Bullet Train is Back!

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InfantryAg
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In reply to AggieCo2023 • 12:52a, 1/29/23
AG
AggieCo2023 said:
There's literally perfect functioning trains in several other states lol. Why can't Texas do something Japan and Europe can?
Where?

Right now I don't think there's a city one that is profitable without being heavily subsidized. Definitely no regional ones.

Comparing Japan and Europe is apples to oranges.

You should actually do some research into californias billions of dollars boondoggle, with no track built yet. Texas want fail that big, but the train will fail. If it was feasible, a private company would have built it with no govt money involved.

Bookmark this, this train will never be profitable, if it even gets built.
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Urban Ag
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In reply to AggieCo2023 • 1:56a, 1/29/23
AG
AggieCo2023 said:
There's literally perfect functioning trains in several other states lol. Why can't Texas do something Japan and Europe can?
I know you are young but the answer is different cultures. This is the problem with libs. Chicken and the egg. Euros and Japanese don't have the car culture that exists in this country.

I spent nearly 10 years regularly commuting from Georgetown to Plano. There was not a flight (or a train if it existed) that would make that commute more palatable to me than my own ride. Not even close.

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Science Denier
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In reply to Malibu • 2:19a, 1/29/23
AG
Admiral Adama said:
Southwest round-trip Lovefield to Hobby $240.
Bullet train $30B / $240 = 125,000,000 round trips.
DFW and Houston metro combined populations: 15 million
Round trips per person: 8.3

For the same cost as building the bullet train we could give every single person living in the Houston and Dallas metros eight round trip flights on Southwest. What a bargain for the Texas tax payer.


The cheapest I see is $300/ticket.
LOL OLD
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5C
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In reply to AggieCo2023 • 2:49a, 1/29/23
AG
AggieCo2023 said:
So eminent domain for more highways isn't stealing land; only when it's for trains? Also what about the millions of Texans who don't own cars are they just not allowed to get around?


Buy a car
Rent a car
Take a flight
Uber

Lol "not allowed…".
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fredfredunderscorefred
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In reply to F2Aggie • 3:34a, 1/29/23
F2Aggie said:
AggieCo2023 said:
There's literally perfect functioning trains in several other states lol. Why can't Texas do something Japan and Europe can?


Yes. The Houston Metro is a profitable, rider heavy train functioning close to where the bullet train will start/end.


What numbers do you use/see to make Houston metro rail profitable?
Unless sarcasm..? (I hope)
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nortex97
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3:51a, 1/29/23
AG
I just want to ride an effing monorail from my parking to Kyle field some day. It's not too much to ask, given what we've thrown at the football program over the years. Traffic ain't getting easier in B/CS either. LFG. Yes, I'd accept an Elon hyperloop as well.
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AggieVictor10
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In reply to nortex97 • 4:49a, 1/29/23
AG
nortex97 said:
I just want to ride an effing monorail from my parking to Kyle field some day. It's not too much to ask, given what we've thrown at the football program over the years. Traffic ain't getting easier in B/CS either. LFG. Yes, I'd accept an Elon hyperloop as well.


Accept?
as if the hyperloop isnt a vastly superior option


Less virtue signaling, more vice signaling.

Birds aren’t real.
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Hey...so.. um
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5:30a, 1/29/23
My problem with this is you still need to get where you are going at the end of the train. It's not likely the hub would be where everyone wants to go.

We have family in Forney and live in Montgomery County. I would love to jump on a train and not have to drive but I'm not driving to Houston, getting on a train to dalls then renting a car to drive to Forney. I'd rather just drive to Forney. Same for friends we have in Fort Worth.

Unless you are literally going to exactly where the train stops, it makes no sense.
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Aggie Infantry
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5:33a, 1/29/23
AG
Socialist love trains and busses. That way, they control where you go, when you go, and if you go.
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Aggie Infantry
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5:34a, 1/29/23
AG
Socialism like electric cars and stoves. They can control if you go anywhere and if you eat.
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oklaunion
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5:56a, 1/29/23
Op, there is no stop in Brazos County. Don't make stuff up.
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Wearer of the Ring
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5:57a, 1/29/23
AG
The idea of "houston to dallas" makes it sound like those are points. DFW and houston each cover 100s of square miles. riders on this train will wake up in Forney, have to drive 20 or 30 miles to the station, park, wait for the train, ride to downtown houston and then Uber 30 miles to Katy. All that wasted time. And the extra bits of travel won't be cheap. Please don't pretend the train will run at 200 mph. It will not be feasible except for the gen z incels who live within a mile or two of each downtown station.

But the biggest flaw in this scam is that the train won't stop at Buc ee's.
FJB
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nortex97
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In reply to Wearer of the Ring • 6:04a, 1/29/23
AG
The train might be handy, fwiw, if flying is outlawed/banned. Our commie wanna-be overlords do want to make flying much more expensive with hydrogen powered planes, or "SAF" (sustainable aviation fuel). It all dovetails together with EV's etc. trying to make transportation very difficult/expensive for the unwashed masses.
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Owlagdad
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6:15a, 1/29/23
OP's family has some crappy swamp land they can't sell and want the government to give them top dollar. Always follow the $$.
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WBBQ74
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6:21a, 1/29/23
AG
Sat thru a presentation on this about 10 years ago when the folks pushing this were actively 'working' on it, i.e., trying to get the land footprint. Seems like the run to B/CS was a spur ~30 miles from the main route running between Houston and Dallas.

Unless you have a dedicated (No other freight trains sharing it) track bed elevated over ALMOST EVERY existing road/rr it crosses OR TxDOT/Cities/Counties construct overpasses for existing roads/streets you have no high speed 'bullet' train. You just have another slow train. There are a gillion crossings in that ~250 mile route. This is an endless taxpayer money pit deal. Unless you have a way to load your personal vehicle on the train - use to get to the station and to go where you want to go when you get there - you are stuck as previous posters have stated.

Texas is a no sh_t big spread out place. Miles and miles of Texas. Every 5 years or so the grifters bring back the high speed rail fairy tale but the distances and constraints don't change. As in other dreams, the laws of physics are undefeated.
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Franklin Comes Alive!
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6:38a, 1/29/23
Didn't this fail epically last time with a bunch of money wasted and unaccounted for?

I guess op likes when the govt steals the middle class' money
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Get Off My Lawn
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6:53a, 1/29/23
I think the main points have been hit already, but here it goes:

A. Self driving cars will make POVs even more convenient / competitive. You'll be able to work, sleep, or relax while your car drives you.
B. Southern cities didn't take off until after air conditioning was developed which was also after the POV became accessible. Thus these cities were built by and for commuters meaning there is no central city hub to connect to.
C. What does exist as attractions in those cities is already locked in by development and the train would stop well short.
D. There is no good public transit at the city level for which to tie into (again - see commuters and their individual rather than shared transportation needs).
E. Southwest already does service this route with far less infrastructure and greater flexibility. They already adjust to actual consumer demand.
F. If it's such a good idea - wouldn't Mega Bus type services be flooding I-45 (with greater flexibility in pickup / drop off convenience)?
G. If Southwest is already leaving excess demand on the table, why isn't AMTRAK already running tons of normal speed trips?
H. "High-Speed" isn't.
I. Look to all other projects and find ANY that come in on time and at budget. They all run in sunk-cost concepts to bleed additional money from tax payers when the project inevitably goes less than perfectly.
J. Realistic ticket prices are either heavily tax-payer subsidized or non-competitive. As mentioned earlier - you'll never recover the infrastructure cost by offering $30 trips.

It all boils down to an expensive train that's inconvenient to get to and offloads where you don't care to be and will leave you car-less (stranded) at a time when equivalent options already exist and superior options are promisingly close.

For less money, actual project completion, and greater effect, we could add express lanes to I45 which can be converted to self driving lanes once that technology reaches critical mass. The future is your car using existing roads to get to exclusive infrastructure, then running at 100mph at extreme proximity in a drafting pack of self driving vehicles, then exiting into existing infrastructure to get you to your destination - all while you enjoy free time in your own private cabin. "High-Speed Rail" is a dinosaur.
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nortex97
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In reply to Franklin Comes Alive! • 6:54a, 1/29/23
AG
Yes, this is just a court ruling that took a while. They recently lost most of their executives/leadership and funding prospects I believe. Their last media/press release is from July. I think this is a dead project in reality. Maybe some others have more insight.

Bidenflation probably doesn't make their ability to borrow money any easier.
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TXAG 05
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In reply to AggieCo2023 • 6:59a, 1/29/23
AG
AggieCo2023 said:
There's literally perfect functioning trains in several other states lol. Why can't Texas do something Japan and Europe can?


Sure they function, but they don't make money. Even in Japan they only make money from the property around the stations, the trains themselves lose money, even with subsidies.

If you want to ride a train so bad, take Amtrak.
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Get Off My Lawn
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In reply to TXAG 05 • 7:07a, 1/29/23
TXAG 05 said:
AggieCo2023 said:
There's literally perfect functioning trains in several other states lol. Why can't Texas do something Japan and Europe can?


Sure they function, but they don't make money. Even in Japan they only make money from the property around the stations, the trains themselves lose money, even with subsidies.

If you want to ride a train so bad, take Amtrak.
And Japan is as PERFECT of geography for trains, as you could get. Nearly all of their cities are arranged linearly due to mountains and ocean - many with long established city hubs and dense pedestrian populations that favor public transit.
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Funky Winkerbean
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In reply to Malibu • 7:08a, 1/29/23
AG
Admiral Adama said:
Southwest round-trip Lovefield to Hobby $240.
Bullet train $30B / $240 = 125,000,000 round trips.
DFW and Houston metro combined populations: 15 million
Round trips per person: 8.3

For the same cost as building the bullet train we could give every single person living in the Houston and Dallas metros eight round trip flights on Southwest. What a bargain for the Texas tax payer.
Now do I45 and a Tesla
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Jason C.
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In reply to Get Off My Lawn • 7:17a, 1/29/23
AG
Get Off My Lawn said:
I think the main points have been hit already, but here it goes:

A. Self driving cars will make POVs even more convenient / competitive. You'll be able to work, sleep, or relax while your car drives you.
B. Southern cities didn't take off until after air conditioning was developed which was also after the POV became accessible. Thus these cities were built by and for commuters meaning there is no central city hub to connect to.
C. What does exist as attractions in those cities is already locked in by development and the train would stop well short.
D. There is no good public transit at the city level for which to tie into (again - see commuters and their individual rather than shared transportation needs).
E. Southwest already does service this route with far less infrastructure and greater flexibility. They already adjust to actual consumer demand.
F. If it's such a good idea - wouldn't Mega Bus type services be flooding I-45 (with greater flexibility in pickup / drop off convenience)?
G. If Southwest is already leaving excess demand on the table, why isn't AMTRAK already running tons of normal speed trips?
H. "High-Speed" isn't.
I. Look to all other projects and find ANY that come in on time and at budget. They all run in sunk-cost concepts to bleed additional money from tax payers when the project inevitably goes less than perfectly.
J. Realistic ticket prices are either heavily tax-payer subsidized or non-competitive. As mentioned earlier - you'll never recover the infrastructure cost by offering $30 trips.

It all boils down to an expensive train that's inconvenient to get to and offloads where you don't care to be and will leave you car-less (stranded) at a time when equivalent options already exist and superior options are promisingly close.

For less money, actual project completion, and greater effect, we could add express lanes to I45 which can be converted to self driving lanes once that technology reaches critical mass. The future is your car using existing roads to get to exclusive infrastructure, then running at 100mph at extreme proximity in a drafting pack of self driving vehicles, then exiting into existing infrastructure to get you to your destination - all while you enjoy free time in your own private cabin. "High-Speed Rail" is a dinosaur.


Everyone would do well to memorize these arguments. They're all great and concise and appeal to common sense, and thus they will often shut up a "trains!!1!!" argument pretty quickly.

Arguing transportation issues is kind of like arguing climate change - you can better appeal to these people by assuming at the outset of the argument that there's a problem and just attack the proposed solutions as horribly misguided.
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FarmerJohn
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7:28a, 1/29/23
AG
Trains put the "Station" in College Station. Yet the automobile was so superior, it is no longer in the transportation mix. To put it another way, Amtrak has a station in Bryan. Do you know anyone who has used it? Why is doing the same thing, only a little faster, such a great idea?

The only way this works economically is if we simultaneously stop subsiding highway construction and maintenance. Basically make road travel 3x or 4x more expensive.
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Manhattan
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In reply to swampdog01 • 7:38a, 1/29/23
swampdog01 said:
Eminent domain should not be allowed for a 200 mile choo choo train that will serve less than 1% of the state population.
Take that 30 billion and add 2 lanes to IH45 would be more effective use of capital, and not involve stealing land from rural Texans.


This is exactly what eminent domain should be for… adding lanes to highways never reduces traffic.
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chap
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In reply to nortex97 • 7:38a, 1/29/23
AG
nortex97 said:
Yes, this is just a court ruling that took a while. They recently lost most of their executives/leadership and funding prospects I believe. Their last media/press release is from July. I think this is a dead project in reality. Maybe some others have more insight.

Bidenflation probably doesn't make their ability to borrow money any easier.


The ruling is actually from last June. I'm not sure why the OP says this is "exciting news from the Supreme Court".
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TXAG 05
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In reply to AggieCo2023 • 7:39a, 1/29/23
AG
AggieCo2023 said:
Texas Central is a PRIVATE company… why you hate capitalism?


This isn't capitalism, this is forcing something on the people we don't want. If there was great demand for this train, and a way to make money with it, someone would have built one already.
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7:40a, 1/29/23
AG
I prefer to wait for the fully electric airplanes and quadcopter drones, and nuclear reactors, to make travel nearly free
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Kenneth_2003
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In reply to AggieCo2023 • 7:41a, 1/29/23
AG
AggieCo2023 said:
https://original.newsbreak.com/@jalyn-smoot-1588339/2898655750882-texas-supreme-court-ruling-paves-way-for-30-billion-dollar-dallas-to-houston-bullet-train

Apologies if there already was a thread, but exciting news from the Texas Supreme Court who gave life to this project connecting Dallas and Houston. It also will include a stop in Brazos County which will be helpful for students from each of those cities which is probably 40% of the student body. Hopefully this is completed soon and gives Texans other (quicker) alternatives between the two cities. Should help further our economy as more and more companies are moving their HQ's and production here.
I haven't read the full 2 pages yet...
But tell me you don't know a damn thing about this project without telling me you don't know anything about this project!

1... A stop in GRIMES county 15 miles SE of College Station that would function primarily as a maintenance yard! So yes, oh so very convenient to leave home, drive to the train station, wait for the train, board the train, and speedily end up 30 miles from your destination in the middle of nowhere!
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nortex97
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In reply to chap • 7:49a, 1/29/23
AG
chap said:
nortex97 said:
Yes, this is just a court ruling that took a while. They recently lost most of their executives/leadership and funding prospects I believe. Their last media/press release is from July. I think this is a dead project in reality. Maybe some others have more insight.

Bidenflation probably doesn't make their ability to borrow money any easier.


The ruling is actually from last June. I'm not sure why the OP says this is "exciting news from the Supreme Court".
LOL, thx, I missed that. This thread is way, way off base in the discussion.
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Kenneth_2003
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In reply to AggieCo2023 • 7:50a, 1/29/23
AG
AggieCo2023 said:
So eminent domain for more highways isn't stealing land; only when it's for trains? Also what about the millions of Texans who don't own cars are they just not allowed to get around?
Show me these "millions of Texans without cars." Now, more specifically, show me millions of Texans in Houston and Dallas with a desire to travel to those specific destinations, and those two locations only who do not have cars.

I won't hold my breath because you cannot show me what does not exist.

Additionally, since we DO have means of transportation, the use of eminent domain for highways allows those who lose their property to the highway can access and use the highway. The entire length of I-45 where it is bordered by private land has access roads, regular overpasses, and regular entrance/exit ramps. The same however cannot be said for those whose properties will be cut in half by the train. There will be no access to parcels that become landlocked by this, and those whose properties are bisected will have ZERO access or utility from it.
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Owlagdad
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7:50a, 1/29/23
Just like young ones who bought concert tickets, $25 t shirts back in the 80s to see and hear rock group that was going to change the world, free the masses, put it to the man, etc, OP will blindly follow the promises of high speed rail and enrich the 3 piece executives, just like all the 80s "change" money went to record executives.
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LOYAL AG
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7:54a, 1/29/23
AG
It's clear OP is emotionally attached to this issue which is almost never a good starting point for a debate. Some things he's gotten wrong

- private companies aren't entitled to eminent domain. This isn't capitalism it's corruption. We just haven't figured out who got paid yet.
- there aren't millions of Texans without cars period and certainly not ones that regularly travel from Houston to Dallas or vice versa. This is simply factually incorrect.
- expanding I-45 by one lane each way wouldn't require eminent domain as the land is already part of the I-45 corridor.
- there are no trains in the US that are profitable on fare revenue. All systems are taxpayer subsidized.
- Texas politicians and California politicians aren't different animals. They're both humans so they're both motivated by the same things, money and power.
- the stop servicing BCS is in Roan's Prairie which at a minimum means a whole lot of Uber traffic on Hwy 30 from a stop that's 15 miles from town. You can drive to wherever the Houston stop will be from most anywhere in BCS in the same time it'll take to load up, rail to Roans Prairie, unload and drive to town. In other words here to Houston is useless.

Take a step back from the emotion and do some math. That's where these projects always fail and where this one will fail as well.
A fearful society is a compliant society. That's why Democrats and criminals prefer their victims to be unarmed. Gun Control is not about guns, it's about control.
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Kenneth_2003
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In reply to GAC06 • 7:55a, 1/29/23
AG
GAC06 said:
This boondoggle already disbanded did it not?
Yes. The board of directors disbanded last year and the CEO stepped down. In 2022 they were delinquent on the majority of the property taxes they owed on the properties they had acquired. They have no revenue, so without additional investor money there is no pathway they'd have to pay those taxes this year (due tomorrow) either.

The fear is that this (not recent) TxSC decision doesn't close the door on this non-sense from rearing its ugly head again in the future. It seems that a HSR proposal comes about every 10-15 years or so.

Personally, I'm not opposed to high speed passenger rail or passenger rail in general. I am opposed to ig cutting virgin paths through thousands of families properties. Build it in cooperation with TxDOT utilizing existing ROW and I think it could be successful.
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Get Off My Lawn
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In reply to Manhattan • 7:56a, 1/29/23
Manhattan said:
swampdog01 said:
Eminent domain should not be allowed for a 200 mile choo choo train that will serve less than 1% of the state population.
Take that 30 billion and add 2 lanes to IH45 would be more effective use of capital, and not involve stealing land from rural Texans.


This is exactly what eminent domain should be for… adding lanes to highways never reduces traffic.
A. False. Adding lanes often has diminishing returns, but it's not zero.
B. Note the express lanes being built these days? The concept is that two 2-lane roads are preferable to one 4-lane road.
C. Most congestion is city & ramp based. If an interstate is experiencing frequent turbulence in open country - extra lanes (increased capacity) may well be the answer.
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doubledog
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In reply to AggieCo2023 • 8:02a, 1/29/23
AggieCo2023 said:
https://original.newsbreak.com/@jalyn-smoot-1588339/2898655750882-texas-supreme-court-ruling-paves-way-for-30-billion-dollar-dallas-to-houston-bullet-train

Apologies if there already was a thread, but exciting news from the Texas Supreme Court who gave life to this project connecting Dallas and Houston. It also will include a stop in Brazos County which will be helpful for students from each of those cities which is probably 40% of the student body. Hopefully this is completed soon and gives Texans other (quicker) alternatives between the two cities. Should help further our economy as more and more companies are moving their HQ's and production here.
I thought it stopped in Carlos... Grimes county... Am I wrong?
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