Let's just gin ahead and let Biden give it to the Chinese. They have all the experience mining Lithium.

Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

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It's like saying transport via tanker is bad because of the Exxon Valdez.

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Nobody here is saying that.

Bird Poo said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Manhattan said:

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If they can mine it without polluting ground water or downstream water supplies, go for it.

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The same standards should apply for any lithium mine, don't you agree?

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Still waiting on an answer here.

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Scroll up.

Manhattan said:

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I know, I have a pump jack on a wheat farm taking up almost no space… but that isn't what is in the picture now is it?

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Here is one (we call them grasshoppers) at a famous Texas University. Still works, used to teach engineers.
The point is that this space is not an environmental disaster, I dare say that a Li strip mine will not be as easy to clean up and make useful again, after its better days.

The real point is that individuals who press EVs as the solution to our "environmental problems" do not see beyond the vehicle itself. The EV may be "carbon neutral" but dig below the surface and you will see that the EV is NOT environmentally friendly as a piston and rod vehicle.

The site contains up to 11 million tons of ore.

The ore is about 2% lithium, so 220,000 tons of lithium.

440 million pounds

17.5 pounds lithium per car battery

25 million cars worth of lithium

10.6 million EVs currently sold per year, so less than 2.5 years of EV car production

Total world car production is 80 million cars.

If all cars were electric, this would be less than 4 months world car production

Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Watermelon Man said:

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doubledog said:

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You realize that this is what a typical Li mine looks like.

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You realize that this is a photo of the Mir Diamond Mine in Siberia, which has been closed for over 15 years, so not at all what a typical Li mine looks like.

But, you know, facts. Who needs them?

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So American REM mines don't look like that?

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Obviously not. Otherwise, people who are just trying to scare you wouldn't have to lie.

But, by all means, do your own research.

If it is not an environmental disaster then why is it costing almost $5beezs to clean up?

By 2035 most of the lithium will be able to be economically recovered from a dead EV battery, if the cells themselves can't be recycled for grid storage etc.

Look at you twisting yourself in knots trying to defend their rights while playing white knight for the environment... how cute.

Lithium is great.... until it's our back yard.

You can have economic development without destroying the environment.

Watermelon Man said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Watermelon Man said:

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doubledog said:

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You realize that this is what a typical Li mine looks like.

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You realize that this is a photo of the Mir Diamond Mine in Siberia, which has been closed for over 15 years, so not at all what a typical Li mine looks like.

But, you know, facts. Who needs them?

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So American REM mines don't look like that?

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Obviously not. Otherwise, people who are just trying to scare you wouldn't have to lie.

But, by all means, do your own research.

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You are right...



This Li mine is much cleaner.

https://blog.iseekplant.com.au/blog/2018/lithium-mining-delivers-big-for-wa-increased-spodumene-production

Manhattan said:

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You can have economic development without destroying the environment.

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Like we allow the Chinese to do in Africa so you can drive a souped up golf cart?

LOL. Manhattan finds the ugliest looking drilling landscape available.

Fact: Every lithium mine looks like an asteroid crater
Fact: very few drilling sites look like the one he showed. For example, nearly every drilling site on 21 headed from Giddings to College Station is surrounded by working farms.

Manhattan said:

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If it is not an environmental disaster then why is it costing almost $5beezs to clean up?

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I have seen the government spend hundreds of thousands of dollars investigating squirrel mating.
Yes clean up is expensive, just yell Asbestos at a demolition site and see the cost sky rocket.

Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Manhattan said:

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If they can mine it without polluting ground water or downstream water supplies, go for it.

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The same standards should apply for any lithium mine, don't you agree?

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Not lithium in China or Mongolia or Afghanistan

Manhattan said:

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By 2035 most of the lithium will be able to be economically recovered from a dead EV battery, if the cells themselves can't be recycled for grid storage etc.

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Do you know how Pb-SO4 car batteries are recycled?
It is a hazardous operation to say the least.
At present we send our Pb-SO4 batteries abroad (mainly China) to extract the Pb. These countries have lax environmental laws (or corrupt governments) that allow them to extract Pb economically (at the cost of their workers health).

Your idea of "dead EV battery" Li recovery is possible, but one will need to break EPA laws, in the US or send the batteries to countries that do not give a damn.

doubledog said:

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Watermelon Man said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Watermelon Man said:

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doubledog said:

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You realize that this is what a typical Li mine looks like.

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You realize that this is a photo of the Mir Diamond Mine in Siberia, which has been closed for over 15 years, so not at all what a typical Li mine looks like.

But, you know, facts. Who needs them?

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So American REM mines don't look like that?

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Obviously not. Otherwise, people who are just trying to scare you wouldn't have to lie.

But, by all means, do your own research.

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You are right...



This Li mine is much cleaner.

https://blog.iseekplant.com.au/blog/2018/lithium-mining-delivers-big-for-wa-increased-spodumene-production

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Not even close, that's a picture of the Marvel Lock Gold mine Western Australia.

Of course, according to you, we must get rid of all the gold, now. Nasty stuff.

because the recovered material in those isn't worth very much...

Manhattan said:

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If it is not an environmental disaster then why is it costing almost $5beezs to clean up?

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C'mon now; you're not that naive, are you? Government contracts, regardless of the political spectrum of an administration that creates them, are ripe with grift, pay-offs, kickbacks, and rampant theft/ fraud. Accordingly, I suspect the price tag is a reflection of the very nature of such a contract, coupled with society's apparent willingness to believe that their government can spend its way out of "climate change"; to put it simply, "climate change" is a cash cow for corrupt people!!

And are you telling me that all the pumpjacks are an environmental disaster NOW, but not all the years that each and every one was subject to laws and regulations specifically mandated by liberal environmentalists like yourself? There were several federal alphabet agencies, along with private (but well funded) watchdog groups, that exercised oversight of these pumpjacks; so how badly did these folks drop the ball, AND, would you trust these same folks to clean up the 'environmental disaster' if they're tasked to do so?

C'mon.

Watermelon Man said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Watermelon Man said:

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doubledog said:

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You realize that this is what a typical Li mine looks like.

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You realize that this is a photo of the Mir Diamond Mine in Siberia, which has been closed for over 15 years, so not at all what a typical Li mine looks like.

But, you know, facts. Who needs them?

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So American REM mines don't look like that?

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Obviously not. Otherwise, people who are just trying to scare you wouldn't have to lie.

But, by all means, do your own research.

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10 second google. Care to admit you are wrong?

So now you are moving the goalpost? Nicely done.

Tom Doniphon said:

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Manhattan said:

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You can have economic development without destroying the environment.

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Like we allow the Chinese to do in Africa so you can drive a souped up golf cart?

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I assume you've tossed your smart phone and cordless tools?

Teslag said:

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Tom Doniphon said:

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Manhattan said:

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You can have economic development without destroying the environment.

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Like we allow the Chinese to do in Africa so you can drive a souped up golf cart?

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I assume you've tossed your smart phone and cordless tools?

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That's not his argument. His argument is that any REM is going to destroy the environment. Mining it in Africa with slave labor is no different than mining it here environmentally. So why are we mandating certain products and claiming they are better for the environment, yet handcuffing people from actually making these products domestically, if this is true?

I wouldn't peg critical thinking as your strong suit.

Tom Doniphon said:

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I wouldn't peg critical thinking as your strong suit.

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Nor yours. Many of these lithium strip mines existed long before mass produced EV's existed. None one gave a **** then as long as their Dewalt was lighter and they could look at Texags in the car on their phone.

But now it's a problem.

Why is it a problem?

Please point to anyplace I've suggested it was a problem... you're just mad I called your little car a golf cart. Nothing more.

My golf cart is faster than your real car.

You should stop before you show your ass more.

Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Manhattan said:

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If they can mine it without polluting ground water or downstream water supplies, go for it.

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The same standards should apply for any lithium mine, don't you agree?

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Depends on local laws and regulations

doubledog said:

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Manhattan said:

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If it is not an environmental disaster then why is it costing almost $5beezs to clean up?

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I have seen the government spend hundreds of thousands of dollars investigating squirrel mating.
Yes clean up is expensive, just yell Asbestos at a demolition site and see the cost sky rocket.

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Or find a bone, piece of pottery, or blind cave creature.

We wouldn't spend gazillions if there were sane risk assessments and the Texas RRC is infinitely easier to deal with than TCEQ, EPA, and god forbid, Californy Environmental whackos.

They need to look into loopholes.

They could possibly try opening a 50 acre surface (non-metallic) diamond mine and sell the spodumene as a waste product to a recycling firm (also owned by them).

Manhattan said:

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Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

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It's like saying transport via tanker is bad because of the Exxon Valdez.

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Nobody here is saying that.

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You posted one photo of an oil field which tries to skew the argument to compare it to a mining operation when very few oil fields are anything like that. Forgive me if I misunderstood your message.

Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Watermelon Man said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Watermelon Man said:

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doubledog said:

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You realize that this is what a typical Li mine looks like.

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You realize that this is a photo of the Mir Diamond Mine in Siberia, which has been closed for over 15 years, so not at all what a typical Li mine looks like.

But, you know, facts. Who needs them?

---

So American REM mines don't look like that?

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Obviously not. Otherwise, people who are just trying to scare you wouldn't have to lie.

But, by all means, do your own research.

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10 second google. Care to admit you are wrong?

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Sure, I'll admit that I'm wrong, when someone can show me where I am wrong. Frankly, I'm wrong rather often. But, in this case, I'm not wrong.

You have a picture of the Molycorp Mountain Pass rare earth facility in California's Mojave Desert. Yes, it is an eyesore, in the middle of the desert. But, it isn't all that different than the surrounding geography. Deserts are like that.

But wait, there's more. This is a Rare Earth Element (REE) facility, specifically, a Heavy Rare Earth Element (HREE) facility. Lithium is not heavy (At. Wt. 3) nor is it particularly rare (25th most abundant element in the Earth's crust). So, I doubt they are mining much lithium from the Molycorp Mountain Pass facility.

You just might want to put in more than 10 seconds of research next time.