Russia/Ukraine from Another Perspective (Relaunch Part Deux)

522,615 Views | 9427 Replies | Last: 6 hrs ago by Teslag
PlaneCrashGuy
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chickencoupe16 said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

When you said "I do understand. And I understand the nuances" what were you referencing?


How many nuances would he have to list to satisfy you? 2? 5? 30? If he lists all but one that you can think of has he failed your test? If he forgets your favorite nuance has he failed?

I can't decide if you're a troll or actually believe. On one hand, I can't imagine someone actually believing and arguing such nonsense. On the other, I can't imagine someone having the commitment to keep such a ridiculous troll going for so long.


We could start with 1 and go from there. When he calls the invasion "unprovoked" (a blanket statement that allows for no nuance) and then claims to understand "the nuance" (used ambiguously), its completely fair to ask for clarification.

Also, I'm not asking as some kind of test. Its strange to me you frame my question in that way- when I just wanted him to clarify him contradicting himself.
PlaneCrashGuy
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Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

So maybe they'll finally take an abandoned village by March? So we averaging one village every 5 months?


I find it interesting you're not considering the human cost in your assessment here. The videos coming out of Avdeevka are not pretty.
Are you smiling because the Russians have killed some more Ukrainian civilians.


I was told the town was abandoned, meaning no civilians.
I guess they killed them or they all had to leave their homes. Must have left you absolutely giddy that Russia has done that to those civilians.


How is Russia forcing civilians to leave when they have "no ability to mount an offensive"?

Another contradiction.

If you answer is lobbing missiles and artillery, why do you not consider lobbing missiles and artillery to be "offensive"?
Teslag
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There you go again. Thinking the ability to mount offensive is judged on how affective it is against unarmed women and children.
PlaneCrashGuy
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Teslag said:

There you go again. Thinking the ability to mount offensive is judged on how affective it is against unarmed women and children.


I think lobbing missiles and artillery is an "offensive" action. The alternatives would be defensive or neutra actions. Which do you think it is?
Teslag
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I think civilians fleeing an active front is common sense. They aren't defenders and will leave that area regardless.


But you know that already.
Teslag
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And yet you'll drone on in some type of gotcha that confuses everyone but yourself. Russia has spent 5 months to take one village. Ukraine took several and still it was a failure. Yet here we are Russia still trying after 5 months for one town and you think they are somehow proving their offensive ability because civilians don't want their kids to die. It's laughably absurd.


Russia can't do ***** If they can then maybe for the first time in two years they should actually do something.
PlaneCrashGuy
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Teslag said:

I think civilians fleeing an active front is common sense. They aren't defenders and will leave that area regardless.


But you know that already.


Yes we agree. It was Ag With Kids who said the civilians did not leave. Are you going to correct him?
Teslag
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He literally said some left and others died
PlaneCrashGuy
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Teslag said:

And yet you'll drone on in some type of gotcha that confuses everyone but yourself. Russia has spent 5 months to take one village. Ukraine took several and still it was a failure. Yet here we are Russia still trying after 5 months for one town and you think they are somehow proving their offensive ability because civilians don't want their kids to die. It's laughably absurd.


Russia can't do ***** If they can then maybe for the first time in two years they should actually do something.


You again have omitted the human cost from your assessment. Its more than pixels on a screen, dots a map out there.
Teslag
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We are all aware of the human cost that Putin is solely responsible for
Ag with kids
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

So maybe they'll finally take an abandoned village by March? So we averaging one village every 5 months?


I find it interesting you're not considering the human cost in your assessment here. The videos coming out of Avdeevka are not pretty.
Are you smiling because the Russians have killed some more Ukrainian civilians.


I was told the town was abandoned, meaning no civilians.
I guess they killed them or they all had to leave their homes. Must have left you absolutely giddy that Russia has done that to those civilians.


How is Russia forcing civilians to leave when they have "no ability to mount an offensive"?

Another contradiction.

If you answer is lobbing missiles and artillery, why do you not consider lobbing missiles and artillery to be "offensive"?
Well, if ANY bullets start flying at my house, I'm probably thinking of leaving. When Russians start to bomb it with the intent to kill civilians, I KNOW I'd leave.

They don't have to be mounting an offensive. They could just be the *******s they've been this whole war.

And I guess you have zero idea about what an offensive is. By your weak logic, the Ukrainians have been mounting lots of offensives against the Russians...
Ag with kids
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

And yet you'll drone on in some type of gotcha that confuses everyone but yourself. Russia has spent 5 months to take one village. Ukraine took several and still it was a failure. Yet here we are Russia still trying after 5 months for one town and you think they are somehow proving their offensive ability because civilians don't want their kids to die. It's laughably absurd.


Russia can't do ***** If they can then maybe for the first time in two years they should actually do something.


You again have omitted the human cost from your assessment. Its more than pixels on a screen, dots a map out there.
The human cost you like to smile about quite often.
PlaneCrashGuy
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Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

So maybe they'll finally take an abandoned village by March? So we averaging one village every 5 months?


I find it interesting you're not considering the human cost in your assessment here. The videos coming out of Avdeevka are not pretty.
Are you smiling because the Russians have killed some more Ukrainian civilians.


I was told the town was abandoned, meaning no civilians.
I guess they killed them or they all had to leave their homes. Must have left you absolutely giddy that Russia has done that to those civilians.


How is Russia forcing civilians to leave when they have "no ability to mount an offensive"?

Another contradiction.

If you answer is lobbing missiles and artillery, why do you not consider lobbing missiles and artillery to be "offensive"?
Well, if ANY bullets start flying at my house, I'm probably thinking of leaving. When Russians start to bomb it with the intent to kill civilians, I KNOW I'd leave.

They don't have to be mounting an offensive. They could just be the *******s they've been this whole war.

And I guess you have zero idea about what an offensive is. By your weak logic, the Ukrainians have been mounting lots of offensives against the Russians...


"Offensive: noun - an attacking military campaign."

Oxford dictionary

What dictionary are you using to define offensive? Maybe that will clear this up.
Ag with kids
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

So maybe they'll finally take an abandoned village by March? So we averaging one village every 5 months?


I find it interesting you're not considering the human cost in your assessment here. The videos coming out of Avdeevka are not pretty.
Are you smiling because the Russians have killed some more Ukrainian civilians.


I was told the town was abandoned, meaning no civilians.
I guess they killed them or they all had to leave their homes. Must have left you absolutely giddy that Russia has done that to those civilians.


How is Russia forcing civilians to leave when they have "no ability to mount an offensive"?

Another contradiction.

If you answer is lobbing missiles and artillery, why do you not consider lobbing missiles and artillery to be "offensive"?
Well, if ANY bullets start flying at my house, I'm probably thinking of leaving. When Russians start to bomb it with the intent to kill civilians, I KNOW I'd leave.

They don't have to be mounting an offensive. They could just be the *******s they've been this whole war.

And I guess you have zero idea about what an offensive is. By your weak logic, the Ukrainians have been mounting lots of offensives against the Russians...


"Offensive: noun - an attacking military campaign."

Oxford dictionary

What dictionary are you using to define offensive? Maybe that will clear this up.
The one militaries use. You should go find you one.
PlaneCrashGuy
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Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

So maybe they'll finally take an abandoned village by March? So we averaging one village every 5 months?


I find it interesting you're not considering the human cost in your assessment here. The videos coming out of Avdeevka are not pretty.
Are you smiling because the Russians have killed some more Ukrainian civilians.


I was told the town was abandoned, meaning no civilians.
I guess they killed them or they all had to leave their homes. Must have left you absolutely giddy that Russia has done that to those civilians.


How is Russia forcing civilians to leave when they have "no ability to mount an offensive"?

Another contradiction.

If you answer is lobbing missiles and artillery, why do you not consider lobbing missiles and artillery to be "offensive"?
Well, if ANY bullets start flying at my house, I'm probably thinking of leaving. When Russians start to bomb it with the intent to kill civilians, I KNOW I'd leave.

They don't have to be mounting an offensive. They could just be the *******s they've been this whole war.

And I guess you have zero idea about what an offensive is. By your weak logic, the Ukrainians have been mounting lots of offensives against the Russians...


"Offensive: noun - an attacking military campaign."

Oxford dictionary

What dictionary are you using to define offensive? Maybe that will clear this up.
The one militaries use. You should go find you one.


Can I get a link? Or maybe you could just quote the definition you're using?
Ag with kids
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

So maybe they'll finally take an abandoned village by March? So we averaging one village every 5 months?


I find it interesting you're not considering the human cost in your assessment here. The videos coming out of Avdeevka are not pretty.
Are you smiling because the Russians have killed some more Ukrainian civilians.


I was told the town was abandoned, meaning no civilians.
I guess they killed them or they all had to leave their homes. Must have left you absolutely giddy that Russia has done that to those civilians.


How is Russia forcing civilians to leave when they have "no ability to mount an offensive"?

Another contradiction.

If you answer is lobbing missiles and artillery, why do you not consider lobbing missiles and artillery to be "offensive"?
Well, if ANY bullets start flying at my house, I'm probably thinking of leaving. When Russians start to bomb it with the intent to kill civilians, I KNOW I'd leave.

They don't have to be mounting an offensive. They could just be the *******s they've been this whole war.

And I guess you have zero idea about what an offensive is. By your weak logic, the Ukrainians have been mounting lots of offensives against the Russians...


"Offensive: noun - an attacking military campaign."

Oxford dictionary

What dictionary are you using to define offensive? Maybe that will clear this up.
The one militaries use. You should go find you one.


Can I get a link? Or maybe you could just quote the definition you're using?
Sure. Here you go....
PlaneCrashGuy
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Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

So maybe they'll finally take an abandoned village by March? So we averaging one village every 5 months?


I find it interesting you're not considering the human cost in your assessment here. The videos coming out of Avdeevka are not pretty.
Are you smiling because the Russians have killed some more Ukrainian civilians.


I was told the town was abandoned, meaning no civilians.
I guess they killed them or they all had to leave their homes. Must have left you absolutely giddy that Russia has done that to those civilians.


How is Russia forcing civilians to leave when they have "no ability to mount an offensive"?

Another contradiction.

If you answer is lobbing missiles and artillery, why do you not consider lobbing missiles and artillery to be "offensive"?
Well, if ANY bullets start flying at my house, I'm probably thinking of leaving. When Russians start to bomb it with the intent to kill civilians, I KNOW I'd leave.

They don't have to be mounting an offensive. They could just be the *******s they've been this whole war.

And I guess you have zero idea about what an offensive is. By your weak logic, the Ukrainians have been mounting lots of offensives against the Russians...


"Offensive: noun - an attacking military campaign."

Oxford dictionary

What dictionary are you using to define offensive? Maybe that will clear this up.
The one militaries use. You should go find you one.


Can I get a link? Or maybe you could just quote the definition you're using?
Sure. Here you go....


"An offensive is a military operation that seeks through an aggressive projection of armed forces to occupy or recapture territory, gain an objective or achieve some larger strategic, operational, or tactical goal."

Its the exact same meaning with more words. What point do you think you're making here?
Ag with kids
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

So maybe they'll finally take an abandoned village by March? So we averaging one village every 5 months?


I find it interesting you're not considering the human cost in your assessment here. The videos coming out of Avdeevka are not pretty.
Are you smiling because the Russians have killed some more Ukrainian civilians.


I was told the town was abandoned, meaning no civilians.
I guess they killed them or they all had to leave their homes. Must have left you absolutely giddy that Russia has done that to those civilians.


How is Russia forcing civilians to leave when they have "no ability to mount an offensive"?

Another contradiction.

If you answer is lobbing missiles and artillery, why do you not consider lobbing missiles and artillery to be "offensive"?
Well, if ANY bullets start flying at my house, I'm probably thinking of leaving. When Russians start to bomb it with the intent to kill civilians, I KNOW I'd leave.

They don't have to be mounting an offensive. They could just be the *******s they've been this whole war.

And I guess you have zero idea about what an offensive is. By your weak logic, the Ukrainians have been mounting lots of offensives against the Russians...


"Offensive: noun - an attacking military campaign."

Oxford dictionary

What dictionary are you using to define offensive? Maybe that will clear this up.
The one militaries use. You should go find you one.


Can I get a link? Or maybe you could just quote the definition you're using?
Sure. Here you go....


"An offensive is a military operation that seeks through an aggressive projection of armed forces to occupy or recapture territory, gain an objective or achieve some larger strategic, operational, or tactical goal."

Its the exact same meaning with more words. What point do you think you're making here?
No it's not.

BTW, I know you're just trying to bait me into a ban again. So, have a lovely time being wrong about this.
PlaneCrashGuy
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Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

So maybe they'll finally take an abandoned village by March? So we averaging one village every 5 months?


I find it interesting you're not considering the human cost in your assessment here. The videos coming out of Avdeevka are not pretty.
Are you smiling because the Russians have killed some more Ukrainian civilians.


I was told the town was abandoned, meaning no civilians.
I guess they killed them or they all had to leave their homes. Must have left you absolutely giddy that Russia has done that to those civilians.


How is Russia forcing civilians to leave when they have "no ability to mount an offensive"?

Another contradiction.

If you answer is lobbing missiles and artillery, why do you not consider lobbing missiles and artillery to be "offensive"?
Well, if ANY bullets start flying at my house, I'm probably thinking of leaving. When Russians start to bomb it with the intent to kill civilians, I KNOW I'd leave.

They don't have to be mounting an offensive. They could just be the *******s they've been this whole war.

And I guess you have zero idea about what an offensive is. By your weak logic, the Ukrainians have been mounting lots of offensives against the Russians...


"Offensive: noun - an attacking military campaign."

Oxford dictionary

What dictionary are you using to define offensive? Maybe that will clear this up.
The one militaries use. You should go find you one.


Can I get a link? Or maybe you could just quote the definition you're using?
Sure. Here you go....


"An offensive is a military operation that seeks through an aggressive projection of armed forces to occupy or recapture territory, gain an objective or achieve some larger strategic, operational, or tactical goal."

Its the exact same meaning with more words. What point do you think you're making here?
No it's not.

BTW, I know you're just trying to bait me into a ban again. So, have a lovely time being wrong about this.


"When someone can't answer basic direct questions then it's obvious what they are doing."
PlaneCrashGuy
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750,000 MM
911sAg
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If UKE was so important how come no one stopped Russia's invasion of Crimea never seen a good answer on this?
911sAg
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Also, I was told Russia's economy would be in tatters by now yet nothing
Stat Monitor Repairman
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This might be what global economy 2.0 and Cold War 2.0 looks like.

Globalism cedes to BRICS nations vs. CBDC nations.

Countries might have a choice of which economy they want to subscribe to. A competition for new members.
RaaS - Reserve currency as a service.
nortex97
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That's a bit of an older map though now. I think in particular the BRICS additions are functionally neutral at best regarding Ukraine. Egypt, Saudi in particular, and also Libya (where Clinton-Obama-Biden weakness/idiocy has facilitated an opening to Russia). Realistically, Turkey is pretty ambivalent as well. The geniuses in the Biden administration running this proxy war have really done a swell job uniting a growing group of our enemies globally:







I guess Butosov didn't get the 'the city is abandoned' memo:





The public Zelensky the beautified perfect leader soap opera staggers on;

Quote:

Quote:

Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said he was weighing a possible dismissal of the country's top military officer, a prospect that has shocked the nation fighting Russia's invasion and worried Kyiv's Western allies.

Asked whether he was considering the ouster of Gen. Valerii Zaluzhnyi, Zelenskyy told Italian RAI TV in an interview released late Sunday that he was thinking about it as part of a broader issue of setting the country's path. He said that "a reset, a new beginning is necessary," and it's "not about a single person but about the direction of the country's leadership."
Zelensky is being quite vague in all of this. He insists that he's not singling out Zaluzhnyi, but instead looking for a new team where "we must all push in the same direction." That sounds to me like a subtle way of saying that members of his government disagree with his leadership and the direction the war and their international relations are taking so he wants people who share his goals. That's perhaps understandable, but he's been losing a lot of people in senior leadership positions over the past year or more.

There are also those inside the government who believe that Zelensky is blaming the general for the country's lackluster military recruitment efforts (to put it kindly). They've had an estimated nearly half a million troops killed or seriously injured thus far. Their ranks are depleted and Zaluzhnyi hasn't been able to make up the deficit. It's hard to blame him, though. As brave and patriotic as the Ukrainian people may be, they can see the course this war is taking and it's got to be hard to find a continual stream of people to step up and volunteer to throw themselves at the Russian lines. The counteroffensive last summer went nowhere and the Russians are dug in solidly. Does Zelinsky honestly believe he can find someone else capable of turning that trend around?

We are further reminded that conflicts between Zaluzhnyi and Zelensky first broke out a couple of months ago. During a magazine interview, the General admitted that the battle with Russia had reached "a stalemate." Zelensky was reportedly furious that he would say such a thing and publicly disagreed. But ask yourself who would have a better grasp of what was happening on the battlefield. Would it be the general directing the operations on the front line or a politician and former comedian who spends most of his time flying around to various countries begging for more aid?

Ukraine is once again running short on troops, ammunition, and fuel. The battle lines are not moving. He wants Valerii Zaluzhnyi to deliver a plan to address these problems and "win" the war. The General has no such plan because a virtually impossible task has been set before him. At his level, he is no doubt also keeping tabs on the international press and ongoing trends. He's aware that other countries, including the United States, have been growing dubious about continuing to pour an endless stream of money and arms down this particular rathole. Zelensky is one of the few continuing to insist that they can still "win." Perhaps the wrong person is being considered for termination.
PlaneCrashGuy
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This is all happening pretty much exactly how common sense would have predicted.
PlaneCrashGuy
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Its not just Avdeevka, either. Septillions of square millimeters.
Ag with kids
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Ag with kids said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

So maybe they'll finally take an abandoned village by March? So we averaging one village every 5 months?


I find it interesting you're not considering the human cost in your assessment here. The videos coming out of Avdeevka are not pretty.
Are you smiling because the Russians have killed some more Ukrainian civilians.


I was told the town was abandoned, meaning no civilians.
I guess they killed them or they all had to leave their homes. Must have left you absolutely giddy that Russia has done that to those civilians.


How is Russia forcing civilians to leave when they have "no ability to mount an offensive"?

Another contradiction.

If you answer is lobbing missiles and artillery, why do you not consider lobbing missiles and artillery to be "offensive"?
Well, if ANY bullets start flying at my house, I'm probably thinking of leaving. When Russians start to bomb it with the intent to kill civilians, I KNOW I'd leave.

They don't have to be mounting an offensive. They could just be the *******s they've been this whole war.

And I guess you have zero idea about what an offensive is. By your weak logic, the Ukrainians have been mounting lots of offensives against the Russians...


"Offensive: noun - an attacking military campaign."

Oxford dictionary

What dictionary are you using to define offensive? Maybe that will clear this up.
The one militaries use. You should go find you one.


Can I get a link? Or maybe you could just quote the definition you're using?
Sure. Here you go....


"An offensive is a military operation that seeks through an aggressive projection of armed forces to occupy or recapture territory, gain an objective or achieve some larger strategic, operational, or tactical goal."

Its the exact same meaning with more words. What point do you think you're making here?
No it's not.

BTW, I know you're just trying to bait me into a ban again. So, have a lovely time being wrong about this.


"When someone can't answer basic direct questions then it's obvious what they are doing."
Correct.

And you haven't.
Ag with kids
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911sAg said:

If UKE was so important how come no one stopped Russia's invasion of Crimea never seen a good answer on this?


Because Obama was too much of ***** wimp to let Mad Dog go in there and blow out those Commie *******s!
PlaneCrashGuy
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Long post kind of details how we got here in Avdeevka


Ukraine obviously can't stop it or they would've. Not sure when "the time is right" for US help to show up, but it seems like a few months ago.
chickencoupe16
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911sAg said:

If UKE was so important how come no one stopped Russia's invasion of Crimea never seen a good answer on this?
Because the same guy who set "red lines" in Syria and then moved said "red line" when al-Assad crossed it was in charge when not-Russia invaded Crimea. Slightly in Obama's defense, Ukraine also put up much less of a fight when Crimea was invaded than now, so there was less time to rally support.
Teslag
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PlaneCrashGuy said:


This is all happening pretty much exactly how common sense would have predicted.


Common sense predicted Russia would spend 5 months trying to take one small town?


Really?



Remember, those same Russian accounts said it would fall any day back in October. And one resident poster said all of Ukraine would fall in "weeks" several weeks ago.
PlaneCrashGuy
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Teslag said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:


This is all happening pretty much exactly how common sense would have predicted.


Common sense predicted Russia would spend 5 months trying to take one small town?


Really?



Remember, those same Russian accounts said it would fall any day back in October. And one resident poster said all of Ukraine would fall in "weeks" several weeks ago.


Common sense says Ukraine can't win a long war. Every extra day it lasts, the board tilts further to advantage Russia. Thats what is happening now. I haven't seen any female conscripts on the front line for Russia. Have you?

What about US aid? You have an update or still waiting for the "right time"?
nortex97
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Yeah I thought I read here the week or two delay in aid was guaranteed around mid December. Weird.
PlaneCrashGuy
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That, and to be honest I've never understood the "but Ukraine is losing ground slowly" defense.

It't not really important to the next generation how long it took to change hands.
Teslag
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:


This is all happening pretty much exactly how common sense would have predicted.


Common sense predicted Russia would spend 5 months trying to take one small town?


Really?



Remember, those same Russian accounts said it would fall any day back in October. And one resident poster said all of Ukraine would fall in "weeks" several weeks ago.


Common sense says Ukraine can't win a long war. Every extra day it lasts, the board tilts further to advantage Russia. Thats what is happening now. I haven't seen any female conscripts on the front line for Russia. Have you?

What about US aid? You have an update or still waiting for the "right time"?


Except that Russia has no ability to mount an offensive.
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