When they start talking to themselves, you know Russia is winning.

A defensive invasion of you will. A coordinated scheme between Biden, Xi, Putin, Soros, and Globohomo to fleece us of military equipment. I learned that on this highly informative thread.

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

When they start talking to themselves, you know Russia is winning.

---

Didn't you hear Russia aleady won last February

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-60562240.amp

GAC06 said:

---

A defensive invasion of you will. A coordinated scheme between Biden, Xi, Putin, Soros, and Globohomo to fleece us of military equipment. I learned that on this highly informative thread.

---

I think you forgot that Zelensky is also in on the "grift". He is part foolish comedian and part master strategist that organized the invasion of his own country for profit.

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

When they start talking to themselves, you know Russia is winning.

---

Looking at this part of the thread it's nothing but ignores of the pro Uke Z worshippers.

I've grown tired of scathing bans for calling out their exhaustive trolling. It's worse than a religious discussion on the General Board.

Repetitive nonsensical name calling anyone who does not call for stacking Rooskie bodies is nothing but a Putin plant.

Appreciate the posts by Nortex and the adults in the room here can discern whether they trust the information sources or not. But the clutter of "that's Russian propaganda" is such childish nonsense.

fka ftc said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

When they start talking to themselves, you know Russia is winning.

---

Looking at this part of the thread it's nothing but ignores of the pro Uke Z worshippers.

I've grown tired of scathing bans for calling out their exhaustive trolling. It's worse than a religious discussion on the General Board.

Repetitive nonsensical name calling anyone who does not call for stacking Rooskie bodies is nothing but a Putin plant.

Appreciate the posts by Nortex and the adults in the room here can discern whether they trust the information sources or not. But the clutter of "that's Russian propaganda" is such childish nonsense.

---

Sorry that your "pro Russia Putin Worshipper" safe space was interrupted, but happy for you that you were able to create one anyways.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

When they start talking to themselves, you know Russia is winning.

---

Looking at this part of the thread it's nothing but ignores of the pro Uke Z worshippers.

I've grown tired of scathing bans for calling out their exhaustive trolling. It's worse than a religious discussion on the General Board.

Repetitive nonsensical name calling anyone who does not call for stacking Rooskie bodies is nothing but a Putin plant.

Appreciate the posts by Nortex and the adults in the room here can discern whether they trust the information sources or not. But the clutter of "that's Russian propaganda" is such childish nonsense.

---

Sorry that your "pro Russia Putin Worshipper" safe space was interrupted, but happy for you that you were able to create one anyways.

---

I see GAC06 and Teslag were quick to star your posts. Interesting it always stops at 2 or 3 stars. Congrats, sure sign you added thoughtful perspective to the discussion.

Back on topic, it's pretty clear what the Ukraine conflict has been about. Biden encouraged Putin that now was the time for him to act with Biden's objective being to fire up the war machine and print more dollars for his friends.

It's a shame supposedly intelligent people cannot see that.

fka ftc said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

When they start talking to themselves, you know Russia is winning.

---

Looking at this part of the thread it's nothing but ignores of the pro Uke Z worshippers.

I've grown tired of scathing bans for calling out their exhaustive trolling. It's worse than a religious discussion on the General Board.

Repetitive nonsensical name calling anyone who does not call for stacking Rooskie bodies is nothing but a Putin plant.

Appreciate the posts by Nortex and the adults in the room here can discern whether they trust the information sources or not. But the clutter of "that's Russian propaganda" is such childish nonsense.

---

Sorry that your "pro Russia Putin Worshipper" safe space was interrupted, but happy for you that you were able to create one anyways.

---

I see GAC06 and Teslag were quick to star your posts. Interesting it always stops at 2 or 3 stars. Congrats, sure sign you added thoughtful perspective to the discussion.

Back on topic, it's pretty clear what the Ukraine conflict has been about. Biden encouraged Putin that now was the time for him to act with Biden's objective being to fire up the war machine and print more dollars for his friends.

It's a shame supposedly intelligent people cannot see that.

---

Thanks, not quite as thoughtful of a perspective as labeling every person critical of people posting actual state owned and distributed Russian propaganda as if it's factual as a "pro Ukraine Z Worshipper," but those are tough standards to live up to.

Is it "clear" that that's actually what happened? Or could it be that Putin is just greedy and wanted Ukraine back? That would be quite an accomplishment for someone who apparently doesn't know where they are most days.

It's clear that those who think Ukraine has some inherent right to perpetual sovereignty just never paid much attention to history.

Borders change, nations change, empires come and go. Fun fact, the US started out as 13 colonies then 13 states and expanded, often through war and by purchase of land at opportunistic times.

We all seem to be okay with our own war mongering but folks want to say Putin had no right to protect the interests of his country and citizens.

I am not condoning what Putin has done, but I can recognize the situation is a bit more complex than certain folks on this thread would like it to be.

Let me know if you read the World Explained in Maps from Geopolitical Futures. It provides excellent insight into why many of our global conflicts exist and to try to think past just what someone tells you is right and wrong.

The fact that a majority of Americans oppose further funding for Ukraine is a remarkable act of defiance against MSM narrative control, Biden’s policy (“as much as it takes, as long as it takes”), and the GOP Establishment (“Biden should do more, faster”). pic.twitter.com/0jxpzldhJx

— David Sacks (@DavidSacks) August 4, 2023

First poll I can recall where a majority favor stopping it.

Russia's main challenge is a labor shortage, not currency/inflation/trade/sanctions:

Quote:

---

Of course, the burden of maintaining Ukraine's defense is a massive fiscal burden for Kyiv and its allies too, including the cost of maintaining economic sanctions against Russia.

The Wall Street Journal (WSJ) on Wednesday was less optimistic that Moscow will lose the money war, noting that on both the real-world and spreadsheet battlefields, titanic Western spending has only been able to achieve a "stalemate" against Russia.

The Biden White House glibly predicted sanctions would "cut Russia's economy in half" after the invasion of Ukraine began, but Russian GDP shrank only 2.1 percent in the first year of the war, and will grow by 1.5 percent this year, even though Russia is "the most sanctioned major economy in the world."
Nothing about the sanctions regime has worked as the Biden administration predicted:

Quote:

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When they were unveiled, the sanctions were described by Biden administration officials as the most consequential in history, and the initial shock and awe roiled Moscow's financial markets. But today the economy has muddled through enough for the Kremlin to support an attritional war that the U.S. had hoped to avoid.

Sanctions initially starved Russia of microchips and high-tech components last year, crimping its ability to produce precision-guided missiles. But since then Moscow has found loopholes through neighboring countries, and is bombing Ukraine daily with precision weaponry.

Russia's crude oil continues to flow, even if the lower prices it fetches have hit state coffers. Analysts say that the main effect of sanctionstechnological backwardness and an inability to modernizewill hamper its economic growth in the longer term.

---

The military budget document reviewed by Reuters might be a bit more gloomy than the situation described by the WSJ's correspondents a few days earlier, but the bottom line is that Russia's strategy of using military production as economic stimulus to balance the impact of sanctions and relying on a few key trading partners and shadowy shipping networks to avoid the worst of those impacts is still working for the moment.

Interestingly, the Reuters and WSJ analyses agreed on one key point: Russia's great near-term weakness is a growing shortage of labor.

---

Ep. 13 Part 2. Devon Archer pic.twitter.com/R1sxSuPrKq

— Tucker Carlson (@TuckerCarlson) August 4, 2023

Just $50-100K gifts like a Humboldt watch from their Ukrainian employers. No biggie. (50 minutes). Yes, this is a BIG part of why there are hundreds of thousands dead today in Ukraine.

[You are derailing the thread when you complain about "trollers." It is inconsiderate to other posters. Engage in the discussion as vigorously as you want but stop the derailing and avoid personal attacks -- Staff]

[Your complaints about moderation are getting old. One day didn't work so try three this time. Continue the behavior and they will double every time. Furthermore, you are encouraged to participate in the discussion on this thread -- even vigorously -- as long as you don't attack or insult others or derail the thread with constant complaints about "trolling." Just because someone says something you don't like doesn't make it trolling. Flag it for review and we'll look at it. Confirmed trollers in our perspective will be dealt with -- Staff]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66402046.amp

Ukraine reaching out further and further for Russian assets in Russian seas. We desperately need to provide them with long range weapons to take this fight to the Russian back yard.

Some tomahawks and ground launchers would be a great addition. Let them target the source of some of Russia's missile attacks instead of just playing defense

I did see the Russians took out a drone today. It cost them a ship, but they did take out the drone after it blew up.

GAC06 said:

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Some tomahawks and ground launchers would be a great addition. Let them target the source of some of Russia's missile attacks instead of just playing defense

---

Agreed. Ukraine should build some

AggieHammer2000 said:

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I did see the Russians took out a drone today. It cost them a ship, but they did take out the drone after it blew up.

---

Reposted from the other thread

I can feel it coming. pic.twitter.com/ETEo6B8ELh

— Bill DeMayo (@BDeMayo) August 4, 2023

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

TheBonifaceOption said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Where will Russia stop? The Dnieper? The Dnieper plus Odessa? Poland?

---

Of course none of us can know for certain, but I believe it to be the Dnieper plus Odessa, more or less. Something like this is possible:

---

That seems plausible.

---

The Dnieper flowing potable water to Crimea was highest priority for Russia. People forget Kiev dammed the Dnieper to thirst-out Crimea back in 2014. This was an internationally recognized human rights violation from our virtuous Ukrainian allies prior to the "invasion." Russia destroyed the dam in the first 2 hrs of the war.

https://thehill.com/policy/equilibrium-sustainability/597910-how-a-ukrainian-dam-played-a-key-role-in-tensions-with/

---

Why would "invasion" be in quotes? Are you implying Russia didn't actually invade?

---

First, recognize the conflict has been going on for 8 years prior to Russia's direct involvement.

Secondly, the initial force was not majority Russian, but ethnic-Russian Ukrainians from the Donbass who have fled to Russia over the past decade due to the brutalization of the conflict.

The "invasion" was primarily Ukrainian expats. Would you consider the Bay of Pigs an American invasion of Cuba? The majority of that force were Cuban nationals who fled Castro, they had backing by Americans but the force was largely Cuban expats.

If you have been paying attention to Moscow since the "invasion", the admittance of Luhansk and Donetsk into the federation was a legal trigger for Putin to activate the regular Russian military to a larger role than previously engaged.

The first few weeks you had folks laughing at the "invaders" driving weird vehicles ranging from Yugos to primer-painted ice cream trucks. "Thats the 'powerful' russian military? ROFLMAO." No, indeed it wasnt. It was a militia of Russian-Ukrainians.

Russia was directly involved from the very beginning.

The "mostly not real Russians" is a ludicrous excuse for getting their asses kicked.

"It's none of our business." -remains a statement of truth.

RU naval ships, and the Kerch bridge has apparently been attacked again, will see if it did any meaningful damage this time. In any case, it seems large surface combatant ships are almost as much a liability as asset, in the new 'drone/modern' world of naval warfare.

Rob Campbell seems to be a partisan in favor of Russia, clearly, but some interesting details in his run-down of the week's events.

GAC06 said:

---

Russia was directly involved from the very beginning.

The "mostly not real Russians" is a ludicrous excuse for getting their asses kicked.

---

Define "very beginning." From 2014? Or 2022? Or 1783?

Gonna need you to be more specific.

TheBonifaceOption said:

---

GAC06 said:

---

Russia was directly involved from the very beginning.

The "mostly not real Russians" is a ludicrous excuse for getting their asses kicked.

---

Define "very beginning." From 2014? Or 2022? Or 1783?

Gonna need you to be more specific.

---

His answer will tell us quite a bit about the framing of this discussion, I think.

TheBonifaceOption said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

TheBonifaceOption said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Where will Russia stop? The Dnieper? The Dnieper plus Odessa? Poland?

---

Of course none of us can know for certain, but I believe it to be the Dnieper plus Odessa, more or less. Something like this is possible:

---

That seems plausible.

---

The Dnieper flowing potable water to Crimea was highest priority for Russia. People forget Kiev dammed the Dnieper to thirst-out Crimea back in 2014. This was an internationally recognized human rights violation from our virtuous Ukrainian allies prior to the "invasion." Russia destroyed the dam in the first 2 hrs of the war.

https://thehill.com/policy/equilibrium-sustainability/597910-how-a-ukrainian-dam-played-a-key-role-in-tensions-with/

---

Why would "invasion" be in quotes? Are you implying Russia didn't actually invade?

---

First, recognize the conflict has been going on for 8 years prior to Russia's direct involvement.

Secondly, the initial force was not majority Russian, but ethnic-Russian Ukrainians from the Donbass who have fled to Russia over the past decade due to the brutalization of the conflict.

The "invasion" was primarily Ukrainian expats. Would you consider the Bay of Pigs an American invasion of Cuba? The majority of that force were Cuban nationals who fled Castro, they had backing by Americans but the force was largely Cuban expats.

If you have been paying attention to Moscow since the "invasion", the admittance of Luhansk and Donetsk into the federation was a legal trigger for Putin to activate the regular Russian military to a larger role than previously engaged.

The first few weeks you had folks laughing at the "invaders" driving weird vehicles ranging from Yugos to primer-painted ice cream trucks. "Thats the 'powerful' russian military? ROFLMAO." No, indeed it wasnt. It was a militia of Russian-Ukrainians.

---

What a load of bull *****

Let me guess, Russia didn't want all of Ukraine either

Teslag said:

---

What a load of bull *****

Let me guess, Russia didn't want all of Ukraine either

---

Ah yes, here you go again with the debunked narrative of Putin wanting all of Ukraine, then on his way to the Atlantic.

TheBonifaceOption said:

---

GAC06 said:

---

Russia was directly involved from the very beginning.

The "mostly not real Russians" is a ludicrous excuse for getting their asses kicked.

---

Define "very beginning." From 2014? Or 2022? Or 1783?

Gonna need you to be more specific.

---

I was referring to military action starting in 2014 but obviously they were involved before that with their stooge in power. With the revolution and subsequent elections changing that, he fled to Russia and Putin began their military involvement.

TheBonifaceOption said:

---

Teslag said:

---

What a load of bull *****

Let me guess, Russia didn't want all of Ukraine either

---

Ah yes, here you go again with the debunked narrative of Putin wanting all of Ukraine, then on his way to the Atlantic.

---

Debunked by who? You!?


The guy who says Ukrainian ex pats in ice cream trucks parachuted into Ukraine?

TheBonifaceOption said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

TheBonifaceOption said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Where will Russia stop? The Dnieper? The Dnieper plus Odessa? Poland?

---

Of course none of us can know for certain, but I believe it to be the Dnieper plus Odessa, more or less. Something like this is possible:

---

That seems plausible.

---

The Dnieper flowing potable water to Crimea was highest priority for Russia. People forget Kiev dammed the Dnieper to thirst-out Crimea back in 2014. This was an internationally recognized human rights violation from our virtuous Ukrainian allies prior to the "invasion." Russia destroyed the dam in the first 2 hrs of the war.

https://thehill.com/policy/equilibrium-sustainability/597910-how-a-ukrainian-dam-played-a-key-role-in-tensions-with/

---

Why would "invasion" be in quotes? Are you implying Russia didn't actually invade?

---

First, recognize the conflict has been going on for 8 years prior to Russia's direct involvement.

Secondly, the initial force was not majority Russian, but ethnic-Russian Ukrainians from the Donbass who have fled to Russia over the past decade due to the brutalization of the conflict.

The "invasion" was primarily Ukrainian expats. Would you consider the Bay of Pigs an American invasion of Cuba? The majority of that force were Cuban nationals who fled Castro, they had backing by Americans but the force was largely Cuban expats.

If you have been paying attention to Moscow since the "invasion", the admittance of Luhansk and Donetsk into the federation was a legal trigger for Putin to activate the regular Russian military to a larger role than previously engaged.

The first few weeks you had folks laughing at the "invaders" driving weird vehicles ranging from Yugos to primer-painted ice cream trucks. "Thats the 'powerful' russian military? ROFLMAO." No, indeed it wasnt. It was a militia of Russian-Ukrainians.

---

That seems like a lot of words to say "yes, Russia invaded Ukraine and I had no actual reason to put "invasion" in quotes."

And given that we didn't follow the Bay of Pigs with a massive army that planned on taking over the country I would say that no, that was not an invasion. But thank you for continuing the weird trend of…we'll call them Russian-friendly posters, attempting to justify Russia's unprovoked invasion for some strange reason by logic leaping a comparison to something the US has done.

Russia totally didn't send the 11th and 31st airborne forces to Kiev international airport. They also totally didn't send the 141st motorized regiment to support them along with 200 helicopters and tanks in a second wave to secure the airport. None of this definitely didn't happen on February 24,2022. This was also definitely not an attempt to take the Ukrainian capital

No this was all just dudes in ice cream trucks from the Donbas. Definitely not trying to invade Ukraine. At all.

There weren't major positively identified Russian units staged in Russia, Belarus, and Crimea. They didn't advance towards Kiev, Kharkiv, and Odessa only to be turned back with heavy losses of men and top of the line equipment. They were Russian speaking Ukrainians in bongo trucks. Putin remains a master strategist.

Well its certainly good to have you boys back. I was thinking the war could be ending when your unique posting style was missing for a few days.

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Well its certainly good to have you boys back. I was thinking the war could be ending when your unique posting style was missing for a few days.

---

You're a pretty reasoned and logical poster on just about every other thread. I genuinely enjoy your other takes. You do realize you don't HAVE to hitch your wagon to people that say Russia not only were justified in invading Ukraine but then also say they didn't invade at all right?

Teslag said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

Well its certainly good to have you boys back. I was thinking the war could be ending when your unique posting style was missing for a few days.

---

You're a pretty reasoned and logical poster on just about every other thread. I genuinely enjoy your other takes. You do realize you don't HAVE to hitch your wagon to people that say Russia not only were justified in invading Ukraine but then also say they didn't invade at all right?

---

He has a point. Did we invade Iraq? Does invasion mean that the invader wants to control a country? We didn't want to control Iraq necessarily, but our "invasion" certainly destabilized the government to the point that we needed to establish a new one.

"Russia is the aggressor and therefore should be scorned" from the same folks who brought you "We came. We saw. He died."

Russia literally annexed the territories they invaded (and failed to invade)

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

TheBonifaceOption said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

TheBonifaceOption said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Where will Russia stop? The Dnieper? The Dnieper plus Odessa? Poland?

---

Of course none of us can know for certain, but I believe it to be the Dnieper plus Odessa, more or less. Something like this is possible:

---

That seems plausible.

---

The Dnieper flowing potable water to Crimea was highest priority for Russia. People forget Kiev dammed the Dnieper to thirst-out Crimea back in 2014. This was an internationally recognized human rights violation from our virtuous Ukrainian allies prior to the "invasion." Russia destroyed the dam in the first 2 hrs of the war.

https://thehill.com/policy/equilibrium-sustainability/597910-how-a-ukrainian-dam-played-a-key-role-in-tensions-with/

---

Why would "invasion" be in quotes? Are you implying Russia didn't actually invade?

---

First, recognize the conflict has been going on for 8 years prior to Russia's direct involvement.

Secondly, the initial force was not majority Russian, but ethnic-Russian Ukrainians from the Donbass who have fled to Russia over the past decade due to the brutalization of the conflict.

The "invasion" was primarily Ukrainian expats. Would you consider the Bay of Pigs an American invasion of Cuba? The majority of that force were Cuban nationals who fled Castro, they had backing by Americans but the force was largely Cuban expats.

If you have been paying attention to Moscow since the "invasion", the admittance of Luhansk and Donetsk into the federation was a legal trigger for Putin to activate the regular Russian military to a larger role than previously engaged.

The first few weeks you had folks laughing at the "invaders" driving weird vehicles ranging from Yugos to primer-painted ice cream trucks. "Thats the 'powerful' russian military? ROFLMAO." No, indeed it wasnt. It was a militia of Russian-Ukrainians.

---

That seems like a lot of words to say "yes, Russia invaded Ukraine and I had no actual reason to put "invasion" in quotes."

And given that we didn't follow the Bay of Pigs with a massive army that planned on taking over the country I would say that no, that was not an invasion. But thank you for continuing the weird trend of…we'll call them Russian-friendly posters, attempting to justify Russia's unprovoked invasion for some strange reason by logic leaping a comparison to something the US has done.

---

I like how you pick out the quotes around the invasion to critique so that you can conveniently ignore the thirsting out of Crimea and how the Ukrainians were committing human rights violations before the invasion.

Way to keep those blinders up.