Bullet Train is Back!

17,521 Views | 273 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Sgt. Schultz
LOYAL AG
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This thing will sink or swim based on its ability to poach travelers that regularly fly from Houston to Dallas and back. Some time ago I did some very basic research that showed there are roughly 35 flights from one of the Houston airports to Love Field. IMO DFW isn't relevant as is too far from disown Dallas to be viable. That might be wrong obviously.

35 flights most of which are 737 and have roughly 150 seats. That's 5250 fares per day each way. Average cost is probably $100? Can this thing poach a material portion of that traffic? It won't succeed on anything in or out of BCS, that's all gravy.
A fearful society is a compliant society. That's why Democrats and criminals prefer their victims to be unarmed. Gun Control is not about guns, it's about control.
Kenneth_2003
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LOYAL AG said:

It's clear OP is emotionally attached to this issue which is almost never a good starting point for a debate. Some things he's gotten wrong

- private companies aren't entitled to eminent domain. This isn't capitalism it's corruption. We just haven't figured out who got paid yet.
- there aren't millions of Texans without cars period and certainly not ones that regularly travel from Houston to Dallas or vice versa. This is simply factually incorrect.
- expanding I-45 by one lane each way wouldn't require eminent domain as the land is already part of the I-45 corridor.
- there are no trains in the US that are profitable on fare revenue. All systems are taxpayer subsidized.
- Texas politicians and California politicians aren't different animals. They're both humans so they're both motivated by the same things, money and power.
- the stop servicing BCS is in Roan's Prairie which at a minimum means a whole lot of Uber traffic on Hwy 30 from a stop that's 15 miles from town. You can drive to wherever the Houston stop will be from most anywhere in BCS in the same time it'll take to load up, rail to Roans Prairie, unload and drive to town. In other words here to Houston is useless.

1) Factually I believe RR do have eminent domain as common carriers, much like pipelines. The crux of the TxSC case was whether or not Tx Central (who currently owns no track and no rolling stock) is or is not a rail road.

2) The proposed location of the Houston stop is the old NW Mall. This is just SW of the 610 -- US 290 interchange. If you know anything about Houston, then you will recognize this as one of the singular most inaccessible areas in the entire city. For all but a very select few parts of town, the time required to get to the grain station would quickly negate time saved by the high speed train.
curry97
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Roans Prairie is the proposed site for that stop which is 30 minutes from BCS.
rab79
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AggieCo2023 said:

I trust Texans can handle a project better that Californians
Why?
NO AMNESTY!

in order for democrats, liberals, progressives et al to continue their illogical belief systems they have to pretend not to know a lot of things; by pretending "not to know" there is no guilt, no actual connection to conscience. Denial of truth allows easier trespass.
JohnLA762
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AggieCo2023 said:

So eminent domain for more highways isn't stealing land; only when it's for trains? Also what about the millions of Texans who don't own cars are they just not allowed to get around?




You don't even try anymore, do you?
twk
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doubledog said:

AggieCo2023 said:

https://original.newsbreak.com/@jalyn-smoot-1588339/2898655750882-texas-supreme-court-ruling-paves-way-for-30-billion-dollar-dallas-to-houston-bullet-train

Apologies if there already was a thread, but exciting news from the Texas Supreme Court who gave life to this project connecting Dallas and Houston. It also will include a stop in Brazos County which will be helpful for students from each of those cities which is probably 40% of the student body. Hopefully this is completed soon and gives Texans other (quicker) alternatives between the two cities. Should help further our economy as more and more companies are moving their HQ's and production here.
I thought it stopped in Carlos... Grimes county... Am I wrong?
You're not wrong. As usual, the OP is.

First, it's interesting that OP posts this article as if it is recent news. The opinion was issued on June 24, and was discussed here: https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3298553/replies/62380228 Of course, that was before this bot was registered to troll Texags, so I guess this poster was doing something else at the time.

The Grimes County stop was added, later in the planning, after it became apparent that Texas Central was going to be in for a fight on the eminent domain issue. Common carrier railroads have eminent domain authority, but just because you lay rails doesn't make you a common carrier, and with no stops between Dallas and Houston, Texas Central didn't look like a common carrier. In the end, they relied upon the old interurban electric railway statute -- a real stretch, but the court bought it.

The funny thing is that, despite winning at the Supreme Court, the project was already dead by the time the ruling came down. Texas Central claimed that the line would be built with private money, but they were lying -- their original plan included lots of federally subsidized loans and any other public money they could graft. The plan was to get as much public money as possible to build the line, then profit off the real estate. However, they would have needed SOME private money, and it just never materialized, nor did any money from the state.

The stupidity of liberals on this issue is just astounding. They always want to talk about how other countries have better rail than the US. The fact is, that's not true. What they have is extensive, government subsidized, passenger rail. What they don't have is very good freight rail. Europe was in dire straits this summer when water levels on their big rivers (principally the Rhine) got low because they move so much freight by by barge. In contrast, the US has the top freight rail system in the world, and it's all privately owned. In a country with our topography, where we have less population density (and, as a result, our cities have less effective public transport) and great distances to cover, moving heavy freight by rail makes much more sense than trying to move people by rail.

If we ever get self-driving cars (a long ways away in my opinion, but that's another topic), this idea will look really stupid. Hopefully, it will just be a matter of a proposed project that never got off the ground looking stupid in hindsight.

I've ridden high speed rail in Europe and know how convenient it can be, if you are traveling from city center to city center, in cities served by good public transport. That doesn't describe the US, and it's silly that liberal keep trying to pound this square peg into a round hole.
Jbob04
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This will never be built. HTH
JJxvi
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TXAG 05 said:

AggieCo2023 said:

There's literally perfect functioning trains in several other states lol. Why can't Texas do something Japan and Europe can?


Sure they function, but they don't make money. Even in Japan they only make money from the property around the stations, the trains themselves lose money, even with subsidies.

If you want to ride a train so bad, take Amtrak.
I'm not on either side here, but this is the way this threads beloved airplanes work too. There are billions spent on infrastructure, and airplanes, and a lot of taxpayer cost. Two airports, a fleet of airplanes, terminals, etc would not be any cheaper to start with if it had to be done from scratch. In addition, air travel doesn't make money from flying airplanes either. Airlines all make money from having their rewards programs. They all take losses from flying passengers around and make money from their credit card programs. Trains making money off of the real estate development as they expand is also always how those companies worked as well for hundreds of years.
Sq 17
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rab79
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AggieCo2023 said:

https://original.newsbreak.com/@jalyn-smoot-1588339/2898655750882-texas-supreme-court-ruling-paves-way-for-30-billion-dollar-dallas-to-houston-bullet-train

Apologies if there already was a thread, but exciting news from the Texas Supreme Court who gave life to this project connecting Dallas and Houston. It also will include a stop in Brazos County which will be helpful for students from each of those cities which is probably 40% of the student body. Hopefully this is completed soon and gives Texans other (quicker) alternatives between the two cities. Should help further our economy as more and more companies are moving their HQ's and production here.
This will happen before a functional Texas bullet train!
NO AMNESTY!

in order for democrats, liberals, progressives et al to continue their illogical belief systems they have to pretend not to know a lot of things; by pretending "not to know" there is no guilt, no actual connection to conscience. Denial of truth allows easier trespass.
Tom Doniphon
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Our entire interstate highway system is in dire need of repair and they're debating paying 5 times market value for land and pissing off money on a train. SMDH

This is a prime example of what "Effective" government looks like.
Kenneth_2003
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They started off with a $300,000,000 grant from the Japanese govt. They blew through that in the first couple years but it didn't go nearly as far as anyone hoped/thought that it would. It was during this time period that private investment just simply and completely failed to materialize. The Japanese did follow up with an additional $300,000,000 but it was a loan this time around. That too is gone.

Houston to Dallas was selected because it's reasonably flat and they thought they could get the land on the cheap. The Japanese wanted to get a HSR line in that utilize their HSR infrastructure and methods. (I'm not sure what system is being used for the California mess). There are only a few global suppliers of HSR infrastructure and they are not cross-compatible. Therefore if you see a future for HSR in a region, in this case the US, getting the rules, regulations, and specifications written for your system gives you the market for years/decades to come. The Japanese thought this Texas route was the most cost effective path to that end.

The train they were proposing for this route is a 50+ year old system.
Mas89
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_mpaul
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Charles Hickson Knows said:

What is the max amount of land we should cover in concrete and asphault? Max number of trees we should remove? At what point does the economy take a back-seat to more important things? Perhaps it never will?

Disclosure needs to happen soon.
Here's the problem with liberals: They think they are the sole arbiters of what are "more important things."
Paper. An insane deer. Taco meat.
_mpaul
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twk said:

doubledog said:

AggieCo2023 said:

https://original.newsbreak.com/@jalyn-smoot-1588339/2898655750882-texas-supreme-court-ruling-paves-way-for-30-billion-dollar-dallas-to-houston-bullet-train

Apologies if there already was a thread, but exciting news from the Texas Supreme Court who gave life to this project connecting Dallas and Houston. It also will include a stop in Brazos County which will be helpful for students from each of those cities which is probably 40% of the student body. Hopefully this is completed soon and gives Texans other (quicker) alternatives between the two cities. Should help further our economy as more and more companies are moving their HQ's and production here.
I thought it stopped in Carlos... Grimes county... Am I wrong?
You're not wrong. As usual, the OP is.

First, it's interesting that OP posts this article as if it is recent news. The opinion was issued on June 24, and was discussed here: https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3298553/replies/62380228 Of course, that was before this bot was registered to troll Texags, so I guess this poster was doing something else at the time.

The Grimes County stop was added, later in the planning, after it became apparent that Texas Central was going to be in for a fight on the eminent domain issue. Common carrier railroads have eminent domain authority, but just because you lay rails doesn't make you a common carrier, and with no stops between Dallas and Houston, Texas Central didn't look like a common carrier. In the end, they relied upon the old interurban electric railway statute -- a real stretch, but the court bought it.

The funny thing is that, despite winning at the Supreme Court, the project was already dead by the time the ruling came down. Texas Central claimed that the line would be built with private money, but they were lying -- their original plan included lots of federally subsidized loans and any other public money they could graft. The plan was to get as much public money as possible to build the line, then profit off the real estate. However, they would have needed SOME private money, and it just never materialized, nor did any money from the state.

The stupidity of liberals on this issue is just astounding. They always want to talk about how other countries have better rail than the US. The fact is, that's not true. What they have is extensive, government subsidized, passenger rail. What they don't have is very good freight rail. Europe was in dire straits this summer when water levels on their big rivers (principally the Rhine) got low because they move so much freight by by barge. In contrast, the US has the top freight rail system in the world, and it's all privately owned. In a country with our topography, where we have less population density (and, as a result, our cities have less effective public transport) and great distances to cover, moving heavy freight by rail makes much more sense than trying to move people by rail.

If we ever get self-driving cars (a long ways away in my opinion, but that's another topic), this idea will look really stupid. Hopefully, it will just be a matter of a proposed project that never got off the ground looking stupid in hindsight.

I've ridden high speed rail in Europe and know how convenient it can be, if you are traveling from city center to city center, in cities served by good public transport. That doesn't describe the US, and it's silly that liberal keep trying to pound this square peg into a round hole.
Damn! That was the intellectual equivalent of a pile driver.

Paper. An insane deer. Taco meat.
ThunderCougarFalconBird
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All of the rail fanbois on this thread have perhaps ridden city to city rail in super high density areas. But they've probably never traveled by rail at the holidays. Traveling on a train where literally every seat is booked and every person has luggage is a much different experience than wistful travel over the summer where maybe 1 out of 3 seats is occupied. It is cramped and not enjoyable in the least. And they don't realize that a privately held passenger railway will seek to maximize profits by maximizing seat occupancy. That is, if they can ever actually get this silly boondoggle off of the ground.
aggiedata
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Owlagdad said:

Just like young ones who bought concert tickets, $25 t shirts back in the 80s to see and hear rock group that was going to change the world, free the masses, put it to the man, etc, OP will blindly follow the promises of high speed rail and enrich the 3 piece executives, just like all the 80s "change" money went to record executives.


Dad, is that you? My gosh.

My dad is still trying to cancel MTV from the basic cable package.
fka ftc
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I'm taking the Acela for the first time in a couple of weeks from Stamford, CT to Philly. Will report back on how great HSR is in the US (or maybe how not so great it is).

Took Amtrak about 15 years ago from Oakland to Fresno. Not high speed but it was comfortable and fine. Being able to eat some snacks, walking around, and playing some cards was just fine.

And the location of the terminuses for the Texas Central absolutely kill any adoption here combined with the network of homeless shelters on wheels called DART and MetroRail.

Seems like a big waste of money.
"The absence of the word accountability is not the same as wanting no accountability" -unknown

"You can never go wrong by staying silent if there is nothing apt to say" -Walter Isaacson
ThunderCougarFalconBird
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Kenneth_2003 said:

They started off with a $300,000,000 grant from the Japanese govt. They blew through that in the first couple years but it didn't go nearly as far as anyone hoped/thought that it would. It was during this time period that private investment just simply and completely failed to materialize. The Japanese did follow up with an additional $300,000,000 but it was a loan this time around. That too is gone.

Houston to Dallas was selected because it's reasonably flat and they thought they could get the land on the cheap. The Japanese wanted to get a HSR line in that utilize their HSR infrastructure and methods. (I'm not sure what system is being used for the California mess). There are only a few global suppliers of HSR infrastructure and they are not cross-compatible. Therefore if you see a future for HSR in a region, in this case the US, getting the rules, regulations, and specifications written for your system gives you the market for years/decades to come. The Japanese thought this Texas route was the most cost effective path to that end.

The train they were proposing for this route is a 50+ year old system.
California was trying to use the French SNCF system. SNCF abandoned the project and built Moroccan rail because the political climate in California was impossible to navigate.
Kenneth_2003
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My understanding is that because Amtrack shares track with freight even though the Acela is capable of higher speeds it never runs that fast.

Leave it go govt to build and maintain rolling stock for a 100mph capability train that never goes over 70.
F2Aggie
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fredfredunderscorefred said:

F2Aggie said:

AggieCo2023 said:

There's literally perfect functioning trains in several other states lol. Why can't Texas do something Japan and Europe can?


Yes. The Houston Metro is a profitable, rider heavy train functioning close to where the bullet train will start/end.



What numbers do you use/see to make Houston metro rail profitable?
Unless sarcasm..? (I hope)

Yes sarcasm. Thought it would be obvious with the rider heavy comment.
Aglaw97
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This is an interesting debate in why it should or shouldn't make sense. But as one poster said, none of that matters unless culturally it's a fit. My generation, Gen X, will never use this past one or two trips when it opens for the novelty and then if they decide to take their kids to a sporting event with a cross state rival to make a day event of it. Houston has experimented with light rail, mass transit, etc over the years, and it's a money loser. You simply won't get some people to give up their cars.
Manhattan
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Amtrak owns most of their rail on the NEC, it isn't true high spelled rail because nimbys like in this thread won't allow the changes like make turns wider to speed up the trains.
F2Aggie
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Will this get appealed to a higher court?
rynning
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The market for this $50B (adjusted for corruption and mismanagement) train consists of people who want to travel back and forth between Houston and Dallas and are willing to rent a car, Uber, or have a friend pick them up when they get there. Where is this demand that Southwest can't meet?
geoag58
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AggieCo2023 said:

I trust Texans can handle a project better that Californians


This crap will help turn Texas into Kommiefornia. See who is getting paid and you will know where support is coming from. Who's paying you to say these things?
Fight against the dictatorship of the federal bureaucracy!
YokelRidesAgain
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F2Aggie said:

Will this get appealed to a higher court?
The only higher court is SCOTUS, and the use of eminent domain by a private entity is well established precedent. So no.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
YokelRidesAgain
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curry97 said:

Roans Prairie is the proposed site for that stop which is 30 minutes from BCS.
So this train is going to drop me off in the butt crack middle of nowhere in Grimes County, with no car? Awesome.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
LOYAL AG
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1. Assuming you're right thank for the correction.
2. Know that area reasonably well and I can drive there in a bit over an hour. This is 290 after all with no speed limits. Lol

Nobody will take this train from here to Houston and certainly not regularly enough to justify the stop. I can see us taking it to Dallas for a date night but that's not going to pay the bills.
A fearful society is a compliant society. That's why Democrats and criminals prefer their victims to be unarmed. Gun Control is not about guns, it's about control.
GE
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Definitely in the minority here but I'm looking forward to seeing how this goes. Probably not going to ride the thing but if it reduces some congestion on '45 between the cities I'll be happy about that.
fka ftc
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YokelRidesAgain said:

curry97 said:

Roans Prairie is the proposed site for that stop which is 30 minutes from BCS.
So this train is going to drop me off in the butt crack middle of nowhere in Grimes County, with no car? Awesome.


Dems call this "progress".

Having a train dropping folks off in the middle of nowhere is how College Station got started. What's old is new again.

For the record, the stops on this train maybe zero ****ing sense.
"The absence of the word accountability is not the same as wanting no accountability" -unknown

"You can never go wrong by staying silent if there is nothing apt to say" -Walter Isaacson
Hoyt Ag
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This thread reminds me of TeslaAg and his infatuation with getting rid of gas stoves. What a stupid hill to die on. Would t be surprised if OP is another paid troll to get clicks
Kenneth_2003
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Manhattan said:

Amtrak owns most of their rail on the NEC, it isn't true high spelled rail because nimbys like in this thread won't allow the changes like make turns wider to speed up the trains.
They own ~75% of the NEC route. That's it
Network wide they own 28% of their track.
https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/corporate/nationalfactsheets/Amtrak-Company-Profile-FY2021-030922.pdf

The Acela's speed is limited by traffic and infrastructure on the route's northern half. On the 231-mile (372 km) section from Boston's South Station to New York's Penn Station, the fastest scheduled time is 3 hours and 30 minutes, or an average speed of 66 miles per hour (106 km/h). Along this section, Acela has captured a 54% share of the combined train and air market. The entire 457-mile (735 km) route from Boston to Washington takes between 6 hours, 38 minutes and 6 hours, 50 minutes, at an average speed of around 70 miles per hour (110 km/h).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acela
doubledog
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curry97 said:

Roans Prairie is the proposed site for that stop which is 30 minutes from BCS.
Ok 8 miles from Carlos, but still in Grimes county.
Street Fighter
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swampdog01 said:

Don't have a vehicle and can't afford to travel by existing options


Then HTF are they getting to tbe train station out on the boonies?
 
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