Teslag said:

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To a bunch of cartoon message board tough talk? No, I have no response. This is a thread about the most American cars available.

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I don't understand this response, but defer to my most recent comment. Thanks.

petroleo y agua said:

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In any event (and despite online peeing contests), EVs are incredibly detrimental to the surface of the Earth, not economically feasible, and simply not a way forward for the moment.

That could change, but not in the next 200 years.

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Sorry, I'm not a greenpeace weirdo so you can save that environmentalist spiel for someone else. I think I'll trust Elon on this. But good luck with your whole oil empire thing.

It's not an "empire." It's a proven commodity readily produceable and capable of being bargained.

I heart Elon and his monumental paradigm shift, but it's still early (by a few centuries). Elon requires an entire industry to be stifled for no other purpose than to assuage his ego. He's on to something, just as the person that bears the company's namesake.

But, again, centuries too early.

Also, I'm not a "weirdo." I benefit immensely from all sorts of energy production. Just providing a counterpoint to the Tesla is the end all be all argument.

Elon is smart, but he's over his skies. EVs are poor performers (energy wise), even in the consumer market.

Only suckers buy Teslas (or those that like shiny toys).

Teslag said:

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Ed Harley said:

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There was a line of cars 80 deep at Whole Foods the other day trying to charge their teslas. I'd rather just pay for gas than wait for an hour and a half to charge one of those pieces of *****

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Which Whole Foods and where?

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Park Lane in Dallas.

80 deep when there's another supercharger just up the road? Your story totally checks out.

Too expensive for me and one poster on this topic provided useful information depicting all of the rare earth metals required to mine in all of these metals. The mining of the rare earth metals would make us more dependent on China and is worse for the environment. Heck, what do we do to dispose of the massive batteries? Bury them in the desert?

Care to discuss the points I raise: regarding costs of mining and reclamation of same, particularly in third world countries.

petroleo y agua said:

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Care to discuss the points I raise: regarding costs of mining and reclamation of same, particularly in third world countries.

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The free market will establish a solution to this problem. It always has and will in this case.

Don't scream "free market" without details. If you have a solution, then present it.

Otherwise, socialism will not solve the problem because no one benefits from the work performed to solve the problem.

Do the work and present a solution. Don't whine.

If "free markets" are the answer, then why are we subsidizing wind, solar, EVs, etc?

Teslag said:

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Fore Left! said:

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And i did read the thread where you tried to redirect to the "lithium triangle", which is bull****

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Sorry your lame attempt lost.

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So most/all the lithium refining is in china. china is our enemy and wants to take Taiwan. People in our country are extremely short sighted to continue to push EV's under those circumstances as the left pushes to curtail oil exploration here.

EV's time will probably come but it is stupid to do it now with china, our enemy, the key link in battery production.

You know the answer, obviously. But it should be stated vehemently that those markets are dog ***** They are not sustainable. They are Ponzi schemes.

These markets are built and then sold/flipped (think Magnolia, Chip, and JoJo) to idiots that don't know better.

The buck is being passed currently and the useful idiots don't know better because they don't have access to the information.

So, in the interim, "Tesla awesome," "Tesla cool," and "Tesla save me money."

Tesla is quite literally an advanced TV infomercial.

petroleo y agua said:

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Care to discuss the points I raise: regarding costs of mining and reclamation of same, particularly in third world countries.

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No. I don't care about any of that. Teslas are fast as hell, fun to drive, the tech is insane. It's also saving me a fortune in gas compared to my old BMW. So no, I don't give a **** about a mine in a 3rd world ****hole. Go join the sierra club. We will enjoy our cars.

Teslag said:

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petroleo y agua said:

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Care to discuss the points I raise: regarding costs of mining and reclamation of same, particularly in third world countries.

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No. I don't care about any of that. Teslas are fast as hell, fun to drive, the tech is insane. It's also saving me a fortune in gas compared to my old BMW. So no, I don't give a **** about a mine in a 3rd world ****hole. Go join the sierra club. We will enjoy our cars.

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Why does your car require a subsidy if it's so cool?

geoag58 said:

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Teslag said:

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Fore Left! said:

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And i did read the thread where you tried to redirect to the "lithium triangle", which is bull****

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Sorry your lame attempt lost.

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So most/all the lithium refining is in china. china is our enemy and wants to take Taiwan. People in our country are extremely short sighted to continue to push EV's under those circumstances as the left pushes to curtail oil exploration here.

EV's time will probably come but it is stupid to do it now with china, our enemy, the key link in battery production.

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When you dump every single chinese made item you have I might care. Until then you're just a hypocrite. I'll continue to drive the most American car on the road.

petroleo y agua said:

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Teslag said:

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petroleo y agua said:

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Care to discuss the points I raise: regarding costs of mining and reclamation of same, particularly in third world countries.

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No. I don't care about any of that. Teslas are fast as hell, fun to drive, the tech is insane. It's also saving me a fortune in gas compared to my old BMW. So no, I don't give a **** about a mine in a 3rd world ****hole. Go join the sierra club. We will enjoy our cars.

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Why does your car require a subsidy if it's so cool?

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Teslas haven't received federal tax credits for several years. I received none.

petroleo y agua said:

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Don't scream "free market" without details. If you have a solution, then present it.

Otherwise, socialism will not solve the problem because no one benefits from the work performed to solve the problem.

Do the work and present a solution. Don't whine.

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I provided the solutions to you above with link. That's only three of them.

Bolivia, Argentina and Chile are the three countries with the largest lithium reserves at roughly 45 million tons. They are overwhelmingly contained in salars. Brine mining, or salar mining, is a fairly straight forward evaporative process. Scientists are working to develop technologies that can extract lithium and other valuable materials including gold, zinc, copper, and silica from the brine water used by geothermal power plants. Collecting lithium from geothermal brine could make the whole lithium production process far faster and cheaper than the natural evaporation processes that are normally used.

This is the free market in action. Its pure magic. Sit back and relax.

Buying a Chinese made spoon is a world apart from what is being discussed in this thread

You're promoting horrendous destruction of the surface of the Earth to almost the sole benefit of our enemies.

It's breathtaking.

I stopped reading at brine mining. You know nothing about the industry.

I would be interested in your first hand experience to the contrary.

Teslag said:

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geoag58 said:

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Teslag said:

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Fore Left! said:

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And i did read the thread where you tried to redirect to the "lithium triangle", which is bull****

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Sorry your lame attempt lost.

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So most/all the lithium refining is in china. china is our enemy and wants to take Taiwan. People in our country are extremely short sighted to continue to push EV's under those circumstances as the left pushes to curtail oil exploration here.

EV's time will probably come but it is stupid to do it now with china, our enemy, the key link in battery production.

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When you dump every single chinese made item you have I might care. Until then you're just a hypocrite. I'll continue to drive the most American car on the road.

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So your solution is to become more reliant on china, not just for big screen tv's and prescription drugs, but automobles. And while we're at it let the left destroy oil production. Sounds like a winning plan.

You must've missed my question above.... if "free markets," as you say, are the answer - which I agree with.... why are we subsidizing EVs, wind, and solar?

Very interested in what mental gymnastics you can use to justify both....

geoag58 said:

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Teslag said:

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geoag58 said:

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Teslag said:

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Fore Left! said:

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And i did read the thread where you tried to redirect to the "lithium triangle", which is bull****

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Sorry your lame attempt lost.

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So most/all the lithium refining is in china. china is our enemy and wants to take Taiwan. People in our country are extremely short sighted to continue to push EV's under those circumstances as the left pushes to curtail oil exploration here.

EV's time will probably come but it is stupid to do it now with china, our enemy, the key link in battery production.

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When you dump every single chinese made item you have I might care. Until then you're just a hypocrite. I'll continue to drive the most American car on the road.

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So your solution is to become more reliant on china, not just for big screen tv's and prescription drugs, but automobles. And while we're at it let the left destroy oil production. Sounds like a winning plan.

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EV's can't destroy oil production. There's simply too many uses for ICE applications to completely replace them with batteries.

Tom Doniphon said:

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You must've missed my question above.... if "free markets," as you say, are the answer - which I agree with.... why are we subsidizing EVs, wind, and solar?

Very interested in what mental gymnastics you can use to justify both....

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For EV's, I can't and I won't. But that is what is in place.

Solar and wind are different. They are recurring sources of energy. If we can tap their full potential, as long as there is a sun and weather on the planet, we will have free energy. It makes sense to have a subsidized group effort to advance technology in both.

I didn't get any tax credit as a Tesla owner. That ship has sailed.

But it received one, right? Did Ford?

Or did he out compete horses?

Your product doesn't perform and needs help.

geoag58 said:

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Teslag said:

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geoag58 said:

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Teslag said:

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Fore Left! said:

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And i did read the thread where you tried to redirect to the "lithium triangle", which is bull****

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Sorry your lame attempt lost.

---

So most/all the lithium refining is in china. china is our enemy and wants to take Taiwan. People in our country are extremely short sighted to continue to push EV's under those circumstances as the left pushes to curtail oil exploration here.

EV's time will probably come but it is stupid to do it now with china, our enemy, the key link in battery production.

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When you dump every single chinese made item you have I might care. Until then you're just a hypocrite. I'll continue to drive the most American car on the road.

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So your solution is to become more reliant on china, not just for big screen tv's and prescription drugs, but automobles. And while we're at it let the left destroy oil production. Sounds like a winning plan.

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Electric vehicles are going to be made. China is already the largest producer of them. They result in cheaper cost per mile transportation. They are going to exist. The question is whether or not those vehicles are manufactured by an American company, European company or a Chinese company. The only truly competitive company with China right now is Tesla.

You're saying you want to be driving Chinese in 20
years by making this argument. It's going to take 20 years to get there. The vast majority of the profit generation of a vehicle sale is on the sale, not production, of the vehicle. It's crazy to say we're not going to make EVs, because China refines some of the raw materials after acquiring them from other countries.

THAT is short sighted.

This is not a serious post. This poster should be summarily ignored in terms of energy, particularly renewables.

petroleo y agua said:

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But it received one, right? Did Ford?

Or did he out compete horses?

Your product doesn't perform and needs help.

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Not anymore.

petroleo y agua said:

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But it received one, right? Did Ford?

Or did he out compete horses?

Your product doesn't perform and needs help.

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It absolutely performs. It is the best vehicle I have ever owned in every single way.

That's not what you said.... you said the "free market" always gets it right. Called it "magical" too, I believe... you don't believe Tesla ever received government subsidies? That wind and solar didn't / don't?

So which is it... free markets or a subsidies?

Not to mention the US had the 4th largest reserves of lithium in the world. We can lead this charge, or back down. Luckily Elon is on our side and is already gearing up for it.


Dig baby dig.

Teslag said:

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petroleo y agua said:

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But it received one, right? Did Ford?

Or did he out compete horses?

Your product doesn't perform and needs help.

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Not anymore.

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As long as you admit that it required assistance.

No idea why kneehigh is allowed to repeatedly troll.

Teslag said:

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geoag58 said:

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Teslag said:

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geoag58 said:

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Teslag said:

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Fore Left! said:

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And i did read the thread where you tried to redirect to the "lithium triangle", which is bull****

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Sorry your lame attempt lost.

---

So most/all the lithium refining is in china. china is our enemy and wants to take Taiwan. People in our country are extremely short sighted to continue to push EV's under those circumstances as the left pushes to curtail oil exploration here.

EV's time will probably come but it is stupid to do it now with china, our enemy, the key link in battery production.

---

When you dump every single chinese made item you have I might care. Until then you're just a hypocrite. I'll continue to drive the most American car on the road.

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So your solution is to become more reliant on china, not just for big screen tv's and prescription drugs, but automobles. And while we're at it let the left destroy oil production. Sounds like a winning plan.

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EV's can't destroy oil production. There's simply too many uses for ICE applications to completely replace them with batteries.

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Not by themselves they can't. Maybe someday they can. Right now they help give cover to leftists/eco nuts who want to prevent oil exploration, it's in the news almost every day. What is the date in commiefornia for no more ICE's 2035? Is there any reason to think china will no longer be the key link in batteey production over the next ten years? We are handing the keys to our destruction over to china.

Tom Doniphon said:

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That's not what you said.... you said the "free market" always gets it right. Called it "magical" too, I believe... you don't believe Tesla ever received government subsidies? That wind and solar didn't / don't?

So which is it... free markets or a subsidies?

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Didn't GM and Ford get government bailouts? How many billions did we gift GM unions? And their cars aren't even as American as teslas.