Teslag said:

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---

"I'm not a serious poster" is quite the defense. By all means, continue.

How Ukraine policy aligns with the CCP:

Flags explained.

Top: Soviet Russian Communist Party flag.
Bottom left: CCP flag
Bottom right: CCP national flag. The big star stands for the Party. The four little ones; govt, military, education & commerce, all under the domination of the Party. pic.twitter.com/5DfHU72kf1

— Xi Van Fleet (@XVanFleet) February 2, 2024

More fake war coming in the biden proxy conflicts:

Iranian Proxies Scatter Ahead Of Looming U.S. Retaliation Strikes

Plans are already leaking about the extent of the expected attacks in response to the deadly drone strike on U.S. soldiers in Jordan.

We also update the situation in the Red Sea: https://t.co/V1h1qvLHcR

— Tyler Rogoway (@Aviation_Intel) February 2, 2024

I really haven't had time to keep up, but is there any actual physical evidence yet that the Russian Mainstay radar plane was shot down? If not, is the theory that they suppressed this entirely somehow?

nortex97 said:

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"Always look on the bright side of life."

sung by Victoria Nuland, who is never photographed doing anything but smiling at her great successes.

⚡️ U.S. Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs Victoria Nuland arrived in Kyiv on Jan. 31, said U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Bridget Brink.https://t.co/EJIC4j4QgL

— The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent) January 31, 2024

Well, ok, not ALL the time…

Must be time for a change of government pic.twitter.com/mx4FhERZgD

— Cyborgigy (@FrogstarWorld) January 31, 2024

Meanwhile, Ukraine has less than a third the population in its remaining territory today, of military age adults, vs. 2014. Thanks, Victoria.

---

Let's see. What could have possibly happened in Ukraine in 2014 that would affect the population and start people leaving???

Oh yeah...thanks, PUTIN...

GAC06 said:

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Then to the bottom of the ocean

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Well, the bottom of the sea is technically "ground"...

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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"Most of what comes out of Ukraines government is propaganda" -Teslag

I guess he's just in the mood to troll today. 1 boat sinks and the ensuing chest pounding is pathetic.

---

Lord Bebo is YOUR propaganda...not Ukraine's...

Ag with kids said:

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nortex97 said:

---

"Always look on the bright side of life."

sung by Victoria Nuland, who is never photographed doing anything but smiling at her great successes.

⚡️ U.S. Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs Victoria Nuland arrived in Kyiv on Jan. 31, said U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Bridget Brink.https://t.co/EJIC4j4QgL

— The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent) January 31, 2024

Well, ok, not ALL the time…

Must be time for a change of government pic.twitter.com/mx4FhERZgD

— Cyborgigy (@FrogstarWorld) January 31, 2024

Meanwhile, Ukraine has less than a third the population in its remaining territory today, of military age adults, vs. 2014. Thanks, Victoria.

---

Let's see. What could have possibly happened in Ukraine in 2014 that would affect the population and start people leaving???

Oh yeah...thanks, PUTIN...

---

Have you ever read anything 2 links further even within Wikipedia about Nuland and "Euromaiden"?

Quote:

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President Yanukovych attended the 2829 November 2013 EU summit in Vilnius (where originally it was planned that the Association Agreement would be signed on 29 November 2013), but the Association Agreement was not signed. Both Yanukovych and high level EU officials signalled that they wanted to sign the Association Agreement at a later date.

In an interview with Lally Weymouth, Ukrainian billionaire businessman and opposition leader Petro Poroshenko said:

Quote:

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From the beginning, I was one of the organizers of the Maidan. My television channelChannel 5played a tremendously important role. We gave the opportunity to the journalists to tell the truth.... On the 11th of December, when we had [U.S. Assistant Secretary of State] Victoria Nuland and [E.U. diplomat] Catherine Ashton in Kyiv, during the night they started to storm the Maidan. I put my car in front of the riot police.

---

On 11 December 2013 the Prime Minister, Mykola Azarov, said he had asked for 20 billion (US$27 billion) in loans and aid to offset the cost of the EU deal. The EU was willing to offer 610 million (US$838 million) in loans, but Russia was willing to offer US$15 billion in loans. Russia also offered Ukraine cheaper gas prices. As a condition for the loans, the EU required major changes to the regulations and laws in Ukraine. Russia did not.

Public opinion about Euromaidan

According to December 2013 polls (by three different pollsters), between 45% and 50% of Ukrainians supported Euromaidan, while between 42% and 50% opposed it. The biggest support for the protest was found in Kyiv (about 75%) and western Ukraine (more than 80%). Among Euromaidan protesters, 55% were from the west of the country, with 24% from central Ukraine and 21% from the east.

---

I'm not attacking you, I just am surprised more don't understand the whole narrative behind "euromaidan" was BS from the get go in 2014. I'd encourage anyone reading this thread to go look for themselves.

nortex97 said:

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Biden Ukraine corruption going way back and still relevant today during the proxy war:

🚨 BREAKING 🚨

The White House is REFUSING to hand over early drafts of President Biden’s 2015 Ukraine speech where he called for the firing of the Ukrainian prosecutor, Viktor Shokin.

These drafts are important as it is believed, based on public reporting, that the then-VP… pic.twitter.com/HXuUkVGBAM

— Oversight Committee (@GOPoversight) January 31, 2024

---

Biden is a complete and utter POS ALL the time and I have ZERO doubts that he sucked up a lot of bribes from folks in Ukraine.

That doesn't mean this war isn't 100% Putin's fault.

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Teslag said:

---

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"I'm not a serious poster" is quite the defense. By all means, continue.

---

Seems to work for you...

Interesting article I expect to be shouted down but not authentically rebuked:

The record profits are another sign of the relative resilience of the Russian economy despite US and European efforts to hurt it https://t.co/te8vSoJncT pic.twitter.com/Skm3DFniim

— Financial Times (@FT) January 30, 2024

Does anyone here actually believe the sanctions worked?

The Russian economy is humming along, recently had its forecast growth for 2024 raised by the IMF to 2.6% GDP increases, though some have predicted up to 4 or so. In this era of bidenomics that is remarkable.

A Skeptic;

Quote:

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Even the U.S. Army is not up to Russian defense in Ukraine - American professor

The high hopes that many in the West had for the Ukrainian armed forces' summer campaign were not realized. The Ukrainian army had to pay dearly for limited advances that were eventually leveled. Now there is no doubt that the offensive has failed, writes (https://www.foreignaffairs.com/ukraine/how-russia-stopped-ukraines-momentum) Stephen Biddle, a professor at Columbia University's School of International and Public Affairs, for Foreign Affairs.

Some blame the fiasco on Washington, which has been slow to provide Kiev with modern weapons. Others attribute the failure to strategic blunders by the leadership and the poor preparedness of Ukrainian troops. But the point is rather that the Russian forces have shown themselves to be "competent defenders," the analyst said.

According to him, the Russian defense by the summer of 2023 had become deep, well-prepared, with extensive minefields, supported by mobile reserves and garrisoned by troops who did not lack morale and persistently repelled attacks. As history shows, breaching such defenses is very difficult even for well-trained attackers.

Perhaps an attacker with U.S. military level skills and training could break through. "But to overcome such defenses, you need a big advantage in skills and motivation. Ukraine did not have them in 2023, and it is unclear whether even U.S. troops would have had the skills to accomplish such a difficult task," Biddle notes.

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Quote:

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"Today Putin openly saidlikely for the first time, in such an overt and public mannerthat the entire contact line will have to be pushed back to such a distance as to keep Russian territories from being reached by NATO's most advanced weaponry given to Ukraine"

I take this to mean Russian forces will take territory up to the Dnieper + 150 km further. I also believe that at the end of the day the Russians will have military bases in western Ukraine probably close to the Belarus border, to facilitate access through friendly territory. And close to the Transnistria border as well in Western Ukraine. These bases will be outfitted with nuclear- tipped hypersonic missiles that can reach every European capital in seven minutes or less. And that will be the end of the western threat to Russia once and for all.

---

🇺🇦🇷🇺🚨‼️ “Zaluzhny, during a conversation with Zelensky, said that an immediate improvement in the situation of the country’s troops is unlikely” - Washington Post

According to the publication, the Ukrainian leader announced his intention to fire the general. It is noted that… pic.twitter.com/XYXTTU78zz

— Lord Bebo (@MyLordBebo) February 2, 2024

More WaPo reporting on the Kiev soap opera. Zaluzhny sounds perhaps a little too honest to work for Zelensky the magnificent:

Quote:

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With his days in command apparently numbered, Ukraine's top general alleged on Thursday that the Ukrainian government had failed to mobilize sufficient numbers of troops and called for an urgent upgrade of the country's high-tech warfare capabilities to overcome Russia's larger and better-armed forces "and ensure the existence of statehood."

Gen. Valery Zaluzhny was told on Monday by President Volodymyr Zelensky that he was being dismissed, but as of Friday morning a formal order removing him as head of commander in chief of the Ukrainian Armed Forces had not been received, according to a senior official who spoke on the condition of anonymity due to lack of authorization to speak publicly. Zaluzhny's relationship with Zelensky had been fraying for months, amid a failed counteroffensive last year, but tensions boiled over at a meeting on Monday in part because of a disagreement over how many new troops Ukraine needs to mobilize.
Zaluzhny, far from retreating in his clash with the president, wrote an article for CNN, published late Thursday evening, in which he called for "the wholesale redesign of battlefield operations and the abandoning of outdated, stereotypical thinking."

While the article did not call out Zelensky by name, it amounted to a remarkable rebuke of the president who has resisted Zaluzhny's call to mobilize nearly 500,000 new soldiers, saying he was not convinced it was necessary.

Zelensky had also publicly criticized Zaluzhny's comments in an interview with the Economist in November, in which he said that the war had reached a "stalemate." The assessment that battle lines have mostly stagnated and that the war is one of grinding attrition, with little forward movement by either side, is now widely accepted as fact.

"We must acknowledge the significant advantage enjoyed by the enemy in mobilizing human resources and how that compares with the inability of state institutions in Ukraine to improve the manpower levels of our armed forces without the use of unpopular measures," Zaluzhny wrote in the article for CNN.

Zaluzhny has not commented publicly about the reports of his dismissal, which presents a huge risk for Zelensky given the general's popularity within the military and more broadly among the Ukrainian public. Already, there are signs of a backlash among commanders on the battlefield and there is no indication that a new commander would be able to deliver any quick improvement of Ukraine's difficult position on the battlefield.

---

Nuland, the State Dept's "fixer," was sent to Kiev because things really are falling apart. Straighten this spat out now, boys, or we'll let the Russians make you peel potatoes in Siberia for the next 40 years. Nuland knowns what a coup looks like because she's the master of…

— Chebureki Man (@CheburekiMan) February 1, 2024

At this point we're practically running the operations order past Tehran for approval. https://t.co/53fBTjguuE

— Armchair Warlord (@ArmchairW) February 2, 2024

ZOMG the Black Sea fleet is just devastated! Wait, this might just be clickbait propaganda.

The Russians have suffered a grand total of four (4) confirmed total losses of Black Sea Fleet ships in the war thus far, two of which were LSTs and two of which were rather old warships.

Fully two-thirds of this list is either repaired, under repair, or extremely stale rumors. https://t.co/XfLRv1T4Pd

— Armchair Warlord (@ArmchairW) February 2, 2024

Quote:

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two of which were rather old warships.

---

Well that's one way to describe the literal flagship of the Black Sea Fleet

Teslag said:

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Quote:

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two of which were rather old warships.

---

Well that's one way to describe the literal flagship of the Black Sea Fleet

---

According to Teslag?

No, according to Russia and the Black Sea Fleet.

https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-ships-head-south-as-flagship-moskva-battles-extensive-fire-2022-4

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/14383383

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Teslag said:

---

Quote:

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two of which were rather old warships.

---

Well that's one way to describe the literal flagship of the Black Sea Fleet

---

According to Teslag?

---

According to Russia, apparently:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_cruiser_Moskva

Quote:

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Recommissioned into the Russian Navy in April 2000, Moskva replaced the Kynda-class cruiser Admiral Golovko as the flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet.[12]

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Teslag said:

---

Quote:

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two of which were rather old warships.

---

Well that's one way to describe the literal flagship of the Black Sea Fleet

---

According to Teslag?

---

According to Russia, apparently:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_cruiser_Moskva

Quote:

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Recommissioned into the Russian Navy in April 2000, Moskva replaced the Kynda-class cruiser Admiral Golovko as the flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet.[12]

---

---

Oh, according to Wikiepedia. Thanks.

Teslag said:

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No, according to Russia and the Black Sea Fleet.

https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-ships-head-south-as-flagship-moskva-battles-extensive-fire-2022-4

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/14383383

---

Business insider is Russia?

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Quote:

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two of which were rather old warships.

---

Well that's one way to describe the literal flagship of the Black Sea Fleet

---

According to Teslag?

---

According to Russia, apparently:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_cruiser_Moskva

Quote:

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Recommissioned into the Russian Navy in April 2000, Moskva replaced the Kynda-class cruiser Admiral Golovko as the flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet.[12]

---

---

Oh, according to Wikiepedia. Thanks.

---

Original source - https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/1164.htm

Along with literally dozens of other sources when it sank (feel free to google if you'd like). Guess anything possibly negative towards Russia doesn't count to you though.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Quote:

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two of which were rather old warships.

---

Well that's one way to describe the literal flagship of the Black Sea Fleet

---

According to Teslag?

---

According to Russia, apparently:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_cruiser_Moskva

Quote:

---

Recommissioned into the Russian Navy in April 2000, Moskva replaced the Kynda-class cruiser Admiral Golovko as the flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet.[12]

---

---

Oh, according to Wikiepedia. Thanks.

---

Original source - https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/1164.htm

Along with literally dozens of other sources when it sank (feel free to google if you'd like). Guess anything possibly negative towards Russia doesn't count to you though.

---

From your link:
" this smaller contemporary of the Kirov may have been intended as a less-expensive complement to the larger ships."

Hardly a flagship according to your source. Thank you.

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Quote:

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two of which were rather old warships.

---

Well that's one way to describe the literal flagship of the Black Sea Fleet

---

According to Teslag?

---

According to Russia, apparently:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_cruiser_Moskva

Quote:

---

Recommissioned into the Russian Navy in April 2000, Moskva replaced the Kynda-class cruiser Admiral Golovko as the flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet.[12]

---

---

Oh, according to Wikiepedia. Thanks.

---

Original source - https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/1164.htm

Along with literally dozens of other sources when it sank (feel free to google if you'd like). Guess anything possibly negative towards Russia doesn't count to you though.

---

From your link:
" this smaller contemporary of the Kirov may have been intended as a less-expensive complement to the larger ships."

Hardly a flagship according to your source. Thank you.

---

Lol right - if you'd like to ignore the dozens of sources all calling it the flagship just because of your strange loyalty to Russia you're more than welcome to. We have plenty of evidence you're not a serious poster but never hurts to add to the pile.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Quote:

---

two of which were rather old warships.

---

Well that's one way to describe the literal flagship of the Black Sea Fleet

---

According to Teslag?

---

According to Russia, apparently:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_cruiser_Moskva

Quote:

---

Recommissioned into the Russian Navy in April 2000, Moskva replaced the Kynda-class cruiser Admiral Golovko as the flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet.[12]

---

---

Oh, according to Wikiepedia. Thanks.

---

Original source - https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/1164.htm

Along with literally dozens of other sources when it sank (feel free to google if you'd like). Guess anything possibly negative towards Russia doesn't count to you though.

---

From your link:
" this smaller contemporary of the Kirov may have been intended as a less-expensive complement to the larger ships."

Hardly a flagship according to your source. Thank you.

---

Lol right - if you'd like to ignore the dozens of sources all calling it the flagship just because of your strange loyalty to Russia you're more than welcome to. We have plenty of evidence you're not a serious poster but never hurts to add to the pile.

---

"Dozens of sources" but you can't even provide 1.

Sure thing.

Quote:

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Along with literally dozens of other sources when it sank (feel free to google if you'd like). Guess anything possibly negative towards Russia doesn't count to you though.

---

No one should ever use google for anything, imho.

Second, whatever. This is perhaps funnier when…considering this was sort of akin to Ukraine sinking it's own ship, which the Russians captured in 2014:

⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦Newsflash: Russia seized 4 of the Project 1241 'Tarantul' boats from Ukraine. So even if Ukraine destroyed 1, Russia is still +3 on the exchange. Doh! 😉 pic.twitter.com/CFpkSXh6Yl

— SIMPLICIUS Ѱ (@simpatico771) February 1, 2024

The loss of that battle cruiser is a blip on the radar in terms of lives lost, depopulation, and materiel in this war. The two LST's and Moskva and a dinky corvette are not exactly earth shattering losses, any more than the 4 building 'village' of Robotyne was.

⚡️🇷🇺More of those transport vehicles Russia ran out of are headed to the front😉 pic.twitter.com/oG2VE404gX

— SIMPLICIUS Ѱ (@simpatico771) February 1, 2024

In any case newer ships will have improved self-defense capabilities (and yes some are built within the Black Sea confines):

🇷🇺🇷🇺 New and modernized ships of the Russian Navy will receive the latest Pantsir-ME naval anti-aircraft missile and gun system.

What is known about this air defense system: RT analysis
🔻Pantsir-ME is a naval version of the ground-based air defense missile system Pantsir-S.… pic.twitter.com/H7aZGLk5u7

— SIMPLICIUS Ѱ (@simpatico771) February 1, 2024

Forever war!

Do you ever get tired of being dead ass wrong?

The following link is official Russian state media.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/14383383

From the official Russian media source in Russian...



Which translates to...

Quote:

---

"Moscow" is the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet, the lead ship of Project 1164 "Atlant". It was put into operation in 1983 under the name "Slava". In 1996, the cruiser received its current name. The main strike armament of the ship is 16 launchers of P-1000 Vulcan missiles.

---

Dude just take the L.

Teslag said:

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Do you ever get tired of being dead ass wrong?

The following link is official Russian state media.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/14383383

From the official Russian media source in Russian...



Which translates to...

Quote:

---

"Moscow" is the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet, the lead ship of Project 1164 "Atlant". It was put into operation in 1983 under the name "Slava". In 1996, the cruiser received its current name. The main strike armament of the ship is 16 launchers of P-1000 Vulcan missiles.

---

Dude just take the L.

---

Lol - was just about to post that same article. But I would guess the only thing that will work is a video with Putin holding up a newspaper with today's date saying "I, Vladimir Putin, declare that the Moskva was our flagship." Very strange hill for PCG die on but feel free to keep denying easily provable objective facts. Just more evidence that you're an unserious troll.

"Most of what comes out of Ukraines government is propaganda" -Teslag

Except when I need to use it to prove my point -Teslag, probably.

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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"Most of what comes out of Ukraines government is propaganda" -Teslag

Except when I need to use it to prove my point -Teslag, probably.

---

This didn't come from Ukraine. It came from TASS, Russia's state owned news agency.

Teslag said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

"Most of what comes out of Ukraines government is propaganda" -Teslag

Except when I need to use it to prove my point -Teslag, probably.

---

This didn't come from Ukraine. It came from TASS, Russia's state owned news agency.

---

Teslag is "linking literal Russian propaganda" now. Checkmate.

we have plumbed the depths of idiocy when Russians are trying to deny that the Moskva was the flagship of the Black Sea fleet..

when RUSSIANS were the ones calling the Moskva the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/the-flagship-of-russias-black-sea-fleet-sinks-after-taking-heavy-damage

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/moskva-russias-lost-black-sea-fleet-flagship-2022-04-14/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61114843

LMCane said:

---

we have plumbed the depths of idiocy when Russians are trying to deny that the Moskva was the flagship of the Black Sea fleet..

when RUSSIANS were the ones calling the Moskva the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/the-flagship-of-russias-black-sea-fleet-sinks-after-taking-heavy-damage

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/moskva-russias-lost-black-sea-fleet-flagship-2022-04-14/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61114843

---

So you and Teslag now believe Russian state media? Or only when you like what it says?

LMCane said:

---

we have plumbed the depths of idiocy when Russians are trying to deny that the Moskva was the flagship of the Black Sea fleet..

when RUSSIANS were the ones calling the Moskva the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/the-flagship-of-russias-black-sea-fleet-sinks-after-taking-heavy-damage

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/moskva-russias-lost-black-sea-fleet-flagship-2022-04-14/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61114843

---

Welcome to PCG posts.

Teslag said:

---

LMCane said:

---

we have plumbed the depths of idiocy when Russians are trying to deny that the Moskva was the flagship of the Black Sea fleet..

when RUSSIANS were the ones calling the Moskva the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/the-flagship-of-russias-black-sea-fleet-sinks-after-taking-heavy-damage

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/moskva-russias-lost-black-sea-fleet-flagship-2022-04-14/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61114843

---

Welcome to PCG posts.

---

This and more from the guy linking literal Russian state media propaganda.

Deflect all you want. You popped off because you forgot about the Moskva. Then jumped to a conclusion that we were just assuming it was the flagship. Then jumped to assuming it was a claim by western media. Then tried some weird whataboutism schtick when you were shown even the Russians claim it as the flagship.

Russians lost another ship.

"According to?"

Video of it exploding and sinking.

Russians lost the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet.

"According to?"

Russia

deEbOoOoOnKEd!

Joe actually fired him for NOT investigating corruption, you see, so everything's fine!

/liberals, somehow.

Teslag said:

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Deflect all you want. You popped off because you forgot about the Moskva. Then jumped to a conclusion that we were just assuming it was the flagship. Then jumped to assuming it was a claim by western media. Then tried some weird whataboutism schtick when you were shown even the Russians claim it as the flagship.

---

My favorite part is PCG painting himself into a corner where the two options are:

1. Russian media are liars.

2. PCG is wrong and Ukraine did sink the Russian flagship.

My assumption is that he knows both are correct but is either incapable of processing anything negative happening to Russia, or is just bored and trolling.

Teslag said:

---

Deflect all you want. You popped off because you forgot about the Moskva. Then jumped to a conclusion that we were just assuming it was the flagship. Then jumped to assuming it was a claim by western media. Then tried some weird whataboutism schtick when you were shown even the Russians claim it as the flagship.

---

So you believe Russian sources now? Thanks!