nortex97 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

I stopped providing some links when 'some' just whined about what was not (fair use) excerpted by me. Just trying not to be in a silly back and forth about that.

If you have a tough time finding it or a substantive critique please do let me know, curious what any might be, from the 'pro Biden proxy-war' side of our political spectrum.

It sounds to me like the EU is unlikely to hit 50% of their targeted/promised 155mm 'aid' to Ukrainians. One mustn't look just to Russian sources of course to see the Ukrainians being largely abandoned. Reuters (admittedly a pro-CCP outfit) in early December:

Quote:

---

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - European Union countries have placed orders for only 60,000 artillery shells under an EU scheme to help get 1 million rounds of ammunition to Ukraine by next spring, according to people familiar with the figures.

The scheme was a centrepiece of an EU initiative to ramp up the supply of vital 155mm artillery shells to Ukraine, allowing countries to place orders with industry through contracts negotiated by the bloc's European Defence Agency (EDA).

The broader initiative, launched in March, offered various schemes to get 1 million shells and missiles to Ukraine within a year for the war against Russia's invasion.

Together, those schemes have yielded some 480,000 munitions, according to the EU - less than half of the target, with about four months to go.

The particularly small volume of orders for the scheme at the heart of the programme highlights bigger struggles that the EU is facing in trying to hit the target.

In a sign of concern at the low volume of orders so far, a draft declaration for an EU summit next week "stresses the urgent need to accelerate the delivery of missiles and ammunition, notably under the one million rounds of artillery ammunition initiative".

Artillery rounds are a crucial element in the war of attrition between Ukrainian troops and Russia's invasion forces, with each side firing thousands of shells every day.

The European Defence Agency said in September that seven countries had ordered ammunition through the pioneering joint procurement scheme. Lithuania, Denmark and Luxembourg said they were among the seven.

The EDA did not specify the size of the orders. But people familiar with the figures told Reuters on condition of anonymity the total was just 60,000 shells.

---

---

Ah...so now if I'm not pro-Putin like you, I must be pro-Biden?

Funny...

BTW, if you actually read that WHOLE article from Reuters (that you didn't attribute), it doesn't say what you're claiming...

The Link in case people want to read with context...

---

You did it, good (and no I didn't imply you are pro-biden but this is his proxy war after all). But, you still failed to provide a counter-point. What is it, that 'other explanations' might exist? People should trust in a magical 4 month surge in 155mm shell production for orders not placed from the EU on the basis of 'priorities?'

Quote:

---

DIFFERENT EXPLANATIONS

Officials and industry leaders have offered different explanations for the EU's struggle to meet the goal.
Some argue that many governments have simply not backed up their rhetoric about supporting Ukraine for the long haul by placing orders with arms firms.

Others insist that it takes time for industry to ramp up and restart production of such artillery shells, which until recently were not viewed as a priority for modern warfare.

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said last week he thought the problems were more technical than political.

"People with special knowledge of how things work - how spare parts work, how chains of supply work - they have to sit down and sort it out," he said.

Some officials have also blamed a decision to restrict the joint procurement drive to companies from the EU and Norway.

Asked whether it could confirm the 60,000 figure, the European Defence Agency said it did not comment on numbers.

---

This is an excellent case in point. Please cite what you think I am missing, and what your point is, in your 'alternative truth' from the article (or elsewhere). This war is going on 2 years old and they are talking about…sitting down to sort out logistics/parts, while up thread here we were just put on notice by a war fan that it's the Russians that don't get logistics.

Thanks and Gig 'em!

---

First...it's not 'Biden's proxy war'. It's the WEST'S proxy war.

I know you want to blame the entire thing on Biden (who is the dumbest guy we've EVER had as POTUS) but it isn't. Now, did Putin decide that because the US was being run by a potato that it would be a good time to invade? Quite possibly. But, he was always going to invade. Biden being in office just made it easier since Putin knew he was an idiot.

Second, you stated:

Quote:

---

It sounds to me like the EU is unlikely to hit 50% of their targeted/promised 155mm 'aid' to Ukrainians.

---

Nowhere in the explanations part does it state that. Pretty much all the reasons are logistical issues that are being worked through.

You are posting parts of articles without attribution OR context and then giving a commentary that you make up that doesn't meet what the articles actually state. And with no link most won't know, as Paul Harvey put it, the rest of the story.

So, you keep up with 'another perspective' and YOUR 'alternative truth'...

Just know that it's obvious you're just posting Russian propaganda and trying to disguise it...

IslanderAg04 said:

---

Teslag said:

---

TheGreatEscape said:

---

People are people. Just because you don't agree with the positions of other people on certain disciplines, doesn't mean that the said persons quotes on other positions that support your viewpoint are invalid.

We do this all the time. I wish I had a post tracker or microphone next to all of conversations of y'all doing the same thing, even in academia, that Nortex has securely done.

---

It simply an issue of credibility. If you consider someone is gospel on one issue you can't simply hand wave away their information on others.

The cold hard reality is these sources (Simplicious, Bebo, Geroman, Olga Bezova, etc) are pro Russia, Pro China, pro Hamas, Pro Iran and make no bones about those positions. They do not like the west. They do not like American ideals. They don't like Biden. They don't like Trump. They do not want good for any of us.

When you lend them credibility you help them accomplish their mission and those they act in agency for.

---

Isnt this thread literally called from another persoective?

---

It IS 'another perspective'...

Perhaps renaming it to 'from the Russian perspective' would make it more accurate.

Ukrainian Air raid alerts haven’t turned off for more the two hours for about three days now. pic.twitter.com/2pYBMYVVrR

— ayden (@squatsons) December 31, 2023

Teslag said:

---

TheGreatEscape said:

---

People are people. Just because you don't agree with the positions of other people on certain disciplines, doesn't mean that the said persons quotes on other positions that support your viewpoint are invalid.

We do this all the time. I wish I had a post tracker or microphone next to all of conversations of y'all doing the same thing, even in academia, that Nortex has securely done.

---

It simply an issue of credibility. If you consider someone is gospel on one issue you can't simply hand wave away their information on others.

The cold hard reality is these sources (Simplicious, Bebo, Geroman, Olga Bezova, etc) are pro Russia, Pro China, pro Hamas, Pro Iran and make no bones about those positions. They do not like the west. They do not like American ideals. They don't like Biden. They don't like Trump. They do not want good for any of us.

When you lend them credibility you help them accomplish their mission and those they act in agency for.

---

Yep. We take every quote with a grain of salt.
That is why historical context in global politics carries more weight in regards to authority.

What Russia is doing is probably not even close to what Americans did when we invaded British Canada for timber and pride in the war of 1812.

For not only have we stopped the Russian oil pipeline; we have stopped their pursuit of rich farm land.

We were twice more in error than the Russians you oppose.

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

I stopped providing some links when 'some' just whined about what was not (fair use) excerpted by me. Just trying not to be in a silly back and forth about that.

If you have a tough time finding it or a substantive critique please do let me know, curious what any might be, from the 'pro Biden proxy-war' side of our political spectrum.

It sounds to me like the EU is unlikely to hit 50% of their targeted/promised 155mm 'aid' to Ukrainians. One mustn't look just to Russian sources of course to see the Ukrainians being largely abandoned. Reuters (admittedly a pro-CCP outfit) in early December:

Quote:

---

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - European Union countries have placed orders for only 60,000 artillery shells under an EU scheme to help get 1 million rounds of ammunition to Ukraine by next spring, according to people familiar with the figures.

The scheme was a centrepiece of an EU initiative to ramp up the supply of vital 155mm artillery shells to Ukraine, allowing countries to place orders with industry through contracts negotiated by the bloc's European Defence Agency (EDA).

The broader initiative, launched in March, offered various schemes to get 1 million shells and missiles to Ukraine within a year for the war against Russia's invasion.

Together, those schemes have yielded some 480,000 munitions, according to the EU - less than half of the target, with about four months to go.

The particularly small volume of orders for the scheme at the heart of the programme highlights bigger struggles that the EU is facing in trying to hit the target.

In a sign of concern at the low volume of orders so far, a draft declaration for an EU summit next week "stresses the urgent need to accelerate the delivery of missiles and ammunition, notably under the one million rounds of artillery ammunition initiative".

Artillery rounds are a crucial element in the war of attrition between Ukrainian troops and Russia's invasion forces, with each side firing thousands of shells every day.

The European Defence Agency said in September that seven countries had ordered ammunition through the pioneering joint procurement scheme. Lithuania, Denmark and Luxembourg said they were among the seven.

The EDA did not specify the size of the orders. But people familiar with the figures told Reuters on condition of anonymity the total was just 60,000 shells.

---

---

Ah...so now if I'm not pro-Putin like you, I must be pro-Biden?

Funny...

BTW, if you actually read that WHOLE article from Reuters (that you didn't attribute), it doesn't say what you're claiming...

The Link in case people want to read with context...

---

You did it, good (and no I didn't imply you are pro-biden but this is his proxy war after all). But, you still failed to provide a counter-point. What is it, that 'other explanations' might exist? People should trust in a magical 4 month surge in 155mm shell production for orders not placed from the EU on the basis of 'priorities?'

Quote:

---

DIFFERENT EXPLANATIONS

Officials and industry leaders have offered different explanations for the EU's struggle to meet the goal.
Some argue that many governments have simply not backed up their rhetoric about supporting Ukraine for the long haul by placing orders with arms firms.

Others insist that it takes time for industry to ramp up and restart production of such artillery shells, which until recently were not viewed as a priority for modern warfare.

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said last week he thought the problems were more technical than political.

"People with special knowledge of how things work - how spare parts work, how chains of supply work - they have to sit down and sort it out," he said.

Some officials have also blamed a decision to restrict the joint procurement drive to companies from the EU and Norway.

Asked whether it could confirm the 60,000 figure, the European Defence Agency said it did not comment on numbers.

---

This is an excellent case in point. Please cite what you think I am missing, and what your point is, in your 'alternative truth' from the article (or elsewhere). This war is going on 2 years old and they are talking about…sitting down to sort out logistics/parts, while up thread here we were just put on notice by a war fan that it's the Russians that don't get logistics.

Thanks and Gig 'em!

---

First...it's not 'Biden's proxy war'. It's the WEST'S proxy war.

I know you want to blame the entire thing on Biden (who is the dumbest guy we've EVER had as POTUS) but it isn't. Now, did Putin decide that because the US was being run by a potato that it would be a good time to invade? Quite possibly. But, he was always going to invade. Biden being in office just made it easier since Putin knew he was an idiot.

Second, you stated:

Quote:

---

It sounds to me like the EU is unlikely to hit 50% of their targeted/promised 155mm 'aid' to Ukrainians.

---

Nowhere in the explanations part does it state that. Pretty much all the reasons are logistical issues that are being worked through.

You are posting parts of articles without attribution OR context and then giving a commentary that you make up that doesn't meet what the articles actually state. And with no link most won't know, as Paul Harvey put it, the rest of the story.

So, you keep up with 'another perspective' and YOUR 'alternative truth'...

Just know that it's obvious you're just posting Russian propaganda and trying to disguise it...

---

It's bidens proxy war. Have discussed the reasons repeatedly. Europe didn't provoke Russia. Or blow the Nordstream pipeline.

He didn't invade under Obama or trump for many reasons. Didn't have to but was provoked by Biden team.

What parts, again am I missing? Are the articles not easily found?

Please be specific with what duty I have and failed at for quoting. Do you think the eu will hit a million shells in the twelve months they committed to somehow and on what basis?

What plants in the eu are ramping up to do that? What orders have been placed? What source did I partially support which justifies your math?

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Ukrainian Air raid alerts haven’t turned off for more the two hours for about three days now. pic.twitter.com/2pYBMYVVrR

— ayden (@squatsons) December 31, 2023

---

Russians attacking Ukrainian civilians.

I guess I missed your condemnation.

nortex97 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

I stopped providing some links when 'some' just whined about what was not (fair use) excerpted by me. Just trying not to be in a silly back and forth about that.

If you have a tough time finding it or a substantive critique please do let me know, curious what any might be, from the 'pro Biden proxy-war' side of our political spectrum.

It sounds to me like the EU is unlikely to hit 50% of their targeted/promised 155mm 'aid' to Ukrainians. One mustn't look just to Russian sources of course to see the Ukrainians being largely abandoned. Reuters (admittedly a pro-CCP outfit) in early December:

Quote:

---

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - European Union countries have placed orders for only 60,000 artillery shells under an EU scheme to help get 1 million rounds of ammunition to Ukraine by next spring, according to people familiar with the figures.

The scheme was a centrepiece of an EU initiative to ramp up the supply of vital 155mm artillery shells to Ukraine, allowing countries to place orders with industry through contracts negotiated by the bloc's European Defence Agency (EDA).

The broader initiative, launched in March, offered various schemes to get 1 million shells and missiles to Ukraine within a year for the war against Russia's invasion.

Together, those schemes have yielded some 480,000 munitions, according to the EU - less than half of the target, with about four months to go.

The particularly small volume of orders for the scheme at the heart of the programme highlights bigger struggles that the EU is facing in trying to hit the target.

In a sign of concern at the low volume of orders so far, a draft declaration for an EU summit next week "stresses the urgent need to accelerate the delivery of missiles and ammunition, notably under the one million rounds of artillery ammunition initiative".

Artillery rounds are a crucial element in the war of attrition between Ukrainian troops and Russia's invasion forces, with each side firing thousands of shells every day.

The European Defence Agency said in September that seven countries had ordered ammunition through the pioneering joint procurement scheme. Lithuania, Denmark and Luxembourg said they were among the seven.

The EDA did not specify the size of the orders. But people familiar with the figures told Reuters on condition of anonymity the total was just 60,000 shells.

---

---

Ah...so now if I'm not pro-Putin like you, I must be pro-Biden?

Funny...

BTW, if you actually read that WHOLE article from Reuters (that you didn't attribute), it doesn't say what you're claiming...

The Link in case people want to read with context...

---

You did it, good (and no I didn't imply you are pro-biden but this is his proxy war after all). But, you still failed to provide a counter-point. What is it, that 'other explanations' might exist? People should trust in a magical 4 month surge in 155mm shell production for orders not placed from the EU on the basis of 'priorities?'

Quote:

---

DIFFERENT EXPLANATIONS

Officials and industry leaders have offered different explanations for the EU's struggle to meet the goal.
Some argue that many governments have simply not backed up their rhetoric about supporting Ukraine for the long haul by placing orders with arms firms.

Others insist that it takes time for industry to ramp up and restart production of such artillery shells, which until recently were not viewed as a priority for modern warfare.

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said last week he thought the problems were more technical than political.

"People with special knowledge of how things work - how spare parts work, how chains of supply work - they have to sit down and sort it out," he said.

Some officials have also blamed a decision to restrict the joint procurement drive to companies from the EU and Norway.

Asked whether it could confirm the 60,000 figure, the European Defence Agency said it did not comment on numbers.

---

This is an excellent case in point. Please cite what you think I am missing, and what your point is, in your 'alternative truth' from the article (or elsewhere). This war is going on 2 years old and they are talking about…sitting down to sort out logistics/parts, while up thread here we were just put on notice by a war fan that it's the Russians that don't get logistics.

Thanks and Gig 'em!

---

First...it's not 'Biden's proxy war'. It's the WEST'S proxy war.

I know you want to blame the entire thing on Biden (who is the dumbest guy we've EVER had as POTUS) but it isn't. Now, did Putin decide that because the US was being run by a potato that it would be a good time to invade? Quite possibly. But, he was always going to invade. Biden being in office just made it easier since Putin knew he was an idiot.

Second, you stated:

Quote:

---

It sounds to me like the EU is unlikely to hit 50% of their targeted/promised 155mm 'aid' to Ukrainians.

---

Nowhere in the explanations part does it state that. Pretty much all the reasons are logistical issues that are being worked through.

You are posting parts of articles without attribution OR context and then giving a commentary that you make up that doesn't meet what the articles actually state. And with no link most won't know, as Paul Harvey put it, the rest of the story.

So, you keep up with 'another perspective' and YOUR 'alternative truth'...

Just know that it's obvious you're just posting Russian propaganda and trying to disguise it...

---

It's bidens proxy war. Have discussed the reasons repeatedly. Europe didn't provoke Russia. Or blow the Nordstream pipeline.

He didn't invade under Obama or trump for many reasons. Didn't have to but was provoked by Biden team.

What parts, again am I missing? Are the articles not easily found?

Please be specific with what duty I have and failed at for quoting. Do you think the eu will hit a million shells in the twelve months they committed to somehow and on what basis?

What plants in the eu are ramping up to do that? What orders have been placed? What source did I partially support which justifies your math?

---

Putin LITERALLY had Russia invade Crimea in 2014. Crimea is part of Ukraine. Russia has been using proxies to take over areas of the eastern part since then, too (including when Trump was in office).

I get it. You hate Biden. But, that doesn't mean that Putin invaded because of him...

Crimea is Russia actually. Has been for almost a decade now.

IslanderAg04 said:

---

Teslag said:

---

TheGreatEscape said:

---

People are people. Just because you don't agree with the positions of other people on certain disciplines, doesn't mean that the said persons quotes on other positions that support your viewpoint are invalid.

We do this all the time. I wish I had a post tracker or microphone next to all of conversations of y'all doing the same thing, even in academia, that Nortex has securely done.

---

It simply an issue of credibility. If you consider someone is gospel on one issue you can't simply hand wave away their information on others.

The cold hard reality is these sources (Simplicious, Bebo, Geroman, Olga Bezova, etc) are pro Russia, Pro China, pro Hamas, Pro Iran and make no bones about those positions. They do not like the west. They do not like American ideals. They don't like Biden. They don't like Trump. They do not want good for any of us.

When you lend them credibility you help them accomplish their mission and those they act in agency for.

---

Isnt this thread literally called from another persoective?

---

Sharing the perspectives of the enemies of the United States (Russia, China, Iran et al) is a good thing. It's wise to know position and ideals of your adversary. Where that starts to cross a line for me is lending these agents with credibility, framing your opinions around them, and outright supporting their military objectives and accomplishments.

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Crimea is Russia actually. Has been for almost a decade now.

---

What was it in 2013?

Quote:

---

He didn't invade under Obama or trump for many reasons. Didn't have to but was provoked by Biden team

---

Russia invaded Ukraine under Obama.

Russian PMC's attacked American positions in Syria under Trump.

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Crimea is Russia actually. Has been for almost a decade now.

---

It wasn't when Russia invaded in 2014 during Obama's term.

So, therefore, this is just a continuation of OBAMA'S proxy war...

ETA: I deliberately put "is" in my post to see who would bite on that...

And for the record I don't think Nortex is pro Russian. I think he's so blinded by hating a feeble old man like Biden that he will cast his lot behind a violent dictator that hates the west if it means there's a chance to blame Biden.

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

I stopped providing some links when 'some' just whined about what was not (fair use) excerpted by me. Just trying not to be in a silly back and forth about that.

If you have a tough time finding it or a substantive critique please do let me know, curious what any might be, from the 'pro Biden proxy-war' side of our political spectrum.

It sounds to me like the EU is unlikely to hit 50% of their targeted/promised 155mm 'aid' to Ukrainians. One mustn't look just to Russian sources of course to see the Ukrainians being largely abandoned. Reuters (admittedly a pro-CCP outfit) in early December:

Quote:

---

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - European Union countries have placed orders for only 60,000 artillery shells under an EU scheme to help get 1 million rounds of ammunition to Ukraine by next spring, according to people familiar with the figures.

The scheme was a centrepiece of an EU initiative to ramp up the supply of vital 155mm artillery shells to Ukraine, allowing countries to place orders with industry through contracts negotiated by the bloc's European Defence Agency (EDA).

The broader initiative, launched in March, offered various schemes to get 1 million shells and missiles to Ukraine within a year for the war against Russia's invasion.

Together, those schemes have yielded some 480,000 munitions, according to the EU - less than half of the target, with about four months to go.

The particularly small volume of orders for the scheme at the heart of the programme highlights bigger struggles that the EU is facing in trying to hit the target.

In a sign of concern at the low volume of orders so far, a draft declaration for an EU summit next week "stresses the urgent need to accelerate the delivery of missiles and ammunition, notably under the one million rounds of artillery ammunition initiative".

Artillery rounds are a crucial element in the war of attrition between Ukrainian troops and Russia's invasion forces, with each side firing thousands of shells every day.

The European Defence Agency said in September that seven countries had ordered ammunition through the pioneering joint procurement scheme. Lithuania, Denmark and Luxembourg said they were among the seven.

The EDA did not specify the size of the orders. But people familiar with the figures told Reuters on condition of anonymity the total was just 60,000 shells.

---

---

Ah...so now if I'm not pro-Putin like you, I must be pro-Biden?

Funny...

BTW, if you actually read that WHOLE article from Reuters (that you didn't attribute), it doesn't say what you're claiming...

The Link in case people want to read with context...

---

You did it, good (and no I didn't imply you are pro-biden but this is his proxy war after all). But, you still failed to provide a counter-point. What is it, that 'other explanations' might exist? People should trust in a magical 4 month surge in 155mm shell production for orders not placed from the EU on the basis of 'priorities?'

Quote:

---

DIFFERENT EXPLANATIONS

Officials and industry leaders have offered different explanations for the EU's struggle to meet the goal.
Some argue that many governments have simply not backed up their rhetoric about supporting Ukraine for the long haul by placing orders with arms firms.

Others insist that it takes time for industry to ramp up and restart production of such artillery shells, which until recently were not viewed as a priority for modern warfare.

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said last week he thought the problems were more technical than political.

"People with special knowledge of how things work - how spare parts work, how chains of supply work - they have to sit down and sort it out," he said.

Some officials have also blamed a decision to restrict the joint procurement drive to companies from the EU and Norway.

Asked whether it could confirm the 60,000 figure, the European Defence Agency said it did not comment on numbers.

---

This is an excellent case in point. Please cite what you think I am missing, and what your point is, in your 'alternative truth' from the article (or elsewhere). This war is going on 2 years old and they are talking about…sitting down to sort out logistics/parts, while up thread here we were just put on notice by a war fan that it's the Russians that don't get logistics.

Thanks and Gig 'em!

---

First...it's not 'Biden's proxy war'. It's the WEST'S proxy war.

I know you want to blame the entire thing on Biden (who is the dumbest guy we've EVER had as POTUS) but it isn't. Now, did Putin decide that because the US was being run by a potato that it would be a good time to invade? Quite possibly. But, he was always going to invade. Biden being in office just made it easier since Putin knew he was an idiot.

Second, you stated:

Quote:

---

It sounds to me like the EU is unlikely to hit 50% of their targeted/promised 155mm 'aid' to Ukrainians.

---

Nowhere in the explanations part does it state that. Pretty much all the reasons are logistical issues that are being worked through.

You are posting parts of articles without attribution OR context and then giving a commentary that you make up that doesn't meet what the articles actually state. And with no link most won't know, as Paul Harvey put it, the rest of the story.

So, you keep up with 'another perspective' and YOUR 'alternative truth'...

Just know that it's obvious you're just posting Russian propaganda and trying to disguise it...

---

It's bidens proxy war. Have discussed the reasons repeatedly. Europe didn't provoke Russia. Or blow the Nordstream pipeline.

He didn't invade under Obama or trump for many reasons. Didn't have to but was provoked by Biden team.

What parts, again am I missing? Are the articles not easily found?

Please be specific with what duty I have and failed at for quoting. Do you think the eu will hit a million shells in the twelve months they committed to somehow and on what basis?

What plants in the eu are ramping up to do that? What orders have been placed? What source did I partially support which justifies your math?

---

Putin LITERALLY had Russia invade Crimea in 2014. Crimea is part of Ukraine. Russia has been using proxies to take over areas of the eastern part since then, too (including when Trump was in office).

I get it. You hate Biden. But, that doesn't mean that Putin invaded because of him...

---

I do admit to despising China Joe Biden. But Crimea and the Black Sea fleet wasn't something Putin was about to concede, and Obama certainly facilitated that belief well past those dates in 2014. It's also true Crimea is…mostly Russian. Was Obama wrong not to risk WW3 in 2014 over Sevastopol? No. Does that mean subsequent Clinton/Biden graft in Ukraine/Russia should be overlooked or ignored? No.

In fact, go back many pages and it's well documented as to my positions on all that.

This is a far-away (largely) civil war we have no business in. We also used proxies plenty in the 'maiden' revolution too, as most are aware. Not just Nuland, either.

I remain steadfast that Biden familia corruption (and the need to cover it up) in Ukraine-Russia-China is what led to this; the proximate cause of the whole conflict. Meanwhile, no one has told me how the EU will hit their 1MM goal of 155mm shell 'aid' to Kiev in the 12 months they promised. So I guess my citations were accurate, after all.

Teslag said:

---

And for the record I don't think Nortex is pro Russian. I think he's so blinded by hating a feeble old man like Biden that he will cast his lot behind a violent dictator that hates the west if it means there's a chance to blame Biden.

---

I tend to agree...

Teslag said:

---

IslanderAg04 said:

---

Teslag said:

---

TheGreatEscape said:

---

People are people. Just because you don't agree with the positions of other people on certain disciplines, doesn't mean that the said persons quotes on other positions that support your viewpoint are invalid.

We do this all the time. I wish I had a post tracker or microphone next to all of conversations of y'all doing the same thing, even in academia, that Nortex has securely done.

---

It simply an issue of credibility. If you consider someone is gospel on one issue you can't simply hand wave away their information on others.

The cold hard reality is these sources (Simplicious, Bebo, Geroman, Olga Bezova, etc) are pro Russia, Pro China, pro Hamas, Pro Iran and make no bones about those positions. They do not like the west. They do not like American ideals. They don't like Biden. They don't like Trump. They do not want good for any of us.

When you lend them credibility you help them accomplish their mission and those they act in agency for.

---

Isnt this thread literally called from another persoective?

---

Sharing the perspectives of the enemies of the United States (Russia, China, Iran et al) is a good thing. It's wise to know position and ideals of your adversary. Where that starts to cross a line for me is lending these agents with credibility, framing your opinions around them, and outright supporting their military objectives and accomplishments.

---

Sounds very liberal of you.

Enemies with Russia? Okay. I don't think the French or German worshippers of Karl Marx are our allies.

IslanderAg04 said:

---

Teslag said:

---

IslanderAg04 said:

---

Teslag said:

---

TheGreatEscape said:

---

People are people. Just because you don't agree with the positions of other people on certain disciplines, doesn't mean that the said persons quotes on other positions that support your viewpoint are invalid.

We do this all the time. I wish I had a post tracker or microphone next to all of conversations of y'all doing the same thing, even in academia, that Nortex has securely done.

---

It simply an issue of credibility. If you consider someone is gospel on one issue you can't simply hand wave away their information on others.

The cold hard reality is these sources (Simplicious, Bebo, Geroman, Olga Bezova, etc) are pro Russia, Pro China, pro Hamas, Pro Iran and make no bones about those positions. They do not like the west. They do not like American ideals. They don't like Biden. They don't like Trump. They do not want good for any of us.

When you lend them credibility you help them accomplish their mission and those they act in agency for.

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Isnt this thread literally called from another persoective?

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Sharing the perspectives of the enemies of the United States (Russia, China, Iran et al) is a good thing. It's wise to know position and ideals of your adversary. Where that starts to cross a line for me is lending these agents with credibility, framing your opinions around them, and outright supporting their military objectives and accomplishments.

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Sounds very liberal of you.

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Russia, china, and Iran hate everything about you, your values, and your community more than any liberal every could.

Ag with kids said:

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Teslag said:

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And for the record I don't think Nortex is pro Russian. I think he's so blinded by hating a feeble old man like Biden that he will cast his lot behind a violent dictator that hates the west if it means there's a chance to blame Biden.

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I tend to agree...

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The disconnect here is that, yet again (sorry to repeat myself), Biden is (a) not the real leader in the White House, (b) Biden's family has been on the communist china/russian/ukrainian oligarch payroll for decades, and (c) Kiev is ruled by a violent totalitarian/dictator as well. The Biden proxy war in Ukraine has benefitted China, his primary paymasters.

Other than that, mostly sound logic. Just, devoid of substantive rebuttals toward any points made today.

I'll just ask one more time for posterity, will the EU meet their 'priority' goal of 155mm ammo 'aid' to Ukraine in the 12 months they provided? Are there any actual substantive complaints as to what I 'fair use' cited above?

nortex97 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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Teslag said:

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And for the record I don't think Nortex is pro Russian. I think he's so blinded by hating a feeble old man like Biden that he will cast his lot behind a violent dictator that hates the west if it means there's a chance to blame Biden.

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I tend to agree...

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The disconnect here is that, yet again (sorry to repeat myself), Biden is (a) not the real leader in the White House, (b) Biden's family has been on the communist china/russian/ukrainian oligarch payroll for decades, and (c) Kiev is ruled by a violent totalitarian/dictator as well. The Biden proxy war in Ukraine has benefitted China, his primary paymasters.

Other than that, mostly sound logic. Just, devoid of substantive rebuttals toward any points made today.

I'll just ask one more time for posterity, will the EU meet their 'priority' goal of 155mm ammo 'aid' to Ukraine in the 12 months they provided? Are there any actual substantive complaints as to what I 'fair use' cited above?

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Your disconnect is to think that Putin invading Ukraine has anything to do with Biden/China/EU/Obama/Anyone else and not solely with Putin wanting to absorb Ukraine back into Mother Russia.

Everything else is just either background noise or Putin's excuses...

And to answer the question, I don't know if they will, although I expect they'll pull their heads out after awhile and a) either get close to the amount by the due date or b) get the full amount but after the due date. Euros are lazy ****s so it could be either one. However, I DO know that the article you posted does not substantiate your point about not meeting 50%.

nortex97 said:

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Soon... pic.twitter.com/eZEmeYBfLU

— Hassan Mafi ‏ (@thatdayin1992) December 30, 2023

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I don't think Poland wants Russia on their border. Belarus is bad enough in their eyes.

Before Ukraine collapses, expect Poland to rush in and secure the western half of Ukraine. Ironically, this will fulfill the Russian propaganda early in the war that Poland would use the war with Russia as an excuse to take a bite out of western Ukraine.

Ag with kids said:

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nortex97 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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Teslag said:

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And for the record I don't think Nortex is pro Russian. I think he's so blinded by hating a feeble old man like Biden that he will cast his lot behind a violent dictator that hates the west if it means there's a chance to blame Biden.

---

I tend to agree...

---

The disconnect here is that, yet again (sorry to repeat myself), Biden is (a) not the real leader in the White House, (b) Biden's family has been on the communist china/russian/ukrainian oligarch payroll for decades, and (c) Kiev is ruled by a violent totalitarian/dictator as well. The Biden proxy war in Ukraine has benefitted China, his primary paymasters.

Other than that, mostly sound logic. Just, devoid of substantive rebuttals toward any points made today.

I'll just ask one more time for posterity, will the EU meet their 'priority' goal of 155mm ammo 'aid' to Ukraine in the 12 months they provided? Are there any actual substantive complaints as to what I 'fair use' cited above?

---

Your disconnect is to think that Putin invading Ukraine has anything to do with Biden/China/EU/Obama/Anyone else and not solely with Putin wanting to absorb Ukraine back into Mother Russia.

Everything else is just either background noise or Putin's excuses...

And to answer the question, I don't know if they will, although I expect they'll pull their heads out after awhile and a) either get close to the amount by the due date or b) get the full amount but after the due date. Euros are lazy ****s so it could be either one. However, I DO know that the article you posted does not substantiate your point about not meeting 50%.

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The thing is again about the ammo orders from the EU it's emblematic of any dissent from orthodoxy about 'support for Ukraine.' I posted a Reuters excerpt from early December about being well short of half the orders/deliveries through 9 months of the 12 month period promised. No rebuttal info is offered, but it's widely demagogued as "Russian propaganda" etc.

Why, and on what basis?

Robert Gates and many others have documented well that culpability for the provocation for the war runs quite a few years back, beyond even Biden.

Please tell me how Russia is not moving further away from socialism?

They aren't moving towards capitalism and the values of a free society either

TheGreatEscape said:

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Please tell me how Russia is not moving further away from socialism?

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It's debatable where any component of humanity (within a nation state or not) in the 'developed world' is moving, as far as to/from a market based economy and free speech.

Has George Soros' 'team' said anything directly about how they want the Biden Ukraine proxy war to go/turn out?

Teslag said:

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They aren't moving towards capitalism and the values of a free society either

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What evidence do you suggest supports your view?

Ag with kids said:

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nortex97 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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Teslag said:

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And for the record I don't think Nortex is pro Russian. I think he's so blinded by hating a feeble old man like Biden that he will cast his lot behind a violent dictator that hates the west if it means there's a chance to blame Biden.

---

I tend to agree...

---

The disconnect here is that, yet again (sorry to repeat myself), Biden is (a) not the real leader in the White House, (b) Biden's family has been on the communist china/russian/ukrainian oligarch payroll for decades, and (c) Kiev is ruled by a violent totalitarian/dictator as well. The Biden proxy war in Ukraine has benefitted China, his primary paymasters.

Other than that, mostly sound logic. Just, devoid of substantive rebuttals toward any points made today.

I'll just ask one more time for posterity, will the EU meet their 'priority' goal of 155mm ammo 'aid' to Ukraine in the 12 months they provided? Are there any actual substantive complaints as to what I 'fair use' cited above?

---

Your disconnect is to think that Putin invading Ukraine has anything to do with Biden/China/EU/Obama/Anyone else and not solely with Putin wanting to absorb Ukraine back into Mother Russia.

Everything else is just either background noise or Putin's excuses...

And to answer the question, I don't know if they will, although I expect they'll pull their heads out after awhile and a) either get close to the amount by the due date or b) get the full amount but after the due date. Euros are lazy ****s so it could be either one. However, I DO know that the article you posted does not substantiate your point about not meeting 50%.

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"The full amount after the due date". This is pitiful from a tactical analysis standpoint.

TheGreatEscape said:

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Teslag said:

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They aren't moving towards capitalism and the values of a free society either

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What evidence do you suggest supports your view?

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Is this a real question?

Yes. Are you assuming that capitalism can only exist in a Republican Constitutional Democracy?

Are you assuming that all legislation never legislates morality?

What's your beef?

TheGreatEscape said:

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Yes. Are you assuming that capitalism can only exist in a Republican Constitutional Democracy?

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For the most part yes. It definitely cannot exist under a system of oligarchy led by a violent bloodthirsty despot.

That is unfounded and you know this.
Great Britain had capitalism under a direct monarch until 1689 gave them more liberty. But this took years dating back to 1215.

Europe is largely made up of Marxist democracies. Democracy doesn't make one truly a free market or a true capitalistic society.

Switzerland is great in capitalism and they are an oligarchy.

Your argument needs help. Violent bloodthirsty Putin? Hahah. This is empty rhetoric without any substance.
We prolonged the war in Ukraine with the help of other Marxists like us in Europe. And we have blood on our own hands, too.

Russia is free. Let her be.

Which do you think is correct?

Numbers are getting softer, could mean a couple of things.

1. Ukrainian AD is becoming exhausted and they can’t intercept as many.

2. There are to many claims of Russian terror attacks and the numbers need to reflect that through missed drones.

3. They’re fudging the numbers… https://t.co/lIWmodfQiv

— ayden (@squatsons) December 31, 2023

If replying to this post, share which number you think is happening rn and why. W/o a number to start your reply I will mistake your post for the contrarian drivel the pro-war regulars usually come up with; and for that reason I'll miss it.

Happy new year! Another angle of this mornings friendly fire incident. Perhaps instead of respouting who posted it we'll get an explanation from the Ukeleles as to why we're seeking Ukes gun down other Ukes. Unlikely, but perhaps! They all met jesus at the end, but maybe its propaganda? Rest assured they'll tell us.

🇺🇦🇷🇺🚨‼️ Retreating AFU soldiers are attacked by Ukranian barrier troops.

No retreat allowed. pic.twitter.com/Q9Ot6FaBiM

— Lord Bebo (@MyLordBebo) December 31, 2023

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Ag with kids said:

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nortex97 said:

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Ag with kids said:

---

Teslag said:

---

And for the record I don't think Nortex is pro Russian. I think he's so blinded by hating a feeble old man like Biden that he will cast his lot behind a violent dictator that hates the west if it means there's a chance to blame Biden.

---

I tend to agree...

---

The disconnect here is that, yet again (sorry to repeat myself), Biden is (a) not the real leader in the White House, (b) Biden's family has been on the communist china/russian/ukrainian oligarch payroll for decades, and (c) Kiev is ruled by a violent totalitarian/dictator as well. The Biden proxy war in Ukraine has benefitted China, his primary paymasters.

Other than that, mostly sound logic. Just, devoid of substantive rebuttals toward any points made today.

I'll just ask one more time for posterity, will the EU meet their 'priority' goal of 155mm ammo 'aid' to Ukraine in the 12 months they provided? Are there any actual substantive complaints as to what I 'fair use' cited above?

---

Your disconnect is to think that Putin invading Ukraine has anything to do with Biden/China/EU/Obama/Anyone else and not solely with Putin wanting to absorb Ukraine back into Mother Russia.

Everything else is just either background noise or Putin's excuses...

And to answer the question, I don't know if they will, although I expect they'll pull their heads out after awhile and a) either get close to the amount by the due date or b) get the full amount but after the due date. Euros are lazy ****s so it could be either one. However, I DO know that the article you posted does not substantiate your point about not meeting 50%.

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"The full amount after the due date". This is pitiful from a tactical analysis standpoint.

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Well, you're the expert in pitiful tactical analysis standpoints...