More Title IX Stuff…

4,383 Views | 36 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by Rascal
Rascal
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Interesting article.

Title IX: Are Men's and Women's Championships The Next Step?

Kirby Lee-USA TODAY Sports
Next Thursday, June 23, marks the 50th anniversary of Title IX the civil rights law that prohibits federally funded schools from discriminating "on the basis of sex." A major part of the law requires equal opportunity for participation between men's and women's sports.

As a result, Title IX has paved the way for all organized U.S. women's sports it's allowed a pipeline from early childhood all the way up through college. That pipeline has helped create a professional women's sports landscape.

Fifty years later, the growth has been staggering. And women's sports have become more popular, lucrative, and sought-after by investors than anytime in U.S. history.

But despite the gains, women's sports are hardly equal, and experts believe we've only tapped into a fraction of growth potential.

One of the major questions about how to accomplish this? Whether or not to combine women's championships on the same stage as their male counterparts.

"Do you want to be able to chart your own path and stand on your own?" Arizona State sports historian Victoria Jackson told Front Office Sports. "Or do you join forces and have not mixed-gender, but combined-gender events to line up in a more equitable way?"

FOS spoke with executives and experts about whether or not separate championships is the best model for another 50 years of major growth and dove deep into two top examples: professional tennis and college basketball.

The Most Successful Combined-Championship Model

The four Grand Slam events in tennis are one of the few high-profile combined championships and the setup is a major financial and logistical success.

According to experts, two major ingredients in tennis' recipe include infrastructure and a fan base interested in all genders.

The history of the sport also has built-in fail-safes for equity, which took decades, experts said.

They started with trailblazer Billie Jean King and others forming the WTA.
It has its own tour and advocates for women's players even as Grand Slams are owned and operated by national governing bodies.
"The business has been built over time," WTA President Micky Lawler told FOS. "But for a long time I don't think there's a sponsor of a combined event, or a broadcaster, or a ticket holder that bought that ticket, or decided on that sponsorship, or decided to buy the media rights because of one [gender] or the other."

The Grand Slams aren't about men's or women's tennis. They're a package deal.

"The value is in the totality of the property," Lawler said. "And today, that is more true than ever."

The upshot? Tennis fans who come to grand slams watch both the men and women. Women's ratings are high the 2021 U.S. Open women's final, for example, outperformed the men's. Since 2007, the prize money for all four Grand Slams has been equal, too.

The Final Four Conundrum

In the fall of 2021 after inequities were exposed between the NCAA men's and women's basketball tournaments, and a gender equity report found dire structural issues the NCAA announced it would consider combining the men's and women's Final Fours.

The current structure, according to Big East Commissioner Val Ackerman, creates a "natural limit" on growth. "The story of [the women's] tournament is that it's up against the men in every way, shape, or form."

Ackerman, who has been advocating for combined Final Fours since 2013, believes they would allow the college sports industry to attend both which could increase ticket sales, outside events, and the overall platform. Fans and media wouldn't have to choose, either.

The equity report supported the combined idea because the NCAA's sponsorship agreement already favors men's basketball:

It requires sponsors to activate at the men's Final Four before agreeing to any other sport. There's no a-la-carte sponsorship, so the women get shafted.
Combining the events would provide a band-aid for this issue that, because of the current sponsorship contract with CBS/Turner, will exist at least for another decade.
As for the downsides?

A fear that the men would "overshadow" the women was the major concern among coaches, according to a survey conducted by the Women's Basketball Coaches Association.
If that's the case, then the women's tournament would be treated like an opening act or side show and its overall growth could be stunted.
Hosting both Final Fours in the same place would pose a significant logistical challenge too, as not every city is equipped to host a larger event.
Ultimately, the governing body punted on the idea until at least 2031, much to the chagrin of Ackerman. West Coast Conference Commissioner Gloria Nevarez, too, told Front Office Sports she thinks the NCAA should at least try it.

Ackerman pointed out that despite all the growth in the women's game, it still doesn't put up equal ratings, ticket sales, and general fanfare. Ticket sellouts for an 18,000-fan arena and a championship game that averaged 4.85 million viewers were major. But they hardly compare with the men's 70,000-plus spectator arena and 18.1 million viewers.

"Is this the best event that this can be? Or could it be bigger? Could it be better?" Ackerman thinks there's a future where the women's tournament rivals the men's.

The Next 50 Years of Title IX

The next half-century is a chance for women's sports to continue building on major momentum. But is it time to look beyond the existing sports structure?

The potential pros and cons of the Final Four idea are indicative of the factors any sport from professional golf to the World Cup would consider: infrastructure, fan interest, media rights, sponsorships, and the overall well-being of the women's sport.

As far as tennis is concerned, for example, it might be time to continue capitalizing on a structure that is clearly working.

During the pandemic, the WTA and ATP increased their collaboration, creating joint marketing teams. The next "natural step," according to Lawler: combining the tours altogether.

But for other sports, the choice may not be so intuitive. Nicole LaVoi, the director of the Tucker Center for Research on Girls and Women in Sport, is one of the experts who isn't sold on combining events that are currently separate.

"Precisely at the time where women's sport viewership is on the rise, sales are on the rise, corporate sponsorship is on the rise … Why would right now be the time where we're having conversations about combining it with the men's when we have proven that women's sport is a viable standalone product?" LaVoi said.

But even if the efforts ultimately fail, other stakeholders asked FOS: Why not give it a try?
Pinochet
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Holy copyright infringement Batman!
ProgN
How long do you want to ignore this user?
At least have the decency to quote the article.
Aston04
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The difference is women's tennis is a relatively enjoyable product to watch (and are far better at tennis than the average male tennis player).. Not true with women's basketball. No amount of promotional packaging ramming it down our throats will change that.
WestAustinAg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Not reading all that.
gtaggie_08
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Do they want to destroy men's basketball? Because forcing people to watch a women's game before a me s game will just turn viewers off. Be happy with what they can get now
Marcus Brutus
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I can't believe this is true...

"...women's sports have become more popular, lucrative, and sought-after by investors than anytime in U.S. history."

I guess it could be true if you consider going from 1 to 2 on a 100 point scale, as significant. 100% more than it was, but completely insignificant still.
DallasAg 94
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BigRobSA
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Stupidity
BaileyAg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Most men (and many women) will never care about women's sports no matter how it's packaged.
ThunderCougarFalconBird
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
All of this will evaporate soon enough now that players can get paid.

Players will get whatever the market dictates they're worth.
aggiehawg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
ThunderCougarFalconBird said:

All of this will evaporate soon enough now that players can get paid.

Players will get whatever the market dictates they're worth.
And that will be a problem, in most sports.
YouBet
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Marcus Brutus said:

I can't believe this is true...

"...women's sports have become more popular, lucrative, and sought-after by investors than anytime in U.S. history."

I guess it could be true if you consider going from 1 to 2 on a 100 point scale, as significant. 100% more than it was, but completely insignificant still.
It's not. I can't believe they are using women's basketball as their test case here. The worst "sport" on the planet. The WNBA has still never made a profit and is subsidized by the NBA....because it sucks and their biology is a bad fit for the sport.

And they are excited about their massive growth in viewership of the WNBA playoffs last year which got them a massive number at...360K viewers. That's only 12.1M short of the NBA playoffs. Such progress! Hell...MLS, who we love to ridicule, had over 1M watch their playoff.

Regarding TitleIX, the biggest travesty I see are Texas universities that don't have womens gymnastics programs considering the state of Texas is ground zero for the sport. They need to kill basketball and replace it with gymnastics.
annie88
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Why do they have to have that anniversary on my birthday.
Currently a happy listless vessel and deplorable. #FDEMS TRUMP 2024.
Fight Fight Fight.
ABATTBQ11
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Quote:

According to experts, two major ingredients in tennis' recipe include infrastructure and a fan base interested in all genders.


Hot AF women in tennis skirts will do that...
BTKAG97
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Test the theory in the OP. Have both the Softball and Baseball Championships at the same time in Omaha. My hypothesis is the women's games would have far fewer fan participation than what they now garner in OKC.
BQ_90
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
BTKAG97 said:

Test the theory in the OP. Have both the Softball and Baseball Championships at the same time in Omaha. My hypothesis is the women's games would have far fewer fan participation than what they now garner in OKC.
And it's basically impossible, they can't have the games at the same place because the playing field is completely different. It's theoretical possible for basketball since it's the same size court
Marcus Brutus
How long do you want to ignore this user?
ABATTBQ11 said:

Quote:

According to experts, two major ingredients in tennis' recipe include infrastructure and a fan base interested in all genders.


Hot AF women in tennis skirts will do that...
Smeghead4761
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Aston04 said:

The difference is women's tennis is a relatively enjoyable product to watch (and are far better at tennis than the average male tennis player).. Not true with women's basketball. No amount of promotional packaging ramming it down our throats will change that.
You'll have to define "average" male player I'm old enough to remember the 203rd ranked player on the men's tour beating Serena (6-1) and Venus (6-2) Williams back in 1998. Back to back. After he'd played a round of golf.

I think the hot chicks in short skirts (often grunting like porn stars) has a lot to do with the popularity of women's tennis.
Aston04
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Smeghead4761 said:

Aston04 said:

The difference is women's tennis is a relatively enjoyable product to watch (and are far better at tennis than the average male tennis player).. Not true with women's basketball. No amount of promotional packaging ramming it down our throats will change that.
You'll have to define "average" male player I'm old enough to remember the 203rd ranked player on the men's tour beating Serena (6-1) and Venus (6-2) Williams back in 1998. Back to back. After he'd played a round of golf.

I think the hot chicks in short skirts (often grunting like porn stars) has a lot to do with the popularity of women's tennis.
. Average male tennis player as in 3.5 to low 4.0 level. Think typical varsity high school players. Pro females would destroy them. Not competitive. Much higher level.

Typical Varsity high school level boys basketball players (especially at big schools) would beat a wnba team imo. Women's basketball is just not good bc of physical limitations of the female body (not their fault of course) . Physical limitations aren't quite the same with tennis.

That said the average to mediocre varsity d1 male player would destroy any top pro female. The difference is greater court coverage, enhanced spin, pace of shots, and foot speed. All far better by males.
Atreides Ornithopter
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Smeghead4761 said:

Aston04 said:

The difference is women's tennis is a relatively enjoyable product to watch (and are far better at tennis than the average male tennis player).. Not true with women's basketball. No amount of promotional packaging ramming it down our throats will change that.
You'll have to define "average" male player I'm old enough to remember the 203rd ranked player on the men's tour beating Serena (6-1) and Venus (6-2) Williams back in 1998. Back to back. After he'd played a round of golf.

I think the hot chicks in short skirts (often grunting like porn stars) has a lot to do with the popularity of women's tennis.



They mean an average dude wandering around campus at A&M would get beat badly by the women's tennis team player. For basketball the "average"male team would probably beat the womens team

Dang it beaten to the punch
Krazykat
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
We're all supposed to be the same under wokeness, so one "multi-gender" team for each sport that everyone tries out for. Only the best are selected. Problem solved. Oh.. wait a second!
Smeghead4761
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I've said (tongue in cheek) for years that they should declare football to be a coed sport. That would relieve the scholarship numbers problem caused by the 85 men's only scholarships on the football team.
torrid
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
It's the cash generated by football and men's basketball that allows all the women's sports to exist.
Gator92
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Last week was the Volvo Car Scandinavian Mixed golf tournament. You had mostly EU tour players both women and men playing from the same tees.

Linn Grant, a woman from Scandinavia , at -24 won. Henrik Stenson tied for second at -15. Nine shots. The next woman finished tied at 15 at -10 under.

Course was 7001 yds par 72.

Don't think any PGA tour players were there, but nine shots is a beat down.

techno-ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Eh. Golf is more of a mind game.
Trump will fix it.
DCAggie13y
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Pretty sure they already do this in the olympic type sports - track, swimming, tennis, gymnastics, etc. It works for some sports but not all of them. Won't work for football and baseball for obvious reasons. So I think we're only talking about adding soccer and basketball to the already long list of sports that already do it.
Fightin_Aggie
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
BaileyAg said:

Most men (and many women) will never care about women's sports no matter how it's packaged.
Womens track and field is a quality sport

https://wallhere.com/en/wallpaper/39793



The world needs mean tweets

My Pronouns Ultra and MAGA

Trump 2024
AgDad121619
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Marcus Brutus said:

I can't believe this is true...

"...women's sports have become more popular, lucrative, and sought-after by investors than anytime in U.S. history."

I guess it could be true if you consider going from 1 to 2 on a 100 point scale, as significant. 100% more than it was, but completely insignificant still.
I'm sure ESPan had a massive fight on its hands with Fox and NBC for the lucrative WNBA rights - you know the league that is subsidized by the NBA and still loses money
Ol Rock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
High School games are almost never watched with national interest. The best high school boy athletes are better at their sports than professional women.

If women cared about women's sports....

Notice there is no male equivalent to the leftwing gossip program The View. It's because men don't care to listen to 5 old opinionated liberals gossip at midday. We go to work. If you're into that, it's called the news or maybe a pannel discussion in the evening on a news program.

For some reason, women watch those crackling hens. If they made a male equivalent at the same time, it would likely fail because men don't watch that crap. Dr Phill, Steve Harvey and those guys cater to women as well.

Don't try to change the people, change yourself.
YouBet
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Gator92 said:

Last week was the Volvo Car Scandinavian Mixed golf tournament. You had mostly EU tour players both women and men playing from the same tees.

Linn Grant, a woman from Scandinavia , at -24 won. Henrik Stenson tied for second at -15. Nine shots. The next woman finished tied at 15 at -10 under.

Course was 7001 yds par 72.

Don't think any PGA tour players were there, but nine shots is a beat down.




Mens tees or womens tees?

Regardless, I've never knocked womens golf. Completely different sport than something like basketball. Biology is largely negated except with drive distance being about the only separation.
Rascal
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
YouBet said:

Gator92 said:

Last week was the Volvo Car Scandinavian Mixed golf tournament. You had mostly EU tour players both women and men playing from the same tees.

Linn Grant, a woman from Scandinavia , at -24 won. Henrik Stenson tied for second at -15. Nine shots. The next woman finished tied at 15 at -10 under.

Course was 7001 yds par 72.

Don't think any PGA tour players were there, but nine shots is a beat down.




Mens tees or womens tees?

Regardless, I've never knocked womens golf. Completely different sport than something like basketball. Biology is largely negated except with drive distance being about the only separation.

Would be like comparing a male math teacher with a female math teacher. Either likely with the same ability.
YouBet
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Rascal said:

YouBet said:

Gator92 said:

Last week was the Volvo Car Scandinavian Mixed golf tournament. You had mostly EU tour players both women and men playing from the same tees.

Linn Grant, a woman from Scandinavia , at -24 won. Henrik Stenson tied for second at -15. Nine shots. The next woman finished tied at 15 at -10 under.

Course was 7001 yds par 72.

Don't think any PGA tour players were there, but nine shots is a beat down.




Mens tees or womens tees?

Regardless, I've never knocked womens golf. Completely different sport than something like basketball. Biology is largely negated except with drive distance being about the only separation.

Would be like comparing a male math teacher with a female math teacher. Either likely with the same ability.


Funny you give that example. My female Algebra/Geometry teacher in high school would say that men are better than women at Geometry because we have an better inherent ability to see and process spatially.

I recall being surprised to hear her say that even then (30+ years ago). I have no idea if that is true. If it is true, I'm quite sure anything proving it has been erased. I'm assuming she pulled that from ancient hunter-gatherer roles.
Gator92
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
YouBet said:

Gator92 said:

Last week was the Volvo Car Scandinavian Mixed golf tournament. You had mostly EU tour players both women and men playing from the same tees.

Linn Grant, a woman from Scandinavia , at -24 won. Henrik Stenson tied for second at -15. Nine shots. The next woman finished tied at 15 at -10 under.

Course was 7001 yds par 72.

Don't think any PGA tour players were there, but nine shots is a beat down.




Mens tees or womens tees?

Regardless, I've never knocked womens golf. Completely different sport than something like basketball. Biology is largely negated except with drive distance being about the only separation.
At 7001 yards, course is about on par w/ other LPGA events. However, US Open at Brookline is playing 7,264 yds, but par 70. Greens at US Open are tiny. Surprised you don't see more women trying to qualify.
YouBet
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Gator92 said:

YouBet said:

Gator92 said:

Last week was the Volvo Car Scandinavian Mixed golf tournament. You had mostly EU tour players both women and men playing from the same tees.

Linn Grant, a woman from Scandinavia , at -24 won. Henrik Stenson tied for second at -15. Nine shots. The next woman finished tied at 15 at -10 under.

Course was 7001 yds par 72.

Don't think any PGA tour players were there, but nine shots is a beat down.




Mens tees or womens tees?

Regardless, I've never knocked womens golf. Completely different sport than something like basketball. Biology is largely negated except with drive distance being about the only separation.
At 7001 yards, course is about on par w/ other LPGA events. However, US Open at Brookline is playing 7,264 yds, but par 70. Greens at US Open are tiny. Surprised you don't see more women trying to qualify.
Assuming they are allowed to compete (never thought about it), I am too. It's not like it would be shocking to see women near the top or maybe win it now and again.
Page 1 of 2
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.