Russia/Ukraine from Another Perspective (Relaunch Part Deux)

477,146 Views | 9113 Replies | Last: 6 hrs ago by nortex97
PlaneCrashGuy
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GAC06 said:

Has Poland invaded western Ukraine yet?


Isn't there a thread for updates from the front line? Or is this trolling?
I'm not sure if people genuinely believe someone is going to say, "Wow, if some people say I'm a moron for not believing this, it clearly must be true."

It's not much a persuasive argument. It really just sounds like a bunch of miniature dachshunds barking because the first one one barked when it thought it heard something.
J. Walter Weatherman
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nortex97 said:

Yes, and today Bandera (Nazi) is a national hero in "Ukraine." He is widely loathed in Eastern/Southern Ukraine today, but the nazi-Nuland-CIA-puppet-state-government of Kiev made his annual celebration of life a huge holiday in 2018, celebrated on new years day.

It's ok. Sophisticated war planners/historians know he was a 'good' nazi.


If you think that's bad, wait until you hear about this dictator that launched an unprovoked invasion and has spent the last year bombing civilians.
Ag with kids
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Teslag said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Teslag said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

Both your map and mine show Ukraine has shrunk. What color is Crimea that you see? Where do you think you can get off by spiking that ball? Either map shows a losing Ukelele.


Incorrect. Ukraine has grown in size since this date a year ago.


A year ago, Ukraine had already shrunk. You're twisting yourself intro pretzels to avoid that reality. If you actually believe they will recapture Crimea, just say that so I know you need a permanent ignore and your tough guy bit is not a troll.


What you did yesterday doesn't matter in war. For the past year and present Ukraine has been driving on Russia and taking back more and more each day. That's all that matters.


What you did yesterday doesn't matter in war. Let me tell you about the things Ukraine did yesterday and the 364 yesterdays before that so you can understand why Ukraine is winning.

You contradict yourself in the same sentence. I can't believe you're not trolling.


You do realize the point in war is to take land and defend it right? Today, and for the past year, Ukraine is taking land and Russia can't defend it.

Russia is getting smaller with every passing day while Ukraine gets larger and larger. And nothing in Russias ****ty stash of old weapons can stop that.
But they're throwing 100 T-90s a month at Ukraine, now...
Ag with kids
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nortex97 said:

docb said:

I mean to post a video by a well known fraud that has dated back to 2014 shows just how desperate this thread is. Seriously, it's somewhat comical at this point.
"OMG you posted a video of a guy Ukrainians have accused of faking stuff once, walking around with Russian soldiers. Hilariously desperate!"

Good Lord, there isn't a blue and yellow tag on all news/reports from Ukraine. And Taiwan doesn't need armor or artillery to take on China, right? LOL.

Anyway, from a comment from the update today I linked to, relative to a possible/eventual Russian attack vs. the 'mosquito' suicide squad attacks the Ukes are using:

Quote:

I've covered it before but intend to cover it at length again in the near future because the fact is, Russia does not have any magical advantages over Ukraine that would allow them to successfully conduct assaults / offensives. Both sides are inhibited by the same exact issues of: 1. ubiquitous mining and 2. complete drone overwatch on every front.

This means that Russia's own ability to *truly* conduct a breakthrough offensive in the future is also in question.

The one big advantage Russia has that may mitigate this is that Russia is the god of artillery. Artillery alone could allow them to decimate Ukraine's lines little by little, just by virtue of sheer attrition (well, this is in conjunction to airpower and some light assaulting as well). But in terms of full out maneuver warfare with massive breakthroughs to the operational rear like in WW2, it's simply not possible. It's not going to happen for ANYONE. The U.S. themselves would not be able to do it in this environment.

I was saving this to post in an upcoming article but you can get first dibs on the preview which outlines many of the points I alluded to. From respected Russian analyst site Starshe Edda:

"Older than the Edda: "Having been watching the SVO for almost a year and a half, anyone sees a certain impasse in military thought in the field of offensive. And this applies equally to us and Americans. It becomes very difficult to break through the prepared defense line to the operational depth with a concentrated blow of a mechanized fist. The sky is completely controlled by UAV operators, artillery, aviation, ATGMs, kamikaze drones, minefields, take out attacking formations very quickly and in fact only small infantry units can break through the defense line, under the cover of tanks operating from the maximum distance, or even with a ZOP in general. I will make a reservation that we are talking about a war between technically approximately equal opponents.

Assault detachments can break through the line, but only to a tactical depth. They take one strip of fortifications, get hit by artillery, and at this time the enemy is already equipping another, just a few hundred meters away. This is a typical situation for WWII, when even chemical weapons and the first tanks had a short-term effect.

Under such circumstances, the main role begins to play the destruction of the enemy on the front line and in the rear, as well as war fatigue. In this case, we have an absolute advantage: Ukraine has already carried out several waves of mobilization, and now in some areas it has completely switched to a total mob. Given the really very large losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Kiev's main reserve, that is, cannon fodder, may soon run out. Therefore, we should not wait for deep breakthroughs with tank wedges, we are waging a war of attrition, first of all, to deplete the enemy's manpower."
I would encourage folks to go back and look at Simplicius' update documenting via video the charge that Ukrainians are forcing POW's to serve as mine clearing tools. The 'good guys' Xiden is backing militarily are certainly guilty of some not-nice acts.

Not-bad analyses from a month and a half ago about Russia's plausible strategy: they don't want 'all' of Ukraine.

Quote:

So Russia mobilized, more than tripling its forces in Ukraine. But then nothing much happened. Huh? Why no major offensive? Executive summary: occupation of Ukraine would be ruinously expensive.
Some say that R is waiting for the weather to be perfect before they launch a big offensive. But there is a better explanation. Russia doesn't want to take over the rest of Ukraine. It would be a huge liability.

Even before the war it was the poorest country in Europe. Now it is much worse. Not only that, the war has caused it to take on debts impossible to repay. It is a strange tradition that the conqueror assumes the debts of the conquered. Then there is the half trillion dollar rebuilding cost. Whew! But even if none of these things were true, occupying a big chunk of Ukraine would be a disaster. The hostile and violent population would be the source of an endless series of covert terrorist acts funded lavishly by the West. It would be a lot like the US occupation of Iraq but worse. So...it won't happen. Russia can't afford it. Not even close.

The US says its goal is "to weaken Russia." To this end, they should strive mightily to get Russia to conquer and occupy Ukraine. By golly, foreign policy bigshot John Mearsheimer has said this, almost word for word. [It's always nice to have confirmation from experts.]

So how can the US provoke Russia into conquering more territory?
Meanwhile, Euro aid budgets elsewhere are being gutted, driving more and more dependent countries abroad into the arms of the CCP.
Russia is the "god of artillery"...
nortex97
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I'd say 10 to 1 is a pretty heavy advantage, though I don't really like the divine reference. Most of the M777's are supposedly already lost.

UFA is as Biden stated this weekend, so desperate for ammo they are now going to get cluster munitions (as another hail mary).

There's zero reasonable basis to conclude the UFA is at anything other than a severe disadvantage in FA.
fka ftc
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Did Biden trip on the one red carpeted step he took
Into 10 Downing today? British media has not been kind to him leading up to the visit. I hate ****ing embarrassment that dude is.
P.U.T.U
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Not an apples to apples comparison since Russia's are much more inaccurate since the barrels have had so many rounds fired through them and have more duds since they have some from WW1 and WW2. But per the old Stalin saying Quantity has a quality of its own.

Artillery works much better with combined arms, neither side is doing this well but Ukraine is doing it slightly better.
LarryElder
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Why Ukraine Is Struggling to Puncture Russia's Formidable Defenses | Watch (msn.com)
nortex97
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P.U.T.U said:

Not an apples to apples comparison since Russia's are much more inaccurate since the barrels have had so many rounds fired through them and have more duds since they have some from WW1 and WW2. But per the old Stalin saying Quantity has a quality of its own.

Artillery works much better with combined arms, neither side is doing this well but Ukraine is doing it slightly better.
The Russians are firing all sorts of ammo from any number of sources/stockpiles, including Iranian (and Pakistani/likely Chinese). Sure, some is very old. I'm not real convinced both sides haven't substantially improved fire control systems incorporating drones etc. Even just their (mutual) propaganda reflects this. The question is how widespread it really is effectively employed, and how often. Combined arms matters more on the attack.

The Russians were again at a severe disadvantage, though, early in the conflict with very limited space-based surveillance (only a handful of modernish spy sats) but have improved there dramatically, it is believed.

Aside: Brest-Litovsk map (10:50 mark) shows land transferred from Russia into…border states in 1918. Again some of this conflict (today) is all about what date one wants to draw as a 'this is the map' moment. Much of this premise is just misinformed, imho.

Teslag
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Quote:

The Russians were again at a severe disadvantage, though, early in the conflict with very limited space-based surveillance (only a handful of modernish spy sats) but have improved there dramatically, it is believed.


Who believes this?
PlaneCrashGuy
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Was the submarine captain holding a gun?
I'm not sure if people genuinely believe someone is going to say, "Wow, if some people say I'm a moron for not believing this, it clearly must be true."

It's not much a persuasive argument. It really just sounds like a bunch of miniature dachshunds barking because the first one one barked when it thought it heard something.
Ag with kids
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nortex97 said:

I'd say 10 to 1 is a pretty heavy advantage, though I don't really like the divine reference. Most of the M777's are supposedly already lost.

UFA is as Biden stated this weekend, so desperate for ammo they are now going to get cluster munitions (as another hail mary).

There's zero reasonable basis to conclude the UFA is at anything other than a severe disadvantage in FA.
Quote:

But in terms of full out maneuver warfare with massive breakthroughs to the operational rear like in WW2, it's simply not possible. It's not going to happen for ANYONE. The U.S. themselves would not be able to do it in this environment.
How about THIS gem from that same paragraph...

Ag with kids
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Teslag said:

Quote:

The Russians were again at a severe disadvantage, though, early in the conflict with very limited space-based surveillance (only a handful of modernish spy sats) but have improved there dramatically, it is believed.


Who believes this?
Seems like he did...
nortex97
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(Note: John F Kerry, who only looks French, served in Vietnam/Cambodia, btw).




ABATTBQ11
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1. What Samantha Power and others were unhappy with was the reversal of a decision to bag the use of cluster munitions with a dud rate higher than 1%, not cluster munitions in general. Hence the, "with unacceptable dud rates," qualifier

2. The FBI's ineptitude has little to do with issues at hand. If you'd read the article beyond the headline, you would know that they unknowingly worked with Russian collaborators to flag pro-Ukrainian Twitter accounts. What they did was stupid, but also par for the course.

3. John Kerry is and always has been an idiot. Still irrelevant because no one other than him and Greta buys this line of thinking.

4. Yes. We do need to ramp up production of munitions to meet current needs and replenish stockpiles. In many ways, it is better we do this now while supporting Ukraine than find we need to do it while at war ourselves. As your sources like to complain, it will take a long time to ramp up production now that we need it. Even if we had given Ukraine nothing, we would have been screwed in a war with China because of our low munitions production capabilities. If we can't support Ukraine in a limited conflict, how could we have ever expected to supply our own military in a wider scale conflict?

5. NATO's bylaws do not allow for adding a nation currently in conflict. Ukraine can't join NATO until this conflict is over, though they could start the process. Even if they could, Article 5 would certainly not apply. The author of this tweet is a fear mongering moron.
nortex97
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ABATTBQ11 said:

1. What Samantha Power and others were unhappy with was the reversal of a decision to bag the use of cluster munitions with a dud rate higher than 1%, not cluster munitions in general. Hence the, "with unacceptable dud rates," qualifier

2. The FBI's ineptitude has little to do with issues at hand. If you'd read the article beyond the headline, you would know that they unknowingly worked with Russian collaborators to flag pro-Ukrainian Twitter accounts. What they did was stupid, but also par for the course.

3. John Kerry is and always has been an idiot. Still irrelevant because no one other than him and Greta buys this line of thinking.

4. Yes. We do need to ramp up production of munitions to meet current needs and replenish stockpiles. In many ways, it is better we do this now while supporting Ukraine than find we need to do it while at war ourselves. As your sources like to complain, it will take a long time to ramp up production now that we need it. Even if we had given Ukraine nothing, we would have been screwed in a war with China because of our low munitions production capabilities. If we can't support Ukraine in a limited conflict, how could we have ever expected to supply our own military in a wider scale conflict?

5. NATO's bylaws do not allow for adding a nation currently in conflict. Ukraine can't join NATO until this conflict is over, though they could start the process. Even if they could, Article 5 would certainly not apply. The author of this tweet is a fear mongering moron.
  • What stockpiles were improved to reduce dud rates, exactly, that are now being given to Ukraine? LOL, do you have any data on that, or are you in fact just making that up/believing propaganda again?
  • The FBI is inept. We shouldn't work with any foreign or domestic powers to censor anyone's speech online unless it is illegal here.
  • John F Kerry, who served in Vietnam/Cambodia, is emblematic of the idiocy of our current administration relative to this war, which he was blathering about in what I cited. Only someone inept/treasonous/senile like the diapered one would employ him in any kind of capacity.
  • We wouldn't need to ramp up any production if we weren't stoking a huge artillery battle in Ukraine for no reason. We shouldn't also get into any war with China, or have a president compromised by his business dealings with them, arresting whistle blowers who were informants about this.
  • Nato can change bylaws/rules whenever they want. You might note some of the press releases/statements from folks like Jens Steltenberg about admitting Ukraine soon. Fortunately, as stated elsewhere, Zelensky is mad he is not being given immediate enthronement, and is…blaming Biden/nato. Good, that will further endear him.





docb
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Any new Patrick Lancaster updates?
YouBet
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5. As previously reported, there are factions including the NATO leader arguing to suspend NATO bylaws in order to admit them now. Will they? Hopefully not.

But it's currently being debated in inner circles.
Teslag
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Germany just announced another massive aid package for Ukraine despite some on this thread pushing the "coalition is fracturing" bit.
nortex97
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docb said:

Any new Patrick Lancaster updates?
I haven't checked but what of the video that I posted was, in your opinion, inaccurate? I haven't subscribed yet but on the bases of all the interest in his work I am tempted to provide those updates more frequently now.

Agent Zelensky revealed.

Further:

Quote:

Exchanging 6 men for long-term access through Bospor, economic co-operation with Turkey and solution of Syrian crisis? That's a good deal. Maybe that grain deal will be killed too.
Hint: the 'solution' to the Syrian crisis very likely means destabilizing Europe by pushing Turkey into the EU.

MEANWHILE:



docb
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About as accurate as Joseph Goebbels but amusing nonetheless.
No Spin Ag
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Teslag said:

Germany just announced another massive aid package for Ukraine despite some on this thread pushing the "coalition is fracturing" bit.


If what's happening to Europe and NATO is "fracturing", then give me an extra helping of it.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
nortex97
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No Spin Ag said:

Teslag said:

Germany just announced another massive aid package for Ukraine despite some on this thread pushing the "coalition is fracturing" bit.


If what's happening to Europe and NATO is "fracturing", then give me an extra helping of it.
Trolling I realize is permitted on this thread but no, that has nothing to do with the fracturing (Spain/UK), nor Zelensky's temper tantrum about not being granted membership nor a timeline today.
Teslag
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You won't find a single anti-Putin poster on this site that thinks Ukraine should be admitted to NATO at this time. It's a pro-Putin group bit.
Teslag
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Oh and Russia got smaller again today while Ukraine got bigger. Again.
PlaneCrashGuy
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Has anyone seen Zelensky punching air? To be a fly on the wall in that room
I'm not sure if people genuinely believe someone is going to say, "Wow, if some people say I'm a moron for not believing this, it clearly must be true."

It's not much a persuasive argument. It really just sounds like a bunch of miniature dachshunds barking because the first one one barked when it thought it heard something.
LarryElder
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docb said:

About as accurate as Joseph Goebbels but amusing nonetheless.
Well UKE does a know a lot about naziisims
ABATTBQ11
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For an isolationist, you sure are concerned about Europe...
nortex97
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ABATTBQ11 said:

For an isolationist, you sure are concerned about Europe...
For someone who pimps Biden's war in Ukraine supporting nazi's so much, you sure are worried about my little opinion a lot. Hint; I am not an isolationist.
Teslag
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You misspelled Xiden. Please don't break character.
PlaneCrashGuy
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nortex97 said:

No Spin Ag said:

Teslag said:

Germany just announced another massive aid package for Ukraine despite some on this thread pushing the "coalition is fracturing" bit.


If what's happening to Europe and NATO is "fracturing", then give me an extra helping of it.
Trolling I realize is permitted on this thread


I'm not sure if people genuinely believe someone is going to say, "Wow, if some people say I'm a moron for not believing this, it clearly must be true."

It's not much a persuasive argument. It really just sounds like a bunch of miniature dachshunds barking because the first one one barked when it thought it heard something.
J. Walter Weatherman
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

nortex97 said:

No Spin Ag said:

Teslag said:

Germany just announced another massive aid package for Ukraine despite some on this thread pushing the "coalition is fracturing" bit.


If what's happening to Europe and NATO is "fracturing", then give me an extra helping of it.
Trolling I realize is permitted on this thread





Correct, as is blatant Russian propaganda.
nortex97
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Teslag said:

You misspelled Xiden. Please don't break character.
Neither you, nor abattbq11 will even admit he is senile/suffers from dementia. I try to be respectful in my posting, but that is…amazing. Leader of the free world, ladies and gents. Xiden?



"I've not seen that…"
PlaneCrashGuy
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J. Walter Weatherman said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

nortex97 said:

No Spin Ag said:

Teslag said:

Germany just announced another massive aid package for Ukraine despite some on this thread pushing the "coalition is fracturing" bit.


If what's happening to Europe and NATO is "fracturing", then give me an extra helping of it.
Trolling I realize is permitted on this thread





Correct, as is blatant Russian propaganda.


There's only a rule against 1 of those 2 things though, so you're not really answering the question.

I award you 1 virtual pat on the top of the head for your effort.
I'm not sure if people genuinely believe someone is going to say, "Wow, if some people say I'm a moron for not believing this, it clearly must be true."

It's not much a persuasive argument. It really just sounds like a bunch of miniature dachshunds barking because the first one one barked when it thought it heard something.
J. Walter Weatherman
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

J. Walter Weatherman said:

PlaneCrashGuy said:

nortex97 said:

No Spin Ag said:

Teslag said:

Germany just announced another massive aid package for Ukraine despite some on this thread pushing the "coalition is fracturing" bit.


If what's happening to Europe and NATO is "fracturing", then give me an extra helping of it.
Trolling I realize is permitted on this thread





Correct, as is blatant Russian propaganda.


There's only a rule against 1 of those 2 things though, so you're not really answering the question.

I award you 1 virtual pat on the top of the head for your effort.


Lol there is definitely a "rumor, unconfirmed or false information" flag. Try again.
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