Russia/Ukraine from Another Perspective (Relaunch Part Deux)

523,861 Views | 9433 Replies | Last: 4 hrs ago by PlaneCrashGuy
PlaneCrashGuy
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ABATTBQ11 said:

The Green Dragon said:

CIA left with major egg on its face. I'm sure it's used to it…what was their only successful operation, JFK assassination?

The Slava Ukraine Fan Bois are hurting real bad and trying to find some semblance of success here. We should really take it easy on them.


Why would the CIA have egg on its face instead of the Russian military?


If you have to ask…
I'm not sure if people genuinely believe someone is going to say, "Wow, if some people say I'm a moron for not believing this, it clearly must be true."

It's not much a persuasive argument. It really just sounds like a bunch of miniature dachshunds barking because the first one one barked when it thought it heard something.
Teslag
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LarryElder said:

YouBet said:

So far this coup hasn't changed much other than Russia planning to make it so groups like Wagner can continue operating independently:

Quote:

The fate of Wagner itself has yet to be determined, Kartapolov added, saying that the Russian parliament is working on new legislation to give private military companies legal status. "To disarm and disband them would be the best gift for NATO and the Ukrainians," he told Vedomosti.


Many were thinking Ukraine would make a run for it during the chaos but maybe the window was too small.

Quote:

Ukrainian soldiers and officials say little has changed along the 600-mile front line so far. Hanna Malyar, a Ukrainian deputy defense minister, reported a series of military offensives in the east, and the military said Krasnohorivka village in Donetsk region, which had been under Russian occupation since 2014, was recaptured. But no major territorial gains were announced.



This can't be UKE fan boys said this was the end Russia is crumbling they even posted tweets from Twitter


I don't think even the Russian propagandists believe it was a good day for Russia yesterday but keep carrying that water
ABATTBQ11
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

ABATTBQ11 said:

The Green Dragon said:

CIA left with major egg on its face. I'm sure it's used to it…what was their only successful operation, JFK assassination?

The Slava Ukraine Fan Bois are hurting real bad and trying to find some semblance of success here. We should really take it easy on them.


Why would the CIA have egg on its face instead of the Russian military?


If you have to ask…


So we're just making **** up and declaring it as fact now?
J. Walter Weatherman
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LarryElder said:

YouBet said:

So far this coup hasn't changed much other than Russia planning to make it so groups like Wagner can continue operating independently:

Quote:

The fate of Wagner itself has yet to be determined, Kartapolov added, saying that the Russian parliament is working on new legislation to give private military companies legal status. "To disarm and disband them would be the best gift for NATO and the Ukrainians," he told Vedomosti.


Many were thinking Ukraine would make a run for it during the chaos but maybe the window was too small.

Quote:

Ukrainian soldiers and officials say little has changed along the 600-mile front line so far. Hanna Malyar, a Ukrainian deputy defense minister, reported a series of military offensives in the east, and the military said Krasnohorivka village in Donetsk region, which had been under Russian occupation since 2014, was recaptured. But no major territorial gains were announced.



This can't be UKE fan boys said this was the end Russia is crumbling they even posted tweets from Twitter


Link to anyone saying this was the end?
Not a Bot
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A lot of posters on this thread are arguing with strawmen to make themselves feel good about their own dumb opinions.
PlaneCrashGuy
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New flash, no ones "arguing" with the fan boy dimwits today. They're being mocked.
I'm not sure if people genuinely believe someone is going to say, "Wow, if some people say I'm a moron for not believing this, it clearly must be true."

It's not much a persuasive argument. It really just sounds like a bunch of miniature dachshunds barking because the first one one barked when it thought it heard something.
GAC06
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Whoosh!
LarryElder
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Not a Bot said:

A lot of posters on this thread are arguing with strawmen to make themselves feel good about their own dumb opinions.


Are you serious it was all over the other fan boy thread unreal
Faustus
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PlaneCrashGuy said:

Did Ukraine win? Is it finally over?


Alas no. Russia is now harder, better, faster, stronger.
J. Walter Weatherman
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LarryElder said:

Not a Bot said:

A lot of posters on this thread are arguing with strawmen to make themselves feel good about their own dumb opinions.


Are you serious it was all over the other fan boy thread unreal


Can you share one poster who said it was over?
torrid
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Lots of news sites have headlines like "Putin weakened" or "Putin in worst position in decades". I wonder if he actually just got rid of his biggest threat.
Teslag
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He got rid of the only force they had that was actually successful. Putin isn't a mastermind. It's clear he's pretty much a dip**** at this point.
TheBonifaceOption
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Teslag said:

He got rid of the only force they had that was actually successful. Putin isn't a mastermind. It's clear he's pretty much a dip**** at this point.

This is the same guy that was power-hungry and was going to sweep across Europe according to you.

That was the initial lie yall told, which was the justification for our national involvement. "Putin, that communist-nazi, is reforging the USSR and is a behemoth unless we fund Zelensky-Balboa the underdog who embodies our moral center."

Two weeks into the conflict "putin is an imbecile, they don't have gas to last a third week". Two months into the conflict "putins economy is going to fully crash." Six months into the conflict "putin is running out of munitions soon." Nine months into the conflict "putin is quaking at the upcoming counter-offensive." Not to mention every false catastrophe or Russia somehow requires the taxpayers to fork over half a Trillion dollars in additional support.

Dude just admit you are the dog being wagged by the tail.
Teslag
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So Putin took Kiev in four days and all is going according to plan?
PlaneCrashGuy
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Only some can see the inevitable
I'm not sure if people genuinely believe someone is going to say, "Wow, if some people say I'm a moron for not believing this, it clearly must be true."

It's not much a persuasive argument. It really just sounds like a bunch of miniature dachshunds barking because the first one one barked when it thought it heard something.
Teslag
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What is Putin going to bang the door down with? Some conscripts and an old rusted T72?
PlaneCrashGuy
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ATX_AG_08
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With his super secret arsenal of weapons he hasn't unleashed yet.
Teslag
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It's a valid question. Putin spent 6 months trying to fight and claw for bakmuht. And now they are still clinging to it. The ukes take ever more ground each day. The Russians just lost their best fighting force. You keep thinking they se just going to turn on a switch and really get serious. But that switch doesn't exist. It's not 1940 anymore and Russia can't just throw bodies at the problem.
TheBonifaceOption
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Teslag said:

So Putin took Kiev in four days and all is going according to plan?

Putin has the ability to strike at command centers, even today, yet they don't.

You haven't the slightest idea about what is going on, and that fact is reinforced by your response to my previous post outlining all the lies you have parroted from the media. You have nothing beyond "orange man bad" but repackaged for the crap de jour of 2022. You are an excellent example of an educated know-nothing, satisfied in the self-delusion you are clever.
Teslag
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Ah yes, Putin could just strike the uke command centers if he wanted but hasn't done so out of extreme benevolence. Being bogged down after a year in a half while getting his **** pushed in is all part of the master plan. Just wait until he finally decides to press his magic button to take out the uke command centers. That's the angle "super knowledgeable" are taking now.
GAC06
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They're making 100 new T-90's a month though
GAC06
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Quote:

You haven't the slightest idea about what is going on


That's rich.

Maybe 16 months in they'll get serious and decide to win. A 16 month feint if you will.
Burnsey
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TheBonifaceOption said:

Teslag said:

So Putin took Kiev in four days and all is going according to plan?

Putin has the ability to strike at command centers, even today, yet they don't.


Insert 'Well…We're Waiting' gif here
samurai_science
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Sounds like the "coup" was a failure so I guess Nazi's vs Communists is back on the menu. Yay! More debt and inflation for our poor/middle class.
nortex97
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It sure sounds like Zelensky/Xiden/Graham intend to create a false flag emergency/pretense around a nuclear blast from the Russian-held nuclear plant, Europe's largest.



"Destruction of a nuclear facility"

Budanov:
Quote:

Quote:

The 4th and 6th power units of the Zaporozhye NPP were mined by Russia," Kyrylo Budanov
"The situation has never been as serious as it is now.

The plan of the terrorist attack at the ZNPP has been fully developed and approved. To accelerate the catastrophe, they can use technical means," Budanov stated

Now, Zelensky has made two separate videos where he plainly states that Russia is preparing a massive terrorist attack at the ZNPP plant "just like they did at the Kakhovka dam". He goes on to sternly warn the world and charge them with the responsibility to act with utmost severity in response to this upcoming Russian attack. He specifically invokes the threat of radiation crossing the borders into other NATO countries for obvious effect.
Frustrating if he is right about this 'false flag' operation.

Somewhat better news is he thinks it's unlikely the Russians are preparing for a big offensive operation, based on a long discussion of recruitment/mobilization for both:

Quote:

The point is that, Shoigu stated that these new formations are to be reserves. That means they are not for the SMO but are to simply fortify and reinforce the two newly planned military districts of the Moscow and Leningrad region. Further, they can be used for rotations of units in the SMO, but not concurrently with the SMO units.

So what does this tell us? If the newly recruited 150k+ are not for the SMO, it means we're left only with the previous total of around ~350k as being Russia's total SMO troop count. And though that number could be higher, it could also be lower if I'm wrong on things like how many Russian troops left after contract expiry or even total casualties.

And while ~350k is clearly higher than Ukraine's ~200-250k or so, it's not several orders of magnitude higher. Furthermore, with constant rotation, that becomes more like 250k or less on the actual field at any given time. Which would mean that Russia's actual troop numbers in the theater could be at rough parity with that of the AFU. This clearly explains why Russia is not yet gearing up for some mass overwhelming big arrow attacks. Also, the newly mobilized 150k might be split with some going towards the new army/corps while the rest going directly to the SMO.
Anyway, then some rah rah hatred toward Prighozin and cheerleading about Russian patriotism/unity, blah blah blah. It sounds like there isn't much actual change in the 'offensive' from the UFA, just more senseless carnage for the cameras, and desperate attempts to raise more men for future cannon fodder operations.

Saint Zelensky has declared himself a dictator, no elections until after the war/he feels like it.
torrid
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A year and a half into this, I am still puzzled by one thing. Does anyone else think the real Russian military has yet to show up in this conflict? Yes Russia's military capabilities are greatly diminished from the height of the cold war, but I can't believe it has been THIS bad. Beyond the poorly-equipped conscripts, paroled convicts, and Wagner thugs we have seen committed to the war so far, I would assume Putin still has more capable, professional troops in reserve.
nortex97
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torrid said:

A year and a half into this, I am still puzzled by one thing. Does anyone else think the real Russian military has yet to show up in this conflict? Yes Russia's military capabilities are greatly diminished from the height of the cold war, but I can't believe it has been THIS bad. Beyond the poorly-equipped conscripts, paroled convicts, and Wagner thugs we have seen committed to the war so far, I would assume Putin still has more capable, professional troops in reserve.
It's again somewhat unsurprising. First, the actual Russian army is being used now in the layered defense. The Wagner conscript types were used in the siege, and the very initial attempt to go to Kiev was poorly planned/executed by what we might call 'peace time' generals, or as Putin called them 'parquet generals.'

This year the Russian army regulars have done pretty well, generally on the defensive. They've adapted their tactics to the terrain/role, and have some forces in reserve, while also continuing to evolve with drones/ISW etc. as have the Ukrainians. Russia is however not a military/economic peer to China or the US, other than their nuclear arsenal.



fka ftc
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Agree. People seem to somehow believe Russia is some backwoods 3rd world country with all their military supplies and munitions left over from 1985.

They seem to ignore the tremendous wealth in Russia that allows for robust infrastructure and gleaming cities of glass towers.

At times I get it when you look at the state of their passenger aircraft / airlines and how the lower to middle class may live there. But I find it hard to believe Putin spent money on modern office buildings in Moscow but forgot to have any modern weaponry. On its face, makes no sense.
Teslag
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It's not that they didn't spend the money on weapons, it's just that it never ended up used on weapons. Most was redirected and lost through fraud. And then reported spent or completely faked. This is what made our intel so off. You can only report what you hear through back channels. Russia believed internally that their weapons systems were maintained, and in in some cases actually existed. So we believed this too. Turns out, it was all on paper.
fka ftc
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Teslag said:

It's not that they didn't spend the money on weapons, it's just that it never ended up used on weapons. Most was redirected and lost through fraud. And then reported spent or completely faked. This is what made our intel so off. You can only report what you hear through back channels. Russia believed internally that their weapons systems were maintained, and in in some cases actually existed. So we believed this too. Turns out, it was all on paper.


Yea, if you buy that then someone on here has beachfront property in Oklahoma to sell you.

The grift in Russia is well-known and arranged. ****, it's a badge of honor there. There is ZERO motivation there to "hide" the grift.

So frankly, your post reeks of bull manure. And our intel is so bad we knew about the coup attempt 3 days early but did not know Russia had no weapons to fight in Ukraine.

As has been typical on this debate, one side lacks facts and logic.
Teslag
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Even most of the pro-Russian posters on this thread believe that. It's widely known now. Hell, even the Russian propaganda outlets were opening about it last year. It's been one of the few things in this war that both sides have agreed on.
fka ftc
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Teslag said:

Even most of the pro-Russian posters on this thread believe that. It's widely known now. Hell, even the Russian propaganda outlets were opening about it last year. It's been one of the few things in this war that both sides have agreed on.


And some of us have ways of knowing better. Hell, just applying good old fashioned logic informs better than believing the pro-Uke nonsense from MSM, Lindsey Graham, and posters such as yourself.

Russia will be just fine. Ukraine will be much smaller, Belarus will be folded back in and Poland will broker a mutual agreement with Putin.

Iran and China will also enter into more formal alliances with Moscow. Predict India will as well. The more we prolong this or heaven forbid escalate this, the STRONGER Russia will become.
Teslag
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How will Ukraine be much smaller? Russia had to claw and scrape for bakhmut, and they did that with a Pmc that's largely been disbanded. They don't have the equipment to take anything more.
nortex97
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fka ftc said:

Teslag said:

Even most of the pro-Russian posters on this thread believe that. It's widely known now. Hell, even the Russian propaganda outlets were opening about it last year. It's been one of the few things in this war that both sides have agreed on.


And some of us have ways of knowing better. Hell, just applying good old fashioned logic informs better than believing the pro-Uke nonsense from MSM, Lindsey Graham, and posters such as yourself.

Russia will be just fine. Ukraine will be much smaller, Belarus will be folded back in and Poland will broker a mutual agreement with Putin.

Iran and China will also enter into more formal alliances with Moscow. Predict India will as well. The more we prolong this or heaven forbid escalate this, the STRONGER Russia will become.
Correct. The Russian economy is actually expanding, unlike our recession or Germany's, and the BRICS alliance is only growing stronger.

Meanwhile…we are only a few steps away from 'this will just be a cheap/easy nuclear war, from afar, for us.'

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