"since pride month" I spit my drink out

nortex97 said:

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Agreed. "He shoulda gone to the UN Security Council to resolve this matter." Is the single most absurd thing I have seen on this website at least since gay pride month.

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I can think of others…

"Russia is producing 100 T-90's per month"

"A real leader would immediately surrender to an invading nation so he can save their lives"

Teslag said:

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It's like I tell my kids when they are fighting. I don't care about the reasons, whichever kid throws the first punch is in the wrong.

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Seems like smart parenting. Do you take money from the other kids and give it to the kid who got punched then join in "stacking bodies" of the puncher until they are no more?

There is a big difference between saying Putin "was wrong for invading" and "he must be destroyed no matter the costs and anyone who does his bidding should be slaughtered".

Maybe one day you will see the fallacy in your comments and thoughts, but I do not hold much hope for that. In the interim, probably should stick to doing high voltage electrical work on your home.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting every enemy soldier on the battlefield to be destroyed. They can easily save themselves and go home.

Quote:

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Head of the Lvov military enlistment office: 80% of Ukrainians do not want to fight.

About 20% of the required number of military personnel voluntarily come to the military enlistment offices. Half of them are contract workers, said the head of the Lvov regional territorial centre Alexander Tishchenko.

According to him, in order to fulfill the plan, military commissars are handing out summons on the streets and at home.

"If there are no such searches, sending for clarification of data, then mobilization may be under threat," explained Tishchenko.

Thus, we come to the conclusion that 80% of those mobilized in the Armed Forces initially did not want to participate in the conflict, which percentage of them are "sofa warriors", and who is the ideological opponent of the Kiev regime - time will tell.

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As Ukraine strategically shifts to a strategy that will lead to heavier Ukrainian losses.

Why did the Russian industry only start to work after many months of war?

The Russian military complex faced difficulties after the collapse of the Soviet Union, and this crisis lasted for more than 20 years.
Yes, 90% of the Armored Repair Plants administered by Rostec were in… pic.twitter.com/pVsfX5h4TY

— Patricia Marins (@pati_marins64) July 5, 2023

Quote:

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The three biggest Russian factories, Uralvagonzavod, Omsktransmash and Kurganmashzavod, are producing intensely, and that's not all.

Uraltransmash and the Armored Repair Plants, consisting of eight units, are working at least 12 hours a day, but not yet in "war mode."

For example, Kurganmashzavod had around 1,700 workers but hired another 1,000 last year and another 1,200 recently.

During the last few months, the Russian industry has delivered dozens of helicopters and jets to African countries like Mali, Uganda, Togo, and Zimbabwe.

This suggests that any shortage of electronics is in the past.

Recently, Uralvagonzavod set 100% of its production exclusively for tanks, while Omsktransmash isn't producing tanks anymore and has instead shifted its focus to the Tos-1 and the modernization of T80s and T62Ms, as well as some artillery, including the D30, 2s4, and 2s5.

Kurganmashzavod is working intensely on IFVs like the BMP3M, and at least five repair armored plants are refurbishing other IFVs and APCs. Uraltransmash is producing Akatsiya, Malka, and Msta S artillery and has already delivered two batches of Msta S this year.

The number of missiles launched against Kiev is another example of the kick in production for the Russian aerospace industry.

All evidence suggests that the Russian military complex can produce/refurbish many hundreds of tanks and probably thousands of IFVs, APCs, and artilleries annually.

We must consider 14 units producing (not including the units working in indirect production like the "techzavods").

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This attempt to put a positive spin on the Ukrainian Counteroffensive is actually a series of enormous admissions:
1) “the Offensive has failed” (call it the 1st Phase if you want, it’s the counteroffensive to date)
2) “NATO Military Tactics do not work against Russian Defenses”… https://t.co/OxOuSqg3Cq

— David Sacks (@DavidSacks) July 6, 2023

The failure of Western governments to endorse or echo Ukrainian claims speaks volumes. Implicit message to Zelensky: stand down. https://t.co/SoMQkpXrmN

— David Sacks (@DavidSacks) July 6, 2023

Update: Newsweek provides more details on CIA operations inside Ukraine:

"It's a tricky balancing act—the CIA being very active in the war while not contradicting the Biden administration's central pledge, which is that there are no American boots on the ground," says a senior…

— David Sacks (@DavidSacks) July 6, 2023

Clown world.

Wait, so they are now super serious about production? Does this mean 200 T90's per month?

Anyone with tripe digit IQ scores always knew Russia had this one.

Russia is getting bigger, Ukraine is getting smaller, and there's nothing we can do to stop it.

My how the mighty have fallen.

Usually misspellings are a sign that your source is an idiot or FOS. HTH

And…the war is 'good for business!'

JP Morgan, BlackRock, and the neoliberal establishment are salivating over a profit bonanza in post-war Ukraine. “The war is clearly good for business: indeed, the greater the destruction, the greater the opportunities for reconstruction.”https://t.co/fkGnhTjxyD

— Robert F. Kennedy Jr (@RobertKennedyJr) July 6, 2023

Quote:

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From certain perspectives, the war is clearly good for business: indeed, the greater the destruction, the greater the opportunities for reconstruction. At Davos this year, Larry Fink, CEO of BlackRock, said he hoped the initiative would turn the country into a "beacon of capitalism". David Solomon, CEO of Goldman Sachs, also spoke cheerily of Ukraine's post-war future. "There is no question," he said, "that as you rebuild, there will be good economic incentives for real return and real investment."

Seeing opportunity amid the tragedy, 500 global businesses from 42 countries have already signed the Ukraine Business Compact "to help realise its huge potential" or secure their slice of the Ukrainian pie. "Most are standing on the sidelines for now, given the security threat," the FT reported. "But there are already companies on the cusp of moving in especially in the low-hanging-fruit industries of construction and materials, agricultural processing and logistics."

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“We found $4.5B worth of payments from the US Agency for International Development to pay off Ukraine’s sovereign debt. Much of which is owned by the global investment firm BlackRock.” @MaxBlumenthal found the receipts. US taxpayers are getting hosed. pic.twitter.com/GN4k4VVzbG

— Marty Bent (@MartyBent) July 2, 2023

The CIA and military contractors have been there since before the war, several former operators working for NGOs saw them there and they weren't just training Ukraine troops from the rear. They were training from the front and dictating tactics.

Teslag said:

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It's like I tell my kids when they are fighting. I don't care about the reasons, whichever kid throws the first punch is in the wrong.

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Here's a hypothetical for you.

You and your wife go to a bar. Two men sitting next to you call your wife a dirty ***** and offer her $25 each for a Lewinsky in the bathroom. (pretty provocative, right?)

Do you tell her to go make the $50 and stay for some drinks or do you throw the first punch?

If you say "we'd walk away" and yet they follow you to your Model S and keep provoking a fight, do you throw the first punch or just keep taking it?

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Anyone with tripe digit IQ scores always knew Russia had this one.

Russia is getting bigger, Ukraine is getting smaller, and there's nothing we can do to stop it.

My how the mighty have fallen.

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Yet Ukraine continues to gain land, and is now closing in on Bakhmut, Russias lone prize in the last year. Of course, one day Russia will release their super secret cache of modern weapons. Then Ukraine will be sorry.

Teslag said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Anyone with tripe digit IQ scores always knew Russia had this one.

Russia is getting bigger, Ukraine is getting smaller, and there's nothing we can do to stop it.

My how the mighty have fallen.

---

Yet Ukraine continues to gain land, and is now closing in on Bakhmut, Russias lone prize in the last year. Of course, one day Russia will release their super secret cache of modern weapons. Then Ukraine will be sorry.

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Well, they should have around 1200 BRAND NEW T-90s.

Teslag said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Anyone with tripe digit IQ scores always knew Russia had this one.

Russia is getting bigger, Ukraine is getting smaller, and there's nothing we can do to stop it.

My how the mighty have fallen.

---

Yet Ukraine continues to gain land, and is now closing in on Bakhmut, Russias lone prize in the last year. Of course, one day Russia will release their super secret cache of modern weapons. Then Ukraine will be sorry.

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Ukraine is smaller, not larger than it was two years ago.

What a dumb **** thing to write.

GAC06 said:

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Usually misspellings are a sign that your source is an idiot or FOS. HTH

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Look the other half of the dynamic duo protecting UKEs honor on the internet lol

https://caliber.az/en/post/175621/

Russian and Hungarian media are reporting that Rostec: Uralvagonzavod has changed its entire assembly line to adapt to the sole production of
T-90m with the goal of reaching 1600+ T-90 per year.

"Russia Begins Mass-Tank Production

In a press release to the public, Rostec… pic.twitter.com/0OBchWEYbX

— UkraineWarVid (@UkraineWarVid) July 1, 2023

They seem to be closer to 70/month, including -72/80/90/14's. Some are refurbished, true enough, and they are also using some older models like T-54's etc. as 'IED's' or fixed 'pill box' artillery style platforms along a defensive line. I don't think there's any doubt they have ramped up production significantly.

I know certain folks like to hang onto the 100/month prognostication, which was just their published number and I really think it's probably more like 70/month (counting modernish models only), but you're welcome to keep harping on it. Russia does inflate various numbers for propaganda, without doubt, but usually with a baseline that is more believable.

Both sides are still also using older T-60-series and 70-series tanks, which would make sense as well if they can use them to advance through minefields using remotely operated versions.

I love how most of your sources are totally random, pro-Russia Twitter accounts. It's like you go out looking for confirmation bias and user or for exactly that

ABATTBQ11 said:

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I love how most of your sources are totally random, pro-Russia Twitter accounts. It's like you go out looking for confirmation bias and user or for exactly that

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Thank you for noticing/following!

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Teslag said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Anyone with tripe digit IQ scores always knew Russia had this one.

Russia is getting bigger, Ukraine is getting smaller, and there's nothing we can do to stop it.

My how the mighty have fallen.

---

Yet Ukraine continues to gain land, and is now closing in on Bakhmut, Russias lone prize in the last year. Of course, one day Russia will release their super secret cache of modern weapons. Then Ukraine will be sorry.

---

Ukraine is smaller, not larger than it was two years ago.

What a dumb **** thing to write.

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Yet Ukraine is larger than it was a little over a year ago.

I wonder why that is…

Teslag said:

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There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting every enemy soldier on the battlefield to be destroyed. They can easily save themselves and go home.

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Stack em high as you say. Since you are teaching you kids to be enemies of one another, should work out fine when they become adults.

Do you tell the kid who threw the first punch he needs to find a new home?

Logic escapes you, often.

nortex97 said:

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https://caliber.az/en/post/175621/

Russian and Hungarian media are reporting that Rostec: Uralvagonzavod has changed its entire assembly line to adapt to the sole production of
T-90m with the goal of reaching 1600+ T-90 per year.

"Russia Begins Mass-Tank Production

In a press release to the public, Rostec… pic.twitter.com/0OBchWEYbX

— UkraineWarVid (@UkraineWarVid) July 1, 2023

They seem to be closer to 70/month, including -72/80/90/14's. Some are refurbished, true enough, and they are also using some older models like T-54's etc. as 'IED's' or fixed 'pill box' artillery style platforms along a defensive line. I don't think there's any doubt they have ramped up production significantly.

I know certain folks like to hang onto the 100/month prognostication, which was just their published number and I really think it's probably more like 70/month (counting modernish models only), but you're welcome to keep harping on it. Russia does inflate various numbers for propaganda, without doubt, but usually with a baseline that is more believable.

Both sides are still also using older T-60-series and 70-series tanks, which would make sense as well if they can use them to advance through minefields using remotely operated versions.

---

70 per month is just as laughable as 100 per month.

A nitpick....calling this a Forever War is not really a straw man. The US government has said we will fight this war as long as Zelensky wants us to. They have literally said it's at his discretion on how long we fight.

So our government had made the decision to exit a 20+ year WoT to hop right into another one where a foreign leader is dictating our involvement. Both political parties have said #1 issue for voters is the Ukraine War.

Think about that...we have abdicated a war decision to a foreign leader while congress gaslights the populace and says this is our #1 priority.

You get right to the problem.

People need to try and at least consider they are better by hoodwinked into another forever war.

YouBet said:

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A nitpick....calling this a Forever War is not really a straw man. The US government has said we will fight this war as long as Zelensky wants us to. They have literally said it's at his discretion on how long we fight.

So our government had made the decision to exit a 20+ year WoT to hop right into another one where a foreign leader is dictating our involvement. Both political parties have said #1 issue for voters is the Ukraine War.

Think about that...we have abdicated a war decision to a foreign leader while congress gaslights the populace and says this is our #1 priority.

---

What we say publically and what we see privately are two very distinct things. In private we are more than likely telling Zelensky what our limits are and when peace will be pushed. And to compare this to the WOT is laughable until we have boots on the ground, which won't happen barring Russia doing something really really stupid.

Quote:

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Russia does inflate various numbers for propaganda, without doubt

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You don't say!

Only one of us here is dumb enough to parrot their ridiculous lies though.

They're making so many T-72's, T-80's, T-90's and T-14's that they… (checks notes) are sending T-55's and T-62's. Makes perfect sense. The industrial juggernaut rolls on!

Teslag said:

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YouBet said:

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A nitpick....calling this a Forever War is not really a straw man. The US government has said we will fight this war as long as Zelensky wants us to. They have literally said it's at his discretion on how long we fight.

So our government had made the decision to exit a 20+ year WoT to hop right into another one where a foreign leader is dictating our involvement. Both political parties have said #1 issue for voters is the Ukraine War.

Think about that...we have abdicated a war decision to a foreign leader while congress gaslights the populace and says this is our #1 priority.

---

What we say publically and what we see privately are two very distinct things. In private we are more than likely telling Zelensky what our limits are and when peace will be pushed. And to compare this to the WOT is laughable until we have boots on the ground, which won't happen barring Russia doing something really really stupid.

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I'm comparing the open-ended commitment which we made in WoT; we've done the same here. There have been reports (from WSJ) that we've essentially sabotaged peace deals in the past that Europe wanted to make here.

I also just find it ludicrous that this is our #1 issue as told to us by Congress. It's not remotely my #1 issue and millions of others. It can certainly be in the top ten, but #1? Give me a damn break. Only for the Democrats as long as they are in power and war hawks.

nortex97 said:

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https://caliber.az/en/post/175621/

Russian and Hungarian media are reporting that Rostec: Uralvagonzavod has changed its entire assembly line to adapt to the sole production of
T-90m with the goal of reaching 1600+ T-90 per year.

"Russia Begins Mass-Tank Production

In a press release to the public, Rostec… pic.twitter.com/0OBchWEYbX

— UkraineWarVid (@UkraineWarVid) July 1, 2023

They seem to be closer to 70/month, including -72/80/90/14's. Some are refurbished, true enough, and they are also using some older models like T-54's etc. as 'IED's' or fixed 'pill box' artillery style platforms along a defensive line. I don't think there's any doubt they have ramped up production significantly.

I know certain folks like to hang onto the 100/month prognostication, which was just their published number and I really think it's probably more like 70/month (counting modernish models only), but you're welcome to keep harping on it. Russia does inflate various numbers for propaganda, without doubt, but usually with a baseline that is more believable.

Both sides are still also using older T-60-series and 70-series tanks, which would make sense as well if they can use them to advance through minefields using remotely operated versions.

---

nortex97 said:

---

https://caliber.az/en/post/175621/

Russian and Hungarian media are reporting that Rostec: Uralvagonzavod has changed its entire assembly line to adapt to the sole production of
T-90m with the goal of reaching 1600+ T-90 per year.

"Russia Begins Mass-Tank Production

In a press release to the public, Rostec… pic.twitter.com/0OBchWEYbX

— UkraineWarVid (@UkraineWarVid) July 1, 2023

They seem to be closer to 70/month, including -72/80/90/14's. Some are refurbished, true enough, and they are also using some older models like T-54's etc. as 'IED's' or fixed 'pill box' artillery style platforms along a defensive line. I don't think there's any doubt they have ramped up production significantly.

I know certain folks like to hang onto the 100/month prognostication, which was just their published number and I really think it's probably more like 70/month (counting modernish models only), but you're welcome to keep harping on it. Russia does inflate various numbers for propaganda, without doubt, but usually with a baseline that is more believable.

Both sides are still also using older T-60-series and 70-series tanks, which would make sense as well if they can use them to advance through minefields using remotely operated versions.

---

Totally not Russian propaganda...

Quote:

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Russia will produce 1,500 tanks this year. This was stated by Deputy Chairman of the Security Council of the Russian Federation Dmitry Medvedev. According to him, even according to the most optimistic estimates, Ukraine will not be able to get the same amount of armored vehicles from its conservatives.


We will manufacture 1,500 tanks alone this year. Calculate how much our enemy will receive even according to the most optimistic calculations, here is your answer

• said the politician in an interview with the main Russian media.

At the same time, the ex-president of the Russian Federation noted that the Russian T-90M tank is by far the best in the world. This combat vehicle is significantly superior to the Western Leopard, Challenger, Abrams tanks.

---

The last bolded part needs a BWAHAHAHAHAHA...

YouBet said:

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A nitpick....calling this a Forever War is not really a straw man. The US government has said we will fight this war as long as Zelensky wants us to. They have literally said it's at his discretion on how long we fight.

So our government had made the decision to exit a 20+ year WoT to hop right into another one where a foreign leader is dictating our involvement. Both political parties have said #1 issue for voters is the Ukraine War.

Think about that...we have abdicated a war decision to a foreign leader while congress gaslights the populace and says this is our #1 priority.

---

The strawman was people like Nortex and others claiming all posters on the logistics thread, or anyone who doubts his amazing "believed by some" sources from random substack bloggers support a "forever war", which basically no one has said.

I definitely think there should be a wind down plan long term but I don't mind the government not saying that publicly. If we said publicly "we'll give you to December 2023" then Putin would know he can just wait it out.

YouBet said:

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A nitpick....calling this a Forever War is not really a straw man. The US government has said we will fight this war as long as Zelensky wants us to. They have literally said it's at his discretion on how long we fight.

So our government had made the decision to exit a 20+ year WoT to hop right into another one where a foreign leader is dictating our involvement. Both political parties have said #1 issue for voters is the Ukraine War.

Think about that...we have abdicated a war decision to a foreign leader while congress gaslights the populace and says this is our #1 priority.

---

Ummm...

The WoT did involve a bunch of troops. This is just sending money/supplies.

A world of difference between hopping into "another one (war)"...

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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YouBet said:

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A nitpick....calling this a Forever War is not really a straw man. The US government has said we will fight this war as long as Zelensky wants us to. They have literally said it's at his discretion on how long we fight.

So our government had made the decision to exit a 20+ year WoT to hop right into another one where a foreign leader is dictating our involvement. Both political parties have said #1 issue for voters is the Ukraine War.

Think about that...we have abdicated a war decision to a foreign leader while congress gaslights the populace and says this is our #1 priority.

---

The strawman was people like Nortex and others claiming all posters on the logistics thread, or anyone who doubts his amazing "believed by some" sources from random substack bloggers support a "forever war", which basically no one has said.

I definitely think there should be a wind down plan long term but I don't mind the government not saying that publicly. If we said publicly "we'll give you to December 2023 then Putin would know he can just wait it out.

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That's what we did in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I think that's proof it's a BAD IDEA...

Well the T14 is better than the T90, very similar but saying the T90 is the best in the world is not true since it is not even the best in Russia.

At about $5 million per T90 tank and 1600 a year you are spending $8 billion on tanks alone. The entire Russia defense budget from 2018-2021 was around $60-65 billion total. I am not sure what their budget is this year but spending around 15% of your budget on tanks alone is crazy when the are having to pull T55s from storage to use a mobile artillery systems since they cannot maintain their current artillery systems. They were using T55s as check point deterrents and for defensive only positions, now they have a new roll as short range artillery.

Giving time requirements is a bad idea, especially with countries as big as Russia. They are already better than the USA at playing the long game and they have no issues waiting/planning 25 years as long as they end up on top. The key to proxy wars is giving your allies the tools and training needed to defeat the enemy but not fight the enemy yourself. We saw in Iraq and Afghanistan if you become the main force and do not take the time to train up the indeg then all you do is create a power vacuum when you reduce or remove your forces (for example ISIS). The beginning of the Afghanistan was textbook, help the locals raise up to fight the enemy. It wasn't until the big brass got involved where things started to go sideways.

P.U.T.U said:

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Well the T14 is better than the T90, very similar but saying the T90 is the best in the world is not true since it is not even the best in Russia.

At about $5 million per T90 tank and 1600 a year you are spending $8 billion on tanks alone. The entire Russia defense budget from 2018-2021 was around $60-65 billion total. I am not sure what their budget is this year but spending around 15% of your budget on tanks alone is crazy when the are having to pull T55s from storage to use a mobile artillery systems since they cannot maintain their current artillery systems. They were using T55s as check point deterrents and for defensive only positions, now they have a new roll as short range artillery.

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This tank thing made me think of the old Soviet joke (which I've updated here):

Putin approaches a worker and asks :
"Comrade, how many tanks have we made this year?"
"Enough to reach God, comrade!" Replied the worker.
"But there is no God" said Putin
"Ah", said the worker, "That's ok, because there are no tanks."

YouBet said:

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A nitpick....calling this a Forever War is not really a straw man. The US government has said we will fight this war as long as Zelensky wants us to. They have literally said it's at his discretion on how long we fight.

So our government had made the decision to exit a 20+ year WoT to hop right into another one where a foreign leader is dictating our involvement. Both political parties have said #1 issue for voters is the Ukraine War.

Think about that...we have abdicated a war decision to a foreign leader while congress gaslights the populace and says this is our #1 priority.

---

It is funny, in a sad way, and true. We are being invaded, to the joy of our leftists, while supporting another country on the other side of the planet that is fighting…a stupid/bloody civil war largely with our own funding/weapons, against the will of the remaining 15 or so million Ukrainians, to our biggest foe's benefit. It's crazy to go back and read quotes about how congress just couldn't afford to secure the border under Trump, and who is voting for/supportive of this idiocracy now.

Mikhailov took over TASS in 2012 and rebranded the news agency into the modern publication it is today. Kondrashov was the press secretary for #Putin’s campaign headquarters in 2018.

— ISW (@TheStudyofWar) July 6, 2023

I, for one am glad to see this as I felt the Russian side was not framing things very fairly of late. Hopefully their new media directors are more equanimous so as to not offend anyone here if I choose to cite it as interesting etc. I do again try not to post it if purely propaganda but the angles are a bit fascinating as a juxtaposition with our own utterly fake/pathetic war news coverage.

Forever war!