Teslag said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

I've never met someone that works for the government that was tough. Not saying they aren't out there. Never met one though. Something to consider.

---

There's a drill sergeant unit in Grand Prairie and I've got several friends over there. I'll introduce you any time you like provided you start off the introduction with how weak they are. Many of them are former 11B's with CIB's so it should go swimmingly,

---

Are they actually men or are they trans men?

Joes said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Quote:

---

Definitely China, for one, and yeah, I think we'd have trouble against Russia.

---

What military experience does China have in the past 50 years? What have you seen from them?

---

What have you seen from us????? The last thing I saw was our military looking like the Keystone Cops leaving Afghanistan in a way that a 9 year old Risk player wouldn't do.

---

We don't nation build worth a ***** But we tear down nations with ease, see Iraq with shock and awe. Had we laid waste with no intent to rebuild there would be nothing left.

Now again, what have you seen from China?

Joes said:

---

Teslag said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

I've never met someone that works for the government that was tough. Not saying they aren't out there. Never met one though. Something to consider.

---

There's a drill sergeant unit in Grand Prairie and I've got several friends over there. I'll introduce you any time you like provided you start off the introduction with how weak they are. Many of them are former 11B's with CIB's so it should go swimmingly,

---

Are they actually men or are they trans men?

---

Man enough to serve.

Teslag said:

---

Quote:

---

I still think by far the bigger problem is that you're talking about that stuff in a vacuum, not applied in the real world. In a real scenario we'd apply whatever forces we could get over there very piecemeal

---

Ludicrous.

I'm a CW4 logistics officer whose primary responsibility is rapid deployment and readiness of USARC assets in precisely the scenario you are talking about. For two years I was heavily involved in our Ready Force X initiative to respond to any near peer contact within 72 hours and fully mobilization of supply lines within 30 days. I assure you we are more than ready for any situation you describe.

---

And I respect that and I take your word for it. You're suggesting we could, I'm telling you we wouldn't, because that's not how our government operates.

Besides, we spent six months preparing for Desert Storm when we were in far better shape, with absolutely no interference at all, moving everything over there against a much less powerful force. A completely static target.

I'm telling you, even one large troop transport goes down on the way across the Pacific, or one carrier goes down, or one airbase is destroyed, or one American city is hit, and we're done. We have no stomach for that.

Teslag said:

---

Joes said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Quote:

---

Definitely China, for one, and yeah, I think we'd have trouble against Russia.

---

What military experience does China have in the past 50 years? What have you seen from them?

---

What have you seen from us????? The last thing I saw was our military looking like the Keystone Cops leaving Afghanistan in a way that a 9 year old Risk player wouldn't do.

---

We don't nation build worth a ***** But we tear down nations with ease, see Iraq with shock and awe. Had we laid waste with no intent to rebuild there would be nothing left.

Now again, what have you seen from China?

---

Just what they have on paper, which again, is all I'm seeing from us, too. We have nice looking planes. I also haven't seen the Chinese military donate a whole army's worth of equipment to the enemy like we have. That was some comical ***** I mean that's like scoring against your own team.

Look, I mean hell, I'm GLAD you guys have confidence, I'd really be worried if even the guys serving said "Oh yeah, we're ****ed if anything happens." But you don't have to look very hard to find article after article from defense experts, for whatever that's worth, saying the same things I'm saying. That there are many many reasons to be concerned. And there are countless cases in history where things didn't go anywhere near what was expected. While we have Biden and Milley at the top and until we can demonstrate we can leave an airbase better than the Three Stooges I'll assume that my cub scout troop would do just fine.

And I'm telling you the people at the top don't matter near as much as the people at lower middle. We have a plethora of combat hardened E6's to E9's in combat arms being led by plenty of O3 to O6's with the same. Behind then are a legion of medical, signal, and logistics personnel with multiple deployments to draw from. There is no nation on earth that can match us there with experience, surely not the ****ing Chinese that have never seen *****

Hey Joes

And I still haven't gotten an answer why 29 Nato countries, plus Ukraine, can't stop Russia without hundreds of billions of dollars of our stuff.

Quote:

---

Besides, we spent six months preparing for Desert Storm when we were in far better shape

---

Better shape then? Lol

Joes said:

---

And I still haven't gotten an answer why 29 Nato countries, plus Ukraine, can't stop Russia without hundreds of billions of dollars of our stuff.

---

Ukriane did by themselves with their stuff

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Hey Joes

---

Honestly, I'm sorry, I'm purely talking about it in a macro view. And in fact my intention is not to place any of the criticism on any of those serving but on the systems they're in. Our government sucks, the military is part of that.

No one I ever knew growing up was more patriotic or pro military than me, my current low opinion is partially just a reflection of my opinion of the state of the country in general. It's a laughable mess.

The military means a lot to me. Just to name a random few one of my uncles was a B 24 pilot in the Pacific, my maternal grandfather was a B29 navigator-bombardier and I have all his medals, he flew missions all over from Formosa to China and Indonesia to Japan itself. I've got a labeled bomb pin from each mission. I have a letter to my grandmother from my great uncle from June 1918 in the trenches in France, one of my ancestors was a cavalry officer in Lee's Army and another, my mom's great grandfather, was Mathew Ector, a Brigadier General of the Texas cavalry that Ector County is named after. There are others. So yeah, I'm very well aware of and appreciative of those who serve and especially of veterans.

And I think we're gonna have a rude awakening if it comes to it. I really hope I'm wrong.

Thank you for their service. I have relatives that served but that's not relevant here. The only country that gives me pause is China, and only because we'd have to fight on their turf in any conceivable conflict. Oh, and your Cub Scout troop, of course. They sound scary.

Don't let the modern news looking for clicks and reactions incite you to doubt the military rank and file. We definitely have new issues, but bar none most are still good salt of the earth men and women. They are highly trained, skilled, and dedicated. They are very good at what they do. I assure you it's not a 24/7 drag show with daily DEI trainings.

Don't let the media fool you. We are just as lethal as ever.

GAC06 said:

---

Thank you for their service. I have relatives that served but that's not relevant here. The only country that gives me pause is China, and only because we'd have to fight on their turf in any conceivable conflict. Oh, and your Cub Scout troop, of course. They sound scary.

---

I will say that fighting China on their turf would be a tall order. But playing defense against them would be extremely favorable.

Teslag said:

---

Joes said:

---

And I still haven't gotten an answer why 29 Nato countries, plus Ukraine, can't stop Russia without hundreds of billions of dollars of our stuff.

---

Ukriane did by themselves with their stuff

---

Ok, so the only conclusion I can come to then is you're a member of the Biden crime family, because there's no other rational reason to support this nonsense. I mean obviously I'm joking but damn...

Teslag said:

---

Don't let the modern news looking for clicks and reactions incite you to doubt the military rank and file. We definitely have new issues, but bar none most are still good salt of the earth men and women. They are highly trained, skilled, and dedicated. They are very good at what they do. I assure you it's not a 24/7 drag show with daily DEI trainings.

Don't let the media fool you. We are just as lethal as ever.

---

I sincerely hope you're right.

The Russia thing is just beyond insane. There is no good answer.

"Hahahaha! Look what a joke Russia is. And oh by the way, 30 of our allies in Europe need massive amounts of our help or else."

There's no way to reconcile that. It's dumb. Pick one.

Joes said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Joes said:

---

And I still haven't gotten an answer why 29 Nato countries, plus Ukraine, can't stop Russia without hundreds of billions of dollars of our stuff.

---

Ukriane did by themselves with their stuff

---

Ok, so the only conclusion I can come to then is you're a member of the Biden crime family, because there's no other rational reason to support this nonsense. I mean obviously I'm joking but damn...

---

There's no reason to severely hamper one of our main enemies and solidify our influence to Eastern Europe? With no loss of American lives all for pennies on the dollar?

Teslag said:

---

Quote:

---

Besides, we spent six months preparing for Desert Storm when we were in far better shape

---

Better shape then? Lol

---

Well yeah in relative terms to everyone else, technology is always going to improve for everyone. But FAR better shape at the end of the Reagan Bush buildup in every single other way that matters from numbers to morale to political leadership to focus (it wasn't anything like the social experiment playground that it is now, and it had been single mindedly focused on a very real large-scale threat). The only other time it had been that good or better was at the end of WW2.

Tech always improves so I guess if you want to measure it by that standard then Mexico's current army would wipe out Napoleon's easily. But you take that military in 1991 and this current one exactly as they are/were in every single way but with equal tech and yeah, it wipes this one out in practically a shutout. Even easier than my scout troop would.

We had a significant lack of experience in 1990. Most Vietnam vets had long since left the service and none in the battalion and company levels. There were some from Grenada and that's it. Certainly not for armor. And not nearly to the degree we have now.

Experienced veterans matters in war, and in 1990 we were miles apart from where we are today.

Teslag said:

---

Joes said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Joes said:

---

And I still haven't gotten an answer why 29 Nato countries, plus Ukraine, can't stop Russia without hundreds of billions of dollars of our stuff.

---

Ukriane did by themselves with their stuff

---

Ok, so the only conclusion I can come to then is you're a member of the Biden crime family, because there's no other rational reason to support this nonsense. I mean obviously I'm joking but damn...

---

There's no reason to severely hamper one of our main enemies and solidify our influence to Eastern Europe? With no loss of American lives all for pennies on the dollar?

---

You're right, I agree, by all means, let Europe annihilate them, it obviously should be no problem.

Teslag said:

---

We had a significant lack of experience in 1990. Most Vietnam vets had long since left the service and none in the battalion and company levels. There were some from Grenada and that's it. Certainly not for armor. And not nearly to the degree we have now.

Experienced veterans matters in war, and in 1990 we were miles apart from where we are today.

---

Alright well, like I said, I obviously very much hope I'm wrong about all this or even better that we never have to get an answer. Regardless I wish you the very best, sincerely and I appreciate what you're doing.

I hope it's clear by now that I'm not coming at this from a leftist "I hate the military and want to put it down" point of view. It's just the opposite. More like "What the **** have they done to our beloved military that I used to respect so much?"

But again, I hope that you agree we've been sparring aggressively but mostly good naturedly. This is very important stuff, but I do respect your opinion and I hope I'm wrong about our readiness and capabilities.

You're gonna have a much harder time convincing me on Russia though. I hated the USSR more than the devil himself growing up, and Putin is every bit the murderous skidmark that most say he is, but I don't have a hardon for killing Russians like everyone seems to on the war thread at this point and even though I'd love to see them pushed back it's absurd that we babysit Europe like we do. Let them do it. It's embarrassing to be their free security. Let them grow up and police their own neighborhood. Russia is obviously no threat to us anymore as I'm sure you'd agree.

If it helps any I took a very risky short piss not far from outside Putin's office building in 2018, haha!

What the poster you have been discussing with will not admit to is that whilst our military did see an increase in resources, more battlefield experience, more technology, newer equipment from 1999 until oughts, it has since peaked and now suffers from low morale, poor recruitment, and trannies and woke teat suckers at the higher levels.

Comparing military from 2006 to now is not fair to those who worked so hard in the 1990s and 2000's to restore us to being anywhere close to a fighting force. Obama utterly and systematically destroyed all of that progress.

fka ftc said:

---

What the poster you have been discussing with will not admit to is that whilst our military did see an increase in resources, more battlefield experience, more technology, newer equipment from 1999 until oughts, it has since peaked and now suffers from low morale, poor recruitment, and trannies and woke teat suckers at the higher levels.

Comparing military from 2006 to now is not fair to those who worked so hard in the 1990s and 2000's to restore us to being anywhere close to a fighting force. Obama utterly and systematically destroyed all of that progress.

---

Well, I've already pretty much made all my points so I don't need to redo them but yeah, that was at least my intention when I compared our earlier military. Obviously they didn't have our current tech but they sure inspired a lot more confidence in me. And everyone else's tech has gone up too. Of course I don't claim to know specifics but seeing how everything else in general has gone with us and China over many years now I'd bet they've caught up a lot more than we realize. There's probably not much they haven't had a chance to get from us.

I'm afraid it's going to be like when Churchill and Truman thought they were going to impress and surprise Stalin about having the atomic bomb and they were shocked when he essentially casually nodded and said "Yeah, I know.."

I'm going to bed but let me just say this, if our current military can still kick ass then that's awesome and genuinely comforting, but to those of you in the service I can tell you that from the outside perspective the optics (I hate that damn word but I'm tired and can't think of another one off the top of my head) of the situation are absolutely dreadful. And I can't help but think that our potential adversaries see it even more clearly than I.

fka ftc said:

---

What the poster you have been discussing with will not admit to is that whilst our military did see an increase in resources, more battlefield experience, more technology, newer equipment from 1999 until oughts, it has since peaked and now suffers from low morale, poor recruitment, and trannies and woke teat suckers at the higher levels.

Comparing military from 2006 to now is not fair to those who worked so hard in the 1990s and 2000's to restore us to being anywhere close to a fighting force. Obama utterly and systematically destroyed all of that progress.

---

Most of what you claim is simply not accurate. Our combat arms recruiting is fine and morale is certainly not in the gutter by any means. We are paid well, have great benefits, and have ample opportunity for training and development. We have plenty of equipment to do our job and funding is rarely an issue.

GAC06 said:

---

Joes said:

---

Nothing. But I have a brain and eyes.

Do you ever question Biden? How many years have you been president?

---

Shocker. I'll watch out for your cub scouts.

---

Don't worry...they're coming after the Army, not the Marines...

GAC06 said:

---

Imagine that ludicrous traffic jam with thousands of precision guided weapons raining down on it.

---

I work with 2 former Apache pilots and when they saw those pics they started salivating...

Yes.



https://x.com/davidsacks/status/1690547251192676353

Quote:

---

THE FORKS IN THE ROAD

In this video from his podcast, @AMercouris provides an excellent historical summary of the choices that the U.S. faced in the lead-up to the Ukraine War that would have averted the current disaster:

In 2004, the US could have stayed out of Ukrainian affairs altogether, but instead it chose to support a color revolution.

In 2008, the US could have listened to then-ambassador, now-CIA director Bill Burns' advice not to expand NATO to Ukraine because it would cross the brightest of all redlines for the entire Russian leadership. But instead the US issued the Bucharest declaration that Ukraine would join NATO.

In 2013, the US and its European allies could have compromised on the EU accession agreement to address Russian concerns. But instead they maintained that they would not change even a punctuation mark.

In 2014, the US could have supported a peaceful transition of power in Ukraine. But instead it backed the Maidan coup against a democratically-elected government.

In 2015-2022, the US could have supported peaceful attempts, via the Minsk agreements, to resolve the protests by ethnic Russians that broke out in reaction to the coup. But instead it supported Kiev's attempts to violently suppress and shell the Donbas.

In 2021-2022, the US could have negotiated over the draft Russian agreements which principally sought a written guarantee that Ukraine would not join NATO. But instead it insisted that it would never compromise over that policy.

In 2022, after the war broke out, the US could have supported the peace process in Belarus and Istanbul, but instead it sabotaged those agreements.

And now, in the wake of a failing counteroffensive, the US could seek to enter into serious negotiations with the Russians, but instead it's demanding that the slaughter continue.

At every fork in the road, the US foreign policy elite have chosen the path of confrontation and conflict as opposed to compromise and peace.

---

Accurate.

Biden's Russian business partners exempted again from Biden's Russian sanctions.

https://nypost.com/2023/08/11/hunter-bidens-russian-business-associates-spared-by-us-sanctions-again/

Quote:

---

Two Russian billionaires who sought out US real estate investments with first son Hunter Biden were spared in a fresh round of sanctions announced Friday in response to the Kremlin's invasion of Ukraine.

Former Moscow first lady Yelena Baturina, who allegedly dined with then-Vice President Biden in 2014 and 2015, and fellow oligarch Vladimir Yevtushenkov, who arranged at least two meetings with Hunter Biden during his dad's vice presidency, again avoided US sanctions.

Baturina is a construction and real estate magnate. Yevtushenkov until recently held majority control of a conglomerate that included Russian military contractors, a bank and the country's largest cellphone provider.

---

I love when people use words like "expand NATO" in regards to a defensive pact.

nortex97 said:

---

Yes.



https://x.com/davidsacks/status/1690547251192676353

Quote:

---

THE FORKS IN THE ROAD

In this video from his podcast, @AMercouris provides an excellent historical summary of the choices that the U.S. faced in the lead-up to the Ukraine War that would have averted the current disaster:

In 2004, the US could have stayed out of Ukrainian affairs altogether, but instead it chose to support a color revolution.

In 2008, the US could have listened to then-ambassador, now-CIA director Bill Burns' advice not to expand NATO to Ukraine because it would cross the brightest of all redlines for the entire Russian leadership. But instead the US issued the Bucharest declaration that Ukraine would join NATO.

In 2013, the US and its European allies could have compromised on the EU accession agreement to address Russian concerns. But instead they maintained that they would not change even a punctuation mark.

In 2014, the US could have supported a peaceful transition of power in Ukraine. But instead it backed the Maidan coup against a democratically-elected government.

In 2015-2022, the US could have supported peaceful attempts, via the Minsk agreements, to resolve the protests by ethnic Russians that broke out in reaction to the coup. But instead it supported Kiev's attempts to violently suppress and shell the Donbas.

In 2021-2022, the US could have negotiated over the draft Russian agreements which principally sought a written guarantee that Ukraine would not join NATO. But instead it insisted that it would never compromise over that policy.

In 2022, after the war broke out, the US could have supported the peace process in Belarus and Istanbul, but instead it sabotaged those agreements.

And now, in the wake of a failing counteroffensive, the US could seek to enter into serious negotiations with the Russians, but instead it's demanding that the slaughter continue.

At every fork in the road, the US foreign policy elite have chosen the path of confrontation and conflict as opposed to compromise and peace.

---

Accurate.

---

And Russia could have not invaded a sovereign nation rendering every point you made moot.

The second Russia did that in a land grab attempt nothing else mattered and this war was 100% on the Russian federation

Quote:

---

And now, in the wake of a failing counteroffensive, the US could seek to enter into serious negotiations with the Russians, but instead it's demanding that the slaughter continue.

---

And this is laughable. It's not the job of the US to broker peace when the Russians have brought nothing to the table in that regard. I'm still amazed at how high you raise the bar for the US but hand wave any and all things the Russians do.

Teslag said:

---

I love when people use words like "expand NATO" in regards to a defensive pact.

---

It's as if they think there's a recruiting season where NATO goes out to countries to try and convince them that the NATO NIL deal is better than the BRICs NIL deal...

https://x.com/mylordbebo/status/1690741839949656064

https://t.co/OISmLREE79

— Lord Bebo (@MyLordBebo) August 13, 2023

Sad.

https://carnegieendowment.org/politika/88916#:~:text=When%20Russia%20invaded%20Ukraine%2C%20the,strident%20as%20the%20war%20progressed.

https://www.rferl.org/amp/russia-patriarch-kirill-dying-ukraine-sins/32052380.html

Weird the ROC would be viewed as an arm of the Kremlin