Russia/Ukraine from Another Perspective (Relaunch Part Deux)

606,864 Views | 9883 Replies | Last: 19 hrs ago by nortex97
PlaneCrashGuy
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The jokes are writing themselves


Everything they said would happen under Trump is happening under this imbecile. Everything they say is happening to Russia is happening to us. Do not think for a second this isn't impacting our credibility across the globe.
nortex97
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Sitrep.
Quote:

"Now we are losing this war. This is obvious, this is a fact. We are losing territories, we are losing the best people. Of course, we are losing this war," he complained.
Orban, after meeting with Putin, Xi, and Modi…goes to visit Trump working to resolve the conflict;



Spoiler; nope.
YouBet
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Stat Monitor Repairman said:



Why does Zelensky dress the way he does?

Look like he ordered his entire wardrobe out of the Cheaper than Dirt catalog.

Who told him to do this and what's he trying to do here?


He started doing this early on to show that he was with the people and one of them and not an aloof leader who wasn't involved. Morphed into his calling card from there.

Remember that he's an actor so he was simply doing what he knows to play the part.
nortex97
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Pretty remarkable if it is remotely accurate:



Interesting thread;


Again, the F-16 block 15 MLU frames Ukraine is to deploy 6-12 of this summer (with aviators who have zero combat experience) are not even using a radar employed by the USAF in decades (the original export radar). The avionics/electronics maintenance are largely why these frames were retired in the first place. It's amazing some prognosticate a significant A2A impact, let alone some sort of A2G role for these frames, to me.



Sitrep from RT.
Rongagin71
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YouBet said:

Stat Monitor Repairman said:



Why does Zelensky dress the way he does?

Look like he ordered his entire wardrobe out of the Cheaper than Dirt catalog.

Who told him to do this and what's he trying to do here?


He started doing this early on to show that he was with the people and one of them and not an aloof leader who wasn't involved. Morphed into his calling card from there.

Remember that he's an actor so he was simply doing what he knows to play the part.
Fidel Castro was the first one I can remember that constantly dressed like that,
although Mao also did but probably actually wore it out of necessity.
nortex97
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I realize there are a few other things going on in the world other than this bloody proxy war this month, but just a couple updates:





About right:


Anyway (to quote potatus), Russian forces continue to advance.
PlaneCrashGuy
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In depth analysis of the failed Ukrainian offensive.
nortex97
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Good points.

This applies to the Russia proxy war as well of course;

nortex97
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Excellent discussion comparing the Ukrainian situation to the Tet offensive etc. He comically says for the 'gold medal' of US foreign policy the award goes to Xi Jinping toward the end, again reinforcing my take on Kotkin as one of our smartest analysts/historians (despite being a liberal).

Sitrep discussing some of the hysteria and reality around Russian armor/barrel construction. Really, it's quite funny, in that they use the same exact Austrian machines to produce barrels we do in NY, and have more of them.
Quote:

Now, we all know Russia is not the Soviet Union, and even Russia's annual tank production capacity of ~1200 is said to be 1/4 of peak Soviet Cold War capacity of 4000 tanks per year. But how believable do you reckon it is, that Russia can now only make 100 barrels per year, when with the same machines, they previously could make upwards of a whopping 250,000?

And do you think Russia threw away all those dozens of machines and only has a single one left? If they're in such short supply as the Economist article claims, then how come a cursory web search shows Russian companies literally trying to sell these machines on Korean websites? Here's a GFM SXP-55 located somewhere in Rostov-on-Don:
YouBet
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Almost forgot about this war. We still stalemating? Any advances?
Teslag
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Nothing either way. It's exactly the stalemate we all said it would be once American aid took hold.
nortex97
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YouBet said:

Almost forgot about this war. We still stalemating? Any advances?
It's not really a stalemate, the Russians are gradually advancing day by day. It's an unmitigated disaster.

Zelensky has indicated an intent to end the war by the end of the year, though clearly it needs to keep going through our election date in November for obvious reasons;



AlaskanAg99
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The Russians are advancing at a glacier pace via high casualties.

At the end of thenday this 3 day "war" has been an unmitigated disaster for Russia using Soviet doctrine. The rest of NATO has watched participated and learned.

Russia broke its treaty regarding Ukraine twice. And in the meantime spurred NATO to spend on defense. Just have to wait for Putin to die.
Rongagin71
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It is past time for Putin to pass on.
I'm a little surprised some ambitious young Russian hasn't given a little push.
nortex97
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We really need to plan for how to 'win the peace' for once, imho, and worry a lot less about whatever the heck is going on or not in Moscow. Around 36 minutes;



Fortunately, we might have adults in charge of foreign policy again, vs. the crooks/infantile morons and traitors we've had for going on 4 years now, yet we have to figure out a way to cut the graft out of the postwar as much as possible. Worrisome signs: Zelensky's and Clintons teaming up:



Ukraine serves one key role globally; helping to feed Europe/Africa, and shipping gas/energy to Eastern Europe. It would be nice if it could resume that, but it's not a real vital American interest.
PlaneCrashGuy
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Clown world
nortex97
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Working his magic already I guess:



Great job, guys:

Ag with kids
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nortex97 said:

Working his magic already I guess:



Great job, guys:


Definitely stronger.

Got all that deadwood of firstline soldiers and officers out of the way as well as all that new equipment.

Now they can go back to their tried and true method of tossing conscripted criminals and 1960s era weaponry that worked so well in the past!!!
Teslag
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Weak Russia in 2022: pushes to the edge of Kiev and almost takes the country in a few days.

Strong Russia in 2024: takes a few miles of land in almost 9 months of fighting in one tiny area on the map in a stalemate.
Ag with kids
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Teslag said:

Weak Russia in 2022: pushes to the edge of Kiev and almost takes the country in a few days.

Strong Russia in 2024: takes a few miles of land in almost 9 months of fighting in one tiny area on the map in a stalemate.
Russia is STRONG LIKE BULL...

Well, a bull named Bevo that's a castrated steer...
J. Walter Weatherman
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Teslag said:

Weak Russia in 2022: pushes to the edge of Kiev and almost takes the country in a few days.

Strong Russia in 2024: takes a few miles of land in almost 9 months of fighting in one tiny area on the map in a stalemate.


Strong Russia in 2024 - increasing salary offers for Moscow citizens in an effort to try and backfill the troops they've lost in Putin's invasion.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/push-more-ukraine-troops-city-moscow-hikes-pay-contract-soldiers-60000-year-2024-07-23/
Teslag
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Crazy similarities between Russia and tu. Always boasts about all time record. Always tells you about what they are going to do but never follows through. Always hypes their new recruits but find out they are soft and busts once they hit the field.
nortex97
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Sitrep, with special note via Economist from Ukrainian officers:
Quote:

A new piece from The Economist gives another very interesting tidbit. The article deals with Vadym Sukharevsky, Ukraine's head of the Unmanned Systems Forces, i.e. the drone czar of all Ukraine. The article notes this is the first position of its kind in the entire world, which does show how ahead of the curve Ukraine is when it comes to drones; as I've always said, it's a consequence of necessity for Ukraine. Russia can afford to be slightly more lax because they have a plethora of offensive options, whereas Ukraine has virtually nothing but drones to lean on.

But if you think that means Russia is behind on drones, as the common narrative goes, think again: Ukraine's drone czar puts the final, decisive stamp on this much-debated fine-point:



Much more at the link, as usual. Amazing admissions, but I am sure these figures are well known and documented in other discussions. Or click here:


MJ20/20
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What is Russia waiting for? I think that is the most important questoin to be answered.

For fun we can speculate:

1. To me, the easy answer is they have motivation for a stalemate. Whether it be draining Ukraine and it's allies of resouorces or internally using a stalemate, politically, to motivate more investment in defense the stalemate can be a useful tool for Russia.

2. Ukraine has defensive positions that Russia is not yet comfortable overtaking or believe they can't. The Russians aren't hesitant to run paper through a shredder so I'm not sure how likely this is but something is giving pause.

3. The Ukraine theater in general is roo useful as a sharpening tool for the Russian armed forces. Early on in the conflict it was widely discussed how the US and Russians were sending moth balled equipment (cleaning out the closet), and in the russian's case, cleansing genetically and socially unfit citizens by sending them to the front. This seems like a reach, but plausible enough not to rule it out.

4. Does Russia want any more of Ukraine than it already occupies? Is it content with staus quo? This is an interesting question because noone really knows the answer. Putin has stated publicly that he would take Kiev, but taking any of his public statements at anything less than intimidation and manipulation tactics would be a mistake. He's not revealing **** in public other than what he wants us to think.

5. Is Russia running out of funding? Are the sanctions working? There are a lot of articles for both yay and nay when it comes to the sanctions effectiveness. Again, there is no link or article that is going to uncover the entire story. There may be elements of truth, but accurate economic data coming out of Russia is nonexistent.

6. Is Russia using the threat of invasion to influence political change in Ukraine. Parking his army on the banks of the Dnipro River anticipating the Ukrainian public losing it's appetite for war and demanding a political shift. This seems plausible, but Russia knows there many ways to influence regime change that doesn't involve the risks they are exposed to in Ukraine, so not likely.

nortex97
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Good post, I would say 4 and 6 make the most sense.

Realistically, I think Putin would be happy with the energy resources and port (Sevastopol) in the east/Crimea, and a neutered Ukraine excluded from Nato otherwise. I had suspected they would push more toward Odessa but I guess not.

Yet I don't think that (truce/peace) can be allowed to happen until our elections are 'in the books.' Europe has been having a rough time and also really wants to get back to 'cheap Russian/Ukrainian oil/gas etc'. The war has served its purpose for Xi as well with the expanded partnerships via BRICS and specifically Hungary (news even this week keeps coming out on the latter), while from Putin's perspective the remnant adult male population under Kiev's control will probably not be a significant threat militarily again. Washington/globalists/Blackrock types can profit tremendously in the trillion dollar 'rebuild' starting next year.

I've read the Ukrainians in the west are the ones with by far the highest 'draft dodger' rates but some of that is because it was easier for them to flee the country. Their appetite regardless to sustain the war over some absurdist goals like retaking Crimea etc. is very low, it's just that Ukraine, like Russia is a totalitarian country so they have no choice.
PlaneCrashGuy
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I guess basic accounting is hard when you're skimming off the top.
nortex97
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Mailbag, discussing possible end states/goals including the Poles which I didn't really know much about.

Quote:

After all, it's possible Hungary could leave NATO eventually; the Polish foreign ministry just stated this today:
Quote:

The Polish Foreign Ministry proposed that Hungary leave the EU and NATO, - Polska Agencja Prasowa
Deputy head of the ministry Teofil Bartoszewski criticized Orban's Saturday statements.
"I don't really understand why Hungary wants to remain a member of organizations that it doesn't like so much and allegedly treats it badly. This is, of course, the anti-European, anti-Ukrainian, anti-Polish policy of Hungary."
Ultimately, I see such developments creating a domino effect which causes more countries to increasingly join 'Eastern Bloc'. The reason is, we are living in a sort of reverse Cold War, economically speaking. Back then, the West was economically strong, and countries who were pried away from the Iron Curtain began to see immediate economic benefits. Now it's the opposite: anyone staying in the diseased EU is subjected to economic suicide via mass austerity, migration, intentionally economically damaging policies, etc. And anyone joining the Russian-Chinese bloc, immediately gets an economic boost and growth via real trade partners.
Thus, if Russia can open up this corridor, as above, more countries in the immediate vicinity will see the economic strength of the countries connected via the Russian bloc, and will begin having second thoughts about being EU-aligned. It will cause long-term cracks to form, with increasing political pressure to look East.
The Hungarian alignment with China and BRICS more broadly is fascinating, imho, and related to this war broadly.



Interesting reports via WaPo, of all places:

Rongagin71
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The bit about states used to get an economic boost by joining the West
but now the economic boost comes from joining the East shocked me -
because it may be true.
lb3
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Ag with kids said:

nortex97 said:

Working his magic already I guess:



Great job, guys:


Definitely stronger.

Got all that deadwood of firstline soldiers and officers out of the way as well as all that new equipment.

Now they can go back to their tried and true method of tossing conscripted criminals and 1960s era weaponry that worked so well in the past!!!
They also restructured their military away from their ineffective BTG formations, ramped up arms productions to levels the west can't match, made huge gains in combined arms command and control allowing them to apply a diverse array of land and air based weapons on targets minutes after initial identification, optimized their electronic countermeasures for western weapons, and introduced drones at bit the tactical and strategic levels, and increased the number of combatants in theater from 200k at the start of the war to over 500k today.

Russia today has a far more potent fighting force than the one that invaded Ukraine a couple years ago.
Ag with kids
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lb3 said:

Ag with kids said:

nortex97 said:

Working his magic already I guess:



Great job, guys:


Definitely stronger.

Got all that deadwood of firstline soldiers and officers out of the way as well as all that new equipment.

Now they can go back to their tried and true method of tossing conscripted criminals and 1960s era weaponry that worked so well in the past!!!
They also restructured their military away from their ineffective BTG formations, ramped up arms productions to levels the west can't match, made huge gains in combined arms command and control allowing them to apply a diverse array of land and air based weapons on targets minutes after initial identification, optimized their electronic countermeasures for western weapons, and introduced drones at bit the tactical and strategic levels, and increased the number of combatants in theater from 200k at the start of the war to over 500k today.

Russia today has a far more potent fighting force than the one that invaded Ukraine a couple years ago.
Levels the west CAN'T match?

Or just haven't?

I'm skeptical that Russia can ramp up their economy higher than the west can...even for this war.

And the far more potent fighting force has been basically in a stalemate for 2 years...while losing tens of thousands of bodies.

I'm not buying the Russian propaganda that they sell...
Teslag
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Quote:

Russia today has a far more potent fighting force than the one that invaded Ukraine a couple years ago.


Russias fighting force that invaded Ukraine two years ago pushed to the steps of Kiev in a matter of days, took massive amounts of Ukrainian land, and looked to the end the war in weeks. The "far more potent fighting force" of today has only managed a few miles of advance in one tiny area on the map in 9 months and caught in stalemate.

Stop telling us what Russia is going to do and start showing us what they can do. It's been over 7 months since this war was claimed to be over in "weeks". Yet here we are.
Ags4DaWin
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Russia can and will throw bodies at things til something sticks.

Russia has natural resources on par with the US.

They have shown an ability when the **** hits the fan to ramp up both production and technology.

And they have very little conscience about needimg to fight an "ethical war"....... that means targeting civilians, using their own prisoners as soldiers, just stacking bodies until the enemy is demoralized.....etc

All of these factors make Russia a more formidable fighting force as a war wears on.

We have seen this pattern repeat itself over and over again throughout history. This is nothing different.
AtticusMatlock
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This is incredibly wrong.

They are resorting to human wave attacks on foot, cycles, and golf carts. Their tactics have changed out of necessity but it is resulted in zero gain in ability.
Teslag
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Quote:

All of these factors make Russia a more formidable fighting force as a war wears on.

We have seen this pattern repeat itself over and over again throughout history. This is nothing different.


Is this an alternate history that doesn't include Afghanistan?
PlaneCrashGuy
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Ag with kids said:

lb3 said:

Ag with kids said:

nortex97 said:

Working his magic already I guess:



Great job, guys:


Definitely stronger.

Got all that deadwood of firstline soldiers and officers out of the way as well as all that new equipment.

Now they can go back to their tried and true method of tossing conscripted criminals and 1960s era weaponry that worked so well in the past!!!
They also restructured their military away from their ineffective BTG formations, ramped up arms productions to levels the west can't match, made huge gains in combined arms command and control allowing them to apply a diverse array of land and air based weapons on targets minutes after initial identification, optimized their electronic countermeasures for western weapons, and introduced drones at bit the tactical and strategic levels, and increased the number of combatants in theater from 200k at the start of the war to over 500k today.

Russia today has a far more potent fighting force than the one that invaded Ukraine a couple years ago.
Levels the west CAN'T match?

Or just haven't?

I'm skeptical that Russia can ramp up their economy higher than the west can...even for this war.

And the far more potent fighting force has been basically in a stalemate for 2 years...while losing tens of thousands of bodies.

I'm not buying the Russian propaganda that they sell...


Stop telling us what the west is going to do and start showing us what they can do. F16's should be there by now.
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