Dickdelaware said:

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Teslag said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Anyone who argues this is the "Ukrainians war" and they have a right to die for their country if that's what they want. We have to support them in their struggle because they are heroes. Just is cowardice.

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Quite a stretch to call that viewpoint "passionately celebrating the needless loss of life", no? Are you saying Ukrainians don't have a right to die for their country?

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Where this faux concern for the Ukrainian always falls apart is when the pusher of such falls right in line with Kremlin talking points, pro-Russian viewpoints on the cause of the war, etc.

As I have always said, there are just criticisms for our involvement and financial contribution. There is however no excuse to echo Russian propaganda and outright supporting their occupation.

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Such BS. No one is obligated to clear what they read with you.

When you've trolled this thread for months, and repeatedly said you want to see 'Russian bodies stacked far and wide' don't pretend you have some sort of moral high ground to demand others exclaim to your satisfaction concern for UFA lives. Seriously, get a life. You convince no one, and just make more and more folks hate whatever it is you adopt as your cause celebre with your incessant over the top cheerleading and patronizing insults.

The quicker the UFA is utterly crushed the better/safer we all will be, and it will save us money too.

https://www.rt.com/russia/579897-europes-black-hole-ukraine/

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Thanks, Vlad!

Teslag said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Teslag said:

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Meanwhile you hold out for some mythical gallant victory

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Who is saying this? Ukraine has already achieved a sizeable victory by simply existing today. I think the most realistic outcome for them is holding on to what they have plus a little more. They will never retake Crimea. They will never retake most of the Donbass.

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That's like saying A&M won when they were up by 35 at half time. Oh the sumlin Era and the many scars it left.

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Russia has no ability to retake sizeable parts of Ukraine. It simply doesn't and won't exist.

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Yep there is 0 historical precedence of Russia being known as a military force that starts out slow and then builds up like a freight train. That is of course if you ignore all the major wars Russia has fought. Which luckily for you just requires your continued ignorance so even less effort!

Economically Russia is strong. Politically there are clear schisms forming in the western socialist states that support Ukraine. Trump and DeSantis have both echoed a strong desire to end the war and get a peace on day 1. But yeah Russia has no outs to win this war. You are CERTAIN about that. Despite you knowing nothing that should give you that confidence. Sad.

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Yep there is 0 historical precedence of Russia being known as a military force that starts out slow and then builds up like a freight train. That is of course if you ignore all the major wars Russia has fought.

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Like Afghanistan?

texagbeliever said:

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I never advocated for turning the other cheek. I just don't advocate for fighting a war when the winners will be big banks and billionaires who will buy up Ukraine on the cheap. You seem to confuse being strategic and getting the best possible outcome with surrender. Meanwhile you hold out for some mythical gallant victory that will not happen and at this point will amount to little gain.

Ukraine is losing its culture and ethos by losing its population through death, low birth rates and mass emigration. Winning the war gives them rights to a wasteland they will be applying to other countries to escape. Not to mention the fascist regime they now live under.

Sorry I live in real world. I get war is ugly. I also get that humans are ugly and evil especially those in power. I can't understand the whole war should be nice and honorable crowd. It is nonsensical to the actual idea of war. Oh kill each other but only kill these people and do it humanely.

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a) That "wasteland" 1) seems to be VERY important to Russia and 2) is the "breadbasket of Europe" for a reason.

b) I supposed they should be hoping to live under the fascist regime that is invading them and killing them indescriminately?

Teslag said:

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Yep there is 0 historical precedence of Russia being known as a military force that starts out slow and then builds up like a freight train. That is of course if you ignore all the major wars Russia has fought.

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Like Afghanistan?

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So does that make Zelensky Bin Laden? Also how great of a place is Afghanistan to live right now following that conflict. Oh terrible. But yeah we Americans really helped out the Afghanis by empowering a brutal political organization to control their country instead of evil Putin. What a joke.

Teslag said:

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So you think that Ukraine should just give Russia whatever they want to end the war? Where is the line in which Ukraine should reject and keep fighting?

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Sounds like he wants Ukraine to take the "If it's inevitable, just relax and enjoy it" position on the war...

texagbeliever said:

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Teslag said:

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Yep there is 0 historical precedence of Russia being known as a military force that starts out slow and then builds up like a freight train. That is of course if you ignore all the major wars Russia has fought.

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Like Afghanistan?

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So does that make Zelensky Bin Laden? Also how great of a place is Afghanistan to live right now following that conflict. Oh terrible. But yeah we Americans really helped out the Afghanis by empowering a brutal political organization to control their country instead of evil Putin. What a joke.

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Keep moving those goalposts. Russia hasn't won a modern war. Since WW2 they have dicked around in regional affairs and suffered some success and some failure. Just like us. This isn't 1942 anymore. They can't just throw a bunch of drunks at the problem and hope it goes away. They need to win with modern offensive weapons, with cohesive tactics, logistics, and coordination. They have shown zero ability to do that at all. You keep accusing others of ignoring realty and you can't even delve into any specifics when it comes to what and how Russia is going to take all of Ukraine. Which it now appears you support.

Teslag said:

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Yep there is 0 historical precedence of Russia being known as a military force that starts out slow and then builds up like a freight train. That is of course if you ignore all the major wars Russia has fought.

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Like Afghanistan?

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Or Georgia?

LarryElder said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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texagbeliever said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Anyone who argues this is the "Ukrainians war" and they have a right to die for their country if that's what they want. We have to support them in their struggle because they are heroes. Just is cowardice.

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Quite a stretch to call that viewpoint "passionately celebrating the needless loss of life", no? Are you saying Ukrainians don't have a right to die for their country?

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Not really. They are fake risk taking at the expense of others. Any measure of hyperbole is warranted calling out such selfishness. I have read sufficient number of posts celebrating death on this thread that I would say calling it hyperbole is a stretch. You have too but are choosing to stick your head in the sand and claim the I didn't see it argument.

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Seems like all of the posts "celebrating death" basically come from one poster right? Or at least until the one on this page openly hoping Ukraine gets "utterly crushed." Kind of strange you didn't seem to have a problem with that.

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you missed StAckInG RusSSin boDies posts everyday on here? Meanwhile majority of those are some poor young guy who just wants to go home??

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Yeah.....it's definitely more than one poster.

There are several that cheer the death of Russian soldiers.

And as was pointed out, alot of them were conscripted into service with no option to stay home.

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But yeah we Americans really helped out the Afghanis by empowering a brutal political organization to control their country instead of evil Putin. What a joke

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Well, Putin wasn't in charge when the Soviets were sent packing from Afghanistan. And despite your belief they'd have been better under Kosygin's Soviet umbrella, that is a decision the Afghanis should and did decide for themselves.

texagbeliever said:

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Teslag said:

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Yep there is 0 historical precedence of Russia being known as a military force that starts out slow and then builds up like a freight train. That is of course if you ignore all the major wars Russia has fought.

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Like Afghanistan?

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So does that make Zelensky Bin Laden? Also how great of a place is Afghanistan to live right now following that conflict. Oh terrible. But yeah we Americans really helped out the Afghanis by empowering a brutal political organization to control their country instead of evil Putin. What a joke.

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Afghanistan was a craphole before and after we were there. Same as when the Russians were there.

Ags4DaWin said:

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LarryElder said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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texagbeliever said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Anyone who argues this is the "Ukrainians war" and they have a right to die for their country if that's what they want. We have to support them in their struggle because they are heroes. Just is cowardice.

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Quite a stretch to call that viewpoint "passionately celebrating the needless loss of life", no? Are you saying Ukrainians don't have a right to die for their country?

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Not really. They are fake risk taking at the expense of others. Any measure of hyperbole is warranted calling out such selfishness. I have read sufficient number of posts celebrating death on this thread that I would say calling it hyperbole is a stretch. You have too but are choosing to stick your head in the sand and claim the I didn't see it argument.

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Seems like all of the posts "celebrating death" basically come from one poster right? Or at least until the one on this page openly hoping Ukraine gets "utterly crushed." Kind of strange you didn't seem to have a problem with that.

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you missed StAckInG RusSSin boDies posts everyday on here? Meanwhile majority of those are some poor young guy who just wants to go home??

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Yeah.....it's definitely more than one poster.

There are several that cheer the death of Russian soldiers.

And as was pointed out, alot of them were conscripted into service with no option to stay home.

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Sounds like this is Putin's fault, not Ukraine's...

Ag with kids said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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LarryElder said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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texagbeliever said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Anyone who argues this is the "Ukrainians war" and they have a right to die for their country if that's what they want. We have to support them in their struggle because they are heroes. Just is cowardice.

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Quite a stretch to call that viewpoint "passionately celebrating the needless loss of life", no? Are you saying Ukrainians don't have a right to die for their country?

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Not really. They are fake risk taking at the expense of others. Any measure of hyperbole is warranted calling out such selfishness. I have read sufficient number of posts celebrating death on this thread that I would say calling it hyperbole is a stretch. You have too but are choosing to stick your head in the sand and claim the I didn't see it argument.

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Seems like all of the posts "celebrating death" basically come from one poster right? Or at least until the one on this page openly hoping Ukraine gets "utterly crushed." Kind of strange you didn't seem to have a problem with that.

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you missed StAckInG RusSSin boDies posts everyday on here? Meanwhile majority of those are some poor young guy who just wants to go home??

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Yeah.....it's definitely more than one poster.

There are several that cheer the death of Russian soldiers.

And as was pointed out, alot of them were conscripted into service with no option to stay home.

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Sounds like this is Putin's fault, not Ukraine's...

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Not sure what gotcha moment you think you have here. Pretty much everyone is in universal agreement that Putin's tactics are reprehensible.

And noone blamed Ukraine for everything. Specifically we were discussing posters that cheer on additional death as long as it's the RIGHT bodies piling up.

The more russian soldiers die, the more land Russia loses, and the more Ukraine takes their country back and Russia is sent packing.

texagbeliever said:

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Oh and I would have gotten my family out of the Ukraine along with myself. The idea that Ukraine is some beacon of freedom and opportunity worth fighting for is laughable. A concept lost on you and other Ukraine war fans.

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So yes, you'd turn tail and have over your home and belongings. Good to know. How very brave of you.

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So you think that Ukraine should just give Russia whatever they want to end the war? Where is the line in which Ukraine should reject and keep fighting?

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Still would like your answer here. You wanted to have a discussion, let's have one.

LOL…

A Sobering Analysis Of Ukraine’s Counteroffensive From The Fronthttps://t.co/bj1jpRun4u

— Tyler Rogoway (@Aviation_Intel) July 20, 2023

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Russians also had no need to deploy operational reserves yet to fend off Ukrainian attacks. There is also evidence of reduced impact of HIMARS strikes due to effective Russian countermeasures. (This is important to keep in mind regarding any potential tactical impact of delivery of ATACMs [U.S.-produced Army Tactical Missile System]).

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It's not working, the Russians are stopping the little infantry type of attacks before they even reach the first minefields, the Russians have good ISR, and plenty of ammo. But other than that, it's going great.

Totally worth it, to all involved, for freedom/liberty/bragging rights etc.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Oh and I would have gotten my family out of the Ukraine along with myself. The idea that Ukraine is some beacon of freedom and opportunity worth fighting for is laughable. A concept lost on you and other Ukraine war fans.

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So yes, you'd turn tail and have over your home and belongings. Good to know. How very brave of you.

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This is a great example of being courageous through others. An example of true cowardice.

Look I refused the covid vaccine and was fired for it. I constantly stood up against corporate DEI policies often directly talking to upper management. I hope and pray I have the courage to be courageous when God calls but I don't pretend to be Rambo when I haven't even been in a real fight. The fact is many men may think they would be Winters when reality is they are more likely to be Blythes.

Teslag said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Teslag said:

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Yep there is 0 historical precedence of Russia being known as a military force that starts out slow and then builds up like a freight train. That is of course if you ignore all the major wars Russia has fought.

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Like Afghanistan?

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So does that make Zelensky Bin Laden? Also how great of a place is Afghanistan to live right now following that conflict. Oh terrible. But yeah we Americans really helped out the Afghanis by empowering a brutal political organization to control their country instead of evil Putin. What a joke.

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Keep moving those goalposts. Russia hasn't won a modern war. Since WW2 they have dicked around in regional affairs and suffered some success and some failure. Just like us. This isn't 1942 anymore. They can't just throw a bunch of drunks at the problem and hope it goes away. They need to win with modern offensive weapons, with cohesive tactics, logistics, and coordination. They have shown zero ability to do that at all. You keep accusing others of ignoring realty and you can't even delve into any specifics when it comes to what and how Russia is going to take all of Ukraine. Which it now appears you support.

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America hasn't won a modern war either. Unless you count Iraq conflicts which would be stupid. Maybe ISIS, which was just an enemy one regime of our government created that another destroyed.

Oh no the "you want Russia to win smear". So effective.

From your linked article...

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It goes without saying that in a war of attrition, more artillery ammunition and hardware is always needed and needs to be steadily supplied. Western support of Ukraine certainly should continue as there is still the prospect that the counteroffensive will make gains. But soldiers fighting on the frontline we spoke to are all too aware that lack of progress is often more due to force employment, poor tactics, lack of coordination between units, bureaucratic red tape/infighting, Soviet style thinking etc. ... and Russians putting up stiff resistance.

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Asked to sum up his assessment, Gady told us the following.
"It's a grinding fight characterized by high rates of attrition with Ukrainian forces making incremental gains," he said. "There is still the potential for Ukrainian military success."
Gady said that he and his colleagues will be providing additional insights from their journey in the future.
We will certainly take note and provide any worthy highlights.

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Once again, ol' cut'n'paste Nortex hopes no one actually reads his linked articles.

Thinking a country has a right to fight against an invasion: cowardice

Refusing a shot: true courage

GAC06 said:

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Thinking a country has a right to fight against an invasion: cowardice

Refusing a shot: true courage

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And there we have it. The 5 trolls of Ukraine War have all made their appearance. Special day.

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"you want Russia to win smear"

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Dude you literally said the best outcome was for Russia to win.

Name calling has taken over. Cowards and trolls unless you want Russia to win.

texagbeliever said:

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I never advocated for turning the other cheek. I just don't advocate for fighting a war when the winners will be big banks and billionaires who will buy up Ukraine on the cheap. You seem to confuse being strategic and getting the best possible outcome with surrender. Meanwhile you hold out for some mythical gallant victory that will not happen and at this point will amount to little gain.

Ukraine is losing its culture and ethos by losing its population through death, low birth rates and mass emigration. Winning the war gives them rights to a wasteland they will be applying to other countries to escape. Not to mention the fascist regime they now live under.

Sorry I live in real world. I get war is ugly. I also get that humans are ugly and evil especially those in power. I can't understand the whole war should be nice and honorable crowd. It is nonsensical to the actual idea of war. Oh kill each other but only kill these people and do it humanely.

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Yes. Yes you did. You want them to just walk away as if nothing has happened to preserve what they have left. We get it.

What you don't seem to get is that this is the second major invasion and land grab by Russia in less than ten years. If, as you say, Ukraine is dying, then allowing Russia to take that land, again, is only going give them license to try again in another decade or less for more, AFTER they have built up more infrastructure to support another invasion, replenished their losses in aircraft and armor, and replenished their munitions stocks. Giving in because you think "big banks and billionaires will win" is strategic stupidity. If Ukraine doesn't win now, there is no way they're getting anything back, ever. You're not advocating being strategic, you're advocating being cowardly while performing mental gymnastics to try to label resistance in the face of invasion as cowardly. Please, spare us the hypocrisy.

texagbeliever said:

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Teslag said:

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Meanwhile you hold out for some mythical gallant victory

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Who is saying this? Ukraine has already achieved a sizeable victory by simply existing today. I think the most realistic outcome for them is holding on to what they have plus a little more. They will never retake Crimea. They will never retake most of the Donbass.

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That's like saying A&M won when they were up by 35 at half time. Oh the sumlin Era and the many scars it left.

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LOL

Ukraine are the ones who have come back from the brink of disaster and the equivalent of being down 35... Nice try though.

There is no doubt Ukraine is taking back ground but from what is being reported it is coming at a great cost of equipment and men. They do not have the resources to keep going by themselves so they have to keep the west interested. In the end this war will prove to be one of the biggest money laundering schemes ever

People have profited off war for thousands of years. That doesn't mean that all war is unnecessary or unjust. It's just the way it is.

Teslag said:

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People have profited off war for thousands of years. That doesn't mean that all war is unnecessary or unjust. It's just the way it is.

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This. If someone thinks this war is bad because money making, corruption, and profiteering, they should go take a look at WWII. Truman made his name on stamping out profiteering and corruption before and during the war. I guess we should have stopped supporting the French and Brits and told them to be brave and just let the Nazis have half of Europe to preserve the other half.

P.U.T.U said:

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There is no doubt Ukraine is taking back ground but from what is being reported it is coming at a great cost of equipment and men. They do not have the resources to keep going by themselves so they have to keep the west interested. In the end this war will prove to be one of the biggest money laundering schemes ever

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First, it is not simply about a few acres here and there. The Russians clearly have what they term 'crumple zones' in their defenses, and to prevent losses in their own forces deliberately pull back when cannon fodder infantry attacks so that the artillery can do it's job and annihilate them instead of just fighting in trenches. It's anything but dumb, on their part, and the Ukrainians, clearly at a manpower disadvantage/shortage, are only losing in this endeavor of 'mosquito attacks.'

Second, it's not even clear if they are net gaining territory, as the Russians are counter-attacking at various points.

Third, it's also not clear how they are winning economically. For instance, they hit a bridge, shutting down one lane for a few weeks. The Russians have depleted the UFA air defenses in key ports now, eliminated their ability to export grain (or anything else) by closing sea lanes, and by doing so raised the price of their grain on the market. Who won by that UFA attack that was so widely praised on another thread? LOL.

Finally; look at the map. Propaganda aside, it's basically static since the mythologized spring offensive began in mid summer.



Oh, and a last point, some of the intent of the war was not just money laundering, but to help Joe Biden's Chinese allies/paymasters by destabilizing Europe, spiking world inflation, and assisting their BRICS alliance. It's worked quite well for them, I'd say, and since the war started, Russia's oil revenues are probably up 50% vs. the 18 months before. Genius, America-first strategy here by Nuland-Power-Sullivan-Xiden et al.

You post thoughtful comments. Sorry for feeding the trolls and taking away from good analysis.

Thx, some of it is tough to avoid, I get it. It can be worth a chuckle, without doubt. Hey, it draws eyeballs and makes them/others think, hopefully. But of course I 'hope no one clicks on my links.'

You literally just posted a linked article that said Ukraine was slowly retaking ground but now say you aren't sure they are.

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So you think that Ukraine should just give Russia whatever they want to end the war? Where is the line in which Ukraine should reject and keep fighting?

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Why do you keep dodging this question?