Not always. Without hydrocarbon, you couldn't charge your little baby.

No, they will replace the whole pack from my understanding. Luckily it's warrantied for 8 years and is very rare.

Rockdoc said:

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Not always. Without hydrocarbon, you couldn't charge your little baby.

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Or fill our diesel truck. Or my boat. You seem to be under some impression that I'm anti hydrocarbon.

Exactly. And here is twice I have asked you this question....., what is the cost of that pack?

Teslag said:

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False, #1 is the Tesla Model Y

https://www.cars.com/articles/2022-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-451057/

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I counter with this

https://www.motor1.com/news/540662/2021-most-american-made-cars/

Under warranty? Nothing

Out of warranty. 13-15-17k.

Bout the cost of my f250 Diesel engine

Lithium does not come from China. They have lithium, they retain their raw material for themselves. The raw material is generally sourced from what is called the "Lithium Triangle" in South America (Argentina, Bolivia, and Chile), which is mined from brines and evaporation pools, or from Australia from spodumene (also called hard rock lithium mining). After extraction it is sent to China for refinement. Post refinement the lithium sells for around $70,000 per metric tonne. There is around 5kg in the overall mass of a battery pack that weighs 1000kg at a cost of about $350, of which China only receives the portion derived from refinement, not the whole.

The entire battery pack, inclusive of cooling and integration of the pack, is manufactured for about $110/kWh. The battery packs in Tesla's are generally 75-100kWh.

China is not getting rich off refining lithium at a percentage of $350 per vehicle on a vehicle that sells for $50,000 with a gross margin of 32%.

What they will get rich off of is the fact they're the second largest producers of EVs worldwide and they will start shipping them across the globe to combat high gas prices. That's how you lose, by letting them sell finished products, not by being a member of the supply chain. China became "not desperately poor" by manufacturing iPhones. Apple got rich off their labor.

Gunny456 said:

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Exactly. And here is twice I have asked you this question....., what is the cost of that pack?

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Depends. It's free within 8 years. If not then around $12k to $15k.

I have a 2006 diesel truck. Never had to replace the engine. What is your point?

SMM48 said:

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Under warranty? Nothing

Out of warranty. 13-15-17k.

Bout the cost of my f250 Diesel engine

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And like a diesel, it should get 300 to 500 thousand miles rather easily.

SMM48 said:

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But the power plant was gonna produce the electricity anyway….so what does it matter

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And the power plant runs on...

The point is the gotchas are the same old tired repeats.

Key word .... should. No history of such but should. What if not? Tesla going to graciously extend a free extended warranty right?

Gunny456 said:

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Show me that as a part number and actual cost. Tesla dealership nor Ford can do that. It's all speculation and guesses.
You said that there is no comparison to your Tesla battery pack and the marine battery that powers your Minn Kota. Most boats use 4 batteries or more. Average cost is $1000 each or 4 grand for those cheap no comparison to a Tesla battery batteries. But a replacement Tesla pack is speculated to only be 12 to 15K?
Does not add up.

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Talk about apples and oranges. Jesus.

Teslag said:

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petroleo y agua said:

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Please answer my questions.

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What question?

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Questions posed earlier in the thread. Thanks.

And the electric car emits what?

Teslag said:

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Tesla batteries for American deliveries are currently manufactured in Freemont, California. The Texas battery plant will go online later this year.

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Where do the raw materials come from, and what is your working experience with mining?

So why did not you just answer that the first time I asked you on this thread? Instead of " what question"??

When a Tesla thread makes you realize the marine battery industry has been sticking it to boaters for a long long time.

Teslas 2020 impact report has shown 200,000 miles of use with less than 10% degradation.

petroleo y agua said:

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Teslag said:

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Tesla batteries for American deliveries are currently manufactured in Freemont, California. The Texas battery plant will go online later this year.

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Where do the raw materials come from, and what is your working experience with mining?

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The raw materials come from Australia or Chile.

hph6203 said:

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Lithium does not come from China. They have lithium, they retain their raw material for themselves. The raw material is generally sourced from what is called the "Lithium Triangle" in South America (Argentina, Bolivia, and Chile), which is mined from brines and evaporation pools, or from Australia from spodumene (also called hard rock lithium mining). After extraction it is sent to China for refinement. Post refinement the lithium sells for around $70,000 per metric tonne. There is around 5kg in the overall mass of a battery pack that weighs 1000kg at a cost of about $350, of which China only receives the portion derived from refinement, not the whole.

The entire battery pack, inclusive of cooling and integration of the pack, is manufactured for about $110/kWh. The battery packs in Tesla's are generally 75-100kWh.

China is not getting rich off refining lithium at a percentage of $350 per vehicle on a vehicle that sells for $50,000 with a gross margin of 32%.

What they will get rich off of is the fact they're the second largest producers of EVs worldwide and they will start shipping them across the globe to combat high gas prices. That's how you lose, by letting them sell finished products, not by being a member of the supply chain. China became "not desperately poor" by manufacturing iPhones. Apple got rich off their labor.

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This is false. In part because China is expanding into Africa.

Do not believe posters that tell you China is not involved in international lithium.

Again, this is false. Please cite to your sources and then to sources showing the environmental impact at those locations.

EVs are dangerous. Across the board.

SMM48 said:

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And the electric car emits what?

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Remember when there was talk of cell phones, with their little battery packs, causing brain tumors/cancer?

Now you've got mofos sitting inside of a large battery pack.

Just messin with ya.

Hold on while I roll this coal.

My point exactly friend. If 4 simple, no computer, no technology, marine batteries cost 4K. How can you say the Tesla replacement will only be 12-15K?
Cost is basically determined by number of cells. The more cells... the higher the cost?

SMM48 said:

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And the electric car emits what?

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Vehicle emissions amount for only 7% of all carbon emissions, so removing every combustion vehicle on the planet will not make a dent in emissions... that doesn't include the negative impact the EV supply chain has on the environment.. but keep living in your fantasy world of unicorn farts and pixie dust....

I like pixie farts

I respectfully request any and all information from any poster on this site to shown lithium mining is safe and efficient.

SMM48 said:

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And the electric car emits what?

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What does hydrocarbon generated electricity emit? There's your answer professor.

Gunny456 said:

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My point exactly friend. If 4 simple, no computer, no technology, marine batteries cost 4K. How can you say the Tesla replacement will only be 12-15K?
Cost is basically determined by number of cells. The more cells... the higher the cost?

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Have you considered the marine battery is the one that's overpriced?

The difference between a trolling motor battery and a Tesla battery is that the trolling motor battery is taking a bunch of cells, welding them together, sticking them in a box, with a battery management board and connecting it directly to a trolling motor. There's no attempt to maintain temperatures when charging/discharging the battery to ensure longevity, it's just plug it in and burn through it.

Tesla's have a liquid cooled battery. They constantly monitor temperatures and adjust to ensure optimal temperature ranges. Whether you're in the vehicle or not.

As for the cost of the replacement. You're talking about an end product trying to make margins, on a luxury implementation, on the sale of the battery. The marginal
utility of a lithium battery vs a lead acid battery is non-significant for a trolling motor. If you were to DIY a lithium battery you could build it for maybe a quarter of the price they're selling it to you for (assuming your $1000 figure is accurate).

Scale. As scale increases price comes down.

EVs cannot exist without hydrocarbons.

That is the bottom line for the next 200 years.