javajaws said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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javajaws said:

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Joes said:

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GAC06 said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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GAC06 said:

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Flying outside their airspace isn't an act of war. We do it all the time and will continue doing it. And lol at them "calling us" on it.

---

By "calling us" I mean escalated to something that would cause us to put boots on the ground.

We do not need boots on the ground because the next step up is nuclear war.

It shocks me that you guys don't seem to care about that at all.

---

Direct conflict results in Russia getting their ass handed to them. The only card they have to play is nukes and guess what, they don't want that either.

We could respond to this incident by annihilating the airbase the flankers came from. Russia isn't going to start a nuclear war over that.

---

Yeah, I really don't want to be combative but everything you said here is genuinely nuts.

On top of everything else, I have no idea why anyone just assumes our military is worth a **** to begin with. I'm pretty sure my 1970s cub scout troop would beat it up and make it cry. But that's beside the point because we shouldn't need to find out. The hardon so many people have in hoping we get in the war is just amazing. You can sense the excitement from lots of people over this drone event that maybe we'll get pulled in directly so we can kill some Russians ourselves. And once people start seriously trying to argue that "our nukes are better than their nukes anyway" then you know you're operating in pure crazy land.

---

Don't be stupid. Just because we don't want Russia killing more Ukrainians doesn't mean we want open war with them. And guess what - Russia doesn't want that either because they know its a no win situation for either of us. So proxy war it is.

And unlike Afghanistan and Iran and Vietnam - these Ukrainians actually want to fight for their lives and their own freedom. So let them fight and give them the tools we can spare to do so. Our NATO allies that are closer to this than us also rely on our help.

I know you Trump guys like to be isolationists and think we don't need allies - but we do. China's influence in central and South America should be evidence enough of that.

---

With China's influence expanding as you freely admitted then why are we throwing a trillion dollars at Ukraine when we should be doing everything we can to counter their moves especially when yall claim that we can pivot and take on Russia and annihilate them no problem?

Oh wait because that has become the swamp's new money laundering playground.

---

Oh I don't know - maybe because our problems closer to home are more political in nature than military? Or do you want to give military hardware (that they don't need) to central/south american countries that are even more corrupt than Ukraine could ever dream of being?

And you seem to be oversimplifying things and assuming we can only address one problem at a time. I guess that might be true for brain dead Biden but I assure you that is not how an effective government operates. You have to multi-task.

---

We don't have an effective government.

samurai_science said:

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javajaws said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

---

javajaws said:

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Joes said:

---

GAC06 said:

---

Ags4DaWin said:

---

GAC06 said:

---

Flying outside their airspace isn't an act of war. We do it all the time and will continue doing it. And lol at them "calling us" on it.

---

By "calling us" I mean escalated to something that would cause us to put boots on the ground.

We do not need boots on the ground because the next step up is nuclear war.

It shocks me that you guys don't seem to care about that at all.

---

Direct conflict results in Russia getting their ass handed to them. The only card they have to play is nukes and guess what, they don't want that either.

We could respond to this incident by annihilating the airbase the flankers came from. Russia isn't going to start a nuclear war over that.

---

Yeah, I really don't want to be combative but everything you said here is genuinely nuts.

On top of everything else, I have no idea why anyone just assumes our military is worth a **** to begin with. I'm pretty sure my 1970s cub scout troop would beat it up and make it cry. But that's beside the point because we shouldn't need to find out. The hardon so many people have in hoping we get in the war is just amazing. You can sense the excitement from lots of people over this drone event that maybe we'll get pulled in directly so we can kill some Russians ourselves. And once people start seriously trying to argue that "our nukes are better than their nukes anyway" then you know you're operating in pure crazy land.

---

Don't be stupid. Just because we don't want Russia killing more Ukrainians doesn't mean we want open war with them. And guess what - Russia doesn't want that either because they know its a no win situation for either of us. So proxy war it is.

And unlike Afghanistan and Iran and Vietnam - these Ukrainians actually want to fight for their lives and their own freedom. So let them fight and give them the tools we can spare to do so. Our NATO allies that are closer to this than us also rely on our help.

I know you Trump guys like to be isolationists and think we don't need allies - but we do. China's influence in central and South America should be evidence enough of that.

---

With China's influence expanding as you freely admitted then why are we throwing a trillion dollars at Ukraine when we should be doing everything we can to counter their moves especially when yall claim that we can pivot and take on Russia and annihilate them no problem?

Oh wait because that has become the swamp's new money laundering playground.

---

Oh I don't know - maybe because our problems closer to home are more political in nature than military? Or do you want to give military hardware (that they don't need) to central/south american countries that are even more corrupt than Ukraine could ever dream of being?

And you seem to be oversimplifying things and assuming we can only address one problem at a time. I guess that might be true for brain dead Biden but I assure you that is not how an effective government operates. You have to multi-task.

---

We don't have an effective government.

---

Well, they are effective...just effective at all the wrong things!

texagbeliever said:

---

Can't argue any of the points, but you can accuse the person of falling for Putin propaganda. You won the debate. So smart. So brave.

---

It is truly breathtaking to witness folks championing US intervention/expansionist wars abroad (in Central Asia no less) as calling out those who disagree as somehow un-American/Russia-lovers.

I'm old enough to remember when dissent was called patriotic and American exceptionalism was to be questioned as silly, by the American leftists, like Obama, who, oh by the way was very soft on Putin when he had Crimea annexed after a vote…and now we are supposed to 'want' that retaken by force using our funds/weapons.

nortex97 said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Can't argue any of the points, but you can accuse the person of falling for Putin propaganda. You won the debate. So smart. So brave.

---

It is truly breathtaking to witness folks championing US intervention/expansionist wars abroad (in Central Asia no less) as calling out those who disagree as somehow un-American/Russia-lovers.

I'm old enough to remember when dissent was called patriotic and American exceptionalism was to be questioned as silly, by the American leftists, like Obama, who, oh by the way was very soft on Putin when he had Crimea annexed after a vote…and now we are supposed to 'want' that retaken by force using our funds/weapons.

---

Waffling on foreign policy will always be the way for us with the American 2-party system and 4-year presidency. No real way around it unless you want to ditch some or all parts of the constitution.

I would never call someone who disagrees with Ukrainian assistance as un-patriotic. Its just that some of the arguments some of you'll use...lack critical thinking. That's not to say all of the arguments are bad, but some of the comments thrown around here are pretty lame.

texagbeliever said:

---

Can't argue any of the points, but you can accuse the person of falling for Putin propaganda. You won the debate. So smart. So brave.

---

Well...it IS his talking point. It's propaganda, but you believe it. Sorry I pointed out a fact.

Putin wants to get the band back together. This doesn't have to do with NATO. But, you're gullible enough to believe his lies.

We did it your way in 2014 when he took Crimea. What did get us? Oh yeah. He decided to take the rest of Ukraine because no one stopped him.

Ag with kids said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Can't argue any of the points, but you can accuse the person of falling for Putin propaganda. You won the debate. So smart. So brave.

---

Well...it IS his talking point. It's propaganda, but you believe it. Sorry I pointed out a fact.

Putin wants to get the band back together. This doesn't have to do with NATO. But, you're gullible enough to believe his lies.

We did it your way in 2014 when he took Crimea. What did get us? Oh yeah. He decided to take the rest of Ukraine because no one stopped him.

---

So your real issue is with how Obama, Biden, (GCF to an extent), John F Kerry (who oh by the way served in Vietnam), and Victoria Nuland handled Crimea in 2014.

Got it.

What 'band' does Putin, ostensibly per your post, want to put back together?

nortex97 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Can't argue any of the points, but you can accuse the person of falling for Putin propaganda. You won the debate. So smart. So brave.

---

Well...it IS his talking point. It's propaganda, but you believe it. Sorry I pointed out a fact.

Putin wants to get the band back together. This doesn't have to do with NATO. But, you're gullible enough to believe his lies.

We did it your way in 2014 when he took Crimea. What did get us? Oh yeah. He decided to take the rest of Ukraine because no one stopped him.

---

So your real issue is with how Obama, Biden, (GCF to an extent), John F Kerry (who oh by the way served in Vietnam), and Victoria Nuland handled Crimea in 2014.

Got it.

What 'band' does Putin, ostensibly per your post, want to put back together?

---

It's the RESPONSE, not who did it.

You want to do the same response and you're going to get the same result. Putin just showed. that.

And the Soviet Union/Iron Curtain. He'd love to have all that territory back - not because of NATO...

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Can't argue any of the points, but you can accuse the person of falling for Putin propaganda. You won the debate. So smart. So brave.

---

Well...it IS his talking point. It's propaganda, but you believe it. Sorry I pointed out a fact.

Putin wants to get the band back together. This doesn't have to do with NATO. But, you're gullible enough to believe his lies.

We did it your way in 2014 when he took Crimea. What did get us? Oh yeah. He decided to take the rest of Ukraine because no one stopped him.

---

So your real issue is with how Obama, Biden, (GCF to an extent), John F Kerry (who oh by the way served in Vietnam), and Victoria Nuland handled Crimea in 2014.

Got it.

What 'band' does Putin, ostensibly per your post, want to put back together?

---

It's the RESPONSE, not who did it.

You want to do the same response and you're going to get the same result. Putin just showed. that.

And the Soviet Union/Iron Curtain. He'd love to have all that territory back - not because of NATO...

---

I do expect feckless incoherence from democrats, so that is partially fair, but no, I do not expect/want to 'do the same response.'

In fact, that is essentially my whole point, which you have stumbled onto without recognizing it. Foreign wars/conflicts/meat grinders started/managed by Democrats/our state department/intelligence agencies end disastrously for both the combatants (including our 'allies') and America since Vietnam.

I've seen no evidence Putin wants eastern Ukraine, specifically, as a territorial possession. Maybe he does, I dunno, whatever.

I don't care who runs Kiev and didn't when Moscow did it directly way back when I was in middle school, either. I didn't care when Nuland bragged about intervening on 'my' behalf on tape to '****' the EU/Russia either.





Did you?

Do you care that Obama and Biden thought the Nordstream pipelines were the right strategy for Germany/Russia to pursue?

Do you care that some Russian oligarchs are exempt from our sanctions list based on having paid the Biden family? Why or why not?

I know, these are uncomfortable questions for Dem-Biden Ukraine war backers. Sorry.

Ag with kids said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Can't argue any of the points, but you can accuse the person of falling for Putin propaganda. You won the debate. So smart. So brave.

---

Well...it IS his talking point. It's propaganda, but you believe it. Sorry I pointed out a fact.

Putin wants to get the band back together. This doesn't have to do with NATO. But, you're gullible enough to believe his lies.

We did it your way in 2014 when he took Crimea. What did get us? Oh yeah. He decided to take the rest of Ukraine because no one stopped him.

---

It is intellectually the laziest argument. Putin Propaganda. Refute any of the 10 other points that provide support for his claim. You can't. Your knowledge of history is the prime example of hero and villains history which is the dumbest and most naive way to look at history.

nortex97 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Can't argue any of the points, but you can accuse the person of falling for Putin propaganda. You won the debate. So smart. So brave.

---

Well...it IS his talking point. It's propaganda, but you believe it. Sorry I pointed out a fact.

Putin wants to get the band back together. This doesn't have to do with NATO. But, you're gullible enough to believe his lies.

We did it your way in 2014 when he took Crimea. What did get us? Oh yeah. He decided to take the rest of Ukraine because no one stopped him.

---

So your real issue is with how Obama, Biden, (GCF to an extent), John F Kerry (who oh by the way served in Vietnam), and Victoria Nuland handled Crimea in 2014.

Got it.

What 'band' does Putin, ostensibly per your post, want to put back together?

---

It's the RESPONSE, not who did it.

You want to do the same response and you're going to get the same result. Putin just showed. that.

And the Soviet Union/Iron Curtain. He'd love to have all that territory back - not because of NATO...

---

I do expect feckless incoherence from democrats, so that is partially fair, but no, I do not expect/want to 'do the same response.'

In fact, that is essentially my whole point, which you have stumbled onto without recognizing it. Foreign wars/conflicts/meat grinders started/managed by Democrats/our state department/intelligence agencies end disastrously for both the combatants (including our 'allies') and America since Vietnam.

I've seen no evidence Putin wants eastern Ukraine, specifically, as a territorial possession. Maybe he does, I dunno, whatever.

I don't care who runs Kiev and didn't when Moscow did it directly way back when I was in middle school, either. I didn't care when Nuland bragged about intervening on 'my' behalf on tape to '****' the EU/Russia either.





Did you?

Do you care that Obama and Biden thought the Nordstream pipelines were the right strategy for Germany/Russia to pursue?

Do you care that some Russian oligarchs are exempt from our sanctions list based on having paid the Biden family? Why or why not?

I know, these are uncomfortable questions for Dem-Biden Ukraine war backers. Sorry.

---

WTF? Strawman alert.

But, it's typical TexAgs. Don't agree with me you're a friggin far left liberal, rabble rabble rabble...

This has to do with response to Russian aggression vs Ukraine. Please try to focus, here...

I think ALL oligarchs should have sanctions, so take that stupid idea off your table...And I think Biden and the Dems are idiots. Doesn't mean we shouldn't help Ukraine.

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Can't argue any of the points, but you can accuse the person of falling for Putin propaganda. You won the debate. So smart. So brave.

---

Well...it IS his talking point. It's propaganda, but you believe it. Sorry I pointed out a fact.

Putin wants to get the band back together. This doesn't have to do with NATO. But, you're gullible enough to believe his lies.

We did it your way in 2014 when he took Crimea. What did get us? Oh yeah. He decided to take the rest of Ukraine because no one stopped him.

---

So your real issue is with how Obama, Biden, (GCF to an extent), John F Kerry (who oh by the way served in Vietnam), and Victoria Nuland handled Crimea in 2014.

Got it.

What 'band' does Putin, ostensibly per your post, want to put back together?

---

It's the RESPONSE, not who did it.

You want to do the same response and you're going to get the same result. Putin just showed. that.

And the Soviet Union/Iron Curtain. He'd love to have all that territory back - not because of NATO...

---

I do expect feckless incoherence from democrats, so that is partially fair, but no, I do not expect/want to 'do the same response.'

In fact, that is essentially my whole point, which you have stumbled onto without recognizing it. Foreign wars/conflicts/meat grinders started/managed by Democrats/our state department/intelligence agencies end disastrously for both the combatants (including our 'allies') and America since Vietnam.

I've seen no evidence Putin wants eastern Ukraine, specifically, as a territorial possession. Maybe he does, I dunno, whatever.

I don't care who runs Kiev and didn't when Moscow did it directly way back when I was in middle school, either. I didn't care when Nuland bragged about intervening on 'my' behalf on tape to '****' the EU/Russia either.





Did you?

Do you care that Obama and Biden thought the Nordstream pipelines were the right strategy for Germany/Russia to pursue?

Do you care that some Russian oligarchs are exempt from our sanctions list based on having paid the Biden family? Why or why not?

I know, these are uncomfortable questions for Dem-Biden Ukraine war backers. Sorry.

---

WTF? Strawman alert.

But, it's typical TexAgs. Don't agree with me you're a friggin far left liberal, rabble rabble rabble...

This has to do with response to Russian aggression vs Ukraine. Please try to focus, here...

I think ALL oligarchs should have sanctions, so take that stupid idea off your table...And I think Biden and the Dems are idiots. Doesn't mean we shouldn't help Ukraine.

---

So you've been here since 1999, care passionately about…Russian aggression toward Ukraine, and have no response to your thoughts from 2014 regarding Russia and Crimea/Ukraine. Interesting, I suspect basically the entirety of the war cheerleaders are similar.

nortex97 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Can't argue any of the points, but you can accuse the person of falling for Putin propaganda. You won the debate. So smart. So brave.

---

Well...it IS his talking point. It's propaganda, but you believe it. Sorry I pointed out a fact.

Putin wants to get the band back together. This doesn't have to do with NATO. But, you're gullible enough to believe his lies.

We did it your way in 2014 when he took Crimea. What did get us? Oh yeah. He decided to take the rest of Ukraine because no one stopped him.

---

So your real issue is with how Obama, Biden, (GCF to an extent), John F Kerry (who oh by the way served in Vietnam), and Victoria Nuland handled Crimea in 2014.

Got it.

What 'band' does Putin, ostensibly per your post, want to put back together?

---

It's the RESPONSE, not who did it.

You want to do the same response and you're going to get the same result. Putin just showed. that.

And the Soviet Union/Iron Curtain. He'd love to have all that territory back - not because of NATO...

---

I do expect feckless incoherence from democrats, so that is partially fair, but no, I do not expect/want to 'do the same response.'

In fact, that is essentially my whole point, which you have stumbled onto without recognizing it. Foreign wars/conflicts/meat grinders started/managed by Democrats/our state department/intelligence agencies end disastrously for both the combatants (including our 'allies') and America since Vietnam.

I've seen no evidence Putin wants eastern Ukraine, specifically, as a territorial possession. Maybe he does, I dunno, whatever.

I don't care who runs Kiev and didn't when Moscow did it directly way back when I was in middle school, either. I didn't care when Nuland bragged about intervening on 'my' behalf on tape to '****' the EU/Russia either.





Did you?

Do you care that Obama and Biden thought the Nordstream pipelines were the right strategy for Germany/Russia to pursue?

Do you care that some Russian oligarchs are exempt from our sanctions list based on having paid the Biden family? Why or why not?

I know, these are uncomfortable questions for Dem-Biden Ukraine war backers. Sorry.

---

WTF? Strawman alert.

But, it's typical TexAgs. Don't agree with me you're a friggin far left liberal, rabble rabble rabble...

This has to do with response to Russian aggression vs Ukraine. Please try to focus, here...

I think ALL oligarchs should have sanctions, so take that stupid idea off your table...And I think Biden and the Dems are idiots. Doesn't mean we shouldn't help Ukraine.

---

So you've been here since 1999, care passionately about…Russian aggression toward Ukraine, and have no response to your thoughts from 2014 regarding Russia and Crimea/Ukraine. Interesting, I suspect basically the entirety of the war cheerleaders are similar.

---

I just told you my thoughts on 2014. Did you even read anything I posted?

texagbeliever said:

---

I remember 3 months ago when Ukraine was about to win the war. When I pointed out it was just Russia consolidating and taking up an easier position for the winter I was ridiculed. And now that winter has passed the spring appears to be uncoiling. So predictable.

---

It's gonna get messier long term, but will wind up being a bloody stalemate, imho. NY Mag:

Quote:

---

Wars of attrition are tests of manpower, industrial capacity, and political will. Despite its heavy losses, Russia has no shortage of men. Following its mobilization in October, Russia boasts more than 300,000 troops in Ukraine and hundreds of thousands of additional reserves. In total, Moscow commands a military force of an estimated 1.3 million. The Ukrainian military's headcount is closer to 500,000.

The quality of Russia's conscripted forces may not be high. But after a year of bleeding its best-trained professionals, the Ukrainian military faces similar problems. According to Western estimates, Ukraine has lost 120,000 troops to death or wounds. This has transformed the character of Ukraine's forces, according to Ukrainian troops who spoke with the Washington Postthis week:

Quote:

---

After a year of war, Kupol, a lieutenant colonel, said his battalion is unrecognizable. Of about 500 soldiers, roughly 100 were killed in action and another 400 wounded, leading to complete turnover. Kupol said he was the sole military professional in the battalion, and he described the struggle of leading a unit composed entirely of inexperienced troops.

"I get 100 new soldiers," Kupol said. "They don't give me any time to prepare them. They say, 'Take them into the battle.' They just drop everything and run. That's it. Do you understand why? Because the soldier doesn't shoot. I ask him why, and he says, 'I'm afraid of the sound of the shot.' And for some reason, he has never thrown a grenade."

---

The Post's report also suggests that Ukraine is "suffering from basic shortages of ammunition, including artillery shells and mortar bombs."

Russia's stocks of martial hardware are comparatively deep. After much hesitation, Germany approved the transfer of Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine last month. While those vehicles are more advanced than Russia's tanks, the quantity being sent is all but "symbolic," in the words of one Ukrainian government official who spoke with the Post. More than one month after they were approved, only a few dozen Leopard 2s have made it into Ukraine. Russia's tank fleet numbers in the thousands.

For its part, the U.S. has already expended 13 years' worth of Stinger anti-aircraft missiles and five years' worth of Javelins on the Ukrainian cause. American military production has not come close to keeping pace with Kyiv's demand for armaments, which has forced the U.S. to delay arms shipments to Taiwan.

In the medium-term, the balance of armaments will be shaped by each side's productive capacity. Contrary to Western hopes, sanctions have failed to incapacitate Russia's economy, which is poised to grow this year. The same cannot be said of Ukraine's. After falling by more than 30 percent in 2022, the nation's GDP is now one-tenth that of Russia.

---

All of this blood and treasure is for exactly what, as far as team Biden's "2014 boundaries or bust" strategy?

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Can't argue any of the points, but you can accuse the person of falling for Putin propaganda. You won the debate. So smart. So brave.

---

Well...it IS his talking point. It's propaganda, but you believe it. Sorry I pointed out a fact.

Putin wants to get the band back together. This doesn't have to do with NATO. But, you're gullible enough to believe his lies.

We did it your way in 2014 when he took Crimea. What did get us? Oh yeah. He decided to take the rest of Ukraine because no one stopped him.

---

So your real issue is with how Obama, Biden, (GCF to an extent), John F Kerry (who oh by the way served in Vietnam), and Victoria Nuland handled Crimea in 2014.

Got it.

What 'band' does Putin, ostensibly per your post, want to put back together?

---

It's the RESPONSE, not who did it.

You want to do the same response and you're going to get the same result. Putin just showed. that.

And the Soviet Union/Iron Curtain. He'd love to have all that territory back - not because of NATO...

---

I do expect feckless incoherence from democrats, so that is partially fair, but no, I do not expect/want to 'do the same response.'

In fact, that is essentially my whole point, which you have stumbled onto without recognizing it. Foreign wars/conflicts/meat grinders started/managed by Democrats/our state department/intelligence agencies end disastrously for both the combatants (including our 'allies') and America since Vietnam.

I've seen no evidence Putin wants eastern Ukraine, specifically, as a territorial possession. Maybe he does, I dunno, whatever.

I don't care who runs Kiev and didn't when Moscow did it directly way back when I was in middle school, either. I didn't care when Nuland bragged about intervening on 'my' behalf on tape to '****' the EU/Russia either.





Did you?

Do you care that Obama and Biden thought the Nordstream pipelines were the right strategy for Germany/Russia to pursue?

Do you care that some Russian oligarchs are exempt from our sanctions list based on having paid the Biden family? Why or why not?

I know, these are uncomfortable questions for Dem-Biden Ukraine war backers. Sorry.

---

WTF? Strawman alert.

But, it's typical TexAgs. Don't agree with me you're a friggin far left liberal, rabble rabble rabble...

This has to do with response to Russian aggression vs Ukraine. Please try to focus, here...

I think ALL oligarchs should have sanctions, so take that stupid idea off your table...And I think Biden and the Dems are idiots. Doesn't mean we shouldn't help Ukraine.

---

So you've been here since 1999, care passionately about…Russian aggression toward Ukraine, and have no response to your thoughts from 2014 regarding Russia and Crimea/Ukraine. Interesting, I suspect basically the entirety of the war cheerleaders are similar.

---

I just told you my thoughts on 2014. Did you even read anything I posted?

---

Then show me what you said in 2014, 2015, or 2016. I apologize if I missed this directly-related outrage. Surely your anger about Russian aggression toward Ukraine didn't simply start in 2022 (or late 2021), right?

nortex97 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

Can't argue any of the points, but you can accuse the person of falling for Putin propaganda. You won the debate. So smart. So brave.

---

Well...it IS his talking point. It's propaganda, but you believe it. Sorry I pointed out a fact.

Putin wants to get the band back together. This doesn't have to do with NATO. But, you're gullible enough to believe his lies.

We did it your way in 2014 when he took Crimea. What did get us? Oh yeah. He decided to take the rest of Ukraine because no one stopped him.

---

So your real issue is with how Obama, Biden, (GCF to an extent), John F Kerry (who oh by the way served in Vietnam), and Victoria Nuland handled Crimea in 2014.

Got it.

What 'band' does Putin, ostensibly per your post, want to put back together?

---

It's the RESPONSE, not who did it.

You want to do the same response and you're going to get the same result. Putin just showed. that.

And the Soviet Union/Iron Curtain. He'd love to have all that territory back - not because of NATO...

---

I do expect feckless incoherence from democrats, so that is partially fair, but no, I do not expect/want to 'do the same response.'

In fact, that is essentially my whole point, which you have stumbled onto without recognizing it. Foreign wars/conflicts/meat grinders started/managed by Democrats/our state department/intelligence agencies end disastrously for both the combatants (including our 'allies') and America since Vietnam.

I've seen no evidence Putin wants eastern Ukraine, specifically, as a territorial possession. Maybe he does, I dunno, whatever.

I don't care who runs Kiev and didn't when Moscow did it directly way back when I was in middle school, either. I didn't care when Nuland bragged about intervening on 'my' behalf on tape to '****' the EU/Russia either.





Did you?

Do you care that Obama and Biden thought the Nordstream pipelines were the right strategy for Germany/Russia to pursue?

Do you care that some Russian oligarchs are exempt from our sanctions list based on having paid the Biden family? Why or why not?

I know, these are uncomfortable questions for Dem-Biden Ukraine war backers. Sorry.

---

WTF? Strawman alert.

But, it's typical TexAgs. Don't agree with me you're a friggin far left liberal, rabble rabble rabble...

This has to do with response to Russian aggression vs Ukraine. Please try to focus, here...

I think ALL oligarchs should have sanctions, so take that stupid idea off your table...And I think Biden and the Dems are idiots. Doesn't mean we shouldn't help Ukraine.

---

So you've been here since 1999, care passionately about…Russian aggression toward Ukraine, and have no response to your thoughts from 2014 regarding Russia and Crimea/Ukraine. Interesting, I suspect basically the entirety of the war cheerleaders are similar.

---

I just told you my thoughts on 2014. Did you even read anything I posted?

---

Then show me what you said in 2014, 2015, or 2016. I apologize if I missed this directly-related outrage. Surely your anger about Russian aggression toward Ukraine didn't simply start in 2022 (or late 2021), right?

---

I actually had a Ukrainian flag in my old facebook profile in 2014-15 after what I perceived was unprovoked Russian invasion of Crimea...... and now I know the rest of the story and understand that there are NO GOOD GUYS in this and that the west fomented a coup that left the Russian minority in the East and Crimea isolated and under direct physical attack from the Kiev regime.

People need to ask questions before blindly supporting the next thing....

Well put, but you are more reasonable than the war cheerleaders.

nortex97 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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nortex97 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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nortex97 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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nortex97 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Can't argue any of the points, but you can accuse the person of falling for Putin propaganda. You won the debate. So smart. So brave.

---

Well...it IS his talking point. It's propaganda, but you believe it. Sorry I pointed out a fact.

Putin wants to get the band back together. This doesn't have to do with NATO. But, you're gullible enough to believe his lies.

We did it your way in 2014 when he took Crimea. What did get us? Oh yeah. He decided to take the rest of Ukraine because no one stopped him.

---

So your real issue is with how Obama, Biden, (GCF to an extent), John F Kerry (who oh by the way served in Vietnam), and Victoria Nuland handled Crimea in 2014.

Got it.

What 'band' does Putin, ostensibly per your post, want to put back together?

---

It's the RESPONSE, not who did it.

You want to do the same response and you're going to get the same result. Putin just showed. that.

And the Soviet Union/Iron Curtain. He'd love to have all that territory back - not because of NATO...

---

I do expect feckless incoherence from democrats, so that is partially fair, but no, I do not expect/want to 'do the same response.'

In fact, that is essentially my whole point, which you have stumbled onto without recognizing it. Foreign wars/conflicts/meat grinders started/managed by Democrats/our state department/intelligence agencies end disastrously for both the combatants (including our 'allies') and America since Vietnam.

I've seen no evidence Putin wants eastern Ukraine, specifically, as a territorial possession. Maybe he does, I dunno, whatever.

I don't care who runs Kiev and didn't when Moscow did it directly way back when I was in middle school, either. I didn't care when Nuland bragged about intervening on 'my' behalf on tape to '****' the EU/Russia either.





Did you?

Do you care that Obama and Biden thought the Nordstream pipelines were the right strategy for Germany/Russia to pursue?

Do you care that some Russian oligarchs are exempt from our sanctions list based on having paid the Biden family? Why or why not?

I know, these are uncomfortable questions for Dem-Biden Ukraine war backers. Sorry.

---

WTF? Strawman alert.

But, it's typical TexAgs. Don't agree with me you're a friggin far left liberal, rabble rabble rabble...

This has to do with response to Russian aggression vs Ukraine. Please try to focus, here...

I think ALL oligarchs should have sanctions, so take that stupid idea off your table...And I think Biden and the Dems are idiots. Doesn't mean we shouldn't help Ukraine.

---

So you've been here since 1999, care passionately about…Russian aggression toward Ukraine, and have no response to your thoughts from 2014 regarding Russia and Crimea/Ukraine. Interesting, I suspect basically the entirety of the war cheerleaders are similar.

---

I just told you my thoughts on 2014. Did you even read anything I posted?

---

Then show me what you said in 2014, 2015, or 2016. I apologize if I missed this directly-related outrage. Surely your anger about Russian aggression toward Ukraine didn't simply start in 2022 (or late 2021), right?

---

Anger? What anger?

You like to make things up, don't you?

I'm just pointing out that Putin expected the same result because nothing was done. You'd like that to happen again at which point he'd take all of Ukraine. And then start looking at the next country you'll ignore. Which maybe is Poland. And since you don't care about ignoring treaties apparently, their NATO membership wouldn't mean much to you...

American military production has not come close to keeping pace with Kyiv's demand for armaments, which has forced the U.S. to delay arms shipments to Taiwan.

This part of ur article is interesting.

I have said for a mo that now that China is very happy about this because the US funneling its stockpiles to Ukraine means we will have less to supply to Taiwan when China makes its move there between now and 2025.

The pro war hawks have shouted me down saying that the armaments we are supplying to Ukraine are useless by Taiwan.

This proves them wrong and shows why we need to draw the line.

China is 100% using this as an opportunity to assess their Russian copied armaments on the battlefield and to drain the west dry so we will not have the resources or morale to support the Taiwanese when China invades.

Taiwan deserves our support more than Ukraine and they are a more important strategic ally.

The war in Ukraine and the blank checks we have been writing them 100% helps China in their strategic goals and anyone who says differently is short sighted.

China has always been the bigger threat and not just to America, to the world.

Ag with kids said:

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nortex97 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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nortex97 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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nortex97 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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nortex97 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Can't argue any of the points, but you can accuse the person of falling for Putin propaganda. You won the debate. So smart. So brave.

---

Well...it IS his talking point. It's propaganda, but you believe it. Sorry I pointed out a fact.

Putin wants to get the band back together. This doesn't have to do with NATO. But, you're gullible enough to believe his lies.

We did it your way in 2014 when he took Crimea. What did get us? Oh yeah. He decided to take the rest of Ukraine because no one stopped him.

---

So your real issue is with how Obama, Biden, (GCF to an extent), John F Kerry (who oh by the way served in Vietnam), and Victoria Nuland handled Crimea in 2014.

Got it.

What 'band' does Putin, ostensibly per your post, want to put back together?

---

It's the RESPONSE, not who did it.

You want to do the same response and you're going to get the same result. Putin just showed. that.

And the Soviet Union/Iron Curtain. He'd love to have all that territory back - not because of NATO...

---

I do expect feckless incoherence from democrats, so that is partially fair, but no, I do not expect/want to 'do the same response.'

In fact, that is essentially my whole point, which you have stumbled onto without recognizing it. Foreign wars/conflicts/meat grinders started/managed by Democrats/our state department/intelligence agencies end disastrously for both the combatants (including our 'allies') and America since Vietnam.

I've seen no evidence Putin wants eastern Ukraine, specifically, as a territorial possession. Maybe he does, I dunno, whatever.

I don't care who runs Kiev and didn't when Moscow did it directly way back when I was in middle school, either. I didn't care when Nuland bragged about intervening on 'my' behalf on tape to '****' the EU/Russia either.





Did you?

Do you care that Obama and Biden thought the Nordstream pipelines were the right strategy for Germany/Russia to pursue?

Do you care that some Russian oligarchs are exempt from our sanctions list based on having paid the Biden family? Why or why not?

I know, these are uncomfortable questions for Dem-Biden Ukraine war backers. Sorry.

---

WTF? Strawman alert.

But, it's typical TexAgs. Don't agree with me you're a friggin far left liberal, rabble rabble rabble...

This has to do with response to Russian aggression vs Ukraine. Please try to focus, here...

I think ALL oligarchs should have sanctions, so take that stupid idea off your table...And I think Biden and the Dems are idiots. Doesn't mean we shouldn't help Ukraine.

---

So you've been here since 1999, care passionately about…Russian aggression toward Ukraine, and have no response to your thoughts from 2014 regarding Russia and Crimea/Ukraine. Interesting, I suspect basically the entirety of the war cheerleaders are similar.

---

I just told you my thoughts on 2014. Did you even read anything I posted?

---

Then show me what you said in 2014, 2015, or 2016. I apologize if I missed this directly-related outrage. Surely your anger about Russian aggression toward Ukraine didn't simply start in 2022 (or late 2021), right?

---

Anger? What anger?

You like to make things up, don't you?

I'm just pointing out that Putin expected the same result because nothing was done. You'd like that to happen again at which point he'd take all of Ukraine. And then start looking at the next country you'll ignore. Which maybe is Poland. And since you don't care about ignoring treaties apparently, their NATO membership wouldn't mean much to you...

---

There's a lot of anger in your post.

Yes, we should withdraw from nato. No, I don't want russia to roll over Poland. I once again am not real clear how that would unfold in some theoretical scenario given their inability to move a hundred miles or so into Ukraine. But whatever, you clearly didn't actually care in 2014, or you'd have said something at the time, and noted it here in retrospect (as would other war cheerleaders). Or when Nuland's recording about it was caught/released, and Ted Cruz grilled her. Or 'oh say can you see' Vindman, etc. Or…

This describes the Taiwan/Ukraine arms situation pretty well. In summary, there's little overlap.

https://warontherocks.com/2023/01/the-real-reasons-for-taiwans-arms-backlog-and-how-to-help-fill-it/

nortex97 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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nortex97 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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nortex97 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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nortex97 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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nortex97 said:

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Ag with kids said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Can't argue any of the points, but you can accuse the person of falling for Putin propaganda. You won the debate. So smart. So brave.

---

Well...it IS his talking point. It's propaganda, but you believe it. Sorry I pointed out a fact.

Putin wants to get the band back together. This doesn't have to do with NATO. But, you're gullible enough to believe his lies.

We did it your way in 2014 when he took Crimea. What did get us? Oh yeah. He decided to take the rest of Ukraine because no one stopped him.

---

So your real issue is with how Obama, Biden, (GCF to an extent), John F Kerry (who oh by the way served in Vietnam), and Victoria Nuland handled Crimea in 2014.

Got it.

What 'band' does Putin, ostensibly per your post, want to put back together?

---

It's the RESPONSE, not who did it.

You want to do the same response and you're going to get the same result. Putin just showed. that.

And the Soviet Union/Iron Curtain. He'd love to have all that territory back - not because of NATO...

---

I do expect feckless incoherence from democrats, so that is partially fair, but no, I do not expect/want to 'do the same response.'

In fact, that is essentially my whole point, which you have stumbled onto without recognizing it. Foreign wars/conflicts/meat grinders started/managed by Democrats/our state department/intelligence agencies end disastrously for both the combatants (including our 'allies') and America since Vietnam.

I've seen no evidence Putin wants eastern Ukraine, specifically, as a territorial possession. Maybe he does, I dunno, whatever.

I don't care who runs Kiev and didn't when Moscow did it directly way back when I was in middle school, either. I didn't care when Nuland bragged about intervening on 'my' behalf on tape to '****' the EU/Russia either.





Did you?

Do you care that Obama and Biden thought the Nordstream pipelines were the right strategy for Germany/Russia to pursue?

Do you care that some Russian oligarchs are exempt from our sanctions list based on having paid the Biden family? Why or why not?

I know, these are uncomfortable questions for Dem-Biden Ukraine war backers. Sorry.

---

WTF? Strawman alert.

But, it's typical TexAgs. Don't agree with me you're a friggin far left liberal, rabble rabble rabble...

This has to do with response to Russian aggression vs Ukraine. Please try to focus, here...

I think ALL oligarchs should have sanctions, so take that stupid idea off your table...And I think Biden and the Dems are idiots. Doesn't mean we shouldn't help Ukraine.

---

So you've been here since 1999, care passionately about…Russian aggression toward Ukraine, and have no response to your thoughts from 2014 regarding Russia and Crimea/Ukraine. Interesting, I suspect basically the entirety of the war cheerleaders are similar.

---

I just told you my thoughts on 2014. Did you even read anything I posted?

---

Then show me what you said in 2014, 2015, or 2016. I apologize if I missed this directly-related outrage. Surely your anger about Russian aggression toward Ukraine didn't simply start in 2022 (or late 2021), right?

---

Anger? What anger?

You like to make things up, don't you?

I'm just pointing out that Putin expected the same result because nothing was done. You'd like that to happen again at which point he'd take all of Ukraine. And then start looking at the next country you'll ignore. Which maybe is Poland. And since you don't care about ignoring treaties apparently, their NATO membership wouldn't mean much to you...

---

There's a lot of anger in your post.

Yes, we should withdraw from nato. No, I don't want russia to roll over Poland. I once again am not real clear how that would unfold in some theoretical scenario given their inability to move a hundred miles or so into Ukraine. But whatever, you clearly didn't actually care in 2014, or you'd have said something at the time, and noted it here in retrospect (as would other war cheerleaders). Or when Nuland's recording about it was caught/released, and Ted Cruz grilled her. Or 'oh say can you see' Vindman, etc. Or…

---

You are delusional. But, carry on...

And I don't necessarily comment on every subject on here. Could you please post all your comments on 2014 to show your support for letting Russia invade and steal sovereign territory like you'd like to allow now?

And withdraw from NATO? Should we be isolationist, too?

Rgd your post of Cruz grilling Nuland, let me get this straight…

The isolationist faction in the Rep party that says we shouldn't be involved in these conflicts, that Ukraine is not strategically significant and that we should stop meddling in the affairs of the region. It's Europe's problem, they can sort it out, blah blah blah.

Now you are circling back to take another shot at Biden for causing the war due to stopping sanctions on NS2 (ie ceasing sanctions & meddling on said region)?

mike0305 said:

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Rgd your post of Cruz grilling Nuland, let me get this straight…

The isolationist faction in the Rep party that says we shouldn't be involved in these conflicts, that Ukraine is not strategically significant and that we should stop meddling in the affairs of the region. It's Europe's problem, they can sort it out, blah blah blah.

Now you are circling back to take another shot at Biden for causing the war due to stopping sanctions on NS2 (ie ceasing sanctions & meddling on said region)?

---

The problem is that Biden and his ilk muddled first and created a problem vis a vis the coup in 2014.

Then they let the region run amok so long as they got their cut. (10%) for the big guy.

If our politicians hadn't done the Coup then we would have no reason to be obligated to provide aid. And to that end we still aren't- the people running the show there are crooked, installed by our own crooked politicians.

The Coup being done, we should have encouraged Ukraine to negotiate, retain the people who want a soveirgn Ukraine, allowed the defecting regions to go back to Russia.

But Biden and the Military Industrial Complex saw an opportunity to make bank and skim off the top- Ukraine gets untraceable weapons and cash they can funnel back to swamp rats in DC &

The military industrial complex gets to make bank restockpiling our munitions as we get rid of our stockpile.

So they told Zelensky not to negotiate so that everyone can get their cut.

Civilians get ****ed and the war rages on but the elites enrich themselves so they will keep up "We need to kill Russians no matter the cost and consequences" propaganda.

Similar to how these same people kept up the "2 more weeks to save another life" mantra.

Has it not struck you guys as odd that the method of propaganda for both has been the same type of appeal and coming from the same sources?

mike0305 said:

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Rgd your post of Cruz grilling Nuland, let me get this straight…

The isolationist faction in the Rep party that says we shouldn't be involved in these conflicts, that Ukraine is not strategically significant and that we should stop meddling in the affairs of the region. It's Europe's problem, they can sort it out, blah blah blah.

Now you are circling back to take another shot at Biden for causing the war due to stopping sanctions on NS2 (ie ceasing sanctions & meddling on said region)?

---

Not sure what your question is.

Yes, we shouldn't have forced a governmental change in Ukraine/meddled.

No, it is not a strategically important country to us.

No, I don't care about their magical 1882, 1917, 1956, 1993, 2014, or 2023 borders being different.

No, I don't trust Biden in any of his many, many decades of visiting Russian leaders since 1979 (all of them) and being special envoy to Ukraine as VP and his son being a 7 figure advisor to Ukrainian energy firms subject to investigations/corruption.

No, I don't excuse his advocacy for NS2, nor blowing it up.

Poster above you asked (can't remember who, page before now) what I said in 2014. I dunno, look it up, I probably paid little attention because then like now I didn't think it was worth the US interfering over, though I expect I had plenty of comments on this forum about Obama's dishonest/negative foreign policy positions…that weakened the US. It's interesting some Democrat backers now support interfering to go back to 2014 borders, for some reason because Russia/Putin is mean/evil etc.

HTH!

Great, another it's "all the Dems fault" post in a massive redirect.

McCain was involved in 2013/2014 Ukraine, no? What party did he represent?
The Rep hopeful candidate Desantis, what was his position back then? Oh yea, that was to send more weapons, including Javelins.

So, back to my original point, do we continue to project influence in other countries politics if Reps come to power? Or are we going to sit home, netflix and tucker?

Were reps wrong to sanction NS2 in the first place?

mike0305 said:

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Great, another it's "all the Dems fault" post in a massive redirect.

McCain was involved in 2013/2014 Ukraine, no? What party did he represent?
The Rep hopeful candidate Desantis, what was his position back then? Oh yea, that was to send more weapons, including Javelins.

So, back to my original point, do we continue to project influence in other countries politics if Reps come to power? Or are we going to sit home, netflix and tucker?

Were reps wrong to sanction NS2 in the first place?

---

Well you can't lament partisanship while…lamenting Republicans.

McCain; yes, he was always a problem. Happy to call out republicans as such.
DeSantis: I dunno? What did he say about it in 2014? What did Bernie or Kamala say?
NS2: should never have been championed by the uniparty/swamp/mostly Dems/Germany.

Tucker Carlston? Ok. Not even worth addressing.

Why should we trust Biden/State/CIA/DoD et al. to run (and escalate, yay!) this risky operation/war from DC? LOL. No, there is no need to answer that, it's obviously rhetorical.

Dodging my isolationist question again.

Rgd Desantis, here you go. His historical support for Ukraine is well documented. I liked that Desantis better than the current one.
https://www.businessinsider.com/desantis-flip-flops-on-ukraine-aid-after-backing-sending-arms-2023-3

I'm done.

Ah, business insider, cnn, and k-file. I see.

I plan to vote for DeSantis in 2024's primary. I do disagree with his 2015 statement, though much of the rest of that article was editorialized framing.

I don't think we needed to (further) arm 'Ukraine' (the government in power there today) to fight a (losing) war of attrition against Russia in 2014, or today. It's morally and strategically wrong.

It's interesting the timing of it all though. The democrats/swamp seemed to want a Ukrainian government change in 2014, as we know. The layers of complexity are ill-suited to message-board gotcha's I guess. There are reasons Joe Biden bragged about demanding an official be replaced before he went wheels up from Kiev. Hmmm…sunofa*****.

Not sure what the 'isolationist' question is. I would support not becoming involved/entangled in any asian/European land wars moving forward. Weird, I know. I see no net benefit to my family/state to continued membership in nato, or the UN for that matter.

nortex97 said:

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Ah, business insider, cnn, and k-file. I see.

I plan to vote for DeSantis in 2024's primary. I do disagree with his 2015 statement, though much of the rest of that article was editorialized framing.

I don't think we needed to (further) arm 'Ukraine' (the government in power there today) to fight a (losing) war of attrition against Russia in 2014, or today. It's morally and strategically wrong.

It's interesting the timing of it all though. The democrats/swamp seemed to want a Ukrainian government change in 2014, as we know. The layers of complexity are ill-suited to message-board gotcha's I guess. There are reasons Joe Biden bragged about demanding an official be replaced before he went wheels up from Kiev. Hmmm…sunofa*****.

Not sure what the 'isolationist' question is. I would support not becoming involved/entangled in any asian/European land wars moving forward. Weird, I know. I see no net benefit to my family/state to continued membership in nato, or the UN for that matter.

---

So, you don't understand that our economy is global. And that bad things happening there actually affects our economy. Gotcha.

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Ah, business insider, cnn, and k-file. I see.

I plan to vote for DeSantis in 2024's primary. I do disagree with his 2015 statement, though much of the rest of that article was editorialized framing.

I don't think we needed to (further) arm 'Ukraine' (the government in power there today) to fight a (losing) war of attrition against Russia in 2014, or today. It's morally and strategically wrong.

It's interesting the timing of it all though. The democrats/swamp seemed to want a Ukrainian government change in 2014, as we know. The layers of complexity are ill-suited to message-board gotcha's I guess. There are reasons Joe Biden bragged about demanding an official be replaced before he went wheels up from Kiev. Hmmm…sunofa*****.

Not sure what the 'isolationist' question is. I would support not becoming involved/entangled in any asian/European land wars moving forward. Weird, I know. I see no net benefit to my family/state to continued membership in nato, or the UN for that matter.

---

So, you don't understand that our economy is global. And that bad things happening there actually affects our economy. Gotcha.

---

Ok, sure bud.

nortex97 said:

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Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

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Ah, business insider, cnn, and k-file. I see.

I plan to vote for DeSantis in 2024's primary. I do disagree with his 2015 statement, though much of the rest of that article was editorialized framing.

I don't think we needed to (further) arm 'Ukraine' (the government in power there today) to fight a (losing) war of attrition against Russia in 2014, or today. It's morally and strategically wrong.

It's interesting the timing of it all though. The democrats/swamp seemed to want a Ukrainian government change in 2014, as we know. The layers of complexity are ill-suited to message-board gotcha's I guess. There are reasons Joe Biden bragged about demanding an official be replaced before he went wheels up from Kiev. Hmmm…sunofa*****.

Not sure what the 'isolationist' question is. I would support not becoming involved/entangled in any asian/European land wars moving forward. Weird, I know. I see no net benefit to my family/state to continued membership in nato, or the UN for that matter.

---

So, you don't understand that our economy is global. And that bad things happening there actually affects our economy. Gotcha.

---

Ok, sure bud.

---

Glad you agree!

Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Ah, business insider, cnn, and k-file. I see.

I plan to vote for DeSantis in 2024's primary. I do disagree with his 2015 statement, though much of the rest of that article was editorialized framing.

I don't think we needed to (further) arm 'Ukraine' (the government in power there today) to fight a (losing) war of attrition against Russia in 2014, or today. It's morally and strategically wrong.

It's interesting the timing of it all though. The democrats/swamp seemed to want a Ukrainian government change in 2014, as we know. The layers of complexity are ill-suited to message-board gotcha's I guess. There are reasons Joe Biden bragged about demanding an official be replaced before he went wheels up from Kiev. Hmmm…sunofa*****.

Not sure what the 'isolationist' question is. I would support not becoming involved/entangled in any asian/European land wars moving forward. Weird, I know. I see no net benefit to my family/state to continued membership in nato, or the UN for that matter.

---

So, you don't understand that our economy is global. And that bad things happening there actually affects our economy. Gotcha.

---

Please explain how the Ukraine war keeps our global economy roaring. Excited to hear the in depth analysis im sure you have.

Also note how he said land war. No one is challenging us on the seas. So that leaves most trade open and even more our ability to destroy trade for other countries. So our global economy isn't under attack. Though Im not a big global economy gut these days.

texagbeliever said:

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Ag with kids said:

---

nortex97 said:

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Ah, business insider, cnn, and k-file. I see.

I plan to vote for DeSantis in 2024's primary. I do disagree with his 2015 statement, though much of the rest of that article was editorialized framing.

I don't think we needed to (further) arm 'Ukraine' (the government in power there today) to fight a (losing) war of attrition against Russia in 2014, or today. It's morally and strategically wrong.

It's interesting the timing of it all though. The democrats/swamp seemed to want a Ukrainian government change in 2014, as we know. The layers of complexity are ill-suited to message-board gotcha's I guess. There are reasons Joe Biden bragged about demanding an official be replaced before he went wheels up from Kiev. Hmmm…sunofa*****.

Not sure what the 'isolationist' question is. I would support not becoming involved/entangled in any asian/European land wars moving forward. Weird, I know. I see no net benefit to my family/state to continued membership in nato, or the UN for that matter.

---

So, you don't understand that our economy is global. And that bad things happening there actually affects our economy. Gotcha.

---

Please explain how the Ukraine war keeps our global economy roaring. Excited to hear the in depth analysis im sure you have.

Also note how he said land war. No one is challenging us on the seas. So that leaves most trade open and even more our ability to destroy trade for other countries. So our global economy isn't under attack. Though Im not a big global economy gut these days.

---

Stopping Putin from just taking over whatever country he wants might not be a bad idea. Why would he stop at Ukraine?

And he said no ASIANS either. So, China can take over S Korea and Taiwan - doesn't affect our navy - those are land wars. No biggie, though. We need to ignore those things. Isolationism is king!!!

And if our economy wasn't global, it would be a tiny fraction of the size it is now...

So that is no known impact to our global economy if putin takes Ukraine. Just some hypothetical that if a weak russia extends even further into far more powerful countries that will impact us. Got it.

S. Korea has nukes and would immediately drag Japan in as well. The USA would likely cut off all economic activity which would be financially devastating for China. If America started working to bring manufacturing back home away from China we could damage them before they think about being imperialistic.

Also history of China's expansion shows their preference for manipulating the political class and coming to dominate that landscape where the country capitulates from the inside. See southeast Asia.

Oh and what would be key in a war with China... getting Russia to take our side. So concession of some eastern country and land might be necessary to ally them with us against China. Without Russian oil/energy they would be in a rough spot. But you neocons are so obsessed with defeating some Hollywood boogeyman of Russia you can't see anything beyond the immediate threat.

Rgd Desantis, honestly I just grabbed the first article I saw when I googled. His position is common knowledge. You seem pretty well informed so I'm surprised you haven't heard this.

My point on "Isolationist" is this recent Rep trope that we shouldn't get involved in foreign affairs. I hear this repeated ad nauseam here recently and I don't think most have a clue what it means, or just how gray that line is.

So, the Budapest memorandum. A clinton deal, but our aim was nuke non proliferation & largely bipartisan. We guaranteed security for Ukraine. I guess we shouldn't do these deals anymore, right? Who cares about nuke proliferation and upholding agreements.

And the Nordstream2 sanctions that were republican, let's not engage in such acts anymore. We don't care what happens there right? And while we're at it, let's skip attacks on Biden since we shouldn't have done it in the first place.

There was a ton of Rep involvement in Ukraine historically, including your chosen pres nominee. So let's skip all the obscure crap about biden that is unproven at best? Yea sure, it's all his fault.