All of it is wrong? So the Russians haven't suffered heavy losses to the mentioned assets?

nortex97 said:

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GAC06 said:

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How is Russia refreshing their military? Their most modern stuff like Su-34's, Ka-52's and most modern tanks have suffered heavy losses. Their vaunted Kinzhal missile has proven ineffective against our our air defense. They are largely resorting to pulling obsolete equipment out of storage.

I'd argue that failing to counter their aggression would only embolden them for future land grabs, boost their prestige and influence in Africa and elsewhere, and signal to China that we don't have the resolve to counter them either. Doing it for a small fraction of our yearly defense budget is quite a bargain.

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All of this is inaccurate.

There's zero reason to think the CCP leadership is upset with our actions in Ukraine, or anyone else's.

African countries care even less about who controls Ukraine than I do, imho, to boot.

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Heck for once I may agree with the aviation expert.

Our failure to counter the aggression (to be more particular, our failure to PREVENT the aggression) has emboldened Putin to pursue additional territories.

The Africa part is much more complicated. Warlords and chieftains in Africa care about money. They care about power too but really only as it relates to money. They will sell themselves to the highest bidder whether it be China, Brazil, US, Rooskies, Indians, etc. They will pillage their resources and sell the lessers in their society for forced sex and forced labor. Essentially nothing has changed there in hundreds of years. Never will unless true colonial rule is established / reestablished.

China has seen all it needs to in order to understand they have a total green light for Taiwan. They also have a dedicated supply of black gold from Russia along with an ample supply of refined nuclear materials from Russia's stockpile.

For a "small fraction of our yearly defense budget" we have rewound America's provenance on the world stage by 80+ years.

Teslag said:

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LarryElder said:

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Teslag said:

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LarryElder said:

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Teslag said:

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LarryElder said:

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Wait I thought UKE was taking miles of land back each day ? Wha happen ?

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No one has made this claim

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False you have said UKE had been making gains everyday not gonna go back and find the posts

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They have. But you added "miles each day" for embellishment.

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Where are the gains ?

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In the south where Russians lines are thinner. LiveUA has a great map to track it.

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so how far have they gotten?

Ten miles into former Russian held territory along to spots in the front. They are now pushing into third line defenses, capturing Urozhaine, several river crossings, and severing even more logistical lines with more and more falling under Ukrainian artillery range each day.

It's slow and methodical. And all done without the realistic chance of any significant Russian counter offensive threat in the south. Why push hard if the Russians can a only defend and not push back?

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China has seen all it needs to in order to understand they have a total green light for Taiwan. They also have a dedicated supply of black gold from Russia along with an ample supply of refined nuclear materials from Russia's stockpile.

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Disagree here. China has seen that NATO's handoff weapons are far superior to a lot of things on their side. And what's used in Taiwan won't be hand me downs. It won't be fielded Ukrainians. But instead will be our best manned by us.

Teslag said:

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China has seen all it needs to in order to understand they have a total green light for Taiwan. They also have a dedicated supply of black gold from Russia along with an ample supply of refined nuclear materials from Russia's stockpile.

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Disagree here. China has seen that NATO's handoff weapons are far superior to a lot of things on their side. And what's used in Taiwan won't be hand me downs. It won't be fielded Ukrainians. But instead will be our best manned by us.

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That's funny. Kicking my Saturday evening off with a good laugh.

NATO will show them poorly equipped Chinamen just who the boss is!

Ignoring that China has been stealing all of our secrets and designs for decades, has an actual space program all their own, has billions of potential soldiers to throw at a small island nation.

And we are going to send troops to Taiwan? With a POTUS who won't even recognize Taiwan as its own country and who is totally owned by way of the Biden Oriental Trading Co?

God that's funny.

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billions of potential soldiers to throw at a small island nation.

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How do they get them there? Most would find the bottom of the sea.

I dunno what Chinese weapons/tactics have been employed or were in the crude attempt to march to Kiev initially in 2022, or since, but the drone warfare since has no doubt proven of interest to all parties. I doubt strongly the Chinese intend to use T-62/72's etc. to take Taiwan, but whatever.

Russia is either horribly incompetent/stupid, or a terror/threat to all of Europe/humanity. I don't understand how they can be both, while also business partners with our chief executive, but I admit to lacking the depth of understanding some have.

Chin up buttercup, I'm not "woke" enough either.

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Chin up buttercup, I'm not "woke" enough either.

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Same. I feel bipolar reading about how Putin and Russia are the greatest threat in the history of the universe then in the same post they are disregarded as "orcs" too busy digging trenches by hand, walking from Russia to Kiev and fighting off the enemy with no ammo, broken equipment and nothing but empty vodka bottles to fight with.

I think it's been clearly put forth that Russia is militarily inept while also skillful at foreign agency

Robert F Kennedy blasts the war...

They aren't sure if the bridge was destroyed or not?

Teslag said:

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I think it's been clearly put forth that Russia is militarily inept while also skillful at foreign agency

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Alternatively, just don't see why we should have any confidence that our own military is any good except that we just throw a lot of money at it. We do that with everything else in government too and most of it sucks, like education.

I've said this before but it reminds me so much of this scenario, which I've seen play out countless times.

Team A plays Team B in week 3:

Fan of Team A, which is idle, watching Team B on opening weekend: "Haha!! They've fumbled twice already and their offensive line sucks. We're gonna destroy them!!! We've got more talent and better coaching!! They're so overrated!!!"

Week 2: Team A loses at home to a directional school and that same fan is saying "We don't have a chance next week, we're not gonna win another game if we play like that, we always get hyped for nothing."

It's easy to brag when you haven't played.

I can see our military going out against a real country and getting punched in the face. We haven't even tried to fight anyone who is remotely a peer in 80 years and our whole focus during that time has been to try to make the enemy like us. We have the killer instinct of Elmo, our politicians in charge are the most worthless we've ever had, and as soon as we hit 100 casualties the American public is going to demand we stop fighting. None of that will be overcome by our high-tech night vision or some other bull*****

From what I see my 1977 cub scout troop would beat the **** out of our army and take its milk money.

What did you do in the military?

Nothing. But I have a brain and eyes.

Do you ever question Biden? How many years have you been president?

These days, when kids enlist they buy Teslas instead of Dodge Chargers. Paper tiger.

Joes said:

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Nothing. But I have a brain and eyes.

Do you ever question Biden? How many years have you been president?

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Shocker. I'll watch out for your cub scouts.

GAC06 said:

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Joes said:

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Nothing. But I have a brain and eyes.

Do you ever question Biden? How many years have you been president?

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Shocker. I'll watch out for your cub scouts.

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That's a completely invalid argument and you know it, that unless you've done the thing in question your opinion doesn't matter. Again, I don't need to have been president to know Biden sucks. And watching a former player in pregame give his game prediction is never any better than my own. In fact I think a good case could be made that often people might be too close to a topic have any perspective or objectivity.

****, Colonel McGregor has infinitely more military experience than me, do you respect his opinions because he served? Of course not.

I don't claim to know we'd get our butts beat, because no can know that and I hope we don't find out, but it would not surprise me in the least. I'm not an idiot, I've studied military history my whole life and I come from a family with a strong military history. I have no interest in insulting anyone individually serving and in fact most of my arguments are not specifically about military capability. But it doesn't operate in a vacuum. It never does. And in context I think we'd be in serious trouble. I'm sure you know France had more and better tanks than Germany in 1940 too, how'd that go?

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I can see our military going out against a real country and getting punched in the face.

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Who are these "real" countries? The second most powerful was supposed to be Russia and they can't even push on Ukraine against our hand me down weapons and a piece mealed force with limited training.

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I'm sure you know France had more and better tanks than Germany in 1940 too, how'd that go?

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But we don't just have more and better tanks. We have more and better everything. In addition, our logistical ability with supply in forward deployed areas is unequaled. And then of course our NCO corps across the services is another. We are simply an unrivaled force in the world. And the Ukraine conflict has been eye opening in that regard.

Teslag said:

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I can see our military going out against a real country and getting punched in the face.

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Who are these "real" countries? The second most powerful was supposed to be Russia and they can't even push on Ukraine against our hand me down weapons and a piece mealed force with limited training.

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Definitely China, for one, and yeah, I think we'd have trouble against Russia.

Why do you guys keep laughing about how sucky Russia is while at the same time keep arguing that Ukraine, Great Britain, Germany, Poland, Greece, Croatia, France, Italy, Norway, Denmark, Czech Republic, Belgium, Holland, Sweden, Austria, Slovenia, Portugal, Hungary and the rest of Europe combined can't be expected to hold them without hundreds of billions of dollars of American equipment?

One of those two arguments has to give, dramatically.

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From what I see my 1977 cub scout troop would beat the **** out of our army and take its milk money.

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From the dudes I saw with the 82nd and 5th group while I was in Syria I think you'd regret saying that to any of them.

I assure you our combat arms folks are just as nasty and capable as they've always been. Many of the NCO's in these units have been sharpened by multiple high intensity deployments in the late 2000's / early 2010's

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Definitely China, for one, and yeah, I think we'd have trouble against Russia.

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What military experience does China have in the past 50 years? What have you seen from them?

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Why do you guys keep laughing about how sucky Russia is while at the same time keep arguing that Ukraine, Great Britain, Germany, Poland, Greece, Croatia, France, Italy, Norway, Denmark, Czech Republic, Belgium, Holland, Sweden, Austria, Slovenia, Portugal, Hungary and the rest of Europe combined can't be expected to hold them without hundreds of billions of dollars of American equipment?

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Because it's mostly hand me down export versions of weapons without NATO personnel?

And let's not forget, Russia got stone cold stopped before we even started sending massive aid packages. It was only after Ukraine started seriously impeding them that we even got involved. Russia couldn't even roll Ukraine without us and our weapons.

I've never met someone that works for the government that was tough. Not saying they aren't out there. Never met one though. Something to consider.

Imagine that ludicrous traffic jam with thousands of precision guided weapons raining down on it.

Teslag said:

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I'm sure you know France had more and better tanks than Germany in 1940 too, how'd that go?

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But we don't just have more and better tanks. We have more and better everything. In addition, our logistical ability with supply in forward deployed areas is unequaled. And then of course our NCO corps across the services is another. We are simply an unrivaled force in the world. And the Ukraine conflict has been eye opening in that regard.

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I still think by far the bigger problem is that you're talking about that stuff in a vacuum, not applied in the real world. In a real scenario we'd apply whatever forces we could get over there very piecemeal, with the politicians holding both hands behind their backs as they always do, and we'd be obsessed with "winning hearts and minds", and as soon as we had any sort of "real war" casualties there would be riots outside the White House and so much political pressure to stop that we would quickly.

We had 2400 dead in Afghanistan over twenty years and people harp out of all proportion on the loss of life, what do you think would happen when a single carrier goes down with 6000, or we lose 2000 dead and wounded in a single day of ground combat? I don't believe for a single second the U.S or almost any country in the west has any stomach for real war. So again, I'm sure the military guys can tell me about how great our targeting systems are on an updated F 15 or whatever, but I just don't think that would matter in the long run.

On a board game where you have our equipment as pieces and there is no morale, politics, or cultural rot, then yeah, maybe we would clean up. Maybe. But that's not the real world.

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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I've never met someone that works for the government that was tough. Not saying they aren't out there. Never met one though. Something to consider.

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There's a drill sergeant unit in Grand Prairie and I've got several friends over there. I'll introduce you any time you like provided you start off the introduction with how weak they are. Many of them are former 11B's with CIB's so it should go swimmingly,

Teslag said:

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Why do you guys keep laughing about how sucky Russia is while at the same time keep arguing that Ukraine, Great Britain, Germany, Poland, Greece, Croatia, France, Italy, Norway, Denmark, Czech Republic, Belgium, Holland, Sweden, Austria, Slovenia, Portugal, Hungary and the rest of Europe combined can't be expected to hold them without hundreds of billions of dollars of American equipment?

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Because it's mostly hand me down export versions of weapons without NATO personnel?

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Why do we have to give anything??? There are 29 European countries in NATO, all of them combined can't fight Russia without our stuff?

Teslag said:

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Definitely China, for one, and yeah, I think we'd have trouble against Russia.

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What military experience does China have in the past 50 years? What have you seen from them?

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What have you seen from us????? The last thing I saw was our military looking like the Keystone Cops leaving Afghanistan in a way that a 9 year old Risk player wouldn't do.

I'm very afraid of your very tough friends that I've never met. Please don't bring the tough guy shtick
back again.

Teslag said:

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And let's not forget, Russia got stone cold stopped before we even started sending massive aid packages. It was only after Ukraine started seriously impeding them that we even got involved. Russia couldn't even roll Ukraine without us and our weapons.

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Then what in the ever-living **** did we do that for???

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I still think by far the bigger problem is that you're talking about that stuff in a vacuum, not applied in the real world. In a real scenario we'd apply whatever forces we could get over there very piecemeal

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Ludicrous.

I'm a CW4 logistics officer whose primary responsibility is rapid deployment and readiness of USARC assets in precisely the scenario you are talking about. For two years I was heavily involved in our Ready Force X initiative to respond to any near peer contact within 72 hours and fully mobilization of supply lines within 30 days. I assure you we are more than ready for any situation you describe.

I am not special or a killer or a bad ass or any of that ***** But I'm very very good at getting those men what they need when they need it to do what they do.