Russia/Ukraine from Another Perspective (Relaunch Part Deux)

526,136 Views | 9433 Replies | Last: 1 day ago by PlaneCrashGuy
Ag with kids
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Ags4DaWin said:

Teslag said:

Can you cite the annexation dates for Iraqi regions as the 51st plus state(s)?

I'm having difficulty finding it.

I like how you moved the goalposts. You couldn't win the argument so you shift the narrative. Fine. I will play along.


America's version of annexation is cherry picking the new regime amd installing permanent military bases. America is imperialistic just like Russia, just less overt with annexation.
Well, Russia annexed Crimea when they invaded in 2014. The US annexed...umm...nothing when they first went into Iraq. Of course, Iraq had just annexed Kuwait...

Seems like the US isn't really good a that annexation game...just good at ****ing it up for others when they do it...
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GinMan said:


Ok...

White Lizzo.

I don't care WHO you are...that's funny right there.
Ag with kids
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

I think Chris has lost some weight.
Trump's been eating his lunch...
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10thYrSr said:

GAC06 said:

Russia did not have legitimate national security concerns from NATO or Ukraine.

Russia has repeatedly invaded its neighbors, in this case in an attempt to seize and annex a sovereign nation. Russia's aggression is what creates the need for NATO and the desire for Russia's formerly subjugated states to seek NATO's protection.

It has absolutely nothing to do with Iraq or numerous other conflicts, no matter how many times you try to conflate the situations.





Do you have any evidence that Russia had no concerns? Clearly that would come from Russian media, which you have chosen to ignore. So you really have less awareness of what Russia's concerns are than anyone with a willingness to read the opposition viewpoint.

You mean Russian propaganda units would parrot Russian propaganda? Good call...
nortex97
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About right.





Great people, our allies there.

I think sonar is onto something with this, if overstated.

Quote:

The consequences

The main thing to understand is that western societies and economies have been put on an ideological footing. Productivity, competitiveness, technology and science are simply not priorities anymore in the West. Explaining the consequences of this process for the West would take many articles, or a book of several hundred pages. Still, let's mention a few examples.

The inverse competence crisis
The goal of this entire project has been to place the ideologically pure in all positions of power at all levels of society. These positions are, in a normal and competitive society, occupied by the highly competent 1.5/8 group. The process has now reached near-completion with most positions of power occupied by the ideologically pure. Some of those people have high IQs but they are neither objective nor independent thinkers. The Ideology they must subscribe to is simply incompatible with those qualities. This has some serious consequences.

Remember that positions of power and influence are more likely to demand general competence than other positions (as opposed to specific competence). The greater the power, the more the position demands general competence. The people in these positons now are selected by ideological fervor and reliability so the higher you go, the more ideologically enthusiastic the people who hold them. This means that the least objective and independent thinking people hold the positions which require the greatest objectivity and independent thinking. Therefore, in the West incompetence becomes greater and more common the higher you go. As someone said "a general is an incompetent colonel." This can be seen absolutely everywhere except in some holdout private companies. Those exceptions are of course being addressed as we speak.

The second problem is that many of the irrational/subjective people holding all the power have reasonably high IQs. That may seem to be a positive thing but it has a major disadvantage. Moderate to high IQ irrational/subjective people are the easiest to brainwash of all people. The reasons for that are complicated and need to be addressed in another article but what this means is that the top tier in the West is not only the most incompetent it can possibly be in comparison to what their jobs require but are also the most malleable and delusional.

The cost and debt crisis The migration of the ideologically pure into the ideological power base and positions of influence has created millions of jobs in western societies which create no value. These jobs are much more numerous and more widespread than most people realize, and I wouldn't be surprised if something like 20%-30% of the entire labor force of the West could be fired without any adverse effect. In fact, the effect would be positive, especially if those people could be made to work the (mostly menial) real-economy jobs they are suitable for.

Deindustrialization has been blamed for the extreme debt levels and tax burdens of the West. That is, as far as it goes, true but maintaining this giant group of incompetents in their fake jobs is also placing an extreme burden on the West. Western societies are now completely unsustainable and cannot be run without constant debt increase.
oysterbayAG
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It's was interesting when Tucker asked Archer if there were a lot of Americans running around Ukraine and Archer said there were, making deals and lobbying etc. Tucker asked if Ukraine was a Sovern Country or a Protectorate of the USA ! So it looks like the Washington DC greedy and incompetent, gangsters commingled with their corrupt sleazy counterparts in Ukraine, to destroy Ukraine like they are destroying the USA. When Ukraine ends up to be a Rump State with Russia in control of half their territory, it will be pathetic to hear the excuses and of course lies come from the corrupt and incompetent Biden Administration. This whole situation is too stupid to believe !
Teslag
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Russia has no chance to control half of ukriane with zero ability to mount any real offensive
PlaneCrashGuy
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Teslag said:

Russia has no chance to control half of ukriane


How long do you think this stays true? 1 year? 10 years? 100? 1000?
I'm not sure if people genuinely believe someone is going to say, "Wow, if some people say I'm a moron for not believing this, it clearly must be true."

It's not much a persuasive argument. It really just sounds like a bunch of miniature dachshunds barking because the first one one barked when it thought it heard something.
Teslag
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

Russia has no chance to control half of ukriane


How long do you think this stays true? 1 year? 10 years? 100? 1000?


At the height of Russian occupation in March 2022, Russia controlled 27% of Ukraine including Crimea. That is now down to about 18%.

So Russia at their peak only managed 27% of Ukraine before nato assistance. They've only lost ground since and Ukraine now has nato weaponry, entrenched lines, and Russia is decimated.

So you tell me, when does Russia take half of Ukraine? Because I'm saying it's ****ing not in the next 100 years.
Teslag
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I mean, Russia has lost a whopping 60% of their gains made during the "special military operation" but that will all change once they bring the super secret stash of weapons online.
PlaneCrashGuy
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If you didn't want to answer, thats cool. Just spare us the machismo man, please.
I'm not sure if people genuinely believe someone is going to say, "Wow, if some people say I'm a moron for not believing this, it clearly must be true."

It's not much a persuasive argument. It really just sounds like a bunch of miniature dachshunds barking because the first one one barked when it thought it heard something.
10thYrSr
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Teslag said:

Russia has no chance to control half of ukriane with zero ability to mount any real offensive


If they continue to remain on the defensive, and Ukraine continues to throw their forces against these ever hardening defenses, Ukraine losses will continue to mount. At this point Ukraine forces are being sent into heavily mined areas. They are losing numbers while not even being allowed to engage the enemy. Ukraine doesn't have the force advantage of troop numbers.

So Russia can just wait them out until their numbers are too low to resist an offensive.

What is the scenario where you imagine this playing out differently?
10thYrSr
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Teslag said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

Russia has no chance to control half of ukriane


How long do you think this stays true? 1 year? 10 years? 100? 1000?


At the height of Russian occupation in March 2022, Russia controlled 27% of Ukraine including Crimea. That is now down to about 18%.

So Russia at their peak only managed 27% of Ukraine before nato assistance. They've only lost ground since and Ukraine now has nato weaponry, entrenched lines, and Russia is decimated.

So you tell me, when does Russia take half of Ukraine? Because I'm saying it's ****ing not in the next 100 years.


How do they have entrenched lines if they are on an offensive? Are they not on an offensive?
TRADUCTOR
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I've noticed a drop in the ITAs (improvised toy attack) videos. We need to send more money.
Teslag
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10thYrSr said:

Teslag said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

Russia has no chance to control half of ukriane


How long do you think this stays true? 1 year? 10 years? 100? 1000?


At the height of Russian occupation in March 2022, Russia controlled 27% of Ukraine including Crimea. That is now down to about 18%.

So Russia at their peak only managed 27% of Ukraine before nato assistance. They've only lost ground since and Ukraine now has nato weaponry, entrenched lines, and Russia is decimated.

So you tell me, when does Russia take half of Ukraine? Because I'm saying it's ****ing not in the next 100 years.


How do they have entrenched lines if they are on an offensive? Are they not on an offensive?

.Because you can have both.
Teslag
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Quote:

At this point Ukraine forces are being sent into heavily mined areas. They are losing numbers while not even being allowed to engage the enemy. Ukraine doesn't have the force advantage of troop numbers.

This is incorrect, they shifted away from doing this a couple of months ago. Their offensive is now targeted in the south with coordinated artillery and slower pushes into cleared areas.

Fortunately, they have zero to worry about in regards to a Russian counter offensive so they can go as slow as they need to.
Teslag
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TRADUCTOR said:

I've noticed a drop in the ITAs (improvised toy attack) videos. We need to send more money.

These are now happening on the Black Sea. Stacking bodies to sinking them.
PlaneCrashGuy
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Don't think of it as trolling, think of it as valuable insight into what the western propaganda machine is peddling for the day.
I'm not sure if people genuinely believe someone is going to say, "Wow, if some people say I'm a moron for not believing this, it clearly must be true."

It's not much a persuasive argument. It really just sounds like a bunch of miniature dachshunds barking because the first one one barked when it thought it heard something.
GAC06
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TRADUCTOR said:

I've noticed a drop in the ITAs (improvised toy attack) videos. We need to send more money.


Uh, both sides are using cheap improvised drones extensively in attacks. But I guess you thought that was some kind of gotcha against Ukraine?
10thYrSr
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Teslag said:


Quote:

At this point Ukraine forces are being sent into heavily mined areas. They are losing numbers while not even being allowed to engage the enemy. Ukraine doesn't have the force advantage of troop numbers.

This is incorrect, they shifted away from doing this a couple of months ago. Their offensive is now targeted in the south with coordinated artillery and slower pushes into cleared areas.

Fortunately, they have zero to worry about in regards to a Russian counter offensive so they can go as slow as they need to.


Remember the post where I asked you to give a scenario? You seem to have skipped over that one. Please respond regarding dwindling troop numbers.
Teslag
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Ukraine is no longer losing soldiers in great numbers as they were earlier. Russia doesn't have the equipment or technology to mount offensives. This is no longer 1942 and throwing bodies not longer works for anyone, even Russia. And with NATO weapons they don't need a great troop advantage playing defense.

So, no scenario has zero chance of being realistic. Once there's any peace Ukraine joins NATO and we have permanent forces in Ukraine like we do in Poland and Romania. And that happens far before Russia gets within a C hair of "half of Ukraine".
GinMan
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nortex97
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Teslag
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GinMan said:




Enjoying themselves? The gall. They definitely deserve subjugation now.
Teslag
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nortex97 said:







Quote:

Talks about Ukraine are not necessary until "Kiev pleads for mercy", stated Dmitry Medvedev, Deputy Chairman of the Security Council of the Russian Federation. Commenting on the Jeddah meeting, he emphasized that the negotiation process will only succeed with the participation of both conflict parties and the consideration of existing realities.


Remember folks, it's all Ukraine's fault there is no peace. And Russian just wants the lands they annexed, but it's not a land grab. And they definitely don't want anything else of Ukraine. But Kiev, which is hundreds of miles from the front, must beg for mercy.
Joes
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Is this thing still going on? I haven't checked in here for ages.

Anybody winning?
nortex97
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Yep, Ukraine's big offensive has captured several square kilometers this spring, at a loss of life of around 43,000 UFA troops. Good times!

Joes
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I see. So the offensive did actually happen, I hadn't heard one way or another.

It's bizarre, I'm a lifelong history nut and in particular miliary history. I could tell you about every detail of the eastern front of WW2 for example down to many specific units off the top of my head, and I even spent two weeks in September 2018 in Russia on a river cruise from Moscow to St Peterburg (crewed by Ukrainians). We were the first Americans to ever make that trip. So I feel both a personal and abstract connection to that area.

And yet I can't even bring myself to invest any time keeping up with this. I know FAR more about the fighting in these exact spaces 80 years ago than I know about this. And the lack of any meaningful change I guess is part of that. Plus, I guess I'm just jaded about how our country is going and don't care much what our strategic interests are any more, if there even are any there.

But thanks for the update.
Teslag
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nortex97 said:

Yep, Ukraine's big offensive has captured several square kilometers this spring, at a loss of life of around 43,000 UFA troops. Good times!



Ya, they should get out of that pool and crowd into a pizzeria.




So that the Russians can target them easier correct?
fka ftc
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Joes said:

I see. So the offensive did actually happen, I hadn't heard one way or another.

It's bizarre, I'm a lifelong history nut and in particular miliary history. I could tell you about every detail of the eastern front of WW2 for example down to many specific units off the top of my head, and I even spent two weeks in September 2018 in Russia on a river cruise from Moscow to St Peterburg (crewed by Ukrainians). We were the first Americans to ever make that trip. So I feel both a personal and abstract connection to that area.

And yet I can't even bring myself to invest any time keeping up with this. I know FAR more about the fighting in these exact spaces 80 years ago than I know about this. And the lack of any meaningful change I guess is part of that. Plus, I guess I'm just jaded about how our country is going and don't care much what our strategic interests are any more, if there even are any there.

But thanks for the update.
Great post. There are lots of folks both on here and in your daily lives that have paid zero attention to history, much less have an interest in studying it, learning from it, and in particularly as it pertains to the last couple hundred years of stronger countries deciding rather haphazardly (and in their own interests) which "sovereign countries" could exist, what they are to be called, whom they will house and where their borders are drawn.

Looking at Poland in the late 1700's gives good insight to this when Russia and friends carved it up in several iterations. Further done so following WWII, then Nazi Germany took a turn, then the Russians rand it until the end of the Soviet Union (or really just before).

The Pols are an independent and proud people like the Ukes, but have a similar history of either hitching itself to another's teats or by being essentially managed by a bigger country / organization.
nortex97
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Yep. Will be interesting to see how 'all this stuff' plays out. Victoria Nuland remains a very dangerous person, imho, in a position of influence/power (or perceived/egotistical power):



It's great to claim 'I don't want to pay attention to this' but in truth I consider myself very 'non-isolationist' as I think it is coming/impacting us quickly/right this second. Ukes claiming a Russian spy tried to kill saint Z by poisoning his coffee just as I am typing I see.

Teslag
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Quote:

They actually need him to be in place when Ukraine is forced to capitulate and sign a peace treaty with 25%-30% less territory than it possessed on 2-23-22.



More Russian fan fiction. At Russias height in April of 2022 they only possessed 27% of Ukraine and that included Crimea. Now it's down to 18% and Russia has no way to mount any offensive worth a *****


Must be a "different perspective" based on the dream of 100 T-90's per month. Or is it 200 now?
PlaneCrashGuy
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Teslag said:

Quote:

They actually need him to be in place when Ukraine is forced to capitulate and sign a peace treaty with 25%-30% less territory than it possessed on 2-23-22.
Russia has no way to mount any offensive worth a *****


CNN told him, so it has to be true. Right?
I'm not sure if people genuinely believe someone is going to say, "Wow, if some people say I'm a moron for not believing this, it clearly must be true."

It's not much a persuasive argument. It really just sounds like a bunch of miniature dachshunds barking because the first one one barked when it thought it heard something.
Teslag
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

Quote:

They actually need him to be in place when Ukraine is forced to capitulate and sign a peace treaty with 25%-30% less territory than it possessed on 2-23-22.
Russia has no way to mount any offensive worth a *****


CNN told him, so it has to be true. Right?


And everyone but Russia. But keep hoping that super secret stash of modern weapons exists. Hell at this point you should hope they have a stash of weapons made in the last 40 years.
PlaneCrashGuy
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Teslag said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

Quote:

They actually need him to be in place when Ukraine is forced to capitulate and sign a peace treaty with 25%-30% less territory than it possessed on 2-23-22.
Russia has no way to mount any offensive worth a *****


CNN told him, so it has to be true. Right?


And everyone but Russia. But keep hoping that super secret stash of modern weapons exists. Hell at this point you should hope they have a stash of weapons made in the last 40 years.


Everyone but Russia guys! Everyone!
I'm not sure if people genuinely believe someone is going to say, "Wow, if some people say I'm a moron for not believing this, it clearly must be true."

It's not much a persuasive argument. It really just sounds like a bunch of miniature dachshunds barking because the first one one barked when it thought it heard something.
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