Russia/Ukraine from Another Perspective (Relaunch Part Deux)

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nortex97
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AG




Not much point to putting your flags on a pile of rubble, imho.

nortex97
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Nato expands further, Russians threaten to 'get tough' with EU/Nato, meat grinder continues, oil prices spike again...

Teslag
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Ags4DaWin said:

Teslag said:

nortex97 said:

Teslag said:

How are they not "free"? They are a sovereign nation, and wish to remain so. You can argue that parts of the Donbas do not, but overall most do. And they have the right to die for that belief.
It's a totalitarian country without a free press, limited religious freedom (ROC shut out), closed borders (not allowed to leave), a long-standing genuine nazi problem, single party (11 opposition parties banned), operating under martial law, a government that began banning books in 2016, and intensifying forced conscription.

Sure, other than those minor details, they are just as free as any Texan.

I'm again amazed how much some folks buy into propaganda/narratives.

So for that they deserve to be invaded by a hostile foreign adversary? When does a nation give up their sovereignty? They fight awfully hard for a people that doesn't want to remain that way and are purely conscripts...


You made the argument that they deserve freedom.

It was pointed out that the Ukrainian people under the current regime don't have freedom.

So you conveniently changed ur argument that they deserve soveirgnty.

I am just gonna point tout that the big reason we invaded Afghanistan was to help people get freedom.

So as was pointed out- if Ukraine wasn't "free", especially for the groups that Russia cared about, why is the US allowed to invade countries to free certain people but Russia is not?

Just curious.


We shouldn't have invaded invaded Afghanistan for any reason other than to kill and destroy those responsible for 9/11. Should have done that and left. Afghanis should be free to choose to live under tribalism if they want. It's their country.
nortex97
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Day by day, inexorably, the war widens economically, politically, and on the battlefields.
oh no
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nortex97
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So, is Ukraine pulling back from/giving up in Bakhmut? Maybe/I guess? Sounds like Zelensky is washing his hands of it.





nortex97
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Not a peep from potus poopy pants:



The 'yay, war!' folks/cheerleaders on the internet on the other side; Russian mil-bloggers;

Quote:

Russia's military bloggers first garnered wider attention in 2014, when Russian-backed separatists launched an armed rebellion against the Ukrainian government in the eastern Donbas region.

The bloggers shot to further popularity after Russia invaded Ukraine last year and struggled to make headway, providing detailed updates as the Russian people were looking to understand the complexities of the war.

Bloggers post frequently on Telegram and often include maps, pictures and videos to accompany written analysis. Many of them have contacts deep in the military or on the front line.

Western media outlets and other organizations that provide war coverage, such as the Institute for the Study of War (ISW), sometimes cite the bloggers in articles for insight into Russian thinking.

And they are likely to remain a central cog in Russia's propaganda machine as long as Putin sees their value, with the Kremlin able to elevate favorable bloggers by offering them television appearances.

Natasha Groom, a senior adviser with the nonprofit negotiation organization Inter Mediate, wrote in an analysis piece published in NATO's Defense College that Russian bloggers offer "largely unfiltered updates and eyewitness accounts has transformed them into popular sources of information."

"The pro-war bloggers are fulfilling multiple and nuanced functions in Russia," Groom wrote in the article first published in January and updated last month.
oh no
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Do you as an American realize how absolutely fragile our Ponzi scheme economy is? As I mentioned before, the US and EU stealing Russia's 300 billion dollars worth of foreign reserves has caused a chain reaction around the world, now moving at lightning speed. The West has weaponized currency, a HUGE no no in international relations. China has now reached a point economically to be a serious threat to the US. A very scary perfect storm is coming directly for the US economy within the next 3 years. Liberal economies are all totally interconnected with the US economy.

THE WEST
GDP-26.3 trillion Debt-31.7 trillion
GDP-4.5 trillion Debt-13.3 trillion
GDP-4.2 trillion Debt-3.3 trillion
GDP-3.5 trillion Debt-3.7 trillion
GDP-2.9 trillion Debt-3.7 trillion
GDP-2.1 trillion Debt-3.6 trillion
GDP-1.8 trillion Debt-2.3 trillion
GDP-1.4 trillion Debt-1.9 trillion
GDP-614 billion Debt-757 billion
GDP-266 billion Debt-384 billion
GDP-231 billion Debt-525 billion

What is the common denominator within these top tier Western economies? DEBT.

THE EAST
GDP-17.6 trillion Debt-14.3 trillion
GDP-3.4 trillion Debt-3.3 trillion
GDP-2.2 trillion Debt-423 billion
GDP-2.0 trillion Debt-2.1 trillion
GDP-1.6 trillion Debt-674 billion (2021)
GDP-1.1 trillion Debt-359 billion
GDP-419 billion Debt-289 billion (2021)

How long do you think these NATO nations and their Pacific drag alongs will last funding this Ukraine proxy war? The US Dollar, as we speak, is in the process of being dumped as the world's reserve currency. Countries all over the world are pledging to use the Chinese Renminbi and Indian Rupee. Saudi Arabia is dropping the Petrodollar and allowing multiple currencies to purchase its oil, a mega blow to the US Dollar. Japan, a slave of the Rules Based International Order, just broke its chains and started purchasing oil from Russia against the oil embargo. Brazil just today agreed to use the Renminbi in trade with China. As less and less nations utilize the US Dollar, the less we will be able to export our domestic debt and inflation to other countries.

US
Astronomical debt
Unbalanced budget (overspending)
High inflation
High fuel costs
Death of global reserve currency status
Blowback from economic sanctions
Focused on societal division and political vendettas

The Federal Reserve Bank will be forced to raise the interest rate so high to combat this tsunami of economic factors hitting the US economy, it will destroy it.

Russia
Vladimir Putin though ever stoic, has become a worldwide symbol of defiance against the Rules Based International Order. More and more nations are giving the middle finger to the US and its crony Liberal order. If you haven't noticed, countries are starting to tilt towards Russia as this war progresses in Ukraine, not vice versa. Europe is being de-industrialized, the US economy is being destroyed by its own idiotic government, and Russia's economy is on a full war production footing. China, India, Iran, South Africa, Saudi Arabia, Brazil, Argentina, and Russia's usual allies will remain beside Vladimir Putin.

CONCLUSION
Vladimir Putin's position has only strengthened on the world stage as time has passed. Russia WILL win this war because the nations of the Global South will never allow Russia to lose it. Russia's cause is THEIR cause!
texagbeliever
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This would have saved us a bunch of time on this thread: https://babylonbee.com/news/people-who-tweet-in-support-of-foreign-wars-to-be-automatically-enlisted-in-armed-forces
oh no
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notex
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"Disinformation" and "Russian" are just euphemisms nowadays for things the CCP/Democrats don't want the public to know. About 20K Russian deaths to about 70K Ukrainian ones and we are 'helping' them by pushing this along?
FJB24
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I can't imagine why the Russians might feel threatened by a western/European backed Army in Ukraine.



It sounds like Bakhmut really is…over.





So this is really just a very old way the Russians have fought wars, maybe.
nortex97
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Whelp, I guess no more aid packages for Ukraine.
twk
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Quoting Scott Ritter pretty much guts your post
Stat Monitor Repairman
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People are finally starting to come around to where some of us were at a year-and-a-half ago.

Thats the wild thing about all this.

Said what would happen when this all started and people raged. It's like covid all over again.
nortex97
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Big shocker.
nortex97
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FYI everyone, an important anniversary in the history of major land wars in Europe is today.



This is relevant as we face an expanding land war, by choice, vs. the Russians, to many folks' great joy. It began with the Prussians (ignore the "P") seizing/invading the poor Silesians opportunistically, without even a premise of de-nazification.

Slava Silesia, which is basically gone today, though perhaps we should also support insurrectionists to challenge the totalitarian Polish/German/Czech overlords.
Stat Monitor Repairman
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Twitter reinstates Putin.
nortex97
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Quote:

  • Leaked US intelligence documents appear indicate that Egypt was planning to covertly supply Russia with rockets and munitions. A document, dated 17 February, claims to summarise conversations between President Abdel Fatah al-Sisi and senior Egyptian military officials. In the document, Sisi instructs officials to keep the production and shipment of rockets secret "to avoid problems with the west", and additionally also references plans to supply Russia with artillery rounds and gunpowder.
  • The US is attempting to mend fences with key allies, after leaked Pentagon documents claimed that Washington had been spying on friendly nations, including South Korea and Israel.
  • Russia continues to make gains in Bakhmut, but is suffering "significant" casualties in the process, the Institute for the Study of War, a US thinktank, says in its latest update.

The US intelligence leak really was a pathetic example of our ineptitude, which I expect from our state/intelligence apparatus at this point. (Above is from The Guardian). These leaks were on some damn call of duty discord server for weeks/months before being moved to a bigger server and then taken/copied to a Russian telegram account?

Quote:

The first appearance of the documents appears to have been on a server called Thug Shaker Central (among other names) as far back as October. The server was set up on the Discord platform for gamers by a few people who had met on another server for fans of Oxide, a YouTuber who posts video discussions about guns, body armour, night vision mounts and the like. There is some suggestion that these associates were outcasts because they were considered too racist. One of the alternative names for Thug Shaker Central included a racial slur.

According to former users of Thug Shaker Central, the role of the server's administrator was passed along more than once before the suspected leaker was put in charge. At some point in October he (and it is thought from the context that the leaker was male) posted the first leaked documents, seemingly to show off to 19 fellow members on a channel he set up about Ukraine called "Bear vs Pig". The title is thought to be a reference to a video that went viral last year about two pigs fighting off a black bear in Connecticut.

Some of the other users posted "wow" responses, and the leaker put up more documents over time, but nothing further occurred. No one was in a hurry to spread the documents any further.

"The channel was sharing updates about the war, but most of them weren't really into the war," Toler said. "It was mostly people playing Call of Duty and going on voice chat and sharing memes or whatever. It was young people. Some of them were teenagers."

Also, The Ukrainians are now in Canada begging for more free crap:

Quote:

Ukrainian prime minister Denys Shmyhal has arrived in Canada, on an official trip during which he will seek supplies of ammunition and armoured vehicles for a counteroffensive against invading Russian forces, the Globe and Mail reports.

Shmyhal said in an interview with the Canadian newspaper that he was not concerned about the lack of new military aid allocated for Ukraine in Canada's federal budget, and hoped the country would provide more aid among other forms of assistance.
oh no
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I thought this thread was for other, non-ww3 fanboy perspectives on Ukraine.

I know it was very exciting that we installed a corrupt, senile leader, armed the taliban, and wokified our military to embolden foreign adversaries. And it's great fun to be deploying so much taxpayer money and so many military assets to Eastern Europe, to be sabotaging other counties' energy infrastructure, and to be drawing Russia, China, and Iran closer together while our commander in chief is not only senile, but also has conflicts of interest with Ukraine, Russia, and China. However wonderful and righteous all of this is to some people because Putin bad, it would be nice to have a thread for "Putin stooges" who aren't loving all of this and don't get excited about a posible nuclear Armageddon while clowns are running the show.

I think there's already another thread for the Putin is pure evil and nato is holy and righteous, 'as long as it takes', 'no matter the costs' war lovers.
nortex97
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This is what the war pimps think is so great;

Tom Kazansky 2012
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oh no said:

I thought this thread was for other, non-ww3 fanboy perspectives on Ukraine.

I know it was very exciting that we installed a corrupt, senile leader, armed the taliban, and wokified our military to embolden foreign adversaries. And it's great fun to be deploying so much taxpayer money and so many military assets to Eastern Europe, to be sabotaging other counties' energy infrastructure, and to be drawing Russia, China, and Iran closer together while our commander in chief is not only senile, but also has conflicts of interest with Ukraine, Russia, and China. However wonderful and righteous all of this is to some people because Putin bad, it would be nice to have a thread for "Putin stooges" who aren't loving all of this and don't get excited about a posible nuclear Armageddon while clowns are running the show.

I think there's already another thread for the Putin is pure evil and nato is holy and righteous, 'as long as it takes', 'no matter the costs' war lovers.
Ag with kids
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[Stop derailing the thread -- Staff]
nortex97
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Russia's rise: American Thinker piece:

Quote:

The West's sweeping sanctions on Russia following its invasion of Ukraine are shaping up to be the West's most monumental miscalculation in modern history. The sanctions have not brought the Russian economy to its knees, as was widely predicted. Instead, it's the Western economies that are reeling, their economic growth all but stopped. Many of them are simultaneously suffering from both high inflation and energy shortages.

Russia, meanwhile, is not only surviving but thriving, acquiring more potency and prestige throughout Asia, Africa and South America than at any time since the collapse of the Soviet Union.

According to the IMF, the Russian economy will grow faster than Germany's or the UK's this year. Next year, it will also grow faster than those of the U.S., Japan, Italy, and much of the rest of the West, its growth in GDP per capita will exceed that of the advanced economies as a whole, and it will achieve the lowest debt-to-GDP ratio among the G20 nations. Russia's unemployment rate of 3.5% is the lowest since the Soviet Union fell. Russia's economic performance -- S&P Global recently confirmed its bullish private sector business confidence -- is all the more remarkable since Russia is simultaneously fighting an expensive proxy war against the combined weight of the armories of the West.

As NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg told reporters at the U.S. State Department in February, the West to date has provided unprecedented supportto Ukraine, with around $120 billion in military, humanitarian and financial assistance. The transfer of military materiel has been so extensive that many of the NATO countries' arsenals have been depleted: Germany is down to two days of ammunition and is now unable to defend itself, according to the country's defence minister; the UK's stockpiles of ammunition would last but a few days in battle; France is facing "a major shortage of munitions," and the US military now doubts its ability to both continue to supply Ukraine and maintain its own readiness. "The current rate of Ukraine's ammunition expenditure is many times higher than our current production rate," states Stoltenberg.
Big shocker that Joe Biden (CCP), who has never been right about a foreign policy issue of any import in 50 years in DC, and has met with every single Russian/Soviet president/premier since the 70's, has wound up facilitating a Russian economic resurgence via his idiotic sanction regime, while the Sino-Russian alliance is strengthened and our arsenal to possibly rely on in a conflict involving China is depleted.

Meanwhile Polish farmers on strike over Ukrainian grain causing bankruptcies there.

Utterly pathetic that some would characterize opposition to this stupid war as 'unpatriotic' in any way.
Tom Kazansky 2012
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nortex97 said:

Russia's rise: American Thinker piece:

Quote:

The West's sweeping sanctions on Russia following its invasion of Ukraine are shaping up to be the West's most monumental miscalculation in modern history. The sanctions have not brought the Russian economy to its knees, as was widely predicted. Instead, it's the Western economies that are reeling, their economic growth all but stopped. Many of them are simultaneously suffering from both high inflation and energy shortages.

Russia, meanwhile, is not only surviving but thriving, acquiring more potency and prestige throughout Asia, Africa and South America than at any time since the collapse of the Soviet Union.

According to the IMF, the Russian economy will grow faster than Germany's or the UK's this year. Next year, it will also grow faster than those of the U.S., Japan, Italy, and much of the rest of the West, its growth in GDP per capita will exceed that of the advanced economies as a whole, and it will achieve the lowest debt-to-GDP ratio among the G20 nations. Russia's unemployment rate of 3.5% is the lowest since the Soviet Union fell. Russia's economic performance -- S&P Global recently confirmed its bullish private sector business confidence -- is all the more remarkable since Russia is simultaneously fighting an expensive proxy war against the combined weight of the armories of the West.

As NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg told reporters at the U.S. State Department in February, the West to date has provided unprecedented supportto Ukraine, with around $120 billion in military, humanitarian and financial assistance. The transfer of military materiel has been so extensive that many of the NATO countries' arsenals have been depleted: Germany is down to two days of ammunition and is now unable to defend itself, according to the country's defence minister; the UK's stockpiles of ammunition would last but a few days in battle; France is facing "a major shortage of munitions," and the US military now doubts its ability to both continue to supply Ukraine and maintain its own readiness. "The current rate of Ukraine's ammunition expenditure is many times higher than our current production rate," states Stoltenberg.
Big shocker that Joe Biden (CCP), who has never been right about a foreign policy issue of any import in 50 years in DC, and has met with every single Russian/Soviet president/premier since the 70's, has wound up facilitating a Russian economic resurgence via his idiotic sanction regime, while the Sino-Russian alliance is strengthened and our arsenal to possibly rely on in a conflict involving China is depleted.

Meanwhile Polish farmers on strike over Ukrainian grain causing bankruptcies there.

Utterly pathetic that some would characterize opposition to this stupid war as 'unpatriotic' in any way.

I for one am shocked that there are unforeseen consequences to the proxy wars we have seen literally dozens of times over the years but we continue to meddle in these types of things because

A. Our unscrupulous politicians and weapons manufacturers keep the money flowing through their tests for the politicians' pockets,
B. Our clapping seal idiots will pound their chest and call anyone in opposition to the conflict an Ivan anyway.
nortex97
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Couple interesting videos;



Malibu
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There goes good faith Tommy K with another fair minded take that accurately describes the opinions of people who think different than he does.
Stat Monitor Repairman
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How many US troops are staged in Romania? Anyone know?
Teslag
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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

How many US troops are staged in Romania? Anyone know?

Not sure off hand. I was offered a chance to deploy there a few years ago. Our presence both there and Poland has been significantly increasing. Especially as we close more and more bases in Germany.
Tom Kazansky 2012
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Admiral Adama said:

There goes good faith Tommy K with another fair minded take that accurately describes the opinions of people who think different than he does.

Fair-minded? I spare no quarter for your corrupt demons you apologize for.
Malibu
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Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

Admiral Adama said:

There goes good faith Tommy K with another fair minded take that accurately describes the opinions of people who think different than he does.

Fair-minded? I spare no quarter for your corrupt demons you apologize for.

If you were paying in quarters, every time you said something untrue about what your opponents think you'd be broke right now.
nortex97
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DoD quietly investigates Ukrainian corruption.

Quote:

I'm not sure how this slipped out of the White House PR department, but it's an interesting side-story related to America's seemingly endless flow of cash and weapons to Ukraine. It turns out that the Inspector General for the Defense Department has been conducting an investigation into potential corruption in the Ukrainian government. Particularly when it comes to all of the weapons and ammunition, one person from the IG office said that the DoD "is concerned about the potential diversion or legal export, or theft for that matter, of the goods." And at least thus far, they're reportedly having a difficult time tracking it all down. (Defense One)
Quote:

Just in January of this year, there were several high-ranking Ukrainian officials fired for lining their pockets with money intended to buy food for their troops. Even the White House and the New York Times (!) were forced to admit that was true, though the story dropped off of the front pages like a rock. But ask yourself one question in this regard. Those were just the people that they managed to catch. How many more of them were sufficiently clever to conceal their deeds?

I'll just remind everyone once again that Zelensky's reputation prior to the war was nothing to write home about until Vladimir Putin turned him into a rock star talking about he didn't "need a ride." Before the war, he threw his primary political opponent in prison and he shut down state media outlets that reported unfavorably about his administration. Just this January he signed a new law allowing the government to block news outlets online. If a bunch of our money goes missing, we have no right to act shocked.
Shocked, as I am sure all reading this are.
oh no
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nortex97 said:

Quote:

he threw his primary political opponent in prison and he shut down media outlets that reported unfavorably about his administration. Just this January he signed a new law allowing the government to block news outlets online.

no wonder democrats cream their pants over Zelensky.
Tom Kazansky 2012
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Admiral Adama said:

Tom Kazansky 2012 said:

Admiral Adama said:

There goes good faith Tommy K with another fair minded take that accurately describes the opinions of people who think different than he does.

Fair-minded? I spare no quarter for your corrupt demons you apologize for.

If you were paying in quarters, every time you said something untrue about what your opponents think you'd be broke right now.
Are you just ignoring all the other posts? genuinely curious how you can still say that with a straight face.
ABATTBQ11
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From the Defense One article being quoted...

Quote:

Former President Donald Trump, Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, and others on the far right frequently describe Ukraine as a nation permanently beset by corruption at the highest levels. But is that reputation well deserved?

During the rule of Putin-ally Viktor Yanukovych, Ukraine was known for high levels of corruption across the government. It was during that period that Ukraine achieved its lowest score on Transparency International's corruption index.

But when Ukrainians expelled Yanukovych from power in 2014 to forge a new path, closer to Europe and the United States, it was in part a reaction to the mechanisms of corruption that the Kremlin used to infiltrate and undermine Ukrainian self-governance, Serhii Mytkalyk, chairman of the board of the non-governmental Ukrainian organization Anti-Corruption Headquarters, told Defense One.

Since that time, Ukraine has undertaken a series of reforms, set up online accounting procedures (particularly for foreign aid), and established new offices and organizations like the Anti-Corruption Headquarters.

"We have made strong progress in the fight against corruption. A number of institutions have been created, for example, a specialized anti-corruption prosecutor's office, the National Agency on Corruption Prevention and so on, that make it possible to bring to justice those who were…previously the untouchable. There were some untouchable people," Mytkalyk said. That's the biggest change, he said. Now, the state has an interest in directly prosecuting corruption rather than risk losing vital financial support from the West.

The January sacking of a number of high-ranking Ukrainian officials on corruption charges is a sign that Ukraine's methods for finding corruption are working and are necessary, Mytkalyk said.

Ukraine also is employing a number of online tools to reassure Western observers on governmental integrity and transparency, such as an online procurement system officials can use to more easily track and model requests. There's also Diia, which allows Ukraine's citizens to document war-related property damage through photos and also access government services online. Mytkalyk's organization has a tool that alerts authorities when a contracting official makes an award to a relative.

But while those efforts may help Ukraine's anti-corruption efforts internally, they don't help the IG's office directly, because the IG can't just take a tool developed by a country that is a target for surveillance and use that tool as if it was developed by the United States. And the United States' footprint is severely limited in Ukraine.

"Unlike Afghanistan and Iraq, we don't have combat troops. And in Ukraine, the DOD, its presence itself [at the embassy] is 12," the IG official said.

"I wouldn't interpret that to mean that the oversight is not comprehensive," he said. "During the pandemic we weren't always able to have eyes on. And we did have to implement alternative procedures to obtain reasonable assurance that things were properly accounted for, or make a determination that they're not accounted for."

For instance, on the battlefield, Ukrainian forces use handheld scanners that transmit data directly back to the Pentagon, Defense Department Undersecretary of Defense for Policy told lawmakers in February.
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