Let me help you guys with concepts of classified documents

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titan
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In reply to inconvenient truth • 11:07a, 8/14/22
S
inconvenient truth said:
panhandlefarmer said:
wbt5845 said:
Interesting watching you guys who've never handled a classified document arguing with someone who handles them on a daily basis.

Carry on.


Root of the matter right here. Bureaucrats think they have as much authority as an elected President. This is what is undermining our Republic. It is entrenched people in government that lack proper limits and oversight.

Very astute observation. Blue parachute to you.
THIS.

That is actually the group of people most needing some kind of term limits in their capacity right along with Congress seats.
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Predmid
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11:11a, 8/14/22
AG
Stating "I work with x y and z, I know what I'm talking about" on an internet forum is about as credible as saying "my uncle works at nintendo" in elementary school.
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Betoisafurry
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11:12a, 8/14/22
OP, I don't listen to advise from people who are in marching band competitions as an adult
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unmade bed
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In reply to AggieKatie2 • 11:13a, 8/14/22
AggieKatie2 said:
wbt5845 said:
1. There are three levels of classification - Confidential, Secret and Top Secret.

2. Each level has its own handling requirements. Only TS are serialized and tracked, but the others have specific handling and storage requirements.

3. There also are Special Access Required, or SAR, programs that have their own unique handling requirements as defined by that program.

4. Classification of a document is governed by its marking. Even if the document is a cookie recipe, if it's marked Top secret, it is a Top Secret document.

5. When a document is properly declassified, it is remarked. If it has not been remarked, it is not declassified.

6. If a document is misclassified, there is a process for rectifying that. But it must be handled at the higher classification level until rectified.


As someone who had a clearance, my singular question is did you expend this much energy about Hilary and her bathroom server violation.


Apparently that was all much ado about nothing. Obama could have at any time decided any emails sent to or by his Sec of State were declassified. Issue resolved. No need to follow any silly rules and regulations.
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Get Off My Lawn
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11:13a, 8/14/22
Fun insight: there's porn on classified systems. And because deleting classified information required bureaucratic processes and thus effort... it stays there. And gets added to.

And the left wonders why their "Oh no! It's a classified file!" schtick is getting met with resistance and requests to know what the alleged infractions actually were.
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B-1 83
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In reply to Funky Winkerbean • 11:14a, 8/14/22
AG
Funky Winkerbean said:
Quote:
Those official stamps take time
Which is exactly why the president has these privileges.

Think about how long it would take to get you clearance if the President wanted to discuss a classified document with you.
Indeed. The OP never debated that. He never even discussed Trump's guilt or innocence in what the FBI and MSM is discussing. If anything, it lays groundwork to understand why the documents were treated this way - time.
Being in TexAgs jail changes a man……..no, not really
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zoneag
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In reply to B-1 83 • 11:14a, 8/14/22
B-1 83 said:
So much "Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!" in one thread. If the OP's detractors would just think for a minute outside of their Trump fog, it could easily be surmised that what the OP said can well fit into the present situation. The DoD has their procedure - it's evident the OP should and does know it. For bureaucratic purposes, he most certainly is correct. That doesn't eliminate the concept that Trump declaring something "declassified" from a legal sense can't work in with the bureaucratic sense. Those official stamps take time, but don't change the legal sense (as agreed with by the SCOTUS) of those now Trump declassified documents.
That's not the issue with these threads, and you know it. Multiple times you have self important posters starting threads posting about the bureaucratic requirements for handling classified material as they were required to do in their jobs as an E-5, or GS-12, or DoD contractor and then implying that the freaking President of the United States is required to follow all those procedures or else he should have his residence raided. To top it all off, the same posters come across as insufferable arrogant d-bags about their job title / salary / rank. It's not informative, it's done out of look-at-me arrogance as if they somehow have a special insight into this stuff when in reality many of us have done the same in our professional careers. I do think the "lib/leftist/CM" label is thrown around too casually, but that stems from the smugness of the OP's. If anyone is here reeeeeeing, it's these posters being upset that those they deem to be misinformed or unqualified are discussing this issue.
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B-1 83
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In reply to zoneag • 11:16a, 8/14/22
AG
Attacking the OP and debating whether or not he really does the things he says is not "discussing".
Being in TexAgs jail changes a man……..no, not really
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Hungry Ojos
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In reply to B-1 83 • 11:18a, 8/14/22
[We are not going to tolerate vulgar, obscene, or profane posting on this forum and we will auto remove quotes or replies to the posts that are deleted. Thank you to the posters that used the flag option. -Staff]
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Get Off My Lawn
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In reply to B-1 83 • 11:18a, 8/14/22
B-1 83 said:
Attacking the OP and debating whether or not he really does the things says is not "discussing".
And a faulty argument from "authoritie!" is still a faulty argument.
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inconvenient truth
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In reply to B-1 83 • 11:19a, 8/14/22
B-1 83 said:
Funky Winkerbean said:
Quote:
Those official stamps take time
Which is exactly why the president has these privileges.

Think about how long it would take to get you clearance if the President wanted to discuss a classified document with you.
Indeed. The OP never debated that. He never even discussed Trump's guilt or innocence in what the FBI and MSM is discussing. If anything, it lays groundwork to understand why the documents were treated this way - time.

Are you really sitting there saying this when anyone can go back and see for themselves:
wbt5845 said:
That is not true. If he declassified something, there is a process that declassifies the document. It is not declassified until it is remarked.


That that is exactly what he did?
Torbush
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Funky Winkerbean
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In reply to B-1 83 • 11:19a, 8/14/22
AG
The OP is not a victim.
It is so easy to be wrong—and to persist in being wrong—when the costs of being wrong are paid by others.
Thomas Sowell
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somalia
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11:23a, 8/14/22
OP works at DPS issuing DL not the same thing dude
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TomFoolery
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11:23a, 8/14/22
AG
So what we're saying is top secret documents are serialized and tracked regularly, but when the White House changed hands (the most likely time for documents to go missing I would imagine w/ the number of people on staffing changing).... no one figured out they were missing..... for 18 months? Sounds like we need to revamp our tracking system
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Funky Winkerbean
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In reply to B-1 83 • 11:24a, 8/14/22
AG
B-1 83 said:
Funky Winkerbean said:
Quote:
Those official stamps take time
Which is exactly why the president has these privileges.

Think about how long it would take to get you clearance if the President wanted to discuss a classified document with you.
Indeed. The OP never debated that. He never even discussed Trump's guilt or innocence in what the FBI and MSM is discussing. If anything, it lays groundwork to understand why the documents were treated this way - time.
Why didn't he mention the privilege the president has in circumventing the process?
It is so easy to be wrong—and to persist in being wrong—when the costs of being wrong are paid by others.
Thomas Sowell
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fredfredunderscorefred
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11:25a, 8/14/22
President having a time sensitive discussion and a piece of information in a document is above clearance of one person:

President: for purposes of this discussion, i will declassify this document. (Seems we all agree he can do this…)

Beauronerd: ok sir. Let me go call dwight down the hall to change the stamp. (Returns). Sorry sir, dwight appears to be taking a **** right now. Can this wait?
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Get Off My Lawn
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11:30a, 8/14/22
Another fun insight on classified docs: a couple of publicly available news stories can become classified material through association. I.e. the insight that there's correlation between publicly known events is the secret. "Huh - these stories were saved in the same folder... Interesting..."

And of course, the pages then get marked according to the classification level, even though each word is available to Joe T Public on line.
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agjacent
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In reply to AggieKatie2 • 11:32a, 8/14/22
AggieKatie2 said:
wbt5845 said:
1. There are three levels of classification - Confidential, Secret and Top Secret.

2. Each level has its own handling requirements. Only TS are serialized and tracked, but the others have specific handling and storage requirements.

3. There also are Special Access Required, or SAR, programs that have their own unique handling requirements as defined by that program.

4. Classification of a document is governed by its marking. Even if the document is a cookie recipe, if it's marked Top secret, it is a Top Secret document.

5. When a document is properly declassified, it is remarked. If it has not been remarked, it is not declassified.

6. If a document is misclassified, there is a process for rectifying that. But it must be handled at the higher classification level until rectified.


As someone who had a clearance, my singular question is did you expend this much energy about Hilary and her bathroom server violation.
speaking of bathrooms...



but sure, we're supposed to believe trump and his people acted responsibly with classified documents.
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BusterAg
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In reply to B-1 83 • 11:32a, 8/14/22
AG
Smart guy says something is not declassified until it is restamped, even if the president says its declassified.

SCOTUS has declared POTUS declassification is plenary, and no beaurocratic prossess can frustrate it.
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms … disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes… . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”

--Thomas Jefferson
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Belton Ag
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In reply to TXAggie2011 • 11:33a, 8/14/22
AG
Quote:
As I said on another thread, it is a terrible idea as a matter of running an organized, effective office to have an oral standing order to declassify anything and to not physically mark any documents declassified under that system. Not speaking to criminality, just speaking to how to avoid causing massive headaches and confusion.
This is where I am on this. One of the infuriating aspects of Trump is all the low hanging fruit he offers up to his opponents to glom on to and blow up into some huge national security issue.

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NICU Dad
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In reply to Predmid • 11:34a, 8/14/22
AG
Predmid said:
Stating "I work with x y and z, I know what I'm talking about" on an internet forum is about as credible as saying "my uncle works at nintendo" in elementary school.
Your uncle worked at Nintendo too?
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Psycho Bunny
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11:37a, 8/14/22
I'm beginning to wonder if wbt58459 is B-1 83 alternate ego.
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B-1 83
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In reply to BusterAg • 11:38a, 8/14/22
AG
BusterAg said:
Smart guy says something is not declassified until it is restamped, even if the president says its declassified.

SCOTUS has declared POTUS declassification is plenary, and no beaurocratic prossess can frustrate it.
The point
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|
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Your head. Don't feel bad, it apparently soared quickly over many.

Now tell us all what the official DoD procedure is for declassify a document. It's in the OP's first post. Now tell us how the procedural manual (it's the government, there has to be one) includes "The last step can be skipped if the President says so."

HINT: It is 100% legal as confirmed by the SCOTUS but not a normal part of the procedure.
Being in TexAgs jail changes a man……..no, not really
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Buying_time
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11:39a, 8/14/22
AG
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titan
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11:39a, 8/14/22
S

The real question or observation that needs to be made here is there sounds like there is more than enough ambiguity on legal grounds of what is valid or allowed or not, to evade any imprisonment or something so severe. Even more ambiguity than Clinton's infamous "is" meaning. We are talking in terms of lawfare between enemy parties. There seems more than enough wiggle room here to make the whole thing moot.
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Tom_Fox
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In reply to Psycho Bunny • 11:40a, 8/14/22
Psycho Bunny said:
I'm beginning to wonder if wbt58459 is B-1 83 alternate ego.
If by alter ego you mean they are both overweight, non-gun toting, current or former fed civilian bureaucrats, with an overinflated sense of self importance, and supposed conservatives?

Then, yes.
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B-1 83
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In reply to Psycho Bunny • 11:40a, 8/14/22
AG
Psycho Bunny said:
I'm beginning to wonder if wbt58459 is B-1 83 alternate ego.
No doubt……after all, the collective minds of F16 have now declared us both CMs and liberals at some time or another.
Being in TexAgs jail changes a man……..no, not really
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B-1 83
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In reply to Tom_Fox • 11:42a, 8/14/22
AG
El_Zorro said:
Psycho Bunny said:
I'm beginning to wonder if wbt58459 is B-1 83 alternate ego.
If by alter ego you mean they are both overweight, non-gun toting, current or former fed civilian bureaucrats, with an overinflated sense of self importance, and supposed conservatives?

Then, yes.
You seriously just showed that your opinions should hold zero relevance here ever again.
Being in TexAgs jail changes a man……..no, not really
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Tom_Fox
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In reply to B-1 83 • 11:44a, 8/14/22
B-1 83 said:
El_Zorro said:
Psycho Bunny said:
I'm beginning to wonder if wbt58459 is B-1 83 alternate ego.
If by alter ego you mean they are both overweight, non-gun toting, current or former fed civilian bureaucrats, with an overinflated sense of self importance, and supposed conservatives?

Then, yes.
You seriously just showed that your opinions should hold zero relevance here ever again.
Sorry, I was just guessing about the weight part. So am I not right that you were not a 6(c) fed employee?
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BusterAg
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In reply to B-1 83 • 11:45a, 8/14/22
AG
So. What you are saying is that this thread is 100% unrelated to the Trump raid? That you agree the president has different powers, and can declassify information at will?

Seems like important context for this situation.

At best, op omitted critical information that would make the op intentionally misleading.

My mother taught me a lie of omission is still a lie.
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms … disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes… . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”

--Thomas Jefferson
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aggiehawg
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In reply to titan • 11:46a, 8/14/22
AG
titan said:

The real question or observation that needs to be made here is there sounds like there is more than enough ambiguity on legal grounds of what is valid or allowed or not, to evade any imprisonment or something so severe. Even more ambiguity than Clinton's infamous "is" meaning. We are talking in terms of lawfare between enemy parties. There seems more than enough wiggle room here to make the whole thing moot.
The lead attorney being from nat sec instead of crim is a big tell.
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B-1 83
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In reply to Tom_Fox • 11:46a, 8/14/22
AG
You failed on every point.
Being in TexAgs jail changes a man……..no, not really
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Change Detection
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11:47a, 8/14/22
AG
What I find pretty troubling is that WBT gets on here and says to the flippen world, "Hey, I handle classified docs!". Kind of setting himself up as a target.

Don't you ever listen to your security presentations and ops for handing classified materials. Telling people what you do and what information you have is a pretty big no-no. Either you are a fool and about to not pass your next poly, or you really are making some noise about things that you really have little knowledge.
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wbt5845
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In reply to Tom_Fox • 11:48a, 8/14/22
AG
It means that if you are commenting on my weight, you don't know me very well. I've posted here a lot about my weight - or loss of, to be precise.
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Tom_Fox
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In reply to wbt5845 • 11:49a, 8/14/22
wbt5845 said:
It means that if you are commenting on my weight, you don't know me very well. I've posted here a lot about my weight - or loss of, to be precise.
Sorry, if I confused you with another poster.
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