It's not (D)ifferant.

wbt5845 said:

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That is not true. If he declassified something, there is a process that declassifies the document. It is not declassified until it is remarked.

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From where in the Constitution does this process derive its classification power?

In other words the nicknames heard for them are true.

Another element going to your point was the very day of the raid was the deadline for the FBI to turn over documents about the Bidens. Did that even happen, or did they yet again practice double-standards?

Back in the early 90s, the program I was working on dealt with a lot of data analysis so we always had numerous plots out on our desk. The data was normalized so it was unclassified.

Then some brilliant idiot in Security decided that the variable TIME needed to be classified Secret. Yes. You read that right.

All of a sudden, all of these plots are now classified. We didn't re-mark anything. We just cussed those idiots and stuck them off in our classified cabinets (everyone had their own). And if you had some out, if you had to hit the ****ter you either put them back in the cabinet or took them with you. Big stupid PITA.

Two months later, reason overcame stupidity and they realized classifying TIME was ******ed and unclassified it again so we could take those plots out of the cabinets.

Never changed any markings.

wbt5845 said:

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Interesting watching you guys who've never handled a classified document arguing with someone who handles them on a daily basis.

Carry on.

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I wonder if you'd lose your clearance if the government knew about your affinity for teenage girls.

D-Fens --- do you think it is possible after the birthday on the 4th, the FBI did indeed turn over the documents on the 5th, but pointed out they were so incriminating to the Bidens they needed to launch the raid that afternoon to generate static over the whole matter for the reasons you give?

inconvenient truth said:

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wbt5845 said:

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1. There are three levels of classification - Confidential, Secret and Top Secret.

2. Each level has its own handling requirements. Only TS are serialized and tracked, but the others have specific handling and storage requirements.

3. There also are Special Access Required, or SAR, programs that have their own unique handling requirements as defined by that program.

4. Classification of a document is governed by its marking. Even if the document is a cookie recipe, if it's marked Top secret, it is a Top Secret document.

5. When a document is properly declassified, it is remarked. If it has not been remarked, it is not declassified.

6. If a document is misclassified, there is a process for rectifying that. But it must be handled at the higher classification level until rectified.

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7. None of this applies to the president as he is the ultimate original classification authority and isn't subject to bureaucratic processes.
hth

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I've asked this before but no one answered. Unlike everyone else that posts here I am not an expert on classified documents.

If it is true that as a result of his ultimate power to classify/declassify documents or information, the President can just decide what is and isn't classified with no subsequent follow-up on actually going through the process of removing or changing classification, why would there need to be a "standing order" (cited by Trump) that any documents taken by the president to their residence are "deemed to be declassified."

If the concept that the President is the ultimate authority on whether information is classified or not (which I do agree with) why the need for a separate executive order exempting documents taken to president's residence from declassification requirements?

Ultimately it's all an academic exercise because it's not all that important to the raid on MAL. Classification of documents doesn't really impact ownership of the documents, so just because the documents were declassified, it may have still be improper for them to have been kept at MAL.

As I said on another thread, it is a terrible idea as a matter of running an organized, effective office to have an oral standing order to declassify anything and to not physically mark any documents declassified under that system. Not speaking to criminality, just speaking to how to avoid causing massive headaches and confusion.

Everyone involved and every person who saw this going on and didn't say anything deserves two hard slaps across their face at a minimum

If I posted my actual job, half the guys here would call me a liar and the other half would start calling my employer with all sorts of lies. How would I prove it - post a pay stub? The few I know IRL know what I do.

Once again - I made no claims about anything regarding Trump or the recent raid - I just posted some details about DoD classification procedures. Are there different rules for the president? Who knows? But even if there were, Trump stopped being president 1 1/2 years ago.

redcrayon said:

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wbt5845 said:

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Interesting watching you guys who've never handled a classified document arguing with someone who handles them on a daily basis.

Carry on.

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I wonder if you'd lose your clearance if the government knew about your affinity for teenage girls.

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Ooooooo! Ooooooooo! A little TexAgs sleuth work could call his boss like someone on here did Tanya! Go for it!

Quote:

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As I said on another thread, it is a terrible idea as a matter of running an organized, effective office to have an oral standing order to declassify anything

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A president wouldn't be able to function properly without it.

How long is the process for someone to get clearance?

Its all part of the new faith-based government.

Immaculate Declassification

OP does not possess one of these, apparently.

B-1 83 said:

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redcrayon said:

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wbt5845 said:

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Interesting watching you guys who've never handled a classified document arguing with someone who handles them on a daily basis.

Carry on.

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I wonder if you'd lose your clearance if the government knew about your affinity for teenage girls.

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Ooooooo! Ooooooooo! A little TexAgs sleuth work could call his boss like someone on here did Tanya! Go for it!

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It would take no sleuth work. Genius has posted TONS of identifying info on here. He's not as bright as he claims to be. Keep defending a pervert.

Guys, not really a good idea to disclose your security clearances in an online forum.

blakegrimez said:

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Guys, not really a good idea to disclose your security clearances in an online forum.

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I'm sure these guys have has much clearance as a yeoman.

So much "Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!" in one thread. If the OP's detractors would just think for a minute outside of their Trump fog, it could easily be surmised that what the OP said can well fit into the present situation. The DoD has their procedure - it's evident the OP should and does know it. For bureaucratic purposes, he most certainly is correct. That doesn't eliminate the concept that Trump declaring something "declassified" from a legal sense can't work in with the bureaucratic sense. Those official stamps take time, but don't change the legal sense (as agreed with by the SCOTUS) of those now Trump declassified documents.

Bronco6G said:

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wbt5845 said:

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Interesting watching you guys who've never handled a classified document arguing with someone who handles them on a daily basis.

Carry on.

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Prove it, or you're just a troll

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Watch out, that is exactly what a Chinese Spy would say to compromise you! (Learned that in one of those government mandatory training for Anti Terror or maybe it was "how to spot a white supremacist in the ranks"...can't remember lol)

panhandlefarmer said:

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wbt5845 said:

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Interesting watching you guys who've never handled a classified document arguing with someone who handles them on a daily basis.

Carry on.

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Root of the matter right here. Bureaucrats think they have as much authority as an elected President. This is what is undermining our Republic. It is entrenched people in government that lack proper limits and oversight.

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Very astute observation. Blue parachute to you.

Bronco6G said:

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Watermelon Man said:

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inconvenient truth said:

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wbt5845 said:

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1. There are three levels of classification - Confidential, Secret and Top Secret.

2. Each level has its own handling requirements. Only TS are serialized and tracked, but the others have specific handling and storage requirements.

3. There also are Special Access Required, or SAR, programs that have their own unique handling requirements as defined by that program.

4. Classification of a document is governed by its marking. Even if the document is a cookie recipe, if it's marked Top secret, it is a Top Secret document.

5. When a document is properly declassified, it is remarked. If it has not been remarked, it is not declassified.

6. If a document is misclassified, there is a process for rectifying that. But it must be handled at the higher classification level until rectified.

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7. None of this applies to the president as he is the ultimate original classification authority and isn't subject to bureaucratic processes.
hth

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Wrong, as usual.

It should be

7. None of this applies to the search of MAR because none of the statutes listed on the warrant have anything to do with classified documents.

While discussion of what powers the President has or does not have, and what procedures are required to be followed to declassify a document may be an interesting academic exercise, it is certainly irrelevant to the troubles Mr. Trump finds himself.

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Oh, you've seen the warrant? Then tell us what was the premise of the warrant?

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You haven't? It has been publicized on many, many outlets.
The premise is that a US Magistrate Judge was presented with evidence that established probable cause that crimes had been committed and the property at Mar-A-Lago was to be searched to obtain evidence of those crimes.

In particular, this is Attachment B, in its entirety:

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ATTACHMENT B Property to be seized

All physical documents and records constituting evidence, contraband, fruits of crime, or other items illegally possessed in violation of 18 U.S.C. 793, 2071 , or 1519, including the following:

a. Any physical documents with classification markings, along with any containers/boxes (including any other contents) in which such documents are located, as well as any other containers/boxes that are collectively stored or found together with the aforementioned documents and containers/boxes;

b. Information, including communications in any form, regarding the retrieval, storage, or transmission of national defense information or classified material;

c. Any government and/or Presidential Records created between January 20, 2017, and January 20, 2021; or

d. Any evidence of the knowing alteration, destruction, or concealment of any government and/or Presidential Records, or of any documents with classification markings.

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Of particular note:
1\ The criminal sections, 18 U.S.C. section 793, 18 U.S.C. section 2071, and 18 U.S.C. section 1519 do not require any of the documents to be classified for the violations to apply. They do not have to be classified documents. You can search for these codes on the internet and they are pretty short and easy to read. If you want to discuss anything about the search warrant in an intelligent manner, you probably should be familiar with them.

2\ Item b. of Attachment B allows for the seizure of "Information...regarding retrieval, storage, or transmission of national defense information or classified material;" this means that documents or records of EITHER national defense information OR classified material can be seized. It does not REQUIRE seized material to be classified material.

3\ Item d. of Attachment B does refer to "any documents with classification markings." Note that this specifically says classification markings. If you find and read the warrant, in the Property Receipt section, you will find reference to documents referred to as "classified/TS/SCI" as well as "confidential", "secret", and "top secret" classifications. This can only refer to how these documents are marked, as an inquiry with the NARA would have to made to determine if these documents had been declassified after being issued but prior to being seized.

Note that the technicality of whether or not the documents seized were classified at the time of seizure is irrelevant. What is important is the plain fact that some of these documents were marked as being classified.

It's pretty clear the President can declassify anything they want. Bush directly declassified info about him being informed about the 9/11 attacks a month or so before hand, for example. Seems that this, the President directly declassifing something, is a rarity.

The standard process is, yes, the President directs an underling to go follow the normal process to get something declassified. But that is not required.

And there is no documentation requirement that the President directly declassifing something.

So while he was President, Trump could have done exactly what he said he did and he was within his rights to do so. However, it certainly appears he used that privilege in a way that no other President had before (at least as we know). Abuse of power does not make him a criminal.

wbt5845 said:

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If I posted my actual job, half the guys here would call me a liar and the other half would start calling my employer with all sorts of lies. How would I prove it - post a pay stub? The few I know IRL know what I do.

Once again - I made no claims about anything regarding Trump or the recent raid - I just posted some details about DoD classification procedures. Are there different rules for the president? Who knows? But even if there were, Trump stopped being president 1 1/2 years ago.

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DOD=goalpost moved.

Who knows? The constitution, supreme court and anyone willing to read those decisions without a jaded eye, not you. You're not a liberal, leftist, just a TDS riddled poster, who thought he could come across as authoritative and educate us dummies. And whether he's a sitting president or former president is irrelevant, see W or Barry.

Take the loss and move on.

Quote:

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Those official stamps take time

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Which is exactly why the president has these privileges.

Think about how long it would take to get you clearance if the President wanted to discuss a classified document with you.