Teslag said:

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Especially when one considers that Russia is having to basically claw and scratch for everything they can just hold the ukes at bay at this point. How much will they have to spend and produce if they ever intend on an offensive? The US right now is spending about 3% of our defense budget on this. It's a pittance and the Russians are having to turn over the earth just to keep up. If it's an attrition battle the Russians are screwed.

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Its way north of that as has been reported just a few pages back. The 3% is a huge lie. Huge. Lie.

Why is it the pro-Uke group has to continually just make **** up?

In 18 months the US has sent $23 billion in weapons to Ukraine. That's an average of $15 billion per year. The proposed FY2024 defense budget is around $840 billion. So you are right. The actual weapons portion of our aid isn't 3% of our defense budget.

It's 1.7%. Thanks for keeping me in check.

If you include total weapons and security assistance it's $28 Billion per year, which is 3.3%.

fka ftc said:

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Teslag said:

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Especially when one considers that Russia is having to basically claw and scratch for everything they can just hold the ukes at bay at this point. How much will they have to spend and produce if they ever intend on an offensive? The US right now is spending about 3% of our defense budget on this. It's a pittance and the Russians are having to turn over the earth just to keep up. If it's an attrition battle the Russians are screwed.

---

Its way north of that as has been reported just a few pages back. The 3% is a huge lie. Huge. Lie.

Why is it the pro-Uke group has to continually just make **** up?

---

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/08/04/ukraine-war-us-spending/

This August 2023 Washington. Post article had the military aid (not including the humanitarian and economic aid $) at $43.1 billion. With the humanitarian and economic was $66 billion. Congress was asking for another $20 billion at time of this article.

The article then has a chart indicating the U.S. DOD defense budget for 2023 is $1.7 Trillion.

If for example let's say 2023 was $100 billion to Ukraine, then rough math indicates about 6% of our overall defense budget for 2023.

At least $100 billion.

https://www.crfb.org/blogs/congress-approved-113-billion-aid-ukraine-2022

Yep, even with a stretch to $100 billion it's 6.6%. That's nothing. Russia is having to stretch high and thin just to keep up with that. And that's just OUR aid. Other NATO countries are pouring more in as well while at the same time replacing what they give with more orders from our domestic weapons industry.

I think that excludes the actual presidential draw downs, and some non-appropriated funds that agencies re-programmed to Ukraine as well, and of course excludes the commitments to support various things like green energy programs/blackrock post-war.

I've noted repeatedly with documented analyses that the relative benefits to this war are Russia, who has profited enormously from the global disruption in energy (especially in the first year), their military which is now tremendously stronger than January 2022 in equipment and personnel strength, and China, who via BRICS now has a growing base of economic 'clients' the world over which it otherwise would not have.

The biggest loser outside of Ukraine (which won't exist at some point as their population is demographically stuck and already to around half pre-war), is Europe though, not us. Europe has had to spend an enormous amount both sustaining the UFA as best they can (not well), and on energy/refugees etc. All of this pleases Xi no doubt, and is relayed to the Biden family handlers.

No patriot should fund a dime to Ukraine until our own invasion is addressed/stopped, and their corrupt government is wholly dismissed/replaced.

⚡️Daylight pic pic.twitter.com/5KvTWjic6l

— War Monitor (@WarMonitors) September 13, 2023

But who knows, maybe some good will come from this disgusting war.

An incisive piece of analysis by @AhmedKaballo from our BRICS stream https://t.co/X0j1t9TiCs https://t.co/X9eiyh8xzu

— Max Blumenthal (@MaxBlumenthal) September 13, 2023

Quote:

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their military which is now tremendously stronger than January 2022 in equipment and personnel strength

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According to who?

fka ftc said:

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At least $100 billion.

https://www.crfb.org/blogs/congress-approved-113-billion-aid-ukraine-2022

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In comparison Russia 's defense budget for 2023 reported here at $100 billion, about 19% of their national budget.

The difference in economic size between US and Russia alone is so huge that the Ukrainians are essentially getting a military budget/funding equal to the Russians, but is like a billionaire (U.S.) in an expensive long court battle with a mere multi-millionaire (Russia)…with Russia using their own troops while the U.S. is outsourcing.

Which is why my cynical hat…purely thinking about Russia vs US Cold War chess match…has a hard time buying in that Russia 'wins' something like this if it drags on for years and years.

And regarding Ukrainian manpower…the Viet Cong never ran out of troops. I am skeptical they are anywhere close to 'running out' of guys if they have a population who is fueled by patriotism and wants to fight. As I have stated, this thing smells like 'stalemate' to me right now. But the USA is in a better position to say 'Let's play this game for 5 more years!' Than the Russians would be. Russia of course is counting on the Western democratic systems to fold and concede them a 'W' eventually.

Quote:

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this thing smells like 'stalemate' to me right now.

---

The lines may shift in favor of Ukraine a little bit more, but largely stay where they are. Russia just doesn't have the ability to push back significantly against western weapons and funding. There's really nothing they can do to force Ukraine out of NATO if peace comes.

TheBonifaceOption said:

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GAC06 said:

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Modern war is won through industry, not bodies. You got that completely wrong. Neither Ukraine or Russia are about to run out of bodies. Countries didn't run out of bodies in WWI, which was orders of magnitude more intense in regards to attrition.

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Clearly you aren't a historian. The countries involved in WW1, save the US and Russia, were massively decimated. The UK didn't see its industry harmed by Germans, yet the empire never recovered from the loss of 900k men (which was only 6% of their total population.) It's the part of the population that sires the next generation. In fact the demographic collapse of western powers ended up being one of the selling points of nazism, which focused the Germans on having 4 children to receive full vesting from the state. Mothers who had 8+ children were venerated as township heroes, given medals, parades, and even honors greater than military officers (Iike how even US generals must salute our Medal of Honor recipients.) It was that focus of rebuilding the population that flung Germany ahead of the rest of the west. It was always about population, that's why Russia defeated Germany in ww2.

Are you honestly going to claim russias industry was anywhere on the level of the nazi's industry? Hell no, because deep down you recognize its not about pig iron.

---

The argument wasn't whether Ukraine and Russia will face a demographic crisis after the war. The notion that this modern war will be won by body count is absurd. You obviously breezed past the point that countries sustained enormously greater losses for years in more intense conflicts yet this conflict is being fought at the company, platoon, and squad level. We're not talking about the Somme here.

Pumpkinhead said:

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Are posters here debating whether Russia is getting stronger over time compared to USA or Ukraine as this drags on?

If USA…given the US's economy and population size was several times larger at the beginning of this conflict than Russia…Russia is spending much larger % of their national budget than U.S. is spending on this Special Military operation, Russia is losing an estimated 2-3 KIA a month while U.S. is losing 0, NATO is adding Finland and Sweden because of this…

Cynically…if how many Ukrainians die is irrelevant to the primary chess game of Cold War geo-politics….I am very skeptical Russia's comparative position to USA is getter better each day this drags on. If somebody wants to argue weaker but that actually makes them more dangerous, then ok. I can understand that angle of an argument. But stronger? The math doesn't seem like it could be anywhere close to ever adding up to make that case.

---

Russias deficit is 2% of GDP this year with the increased cost of war.
US's deficit is 80% GDP

But yea...Russia is overspending on this war

GAC06 said:

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TheBonifaceOption said:

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GAC06 said:

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Modern war is won through industry, not bodies. You got that completely wrong. Neither Ukraine or Russia are about to run out of bodies. Countries didn't run out of bodies in WWI, which was orders of magnitude more intense in regards to attrition.

---

Clearly you aren't a historian. The countries involved in WW1, save the US and Russia, were massively decimated. The UK didn't see its industry harmed by Germans, yet the empire never recovered from the loss of 900k men (which was only 6% of their total population.) It's the part of the population that sires the next generation. In fact the demographic collapse of western powers ended up being one of the selling points of nazism, which focused the Germans on having 4 children to receive full vesting from the state. Mothers who had 8+ children were venerated as township heroes, given medals, parades, and even honors greater than military officers (Iike how even US generals must salute our Medal of Honor recipients.) It was that focus of rebuilding the population that flung Germany ahead of the rest of the west. It was always about population, that's why Russia defeated Germany in ww2.

Are you honestly going to claim russias industry was anywhere on the level of the nazi's industry? Hell no, because deep down you recognize its not about pig iron.

---

The argument wasn't whether Ukraine and Russia will face a demographic crisis after the war. The notion that this modern war will be won by body count is absurd. You obviously breezed past the point that countries sustained enormously greater losses for years in more intense conflicts yet this conflict is being fought at the company, platoon, and squad level. We're not talking about the Somme here.

---

I wasn't speaking to the after-effects of the war, although the consequences are necessary.

Ffs, we knew Germany was over because they conscripted teenagers and elderly in '45. They had depleted the 18-40s dying in the Eastern front. It wasn't the Sherman that won the west, it was the weight of hundreds of thousand of Allied forces closing in on em. Technology is only a multiplier effect.

If manufacturing was the end all be all, Afghanistan would be conquered, Vietnam would have remained French, and Kim Jong Il would be fapping to KPop stars.

Musk turns the table on Ukraine complaints: "I couldn't turn it on in Crimea due to US sactions, Biden never gave me a directive/permission."

Quote:

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Appearing via video link at the All-In Summit 2023 tech conference in Los Angeles on Tuesday, Musk was asked why he had made that decision. The SpaceX CEO started off by stressing that his company has "provided Starlink connectivity to Ukraine" since the start of the military conflict with Russia in February 2022. He added that top Ukrainian officials have acknowledged on multiple occasions that the service has played a crucial role in fending off Moscow's offensive.

Moving on to the question about Crimea, Musk explained that "at the time this happened, the region around Crimea was actually turned off."

"Now, the reason it was turned off was actually because… the United States has sanctions against Russia… and that includes Crimea," he continued.

According to the billionaire, "we are not actually allowed to turn on connectivity to… the country without explicit [US] government approval."

Musk pointed out that even though he is not a supporter of President Joe Biden, "if I [had] received a presidential directive to turn it on, I would have done so," adding that "no such request came through."

---

Too funny.

TheBonifaceOption said:

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Pumpkinhead said:

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Are posters here debating whether Russia is getting stronger over time compared to USA or Ukraine as this drags on?

If USA…given the US's economy and population size was several times larger at the beginning of this conflict than Russia…Russia is spending much larger % of their national budget than U.S. is spending on this Special Military operation, Russia is losing an estimated 2-3 KIA a month while U.S. is losing 0, NATO is adding Finland and Sweden because of this…

Cynically…if how many Ukrainians die is irrelevant to the primary chess game of Cold War geo-politics….I am very skeptical Russia's comparative position to USA is getter better each day this drags on. If somebody wants to argue weaker but that actually makes them more dangerous, then ok. I can understand that angle of an argument. But stronger? The math doesn't seem like it could be anywhere close to ever adding up to make that case.

---

Russias deficit is 2% of GDP this year with the increased cost of war.
US's deficit is 80% GDP

But yea...Russia is overspending on this war

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80%, 5% whatever. Did you actually think what you typed was true? Yikes.

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/58946

TheBonifaceOption said:

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GAC06 said:

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TheBonifaceOption said:

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GAC06 said:

---

Modern war is won through industry, not bodies. You got that completely wrong. Neither Ukraine or Russia are about to run out of bodies. Countries didn't run out of bodies in WWI, which was orders of magnitude more intense in regards to attrition.

---

Clearly you aren't a historian. The countries involved in WW1, save the US and Russia, were massively decimated. The UK didn't see its industry harmed by Germans, yet the empire never recovered from the loss of 900k men (which was only 6% of their total population.) It's the part of the population that sires the next generation. In fact the demographic collapse of western powers ended up being one of the selling points of nazism, which focused the Germans on having 4 children to receive full vesting from the state. Mothers who had 8+ children were venerated as township heroes, given medals, parades, and even honors greater than military officers (Iike how even US generals must salute our Medal of Honor recipients.) It was that focus of rebuilding the population that flung Germany ahead of the rest of the west. It was always about population, that's why Russia defeated Germany in ww2.

Are you honestly going to claim russias industry was anywhere on the level of the nazi's industry? Hell no, because deep down you recognize its not about pig iron.

---

The argument wasn't whether Ukraine and Russia will face a demographic crisis after the war. The notion that this modern war will be won by body count is absurd. You obviously breezed past the point that countries sustained enormously greater losses for years in more intense conflicts yet this conflict is being fought at the company, platoon, and squad level. We're not talking about the Somme here.

---

I wasn't speaking to the after-effects of the war, although the consequences are necessary.

Ffs, we knew Germany was over because they conscripted teenagers and elderly in '45. They had depleted the 18-40s dying in the Eastern front. It wasn't the Sherman that won the west, it was the weight of hundreds of thousand of Allied forces closing in on em. Technology is only a multiplier effect.

If manufacturing was the end all be all, Afghanistan would be conquered, Vietnam would have remained French, and Kim Jong Il would be fapping to KPop stars.

---

Russia, with their endless supply of bodies must have easily conquered Afghanistan too then right?

It's almost like neer peer war is a different animal

Quote:

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Russias deficit is 2% of GDP this year with the increased cost of war.

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According to who?

Pumpkinhead said:

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fka ftc said:

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At least $100 billion.

https://www.crfb.org/blogs/congress-approved-113-billion-aid-ukraine-2022

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In comparison Russia 's defense budget for 2023 reported here at $100 billion, about 19% of their national budget.

The difference in economic size between US and Russia alone is so huge that the Ukrainians are essentially getting a military budget/funding equal to the Russians, but is like a billionaire (U.S.) in an expensive long court battle with a mere multi-millionaire (Russia)…with Russia using their own troops while the U.S. is outsourcing.

Which is why my cynical hat…purely thinking about Russia vs US Cold War chess match…has a hard time buying in that Russia 'wins' something like this if it drags on for years and years.

And regarding Ukrainian manpower…the Viet Cong never ran out of troops. I am skeptical they are anywhere close to 'running out' of guys if they have a population who is fueled by patriotism and wants to fight. As I have stated, this thing smells like 'stalemate' to me right now. But the USA is in a better position to say 'Let's play this game for 5 more years!' Than the Russians would be. Russia of course is counting on the Western democratic systems to fold and concede them a 'W' eventually.

---

I would encourage you to read simplicius' lengthy analyses of Ukrainian manpower and 'willingness to fight' for a different perspective as I think you are buying into some things which objectively speaking are just not true on that side.

Politically speaking, I think it is also highly unlikely the US sustains the present trajectory of material and financial aid to Ukraine to maintain some sort of status quo for 24 months, let alone 5 years. The same is true for France, the UK, and many other benefactors.

Comparing US defense spending vs. Russians similarly is not particularly useful. We spend a lot more than they do, as we did in the Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghan wars, yet could not…dislocate those communists/islamofascists. Russia has compulsory service and a true reserve of 25 million as such, which again is more than the entirety of the remnant Ukrainian population including the disabled/elderly/women/children.

Debating whether they have raised 250K vs. 450K more this year in manpower is one thing, but the loss ratio's heavily favor the Russians in any war of attrition, period, with Ukraine.

I'll believe Russia is 'winning' when I see it.

As I said, looks like a 'stalemate' to me. I don't think Russia is capable of grabbing much more ground than they already have, I'm skeptical Ukraine is capable of grabbing back much more ground the Russians have already dug into.

I do think this Ukraine conflict has been a very expensive adventure for Russia both in blood and relative cost, and obviously horrendous for Ukraine. I call B.S. on Russia is 'getting stronger'. That sounds like right-wing pro-Russia propaganda crap to my ears.

I think Russia's plan is to simply hold status quo until the West loses patience with funding, then try some sort of negotiation where they get to keep all the land they currently occupy with a cease-fire. Then regroup and attack again down the road in a few more years - yet another land grab - to at least also grab Odessa because they still want Ukraine's sole access to the Black Sea to further cripple them.

And Ukraine absolutely knows this, have already been attacked twice, knows a cease fire would simply have Russia attacking them again down the road...have zero trust for Putin...so the Ukes have zero interest in negotiating with the man.

It's a sh** situation.

Quote:

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I do think this Ukraine conflict has been a very expensive adventure for Russia both in blood and relative cost, and obviously horrendous for Ukraine. I call B.S. on Russia is 'getting stronger'. That sounds like right-wing pro-Russia propaganda crap to my ears.

I think Russia's plan is to simply hold status quo until the West loses patience with funding, then try some sort of negotiation where they get to keep all the land they currently occupy with a cease-fire. Then regroup and attack again down the road in a few more years - yet another land grab - to at least also grab Odessa because they still want Ukraine's sole access to the Black Sea to further cripple them.

---

Right-wing pro-Russia crap? Hahaha. Russia (and Soviets before) have always favored the American left (at least since Ted Kennedy's presidential campaign anyway), and Biden has continued to exempt his familia's Russian business partners from sanctions, 'strangely' including some who supplied armored vehicles for the initial invasion (this cycle)!

If you don't believe their military is larger/stronger today (with more drones/tanks/men/bullets etc. in theater and nearby) than in January 2022 then please show me the source of your opinion/wish casting, other than the usual 'well those guys are liars and it can't be true.' I put some data here (yet again) just a couple days ago, including various sources regarding 'what is victory' and who has lost/built what;

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3365034/replies/65620107

Some will easily fall for propaganda and stick to it emotionally, but some will look at the data/other opinions/source and remain skeptical that what they 'want' to believe might be wrong. Covid showed us that is more true today than ever.

Oh, and I think you're right, someone else will control western Ukraine in 5 or 10 years, whether it is Poland, Russia, China or anyone else I have no idea. Ukraine's population as a future has already now been sacrificed, the question is for what and when does it fall, to whom.

I can't recall a war being fought by soldier conscripts extradited from foreign refugee status, but that's what they are pitching now. It's very sad.

nortex97, here is how the internet works. Whatever opinion you have, you can Google and the internet will be full of information validating your already formed opinion. So...we can all easily Google up 'proof' that our position is the correct one.

For example, my skepticism that Russia's military is in great shape right now can be easily be self-validated with a quick Google of articles like this one from just a week ago:

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/russian-federation/what-west-still-gets-wrong-about-russias-military

Quote:

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What the West Still Gets Wrong About Russia's Military

Moscow's Overlooked Manpower Problem and How Washington Can Exploit It

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And I'm sure you can Google counter-articles.

So...well...we'll see. I personally think this Ukraine conflict still has years to go, and there will be plenty of time to debate the merits of it.

Of course we could just look at what's actually happening in the war. If Russia was stronger militarily they'd be advancing, not slowly losing ground in a near stalemate while Ukraine increases attacks in Crimea and deep within Russia.

Russia claims they're stronger of course. But their actions like using improvised and obsolete equipment, and inability to seize their objectives tells any rational observer that Russia is FOS, as usual.

Teslag said:

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LarryElder said:

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GAC06 said:

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Many said that Russia would roll over Ukraine, yet here we are.

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Many said the spring offensive would end the war yet here we are.

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I don't believe anyone said that. The hope was they would get to the Sea of Azov.

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What were they going to do once they reached the sea of Azov? That isn't an automatic victory finish line.

Pumpkinhead said:

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Are posters here debating whether Russia is getting stronger over time compared to USA or Ukraine as this drags on?

If USA…given the US's economy and population size was several times larger at the beginning of this conflict than Russia…Russia is spending much larger % of their national budget than U.S. is spending on this Special Military operation, Russia is losing an estimated 2-3 KIA a month while U.S. is losing 0, NATO is adding Finland and Sweden because of this…

Cynically…if how many Ukrainians die is irrelevant to the primary chess game of Cold War geo-politics….I am very skeptical Russia's comparative position to USA is getter better each day this drags on. If somebody wants to argue weaker but that actually makes them more dangerous, then ok. I can understand that angle of an argument. But stronger? The math doesn't seem like it could be anywhere close to ever adding up to make that case.

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I would say stronger because they and China are exploring ways to leave the US petrodollar. If they establish a way to do that with the consent of smaller nations we are screwed.

Teslag said:

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Especially when one considers that Russia is having to basically claw and scratch for everything they can just hold the ukes at bay at this point. How much will they have to spend and produce if they ever intend on an offensive? The US right now is spending about 3% of our defense budget on this. It's a pittance and the Russians are having to turn over the earth just to keep up. If it's an attrition battle the Russians are screwed.

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As always you ignore the numbers needed to fight the Russians. No matter how much we spend on Ukraine, there is no nation in the world offering troop support. So Ukraine numbers are finite. Also, RUS NEVER intend an offensive until the Ukraine is shattered. Is that clear? They will wait in their defensive positions until Ukraine has thrown every soldier at them because Ukraine will only get funding if they show progress.

And once Ukraine has been bled dry, they will sweep in and do what they want.

Except when they spent months and tens of thousands of soldiers capturing the ruins of Bakhmut. They really wanted that for some reason.

Then again, the force that was capable of that offensive later mutinied and is gone now.

GAC06 said:

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Except when they spent months and tens of thousands of soldiers capturing the ruins of Bakhmut. They really wanted that for some reason.

Then again, the force that was capable of that offensive later mutinied and is gone now.

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10,000 an active army of 250k is a drop in the bucket. Also, they are able to rotate soldiers out. Ukraine has no such ability. Fight or die for Ukraine. Fight, rest, return for Russia. Which army would you want to be a part of?

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/5/25/wagner-chief-says-20000-of-its-troops-killed-in-bakhmut-battle

Well, more like 20,000 according to Al Jazeera. Also, these troops "rotated" back to Russia as a mutiny, killing Russian soldiers and airmen in the process.

Anyway, we're getting off topic that Russia has been content to play defense. They were on offense until they had no choice but to defend.

10thYrSr said:

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Teslag said:

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LarryElder said:

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GAC06 said:

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Many said that Russia would roll over Ukraine, yet here we are.

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Many said the spring offensive would end the war yet here we are.

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I don't believe anyone said that. The hope was they would get to the Sea of Azov.

---

What were they going to do once they reached the sea of Azov? That isn't an automatic victory finish line.

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Cutting off the western portion of the lands Russia has annexed obviously wouldn't win the war but it would definitely create logistical challenges, especially if it was paired with damaging or destroying the bridge to Crimea. It's been a slow grind due to how reinforced the Russian defenses are and I'm not sure it's possible any time soon but if they are able to pull it off it would absolutely have a significant impact on the conflict.

But I'm with others and think this is basically a stalemate, most likely until Russia decides they are ready to settle for most of the territory they have now. Then what's left of Ukraine joins NATO and hopefully that ends all fighting over there for the foreseeable future. ETA: I do think Russia tries to hold out for the '24 election though and, somewhat ironically given the dems histrionics about Russia's supposed involvement in '16, probably puts actual resources behind publicly supporting Trump assuming he's the nominee.

Quote:

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And once Ukraine has been bled dry, they will sweep in and do what they want.

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With what?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/09/13/ukrainian-bombers-firing-western-cruise-missiles-have-destroyed-a-russian-submarine/amp/

Just in last 24 hours, Ukrainian bombers destroyed a Russia Kilo class subMarine docked at port in Crimea. 18 months into this thing and Russia still doesn't have control over the air space. Ukrainians can still launch bombers, get through their air defenses, and take out one of their subs plus another ship that was an amphibious landing craft.

This was apparently with some bombers built in 1970's that the Ukrainians retrofitted to carry some modern cruise missiles that the British and French gave them.

This article says that Kilo class submarine was a $300 million cost asset that burned up.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/russian-submarine-hit-missile-attack-crimea/#:~:text=Leading%20Britain's%20Conversation.-,Russia's%20%24300%20million%20Kilo%2Dclass%20submarine%20hit%20in%20attack%20on,as%20fireballs%20light%20up%20shipyard

The arctic sea route/shipping and LNG/oil revenues will continue to skyrocket;

Quote:

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Aleksey Chekunkov, the minister for the development of the Far East and the Arctic, revealed to RT on Wednesday that despite sanctions affecting shipbuilding projects, the Northern Sea Route (NSR) in Russia's exclusive economic zone within Arctic waters is experiencing an unprecedented surge in development.

Chekunkov highlighted that freight turnover through this vital transport corridor skyrocketed to 34 million tons per year in 2022, marking an eightfold increase since 2015. Furthermore, he anticipates that ongoing infrastructure initiatives will propel this turnover to surpass 80 million tons by 2024.

"The Northern Sea Route has already become a full-fledged international artery; it can already be considered a global transportation corridor. A large part of the global economy depends on it; all the countries that receive our liquefied natural gas, including those that are currently deemed 'unfriendly'… The intensity of shipping will increase many times over in the next seven years," the minister stated, speaking on the sidelines of the Eastern Economic Forum in Vladivostok.

Chekunkov emphasized that the corridor should not be considered as Russia's response to Western sanctions but is a global "route for transporting goods, which we are already producing or will soon start to produce."

"The floating liquefaction plant, the Arctic LNG 2, will produce 10 million tons of LNG per year. To transport this gas through the ice, we need the Northern Sea Route; we need ice-class LNG carriers, ports, navigation, and control systems. The Vostok Oil project is being launched, coal and ore production projects continue to expand all these ventures will produce 100 million tons by 2026 and 200 million tons per year by 2030-2031. That's what all this infrastructure we call the Northern Sea Route is for," he explained.

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Euro's not willing to participate in Zelensky's eager desertion/deportation charges to send 'happy to fight' Ukrainians back to his canon fodder machinery;

Quote:

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The Czech Republic announced on Wednesday that it would not send military-age men who arrived as refugees back to Ukraine to be conscripted. Germany, Austria and Hungary have already made similar declarations.

European conventions exclude extradition for charges such as desertion or draft evasion, Czech Justice Ministry spokesman Vladimir Repka told the outlet iDnes. However, he added that if Ukraine files individual extradition requests citing a specific criminal act they may have committed, Prague may give them more consideration.

Hungary has ruled out any extraditions outright.

"We are not investigating any Ukrainian refugees to determine if they have been called up for military service. Hungary will not extradite them to Ukraine," Deputy Prime Minister Zsolt Semjn told the outlet ATV on Wednesday. "All refugees from Ukraine are safe in Hungary."

German officials who spoke to state broadcaster Deutsche Welle earlier this week said that Berlin did not intend to send draft-eligible refugees back, since desertion and draft evasion are not crimes under German law. There are over 123,000 Ukrainian men of military age who are in Germany as refugees, according to official estimates.

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It does sound like the Sevastopol attack was some sort of weapon (ATACMS?) the Ukrainians hadn't used previously. A damaged sub and a destroyed landing ship isn't a huge accomplishment but it's good PR for them.

Quote:

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1. Zaporozhye Direction:
The situation has not changed fundamentally over the past day.

The frontline at #Pyatikhatki, #Rabotino and #Verbovoye has not changed. The enemy attacks were less intense than last week.

The enemy was unable to break through between #Rabotino and #Verbovoye. There was a pulling in of reserves from other directions and rotation of shattered brigades. The enemy still has time for a couple of attempts to break through, although the thaw is inexorably approaching.

2. Vremyevka Ledge:
The enemy has significantly reduced the pressure, as a result of which the frontline remains stable without significant changes at #Priyutnoye, #Staromayorskoye, #Urozhaynoye, #Novodonetskoye and #Novomayorskoye. The enemy failed to break through quickly to the east of #Staromlynovka.

3. Donetsk Direction:
The attacks of the RF Armed Forces north and south of #Maryinka have intensified. The enemy officially admits that the AFU has problems in these areas, but so far there has been no significant progress.
In the area of #Avdeyevka, fighting continues north of #Opytnoye and in the vicinity of #Krasnogorovka.
The enemy is preparing for localised attacking actions.

4. Artyomovsk:
The swings continue in the area of #Kleshcheyevka and #Andreevka, where the ruins of the settlements are changing hands.

After the AFU gained a foothold in the south of #Kleshcheyevka and tried to move towards the northern part of the settlement, our troops counterattacked and cleared part of the settlement from the enemy. As of the evening the fighting continues.

Also, the enemy was again partially squeezed out of the destroyed #Andreyevka. The main positions of the RF Armed Forces are behind the railway line.

5. Svatovo:
In this direction, our troops continued to press the enemy in the direction of #Oskol and repelled enemy counterattacks in the forest area west of #Kremennaya. There are no significant changes here yet.

6. Kupyansk:
Our troops continue to press in the area of #Sinkovka (the village is still not occupied), #Petropavlovka and in the direction of #Kislovka. No significant advances yet.

---

Another sitrep take:

Military expert Boris Rozhin ( @colonelcassad ) on the main points during the special military operation of the Russian Federation on the territory of the former Ukraine per day by 21.23 Moscow time on September 13, 2023, especially for the TG Voenkor Kotenok channel…

— -- GEROMAN -- time will tell - 👀 -- (@GeromanAT) September 14, 2023

Filmed FPV hits now officially beat August's tally, in only 13 days. pic.twitter.com/osELxoYwmN

— Dr.Snekotron (@snekotron) September 14, 2023

NYT article is behind a pay wall but interesting excerpt cited here:

"Russia has managed to overcome sanctions and export controls imposed by the West to expand its missile production beyond prewar levels, according to U.S., European and Ukrainian officials,"https://t.co/ionyPtS2AF

— Rob Lee (@RALee85) September 13, 2023

(The artillery and missile production are the main points of interest as again both sides have plenty of armor to toss about).

200 a year is a little different than 100 per month.

New build. Not refurbs.

Well they'll need to pump those numbers up to make up for losing 2300 (or more) in 19 months. How many obsolete hulks do they have out in Siberia?

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html?m=1