Russia/Ukraine from Another Perspective (Relaunch Part Deux)

524,975 Views | 9433 Replies | Last: 16 hrs ago by PlaneCrashGuy
Teslag
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Prove it
Ag with kids
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Teslag said:

Prove it
He could be the hardest working deployer...

W
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so all those sanctions the West put on Russia...let's see....27 months ago...

are they, um, you know, working yet?

the western leaders were really proud of them at the time
nortex97
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Doom outlook report:



Ineffective weapons:



Russians 'capitulating' per Putin:



Orban seeks exit ramp from Biden proxy war with Russia. No small coincidence this is happening after his meeting this month with Xi (who just happened to commit to building EV's in Hungary).

Quote:

In the modern era (since Obama), the former left-wing peacenik movement has reversed position and are now the leading advocates for global war. Democrats, leftists, globalists and various trade union organizations, who have supported the merge of government with corporations, now advocate for all positions that advance war and general international conflict. As a consequence, NATO is now an offensive weapon; that's the contextual background.

The USA has created a proxy state with exploitation and control over Ukraine. Russia has responded to the USA control over Ukraine by force. The USA now wants to create war with Russia using NATO as the offensive weapon. Hungary does not want to participate in this NATO offensive position. This puts Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban on the outside of the NATO alliance group and a direct target of the USA.

BUDAPEST, Hungary (AP) Hungary will seek to opt out of any NATO operations aimed at supporting Ukraine, Prime Minister Viktor Orbn said Friday, suggesting that the military alliance and the European Union were moving toward a more direct conflict with Russia.

Orbn told state radio that Hungary opposes a plan NATO is weighing to provide more predictable military support to Ukraine in coming years to repel Moscow's full-scale invasion, as better armed Russian troops assert control on the battlefield.
Teslag
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Quote:

likely to lose more land than it already has since January.


So instead of one or two specks on the map it will be 3 or 4?
nortex97
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Sad anniversary in this 10 year old war, of the day when the new Nuland regime began shelling/bombing the Russian population in Donetsk.

On the anticipated large losses this year (above summary is yet again just a lie), it is coming from a report via Ukrainian Pravda panning the German Welt newspaper.



I think it's this one, I dunno. Some interesting commentary:

Quote:

SPD politician Stegner, however, told the FAS that some "hardliners" always said: "If we do not supply more weapons, Ukraine will lose." Their hypothesis is that "Putin can be forced to the negotiating table militarily."

But Ukraine's failed offensive last year showed that "we can and must prevent Ukraine from losing, but we cannot ensure that it wins." Anyone who keeps demanding that "weapon A must be delivered more quickly and weapon B in even greater quantities" is chasing "illusions." "Always increasing the dose when the medicine is not working" is "not convincing."
YouBet
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Teslag said:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-wants-ukraine-ceasefire-current-frontlines-sources-say-2024-05-24/


This article is not indisputable evidence that Putin is capitulating and does not remotely say that. A few examples:

These "sources" are saying right off the bat he can keep on going and all of the actions happening right now, today, indicate no capitulation.

Quote:

"Putin can fight for as long as it takes, but Putin is also ready for a ceasefire to freeze the war," said another of the four, a senior Russian source who has worked with Putin and has knowledge of top level conversations in the Kremlin.

"Russia will push further," the source who has worked with Putin said. Putin will slowly conquer territories until Zelenskiy comes up with an offer to stop, the person said, saying the Russian leader had expressed the view to aides that the West would not provide enough weapons, sapping Ukraine's morale.


In addition Ukraine says he's merely false flagging his desire for peace negotiations:

Quote:

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said on X that the Russian leader was trying to derail a Ukrainian-initiated peace summit in Switzerland next month by using his entourage to send out "phony signals" about his alleged readiness to halt the war.

"Putin currently has no desire to end his aggression against Ukraine. Only the principled and united voice of the global majority can force him to choose peace over war," said Kuleba.


Zelenskyy is on record that he won't negotiate with Putin so one could easily just assume Putin is playing the angle of trying to be the reasonable one here and make Zelenskyy look bad because Putin is willing to come to the table and Zelenskyy is not.

Quote:

Zelenskiy has repeatedly said peace on Putin's terms is a non-starter. He has vowed to retake lost territory, including Crimea, which Russia annexed in 2014. He signed a decree in 2022 that formally declared any talks with Putin "impossible."


Never mind that the US does not think Putin is capitulating either:

Quote:

One of the sources predicted no agreement could happen while Zelenskiy was in power, unless Russia bypassed him and struck a deal with Washington. However, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken, speaking in Kyiv last week, told reporters he did not believe Putin was interested in serious negotiations.

In response to questions for this story, a U.S. State Department spokesperson said any initiative for peace must respect Ukraine's "territorial integrity, within its internationally recognised borders" and described Russia as the sole obstacle to peace in Ukraine.
"The Kremlin has yet to demonstrate any meaningful interest in ending its war, quite the opposite," the spokesperson said.



All in all while we agree on this thing largely being a stalemate there is nothing here indicating that Putin is capitulating. This is all posturing at best for the inevitable negotiations. And everything in this article points to Puting continuing to put pressure on Ukraine until they relent and come to the table. In other words, Putin will continue putting pressure until Ukraine capitulates. That's explicitly stated in the first quote I shared.
Teslag
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I think after two years it's obvious that Putin doesn't have much ability to apply any real pressure. Hence the stalemate.
OPAG
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Quote:

Prove it
Back at ya!
OPAG
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Putin is standing where he has always stood or stated. Despite the talking head 'analysts' attempt to twist things to what Putin really wants and means.

He has been very consistent through out. Anyone who has kept up with the history of this can clearly see it.

As I have said (and have been told by very reliable sources inside that know) Russian is no hurry. They have accomplished what they want to accomplish. Time is in the Russian side and Putin knows it

Anyone with a brain knows it.
PlaneCrashGuy
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I agree. Logically, at minimum he'd wait until November, but I suspect his timeline is even longer than that.
Ag with kids
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OPAG said:

Quote:

Prove it
Back at ya!
Since your original post:

Quote:

I can assure I have 'deployed' a lot more than you. LOL
used quotes around the word "deployed", please define what 'deployed' means in your context.
Rongagin71
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Good 8 minute interview from Germany on the recent Russian "purge"
nortex97
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Decent analyses. The focus on economic coordination etc. in Russia's shakeup is covered again in today's sitrep too. The claims/hope that Russia's military production would peak in the next 12 months then decline seem to be based only in emotions/propaganda, imho.

I put some excerpts on the other thread, but the short version is just that Russia is vastly outproducing Kiev backers on ammo, and is preparing for the real/significant attack from NW of Kharkiv per Zelensky.

The other interesting bit is the rumors of command staff shakeup/firing of Syrsky etc. AFU seems to be in complete disarray.



Quote:

If there's even a hint of truth to the above, I'd far likelier wager the real reason being Zelensky's need to crop the command a tad in order to rein in growing prospects of military coup.
Now, rumor has it that after a small hiatus of regrouping, Russian forces are poised to make another large-scale broad-fronted attack across the entire front:
Quote:

In the coming Days/Weeks the entire Front will be activated from our side. In the coming hours the Regrouping and Rotation along the front will be completed. As already happened this morning in the Avdeevka area. And then our Troops began Offensive Operations again. This will happen in a timely manner from Zaporozhye to Kharkov. Now the enemy is exhausted and forced to jump from A to B. The Meat Grinder will start up at full speed shortly.
This was followed by reports from the Ukrainian side that the Sumy border is getting hotter and hotter:
More at the link. Forever war, comrades!
nortex97
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Georgia legislators overcame the veto of their Eurocrat PM to pass a FARA-like law on foreign lobbying:



An analyses of the "Theory of Victory" one of Zelensky's recently-former aids now a fellow at the Atlantic Council (pro-war) think tank wrote as propaganda. It's long but very good.



Lengthy, but devastating if true, analyses:


More liberated villages:
Teslag
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"Liberated"

Tells everyone here what we already know.
FJB24
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The Russians do appear to be building up in that area north west of Kharkov:



Threats of sanctions etc. are not slowing down Russian arms exports/relations.
Ag with kids
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Teslag said:

"Liberated"

Tells everyone here what we already know.
That was my first thought when I read that tweet.
PlaneCrashGuy
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Ag with kids said:

Teslag said:

"Liberated"

Tells everyone here what we already know.
That was my first thought when I read that tweet.


Thats it? No actual rebuttal?
Teslag
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https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/spain-send-patriot-missiles-leopard-tanks-ukraine-123-billion-package-2024-05-27/

Spain set to give $1.2 billion aid package to Ukraine. Putin has solidified Europe against in him in ways he never imagine. Will result in even more Putin buckling I'm sure.
No Spin Ag
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Teslag said:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/spain-send-patriot-missiles-leopard-tanks-ukraine-123-billion-package-2024-05-27/

Spain set to give $1.2 billion aid package to Ukraine. Putin has solidified Europe against in him in ways he never imagine. Will result in even more Putin buckling I'm sure.


Thanks for the link that's great news.
PlaneCrashGuy
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Agreed. Passed time for Europe to pull their own weight.
nortex97
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And the poles and Baltic countries are talking about sending troops in the event of a collapse. This is…a laughable thought, most especially by the loud mouthed but toothless baltics:



A 'presidential' brigade?



Once again the escalatory attacks on nuclear attack detection radars had no tactical advantage for Ukraine in this war. It's clear a broader war/nuclear escalation is sought heading into election season:

wtmartinaggie
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You do realize that overcoming the Veto and passing that law in Georgia is a bad thing, right?
nortex97
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There is nothing inherently wrong with the law, imho.
Quote:

Under the terms of the bill, NGOs receiving more than 20 percent of their funds from overseas will have to declare that they are "carrying out the interests of a foreign power," enter themselves into a register and make detailed financial disclosures. Tens of thousands of Georgians have taken to the streets to protest the move, which they fear is a precursor to a major crackdown on civil society. Riot police have deployed tear gas and water cannon while violently arresting attendees and even opposition politicians.
And Georgia has enormous amounts of NGO's receiving mostly foreign funds.



Make no mistake, our FARA has been used to prosecute/convict enemies of the swamp (Manafort), but registration laws are not a bad thing. Georgians probably don't actually want a CIA-Nuland style "Maidan Revolution." I have no real concern/interest as to whether they orient toward the EU or Russia/China etc.
Ag with kids
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

Teslag said:

"Liberated"

Tells everyone here what we already know.
That was my first thought when I read that tweet.


Thats it? No actual rebuttal?
I was replying to Tesla. I don't disagree so no rebuttal is needed.
Teslag
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Quote:

which have the sole purpose of warning the Kremlin in time of a sudden insidious US strategic nuclear attack on Russia.

False. And this was explained to you on the other thread, and you acknowledged that it they can be used for other things.
nortex97
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Putin laughing at/mocking Stoltenberg is sort of funny;
Quote:

Kiev's Western backers need to understand that long-range strikes on Russian territory using weaponry they have supplied would represent a conflict escalation that would have "serious consequences," Russian President Vladimir Putin has warned.

Speaking to reporters at the end of a two-day visit to Uzbekistan, Putin addressed recent Ukrainian demands for NATO to permit the use of their weapons to attack deep inside Russia as well as comments by the US-led bloc's head, Jens Stoltenberg, appearing to endorse the tactic.

"To be honest, I don't know what the NATO secretary-general is saying," Putin told reporters, adding that Stoltenberg "did not suffer from any dementia" when he worked constructively with Russia as the prime minister of Norway (2005-2013).
And I have no idea as usual what the above dishonest post is about. ATACMS/drones etc. aren't in the ionosphere an altitude the impacted/targeted nuclear ICBM launch detection radars would detect or have utility to Russia, and they have no utility to the defense/war in Ukraine/crimea etc. I won't address absurdities or get into a back and forth about whatever…
Teslag
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I stand corrected. You didn't acknowledge it. You just change the subject when other posters told you what they could do.
Stat Monitor Repairman
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NATO mormon soaking direct action with Russia.
Ags4DaWin
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Stat Monitor Repairman said:



NATO mormon soaking direct action with Russia.


I am 100% okay with Ukraine being able to attack Russia.

Just as long as they do it with their own weapons.

The loaning of arms and armaments for offensive purposes is what eventually led us unto getting dragged into the WW1 gentleman's war of competing empires.

Let's not replay the mistakes of the past.
nortex97
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The mistakes of the past are omnipresent in Ukraine. Wrong (proxy and direct) commander, wrong coup, wrong way to 'weaken' BRICS, wrong impact on geopolitical 'allies.'



Sachs, and Putin alike are right here imho. We do have better things to do/worry about.
nortex97
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Sitrep;




"Putin surrendering:"


The "Peace summit" is perfect for this charade. Only one party attends, provides propaganda spectacle of weapons promises/lies/agreements, stretching out years to give hope the war continues.

Forever war, comrades!

notex
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Nato is a peaceful defensive organization that would never attack another country or seek to break up sovereign nations into dependencies to station troops there.



Forever war, indeed.

Quote:

"Constant escalation can lead to serious consequences," Putin told reporters in Tashkent. "If these serious consequences occur in Europe, how will the United States behave, bearing in mind our parity in the field of strategic weapons?"
"It's hard to say - do they want a global conflict?"
Putin said Ukrainian strikes on Russia with long-range weapons would need Western satellite, intelligence and military help - so the West would be directly involved. He said sending French troops to Ukraine would be a step towards a global conflict.
Speaking of NATO members in Europe, Putin said that small countries there "should be aware of what they are playing with", as they had small land areas and very dense populations.
"This is a factor that they should keep in mind before talking about striking deep into Russian territory," Putin said.
Teslag
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Quote:

"Constant escalation can lead to serious consequences," Putin told reporters in Tashkent

Like invading a sovereign neighbor....
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