Russia/Ukraine from Another Perspective (Relaunch Part Deux)

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J. Walter Weatherman
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In reply to nortex97 • 7:39p, 2/6/24
nortex97 said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
Teslag said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
Teslag said:
And it's not deflection. It's highlighting your hypocrisy. Ukraine took minimal gains this summer and you said it was a failure. Now Russia is literally taking meters and you think it's akin to Sherman marching on Atlanta.


You abandoned that "millimeter" schtick fast.

And last summer Uke had US aid- you have an update on that for us?


And they didn't have US aid when they rolled back Russias initial invasion. You know, the one that was supposed to take two weeks to roll into Kiev.


Its no secret that Russia is on plan B. Its also no secret that Uke has no plan.

What's Russia's "new" plan?
Honest question, have you followed anything on what Russia has been up to over the past 18 months? They no longer are using a large "private military company" for much of the work, or anywhere near as many 'prisoner conscript' units/troops.

They've massively expanded industrial military output including everything from drones, armor, logistics materiel, and nearly doubled I think the uniformed active folks in theater. And changed leadership almost entirely at a tactical/theater level. They've also tremendously improved ISR capabilities both with space based assets and otherwise, while improving on largely antiquated field artillery/mortar systems.

But otherwise, sure, it's basically the same folks/strategy/tactics as February 2022.

Were they doing this back then??:



Cool. I was more asking about their broader strategy - i.e. the change from trying to take Kiev and topple the whole country and getting pushed back vs where they are now. Wasn't sure if the claim of "Plan B" from our favorite smiley face troll included mostly accepting the current boundaries or if he was saying Russia would be taking some bigger swings again at some point.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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8:09p, 2/6/24
AG
I suppose the name calling will continue until Uke outlook improves, but rest assured the updates will continue unmolested by these childish outbursts.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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11:40p, 2/6/24
AG

And a slower analysis on the airburst
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nortex97
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5:23a, 2/7/24
AG


LOL. And lol at eyepatch McCain crying about it too. Let the Israeli's do what they wish in Gaza, we have to stop just funding forever wars anyway.



For some reason there has been an online debate about the costs of various Russian-built Shaheds the past 2 days. $50K-200K or so.







I do find it sort of fascinating that Russia would pay Iran in gold.





Quote:
Today, given the eye-watering price tag for the proxy war in Ukraine, the average observer would be exceptionally naive to presume that similar influence is not currently being applied to the media when it comes to the justification of conflicts and the vilification of perceived "enemies" of Uncle Sam, such as Russia and China. It's worth remembering that we're talking about media outlets that rely almost exclusively on "good relations" with the White House and Downing Street to access "leaked" information and stay on the "inside track" of the news business. Dirty your bib once by asking the wrong question, and it's into the information wilderness with you. It's not called the "spoon fed narrative" for nothing.

Examining the language around the conflict in Ukraine provides a good idea about how a bias is instilled in the viewer and the reader. Despite the complex and long-running issues that contributed to the Russian intervention in 2022, the Western media opts for a shamelessly one-sided narrative, intentionally apportioning exclusive culpability to Russia. The dehumanization of living and dead Russians seems to be a keystone of this tactic alongside selective revisions of history. The indefensible failure of a media that touts itself as the champion of equality and freedom to tackle the essentially xenophobic impulse that forms the core of this strategy, speaks volumes.

Anyone watching the ebb and flow of Western coverage of the Ukrainian conflict will notice the emergence of a centrally formed, "fact-light" narrative that suggests Ukrainians are utterly blameless, in a conflict which did not, in fact, begin on February 24, 2022, but with a CIA-back coup in Kiev in 2014, powered by ultra-nationalists and the far right. Its roots stretch even deeper, decades back, to the attempts at the destabilization of the Ukrainian SSR by Western intelligence agencies.

Of course, the Western viewer is conveniently spared such details. The skill of deceit by omission of fact has been well honed by the likes of the BBC and CNN. Additionally, the Western media has also been adept at memory-holing Kiev's crimes against its own people in the aftermath of the 2014 Maidan coup. There is no space to report the gross corruption, the punitive neo-Nazi battalions unleashed on the Donbass region, or the murder, abduction and rape deployed against the Russian-speaking populations who refused to accept the illegitimate mandate of the post-Maidan government.
Quote:
All of this also suggests that a sinister centralized narrative is being deployed in the interest of a political will rather than in a search for truth by the establishment media. Any objective observer has to work very hard to convince themselves that the media is not now playing a critical role in the justification of the conflict "of the day." Willful misrepresentation of one group as opposed to another, the crafty selective deployment of history in the cultivation of narratives, and the poorly veiled use of racism to describe one side as essentially culpable for their own brutal treatment by the other.

It now seems shockingly obvious that the Western media is determined to suppress any informed debate around the rationale for conflict when that conflict emanates from the US or one of its clients or allies. It is also now increasingly apparent that even when established media changes its tune, it does so to lubricate a pre-agreed political shift in direction, as is currently happening in Ukraine. Western media outlets like the Washington Post, the New York Times, and The Independent in the UK are now openly portraying a Ukrainian regime on the verge of collapse. The much-vaunted Ukrainian "counteroffensive," once incessantly peddled by the media as a "game-changing" maneuver led by brilliant minds and fought with unassailable Western weaponry, has now become a source of open derision.

What would have been unthinkable to point out merely months ago, has now become mainstream. Detailed reporting has miraculously emerged from "anonymous sources" about the fractious nature of President Zelensky's regime, and Shakespearean intrigue in Kiev as Armed Forces Chief Zaluzhny faces off with the endemically corrupt Ukrainian establishment. This narrative has suddenly become acceptable to the client media in the West. Does anybody actually believe that this shift in opinion has not been centrally okayed or fashioned? Given the history of the American intelligence services' intimate relationship with the media in the US and beyond, anyone who believes the CIA's DNA isn't all over this sea change in reporting is exceptionally naive.

The playbook for licensing war is actually quite simple. First, demonize your enemy call him an orc, call him a terrorist, cultivate fear among your own population and convince it that its enemy is not the grossly incompetent government that consistently spends billions of its tax dollars on foreign wars, but the peoples of far-off lands who most likely suffer their own privations due to those very same perpetual wars.

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Teslag
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 6:52a, 2/7/24
AG
PlaneCrashGuy said:

And a slower analysis on the airburst


Smiley face emoticon showing Ukrainians being killed.

But remember this thread is above "war porn" and "war cheer leaders" and totally isn't supporting Russia.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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In reply to nortex97 • 6:57a, 2/7/24
AG
"Russia regains upper hand" -NYT

Also from that article, which is behind a paywall:

"We can stop them for now, but who knows," one soldier said. "Tomorrow or the next day, maybe we can't stop them."

Which obviously refutes "no ability to mount an offensive"

But it completely validates what I said yesterday: if Ukraine can stop Russia they will, and they're not.
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Teslag
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 7:06a, 2/7/24
AG
So Russia can mount an offensive because…



Checks notes





Still hasn't taken this village after 5 months? I'm sure the residents of Kiev are fleeing.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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In reply to Teslag • 7:17a, 2/7/24
AG
Teslag said:
So Russia can mount an offensive because…



Checks notes





Still hasn't taken this village after 5 months? I'm sure the residents of Kiev are fleeing.


If Ukraine could've stopped it they would have.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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7:24a, 2/7/24
AG

It happened again. Uke can't get out of their own way.
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J. Walter Weatherman
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In reply to Teslag • 7:33a, 2/7/24
Teslag said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:

And a slower analysis on the airburst


Smiley face emoticon showing Ukrainians being killed.

But remember this thread is above "war porn" and "war cheer leaders" and totally isn't supporting Russia.


Clearly PCG is very concerned about the lives being lost and not actively rooting for Russia in their continued unprovoked invasion.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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In reply to J. Walter Weatherman • 7:42a, 2/7/24
AG
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Teslag said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:

And a slower analysis on the airburst


Smiley face emoticon showing Ukrainians being killed.

But remember this thread is above "war porn" and "war cheer leaders" and totally isn't supporting Russia.


Clearly PCG is very concerned about the lives being lost and not actively rooting for Russia in their continued unprovoked invasion.


"Unprovoked" only plainly displays your ignorance.
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J. Walter Weatherman
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 7:48a, 2/7/24
PlaneCrashGuy said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Teslag said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:

And a slower analysis on the airburst


Smiley face emoticon showing Ukrainians being killed.

But remember this thread is above "war porn" and "war cheer leaders" and totally isn't supporting Russia.


Clearly PCG is very concerned about the lives being lost and not actively rooting for Russia in their continued unprovoked invasion.


"Unprovoked" only plainly displays your ignorance.


Must have missed where Ukraine invaded Russia first and justified the war Putin started. Can you point me to something there? Or are your posts only limited to smiley face videos of Ukrainians dying trying to defend their country from an invasion?
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PlaneCrashGuy
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In reply to J. Walter Weatherman • 7:53a, 2/7/24
AG
J. Walter Weatherman said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Teslag said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:

And a slower analysis on the airburst


Smiley face emoticon showing Ukrainians being killed.

But remember this thread is above "war porn" and "war cheer leaders" and totally isn't supporting Russia.


Clearly PCG is very concerned about the lives being lost and not actively rooting for Russia in their continued unprovoked invasion.


"Unprovoked" only plainly displays your ignorance.


Must have missed where Ukraine invaded Russia first and justified the war Putin started. Can you point me to something there? Or are your posts only limited to smiley face videos of Ukrainians dying trying to defend their country from an invasion?


We're 170 pages in. I'm not rehashing this for the 100th time because you weren't paying attention. Hopefully you will watch the interview when it is released and actually learn something
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nortex97
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 7:54a, 2/7/24
AG
Quote:
"Unprovoked" only plainly displays your ignorance.
Yes. Apparently Saint Zelensky was mistaken when he was so upset about the US escalating tensions before the invasion actually happened;

Quote:
KYIV, Ukraine Ukrainian of- ficials sharply criticized the Biden administration Friday for its omi- nous warnings of an imminent Russian attack, saying they had needlessly spread alarm, even as a new Pentagon assessment said Russia was now positioned to go beyond a limited incursion and in- vade all of Ukraine.

The diverging viewpoints brought into the open the stark disagreement between Ukraine and its key partner over how to as- sess the threat posed by Russia, which has massed about 130,000 troops on Ukraine's border in what American officials are call- ing a grave threat to global peace and stability.

The tensions, which have sim- mered in the background for weeks, have surfaced at a particu- larly delicate moment, as Presi- dent Vladimir V. Putin of Russia reviews the American response to his demands for addressing Russian security concerns in Eastern Europe.

"They keep supporting this theme, this topic,'' President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine said of the repeated warnings by American officials. "And they make it as acute and burning as possible. In my opinion, this is a mistake."
But I am sure the NYT was just misquoting Victoria Nuland's puppet. But let's look to another far left Dem mouthpiece, NPR, which also documented the push/taunts to get Putin to invade:

Quote:
MAYNES: Thank you.
MARTNEZ: All right, to understand more about Putin's decision-making, we've called an expert on the Russian president. Nina Khrushcheva is a professor of international affairs at The New School in New York. Professor, first off, what was your reaction to the news this morning?
NINA KHRUSHCHEVA: Well, thank you. First, it was a shock and also shock because I was, unfortunately, the one who was saying that the Biden administration is a bit hysterical about Putin's intentions. So that proved me wrong tremendously. So I'm quite embarrassed by that. But on the other hand, I'm thinking that - you know, what I was thinking, that indeed sort of American loud information about the possible invasion must have pushed Putin over the top. Because he must have felt that being so kind of insulted on air continuously that he has this horrible intentions in mind, he had to do something, otherwise he would look like a weakling. So the next step...
MARTNEZ: So you think he was pushed to this is what you're saying.
KHRUSHCHEVA: Well, pushed to this because it was - the way it was presented and the way it appeared, there would be - there was an information war, so he's being accused of military invasion and he was not responding and his military people were saying, well, we're being insulted by the West. Look at this. They're maligning our reputation, so we have to show strength, otherwise we look like weaklings. So then then...
MARTNEZ: Is it almost one of those things, Nina, where it's like, if you're accusing me of this, why don't I just go ahead and do it?
KHRUSHCHEVA: Exactly. If you are accusing me of this - right. If you're basically telling me - don't tell me what I can't or cannot do. So then he recognizes Donetsk and Luhansk, and I thought that that would be as - it can be called a proportional response. Just recognize and say, you know what? Now we have to deal with this reality.
It's not real hard to look back and actually see Dem propaganda outlets that noted the pressure on Putin, coming from Biden administration acts in Nov 2021 thru the invasion start as to how/why the proximate cause is…Biden administration deliberate acts and statements/policies. That's why it is very widely called a "proxy war" after all even today.
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J. Walter Weatherman
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 8:00a, 2/7/24
PlaneCrashGuy said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Teslag said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:

And a slower analysis on the airburst


Smiley face emoticon showing Ukrainians being killed.

But remember this thread is above "war porn" and "war cheer leaders" and totally isn't supporting Russia.


Clearly PCG is very concerned about the lives being lost and not actively rooting for Russia in their continued unprovoked invasion.


"Unprovoked" only plainly displays your ignorance.


Must have missed where Ukraine invaded Russia first and justified the war Putin started. Can you point me to something there? Or are your posts only limited to smiley face videos of Ukrainians dying trying to defend their country from an invasion?


We're 170 pages in. I'm not rehashing this for the 100th time because you weren't paying attention. Hopefully you will watch the interview when it is released and actually learn something


So, no, there is nothing you can share showing Ukraine invaded Russia and provoked Putin's invasion. Carry on with your smiley face posts of Ukrainians dying trying to defend their country.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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In reply to J. Walter Weatherman • 8:08a, 2/7/24
AG
J. Walter Weatherman said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Teslag said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:

And a slower analysis on the airburst


Smiley face emoticon showing Ukrainians being killed.

But remember this thread is above "war porn" and "war cheer leaders" and totally isn't supporting Russia.


Clearly PCG is very concerned about the lives being lost and not actively rooting for Russia in their continued unprovoked invasion.


"Unprovoked" only plainly displays your ignorance.


Must have missed where Ukraine invaded Russia first and justified the war Putin started. Can you point me to something there? Or are your posts only limited to smiley face videos of Ukrainians dying trying to defend their country from an invasion?


We're 170 pages in. I'm not rehashing this for the 100th time because you weren't paying attention. Hopefully you will watch the interview when it is released and actually learn something


So, no, there is nothing you can share showing Ukraine invaded Russia and provoked Putin's invasion. Carry on with your smiley face posts of Ukrainians dying trying to defend their country.


I can show you the provocation if you can tell me why Russia invaded. After your outbursts of late you've gotta prove you're a serious poster if we're going to get anywhere.
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nortex97
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In reply to J. Walter Weatherman • 8:09a, 2/7/24
AG
J. Walter Weatherman said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Teslag said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:

And a slower analysis on the airburst


Smiley face emoticon showing Ukrainians being killed.

But remember this thread is above "war porn" and "war cheer leaders" and totally isn't supporting Russia.


Clearly PCG is very concerned about the lives being lost and not actively rooting for Russia in their continued unprovoked invasion.


"Unprovoked" only plainly displays your ignorance.


Must have missed where Ukraine invaded Russia first and justified the war Putin started. Can you point me to something there? Or are your posts only limited to smiley face videos of Ukrainians dying trying to defend their country from an invasion?


We're 170 pages in. I'm not rehashing this for the 100th time because you weren't paying attention. Hopefully you will watch the interview when it is released and actually learn something


So, no, there is nothing you can share showing Ukraine invaded Russia and provoked Putin's invasion. Carry on with your smiley face posts of Ukrainians dying trying to defend their country.
The shelling by Nuland-Zelensky of Russian peoples within what was at the time part of Ukraine is what led to the crisis substantially, then escalated by Biden. Look it up.



Even Teslag has noted that this essentially 'started' (most recently) in 2014. That was the Nuland-Maidan coup.
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Teslag
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 8:09a, 2/7/24
AG
Russia invaded because they want Ukraine. It's no more complicate than that.
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J. Walter Weatherman
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 8:18a, 2/7/24
PlaneCrashGuy said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Teslag said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:

And a slower analysis on the airburst


Smiley face emoticon showing Ukrainians being killed.

But remember this thread is above "war porn" and "war cheer leaders" and totally isn't supporting Russia.


Clearly PCG is very concerned about the lives being lost and not actively rooting for Russia in their continued unprovoked invasion.


"Unprovoked" only plainly displays your ignorance.


Must have missed where Ukraine invaded Russia first and justified the war Putin started. Can you point me to something there? Or are your posts only limited to smiley face videos of Ukrainians dying trying to defend their country from an invasion?


We're 170 pages in. I'm not rehashing this for the 100th time because you weren't paying attention. Hopefully you will watch the interview when it is released and actually learn something


So, no, there is nothing you can share showing Ukraine invaded Russia and provoked Putin's invasion. Carry on with your smiley face posts of Ukrainians dying trying to defend their country.


I can show you the provocation if you can tell me why Russia invaded. After your outbursts of late you've gotta prove you're a serious poster if we're going to get anywhere.


Russia, their bots on twitter, etc. are telling people a number of false reasons why they invaded (nazis, biolabs, "provocation" from a defensive alliance that would only be fighting Russia if they decided to invade a NATO country, Biden corruption, etc), including most of what is posted on this thread. Russia actually invaded because they wanted to take over Ukraine and thought it would be easy. You can try to over complicate it all you want in some bizarre effort to appear enlightened, but it's not really that complicated.

Since Ukraine never attacked Russia (unless there is evidence of that that you haven't shared yet), the only objective conclusion is that Russia's invasion was unprovoked. But that would involve our pro Russia contingent actually being objective.

And yes, we could only hope to be as "serious" as constantly posting smiley face videos of Ukrainians dying trying to defend their country from an invasion, which for some reason you won't address.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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In reply to J. Walter Weatherman • 8:23a, 2/7/24
AG
J. Walter Weatherman said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Teslag said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:

And a slower analysis on the airburst


Smiley face emoticon showing Ukrainians being killed.

But remember this thread is above "war porn" and "war cheer leaders" and totally isn't supporting Russia.


Clearly PCG is very concerned about the lives being lost and not actively rooting for Russia in their continued unprovoked invasion.


"Unprovoked" only plainly displays your ignorance.


Must have missed where Ukraine invaded Russia first and justified the war Putin started. Can you point me to something there? Or are your posts only limited to smiley face videos of Ukrainians dying trying to defend their country from an invasion?


We're 170 pages in. I'm not rehashing this for the 100th time because you weren't paying attention. Hopefully you will watch the interview when it is released and actually learn something


So, no, there is nothing you can share showing Ukraine invaded Russia and provoked Putin's invasion. Carry on with your smiley face posts of Ukrainians dying trying to defend their country.


I can show you the provocation if you can tell me why Russia invaded. After your outbursts of late you've gotta prove you're a serious poster if we're going to get anywhere.


Russia, their bots on twitter, etc. are telling people a number of false reasons why they invaded (nazis, biolabs, "provocation" from a defensive alliance that would only be fighting Russia if they decided to invade a NATO country, Biden corruption, etc), including most of what is posted on this thread. Russia actually invaded because they wanted to take over Ukraine and thought it would be easy. You can try to over complicate it all you want in some bizarre effort to appear enlightened, but it's not really that complicated.

Since Ukraine never attacked Russia (unless there is evidence of that that you haven't shared yet), the only objective conclusion is that Russia's invasion was unprovoked. But that would involve our pro Russia contingent actually being objective.

And yes, we could only hope to be as "serious" as constantly posting smiley face videos of Ukrainians dying trying to defend their country from an invasion, which for some reason you won't address.


If you've already made up your mind, and you're still pretending to want to discuss, that's called trolling. I appreciate you taking your mask off.

The updates will continue.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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8:25a, 2/7/24
AG
Was there ever a time in history that the ones doing the censoring were the good guys?
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Ag with kids
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 8:25a, 2/7/24
AG
PlaneCrashGuy said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Teslag said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:

And a slower analysis on the airburst


Smiley face emoticon showing Ukrainians being killed.

But remember this thread is above "war porn" and "war cheer leaders" and totally isn't supporting Russia.


Clearly PCG is very concerned about the lives being lost and not actively rooting for Russia in their continued unprovoked invasion.


"Unprovoked" only plainly displays your ignorance.


Must have missed where Ukraine invaded Russia first and justified the war Putin started. Can you point me to something there? Or are your posts only limited to smiley face videos of Ukrainians dying trying to defend their country from an invasion?


We're 170 pages in. I'm not rehashing this for the 100th time because you weren't paying attention. Hopefully you will watch the interview when it is released and actually learn something


So, no, there is nothing you can share showing Ukraine invaded Russia and provoked Putin's invasion. Carry on with your smiley face posts of Ukrainians dying trying to defend their country.


I can show you the provocation if you can tell me why Russia invaded. After your outbursts of late you've gotta prove you're a serious poster if we're going to get anywhere.


Russia, their bots on twitter, etc. are telling people a number of false reasons why they invaded (nazis, biolabs, "provocation" from a defensive alliance that would only be fighting Russia if they decided to invade a NATO country, Biden corruption, etc), including most of what is posted on this thread. Russia actually invaded because they wanted to take over Ukraine and thought it would be easy. You can try to over complicate it all you want in some bizarre effort to appear enlightened, but it's not really that complicated.

Since Ukraine never attacked Russia (unless there is evidence of that that you haven't shared yet), the only objective conclusion is that Russia's invasion was unprovoked. But that would involve our pro Russia contingent actually being objective.

And yes, we could only hope to be as "serious" as constantly posting smiley face videos of Ukrainians dying trying to defend their country from an invasion, which for some reason you won't address.


If you've already made up your mind, and you're still pretending to want to discuss, that's called trolling. I appreciate you taking your mask off.

The updates will continue.
Now...since he told you why Russia invaded, it's your turn. Show the provocation.

Unless you're not a serious poster who is just trolling on here.
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J. Walter Weatherman
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 8:38a, 2/7/24
PlaneCrashGuy said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Teslag said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:

And a slower analysis on the airburst


Smiley face emoticon showing Ukrainians being killed.

But remember this thread is above "war porn" and "war cheer leaders" and totally isn't supporting Russia.


Clearly PCG is very concerned about the lives being lost and not actively rooting for Russia in their continued unprovoked invasion.


"Unprovoked" only plainly displays your ignorance.


Must have missed where Ukraine invaded Russia first and justified the war Putin started. Can you point me to something there? Or are your posts only limited to smiley face videos of Ukrainians dying trying to defend their country from an invasion?


We're 170 pages in. I'm not rehashing this for the 100th time because you weren't paying attention. Hopefully you will watch the interview when it is released and actually learn something


So, no, there is nothing you can share showing Ukraine invaded Russia and provoked Putin's invasion. Carry on with your smiley face posts of Ukrainians dying trying to defend their country.


I can show you the provocation if you can tell me why Russia invaded. After your outbursts of late you've gotta prove you're a serious poster if we're going to get anywhere.


Russia, their bots on twitter, etc. are telling people a number of false reasons why they invaded (nazis, biolabs, "provocation" from a defensive alliance that would only be fighting Russia if they decided to invade a NATO country, Biden corruption, etc), including most of what is posted on this thread. Russia actually invaded because they wanted to take over Ukraine and thought it would be easy. You can try to over complicate it all you want in some bizarre effort to appear enlightened, but it's not really that complicated.

Since Ukraine never attacked Russia (unless there is evidence of that that you haven't shared yet), the only objective conclusion is that Russia's invasion was unprovoked. But that would involve our pro Russia contingent actually being objective.

And yes, we could only hope to be as "serious" as constantly posting smiley face videos of Ukrainians dying trying to defend their country from an invasion, which for some reason you won't address.


If you've already made up your mind, and you're still pretending to want to discuss, that's called trolling. I appreciate you taking your mask off.

The updates will continue.


"I can show you the provocation if you tell me why Russia invaded."

Thanks for proving you're just trolling and there's no need to take anything you say seriously.
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nortex97
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In reply to Ag with kids • 8:39a, 2/7/24
AG
Ag with kids said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Teslag said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:

And a slower analysis on the airburst


Smiley face emoticon showing Ukrainians being killed.

But remember this thread is above "war porn" and "war cheer leaders" and totally isn't supporting Russia.


Clearly PCG is very concerned about the lives being lost and not actively rooting for Russia in their continued unprovoked invasion.


"Unprovoked" only plainly displays your ignorance.


Must have missed where Ukraine invaded Russia first and justified the war Putin started. Can you point me to something there? Or are your posts only limited to smiley face videos of Ukrainians dying trying to defend their country from an invasion?


We're 170 pages in. I'm not rehashing this for the 100th time because you weren't paying attention. Hopefully you will watch the interview when it is released and actually learn something


So, no, there is nothing you can share showing Ukraine invaded Russia and provoked Putin's invasion. Carry on with your smiley face posts of Ukrainians dying trying to defend their country.


I can show you the provocation if you can tell me why Russia invaded. After your outbursts of late you've gotta prove you're a serious poster if we're going to get anywhere.


Russia, their bots on twitter, etc. are telling people a number of false reasons why they invaded (nazis, biolabs, "provocation" from a defensive alliance that would only be fighting Russia if they decided to invade a NATO country, Biden corruption, etc), including most of what is posted on this thread. Russia actually invaded because they wanted to take over Ukraine and thought it would be easy. You can try to over complicate it all you want in some bizarre effort to appear enlightened, but it's not really that complicated.

Since Ukraine never attacked Russia (unless there is evidence of that that you haven't shared yet), the only objective conclusion is that Russia's invasion was unprovoked. But that would involve our pro Russia contingent actually being objective.

And yes, we could only hope to be as "serious" as constantly posting smiley face videos of Ukrainians dying trying to defend their country from an invasion, which for some reason you won't address.


If you've already made up your mind, and you're still pretending to want to discuss, that's called trolling. I appreciate you taking your mask off.

The updates will continue.
Now...since he told you why Russia invaded, it's your turn. Show the provocation.

Unless you're not a serious poster who is just trolling on here.
I showed it above, today.

Are you willing to at least look at the wikipedia article that details everything from the 1920's (topically, "Ukrainization") to the shelling in Luhansk and Donetsk by Ukraine of Russian population centers?



This is an ugly civil war to a large degree, which many Americans don't grasp, tbf.
Quote:
On 3 March, a number of people started storming Donetsk Oblast administrative building, waving Russian flags and shouting Russia! and Berkut are heroes!. The police did not offer resistance. The Luhansk Regional Council voted to demand giving Russian language the status of second official language, stopping persecution of Berkut fighters, disarming Maidan self-defense units and banning a number far-right political organizations like Svoboda and UNA-UNSO. If the authorities failed to comply with the demands, the Oblast council reserved itself the right to ask for help from the brotherly people of the Russian Federation.

The pro-Russian protests in Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts of the 2014 pro-Russian conflict in Ukraine escalated into an armed separatist insurgency. This led the Ukrainian government to launch a military counter-offensive against the insurgents in April 2014. During this war Luhansk and Donetsk, cities with a large ethnic Russian population, have seen heavy shelling. According to the United Nations, 730,000 refugees from the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts have fled to Russia since the beginning of 2014. Approximately 14,200 people, including 3,404 civilians, have died from 2014-2022 because of the war.

Ruslan Stefanchuk, the Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada, said that there is no "Russian ethnic minority" in Ukraine and that "if these people show aggression rather than respect towards Ukraine, then their rights should be correspondingly suppressed."
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PlaneCrashGuy
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8:43a, 2/7/24
AG
Teslag did say he thinks they are fleeing Kiev



Relevant reply:
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nortex97
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10:10a, 2/7/24
AG
"If you press the spring it will push back."

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Teslag
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 12:09p, 2/7/24
AG
PlaneCrashGuy said:
Teslag did say he thinks they are fleeing Kiev



Relevant reply:


So when is Russia rolling into Kiev? Give us the date since all the residents of Kiev have now left as you claim.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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In reply to Teslag • 12:48p, 2/7/24
AG
Teslag said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
Teslag did say he thinks they are fleeing Kiev



Relevant reply:


So when is Russia rolling into Kiev? Give us the date since all the residents of Kiev have now left as you claim.


You claimed residents were fleeing Kiev, not me. I linked a tweet, and claimed nothing.
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Teslag
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 12:55p, 2/7/24
AG
Where did I claim residents were fleeing Kiev?
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Mongolian Christmas
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 1:16p, 2/7/24
Probably fleeing to their vacation homes.
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In reply to Teslag • 1:40p, 2/7/24
AG
Teslag said:
So Russia can mount an offensive because…



Checks notes





Still hasn't taken this village after 5 months? I'm sure the residents of Kiev are fleeing.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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1:44p, 2/7/24
AG


I have also seen an increase in outbursts online.
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 2:54p, 2/7/24
AG
PlaneCrashGuy said:
Teslag said:
So Russia can mount an offensive because…



Checks notes





Still hasn't taken this village after 5 months? I'm sure the residents of Kiev are fleeing.


You honestly can't see the dripping sarcasm? Good Lord
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PlaneCrashGuy
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In reply to Teslag • 3:31p, 2/7/24
AG
Teslag said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
Teslag said:
So Russia can mount an offensive because…



Checks notes





Still hasn't taken this village after 5 months? I'm sure the residents of Kiev are fleeing.


You honestly can't see the dripping sarcasm? Good Lord


You know another word for sarcastic? Unserious.

Thank you for taking your mask off.
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Teslag
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 4:29p, 2/7/24
AG
The poster that doesn't answer questions is saying people are "unserious"
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