quote:

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Secondly the Soros backed Obama/Biden'Harris Dems could never allow a predominantly white "Christian" nation to by part of a western European alliance.

---

Croatia joined NATO under the Obama/Biden administration and is often considered the whitest country in the world (99.3%) and is 82% Christian.

And you conveniently forgot to mention something that none of these countries provide that only Russia could provide at the time.

"The US and the MIC were never ever going to allow Russia to be part of NATO or in any Western alliance.

To do that would of removed any real reason for their business, creating and selling weapons.

They needed an bad boogey man, and China could not fit the bill at the time."

Secondly, Finland and Sweden, are about as "Christian" as the US is, which means not much,

But that is not the point. Both have progressive governments that are now starting to have to deal with a mass Islamic immigration issue. They also are liberal in their LGBT stances.

To compare any of these countries to what Russia represented is laughable.

Quote:

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Secondly, Finland and Sweden, are about as "Christian" as the US is, which means not much,

---

You used the word "predominantly".

predominantly pri-d-m-nnt-l -dm-nnt-
: for the most part : MAINLY

Does greater than 60% count as most?

I'll add that definition too.

most
adjective
1
: greatest in quantity, extent, or degree
the most ability
2
: the majority of

Russia is 72% white with the rest being asiatic people, less than both Finland and Sweden.

Sitrep: Russia tightens ring on region in advance of the great 'victory plan' reveal. Ukrainian take:

Quote:

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"Suicidal mania" Lvov TV presenter buries dreams of 1991 borders.
Ukraine's total losses in two and a half years of war against Russia have reached such levels that ending the war under any conditions would be a blessing. This was stated on the NTA channel by Lvov Russophobic TV presenter Ostap Drozdov, a PolitNavigator correspondent reports.
"The situation is absolutely Pyrrhic. No matter how it ends, it is already so destructive that the end [of hostilities] will already be regarded as a success," Drozdov said.
"Losses are growing every day, I am not even talking about the forever destroyed territories, where, it seems to me, a living person will never live again. That is why all narratives, dreams, and mania about supposedly restoring life on the borders of 1991 seem suicidal to me. Those borders no longer physically exist. And the rethinking of the scale of what war is will still happen," added the TV nationalist, who himself recently incited hatred and bloodthirsty anti-Russian sentiments.

---

Rusi (British) editorial: "The impending betrayal of Ukraine" simplicius summary:

Quote:

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The most shocking part of the article, which mimics the current sentiment on the pro-UA side, is the totally oblivious inability to understand that Ukraine's worst-case option is not merely to "wrap things up as they stand now", as if Russia is biting-at-the-bit to play along. This is deliberate obfuscation meant to keep the biggest moral blow from devastating the last remaining dregs of Ukraine's morale. They continue to operate under the assumed stance that Ukraine's "capitulation" merely represents signing an unfavorable peace deal with Russia to create a Korean-style DMZ at the current contact line. If only.

In reality, Russia continues to signal maximalist intentions, which means Ukraine stands to lose far, far more than its tawdry pundits allow themselves to imagine.

---

Again, I think a landlocked Ukraine might make more sense, but that means going at least to Odessa.

A good thread of falsehoods held out by our press/elsewhere;

3. Russia's invasion was unprovoked!

False. If the last two and a half years have shown us anything it is that by 2022 Ukraine was an armed camp, spoiling for war and run by people with a fanatical hatred of Russia and Russians.

Putin gave Zelensky exactly what he asked for. pic.twitter.com/Q8ggaCcsxn

— Armchair Warlord (@ArmchairW) October 15, 2024

A thread on the mayor of Kiev, human trafficker:

Today I'll introduce the King of sex-industry in Ukraine, Vitaliy Klitchko (@Vitaliy_Klychko).
He controls the biggest network of strip-clubs. 100 brothels only in Kyiv!
He sells hundreds of girls to EU and the US. He sells drugs in Ukraine.
He also under investigation on… pic.twitter.com/2RzVSXeVCG

— Diana Panchenko 🇺🇦 (@Panchenko_X) October 14, 2024

Shall we say bunny trail? Yea we should. the main point was neither being white or "Christian". Those are generalities to basically state that Russia would of fit in nicely with NATO and western alliance.

That was not going to be allowed for the reasons that I said. But nice distraction.

If you look at history, Russia has always wanted to be included as a European monarchy. and it has always been the west that rebuffs them. This is historical fact and no amount of bunny trails or history revision will change that.

And this total nonsense that Russia just up and decided to invade Ukraine because they want it all to be part of Russia is a total lie. 100%

LOL, the blue-yellow flag brigade on X seem particularly despondent/angry of late.

The fact is they betray Ukraine because they think they can do it with impunity, and Ukrainians have acted too grateful and grovel too much instead of making it clear that they can create massive problems if they are sold out.

— SK Media🇺🇦 (@SpaghettiKozak) October 16, 2024

Moving on…

The US is in no position to bargain anything. Ukraine will capitulate and have its terms dictated to it by Russia.

The next administration would be wise to work out how to restore European security in a world where Russian interests in Ukraine are inviolable.

— John Mills (@zhuk8611) October 15, 2024

Oof. An adviser to Zelensky’s chief of staff says both Democrats and Republicans have been trying to pressure Kyiv to lower its draft age from 25 to 18. Never mind the catastrophic demographic consequences here, but the Americans are apparently citing **the Vietnam War** as…

— Kevin Rothrock (@KevinRothrock) October 16, 2024

South Vietnam as an instructive case point for an American ally is certainly 'something.'

Bausman has several good posts on his timeline from his current trip to Donetsk, as the region recovers from the war. One:

Inside a bombed out US maxpro military truck on a surreal recent battlefield near the front. The amount of wrecked hardware here is astonishing. $100s of millions of our taxes thrown away for nothing. pic.twitter.com/9pVOWtnbQH

— Charles Bausman ☦️ 🇩🇪 🇺🇸 (@CBausman) October 15, 2024

LOL, how about no.

And who put the words into the mouth of the puppet?

No no... this is the end game. The US proxy war / Ukraine gambit ends in 19 days.

— Outcome Thinking (@outcomethinking) October 17, 2024

Trump will end the war, but not on Zelensky-Nuland terms.

⚡️‼️🚨NEW REPORT: https://t.co/7ZK3BGjdwt#war #russia #ukraine #geopolitics #politics pic.twitter.com/G3odQZdhPG

— SIMPLICIUS Ѱ (@simpatico771) October 17, 2024

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[ol]

The fourth is economic ("Peace will come through economic strength and pressure on Russia: in particular, limiting oil prices and exports").

[/ol]

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Quote:

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The fourth point is the most ominous by far. Here it is again:

In fact, we can go out on a limb and say this point is the whole meat and potatoesthe very reason for the existence not only of all other points, but of the war itself. Isn't it so interesting Zelensky unveils this key linchpin only a day or two after the announcement of Ukraine's largest titanium production being sold off for pennies on the dollar?

The most ominous part of it is Zelensky's emphasis on the fact that the agreement has a guardedly "secret" component to be shared only with the top few allies, which he appears to tie into the allies' military protection of their resource 'investments'. What more can one say? This is nothing other than Zelensky's pimping out of his country's economic treasures and future in order to desperately tie NATO militarily to Ukraine's hip. This is just the continuation of the same old plan, except this time via outright bribery: create massive monetary incentive to obligate NATO into sending boots on ground to confront Russia and save Ukraine by virtue or deterrence of WWIII. It's dangling trillions before their noses to entice their help, with the alluded-to most 'secret' component of the deal likely having to do with the sheer preferential nature of the disaster capitalism extraction and economic shock therapy in one.

It's just more of what we already knew, that the Ukrainian game is all about the Western crony elite positioning themselves to pillage Ukraine's resources and industries. For instance, most missed this excerpt from ex-CIA chief Pompeo's recent prank-call with Russian Vovan and Lexus posing as Poroshenko.

Isn't it interesting how the ex-head of the CIA now runs a bank of all things, and that bank is buying up Ukrainian enterprises? Also interesting it happens to be a telecom, just like Vodafone owned by the Azerbaijani oligarch who just bought up the remainder of Ukraine's titanium industry. Virtually every deep state elite involved in the Ukraine debacle has got their fingers in the jar.

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Ukraine, and Russia will feature in this documentary about the swamp/blob/war complex being deployed against President Trump from day 0 of his first term through to today. Notice Vindman's chubby face at the table:

Trailer:https://t.co/qlrnauQ6Ww

— George Papadopoulos (@GeorgePapa19) October 10, 2024

Forever war, comrades.

Ag with kids said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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Ag with kids said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Ag with kids said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Tswizsle said:

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People still think uke can win this war? Lol

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If any are brave enough to answer you, they'll just change the definition of win, or go on some long tangent about how much Russia lost. I doubt you'll get a response from a Uke though, Ukraine has been getting steadily pushed back for what feels like several months now - and Kursk hasn't changed anything.

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Russia wanted ALL of Ukraine.

Russia will not get all of Ukraine.

The lines will end close to where they are.

That's a HUGE win for the Ukrainians.

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Russia wanted all of Ukraine.

Ukraine wanted all of Ukraine (back).

Russia will end up with more Ukraine than it had when this started.

Ukraine will end up with less.

That is not a win, and you look foolish trying to pretend that it is.

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After Ukraine was invaded by Putin, anything better than Ukraine being completely annexed by Russia is a win.

When the invasion started, everyone expected it to be over within weeks.

PUTIN expected it to be over in weeks.

It is not over.

Ukraine will not be part of Russia, even if some territory will be.

THAT is a win for Ukraine.

They are fighting over the details right now. Russia is losing lots of men and materiel to gain small chunks of land. Ukraine is losing far fewer men and materiel to defend it. And during that, Russia has now lost land.

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After Russia invaded, offers were made to end all hostilities in exchange for the region Russia wanted and already has completely occupied.

Russia did not begin by wanting all of Ukraine.

Those discussions were scuttled by the west in order to prolong and use it as a proxy war and enrich the Military Industrial Complex.

This loss of life was entirely unnecessary.

What Ukraine was doing in its eastern regions to ethnic Russians was wrong.

Russia also needed the area for sea access which Ukraine was telling them they would lose....especially if Ukraine joined NATO as was threatened.

If you address both of these issues the war never happens.

Hundreds of thousands of lives saved.

And noone spends a cent.

Once again....Russia did not initially want all of Ukraine. Russia has almost met all of their objectives.

All that money and all those lives have been an utter waste.

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The bolded is 100% untrue.

There's a reason the initial invasion went straight towards Kiev and not just near the Donbas.

Putin has said many times that he thinks Ukraine should be part of Russia. Not the Donbas, but all of Ukraine.

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If you listened to the Putin interview from a few months back, you'd know he's referring to the historical Ukraine, not the lines they drew up a few decades ago.

You mean a few decades ago when Ukraine voted for independence by 90% (even the "ethnic Russian" regions voted for independence) and Russia formally recognized?

Ags4DaWin said:

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Meh....

I don't believe it. If that was the case how do you explain Russia pursuing talks so shortly after invasion?

Regarding the fact they "went after Kiev".

Maybe they did maybe they didn't.

It could have been a military feint.
It could have been an effort to get to leadership to force talks.

If you can explain away why the Russians wanted to talk and come to an agreement so short after their invasion that is different than wanting to come to an agreement then I might consider ur assertion.

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Tesla gives you Putin's own view on Ukraine and how he considers it a part of Russia.

Grapes said:

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Teslag said:

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Agreed, Putin literally wrote a manifesto about how all of Ukraine was really Russia and the Ukrainian people actually didn't even exist. It was part of his initial reason for invading.

Don't take my word for it, take his…

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66181

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Yep, completely unprovoked invasion. Zero threat to ethnic Russians within the Ukraine, zero threat to Russia thru NATO advancement. You know NATO, that organization who's specific rasion d'etre is war with Russia.

Teslag = Dick Cheney!

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Well, that's sure a way to twist the reason it exists.

NATO is a DEFENSIVE organization to PREVENT Russian invasion of its members. I guess you COULD say it exists for war with Russia but that's leaving out the most important part - ONLY IF RUSSIA ATTACKS.