Bubblez said:

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aggieforester05 said:

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Bubblez said:

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Looks like the UK is pushing back their full EV transition to 2035, though still expects the vast majority of vehicles sold in 2030 to be EVs.

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The UK is a relatively small island with limited natural resources and a very different culture/economy than the US.

Forcing rural Americans into EVs via mandates is a tyrannical and ****ty thing to do by coastal liberals that live and work in dense population centers. These people are completely oblivious to the lifestyle and needs of people that don't live the same lifestyle they do.

That's what happens when you're completely brainwashed by progressive propaganda that use the climate change boogeyman to fear monger you into voting for a party of degenerate sociopaths that only care about enriching themselves and their wealthy donors via green energy scams.

There's nothing wrong with offering EV options, but mandating unrealistic CAFE standards in a blatant attempt to make ICE vehicle production unsustainable is ethically wrong and an extremely poor economic decision.

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The automakers thought the CAFE standards of the 1980's were completely unrealistic, but look where we are now. Far better off. Imagine the price of oil if we still had the 1980's fuel economy standards.

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Shouldn't be under the purview of the govt anyway. If market forces prevailed it's arguable we'd be even better off.

cecil77 said:

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Bubblez said:

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aggieforester05 said:

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Bubblez said:

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Looks like the UK is pushing back their full EV transition to 2035, though still expects the vast majority of vehicles sold in 2030 to be EVs.

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The UK is a relatively small island with limited natural resources and a very different culture/economy than the US.

Forcing rural Americans into EVs via mandates is a tyrannical and ****ty thing to do by coastal liberals that live and work in dense population centers. These people are completely oblivious to the lifestyle and needs of people that don't live the same lifestyle they do.

That's what happens when you're completely brainwashed by progressive propaganda that use the climate change boogeyman to fear monger you into voting for a party of degenerate sociopaths that only care about enriching themselves and their wealthy donors via green energy scams.

There's nothing wrong with offering EV options, but mandating unrealistic CAFE standards in a blatant attempt to make ICE vehicle production unsustainable is ethically wrong and an extremely poor economic decision.

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The automakers thought the CAFE standards of the 1980's were completely unrealistic, but look where we are now. Far better off. Imagine the price of oil if we still had the 1980's fuel economy standards.

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Shouldn't be under the purview of the govt anyway. If market forces prevailed it's arguable we'd be even better off.

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If everything was left up to market forces, we'd still have leaded gasoline. That is another thing that took a huge government push with a bunch of kicking and screaming from industry.

80's fuel economy, not bad



The sedan/coupe got 47mpg highway

Bubblez said:

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cecil77 said:

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Bubblez said:

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aggieforester05 said:

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Bubblez said:

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Looks like the UK is pushing back their full EV transition to 2035, though still expects the vast majority of vehicles sold in 2030 to be EVs.

---

The UK is a relatively small island with limited natural resources and a very different culture/economy than the US.

Forcing rural Americans into EVs via mandates is a tyrannical and ****ty thing to do by coastal liberals that live and work in dense population centers. These people are completely oblivious to the lifestyle and needs of people that don't live the same lifestyle they do.

That's what happens when you're completely brainwashed by progressive propaganda that use the climate change boogeyman to fear monger you into voting for a party of degenerate sociopaths that only care about enriching themselves and their wealthy donors via green energy scams.

There's nothing wrong with offering EV options, but mandating unrealistic CAFE standards in a blatant attempt to make ICE vehicle production unsustainable is ethically wrong and an extremely poor economic decision.

---

The automakers thought the CAFE standards of the 1980's were completely unrealistic, but look where we are now. Far better off. Imagine the price of oil if we still had the 1980's fuel economy standards.

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Shouldn't be under the purview of the govt anyway. If market forces prevailed it's arguable we'd be even better off.

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If everything was left up to market forces, we'd still have leaded gasoline. That is another thing that took a huge government push with a bunch of kicking and screaming from industry.

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Unlikely, but there's no way to know either way. Given that government always gets in the way of the market, one is more probable than the other.

nortex97 said:

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I've been told Evs being jammed at us has nothing to do with the environment and resources. They are just so great and new tech idiots like me have to be forced to comply.

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No one has told you to comply with anything. You just seen unable to understand that many people with EV's don't care to be green or let that affect their purchase.

Bubblez said:

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aggieforester05 said:

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Bubblez said:

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Looks like the UK is pushing back their full EV transition to 2035, though still expects the vast majority of vehicles sold in 2030 to be EVs.

---

The UK is a relatively small island with limited natural resources and a very different culture/economy than the US.

Forcing rural Americans into EVs via mandates is a tyrannical and ****ty thing to do by coastal liberals that live and work in dense population centers. These people are completely oblivious to the lifestyle and needs of people that don't live the same lifestyle they do.

That's what happens when you're completely brainwashed by progressive propaganda that use the climate change boogeyman to fear monger you into voting for a party of degenerate sociopaths that only care about enriching themselves and their wealthy donors via green energy scams.

There's nothing wrong with offering EV options, but mandating unrealistic CAFE standards in a blatant attempt to make ICE vehicle production unsustainable is ethically wrong and an extremely poor economic decision.

---

The automakers thought the CAFE standards of the 1980's were completely unrealistic, but look where we are now. Far better off. Imagine the price of oil if we still had the 1980's fuel economy standards.

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Lol, do you even know what they are requiring by 2030?

There won't be any ICE cars left worth driving. Diminishing returns are real, liberal fantasies are not.

There will be zero performance ICE cars left and that's just complete BS. I hope it comes back to bite the scum bag leftists and Democrats in the ass. The manufacturers should also go bankrupt for not fighting this harder.

tk for tu juan said:

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80's fuel economy, not bad



The sedan/coupe got 47mpg highway

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Fake news. That could not have happened without government mandates.

And lasted 75,000 miles if you were lucky and had a lot of maintenance expenses. The Japanese were way ahead of Detroit on mpg in the 80s.

tk for tu juan said:

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80's fuel economy, not bad



The sedan/coupe got 47mpg highway

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That is a beautiful brown wagon I won't run down, but fun fact, it had a 100mph speedometer, and an 80-ish hp engine I think. I don't think many folks got speeding tickets in those.

Before the obamastang and obamaro became things, there were late 70's Datsuns.

nortex97 said:

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tk for tu juan said:

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80's fuel economy, not bad



The sedan/coupe got 47mpg highway

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That is a beautiful brown wagon I won't run down, but fun fact, it had a 100mph speedometer, and an 80-ish hp engine I think. I don't think many folks got speeding tickets in those.

Before the obamastang and obamaro became things, there were late 70's Datsuns.

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And that performance was a direct result of governmental regulations.

That is actually true, but I would note that it is exactly the type of vehicle (updated with airbags/good crumple zones etc) that a teenager should learn to drive in. Simple, humble, low power to weight, doesn't matter if he/she dings it up a bit, easy to maintain, cheap to fill up, I just miss seeing those kinda cars around.

The two door 210 we had when I was growing lasted 10 years and well over 200,000 miles. Even took a family trip to Colorado in it and lived to tell about it

aggieforester05 said:

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Bubblez said:

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Looks like the UK is pushing back their full EV transition to 2035, though still expects the vast majority of vehicles sold in 2030 to be EVs.

---

The UK is a relatively small island with limited natural resources and a very different culture/economy than the US.

Forcing rural Americans into EVs via mandates is a tyrannical and ****ty thing to do by coastal liberals that live and work in dense population centers. These people are completely oblivious to the lifestyle and needs of people that don't live the same lifestyle they do.

That's what happens when you're completely brainwashed by progressive propaganda that use the climate change boogeyman to fear monger you into voting for a party of degenerate sociopaths that only care about enriching themselves and their wealthy donors via green energy scams.

There's nothing wrong with offering EV options, but mandating unrealistic CAFE standards in a blatant attempt to make ICE vehicle production unsustainable is ethically wrong and an extremely poor economic decision.

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Amen to that. These are the same people that have basically ruined the modern diesel engines with all the emissions crap they require on them costing rural farming folks, trucking companies, etc even more headaches...Modern diesel engines are basically made to destroy themselves with all the soot that the emissions equipment blows back into the engines.

Tesla model 3; makes list of most leased vehicles, 1/3 are leased.

Frankly, I'm surprised the figure isn't higher. I am sure it is for the higher end/more pricey EV's.

Quote:

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while the three most-leased vehicles included the Ford F-150 at number one, followed by the Honda CR-V and Nissan Rogue.

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Oops, that kills a narrative

Teslag said:

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nortex97 said:

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I've been told Evs being jammed at us has nothing to do with the environment and resources. They are just so great and new tech idiots like me have to be forced to comply.

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No one has told you to comply with anything. You just seen unable to understand that many people with EV's don't care to be green or let that affect their purchase.

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Fewer than 3 in 10 is not "many":

Among those who would consider purchasing an EV, about seven-in-ten say helping the environment (72%) and saving money on gas (70%) are major reasons why. A small share (12%) cite keeping up with the latest trends in vehicles as a major reason.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/07/13/how-americans-view-electric-vehicles/

Gotsandy said:

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Teslag said:

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nortex97 said:

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I've been told Evs being jammed at us has nothing to do with the environment and resources. They are just so great and new tech idiots like me have to be forced to comply.

---

No one has told you to comply with anything. You just seen unable to understand that many people with EV's don't care to be green or let that affect their purchase.

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Fewer than 3 in 10 is not "many":

Among those who would consider purchasing an EV, about seven-in-ten say helping the environment (72%) and saving money on gas (70%) are major reasons why. A small share (12%) cite keeping up with the latest trends in vehicles as a major reason.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/07/13/how-americans-view-electric-vehicles/

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The EV fan club here just doesn't want to be bludgeoned with facts about the actual environmental impacts. The 'wanting to look trendy' admission is also under-valued/admitted, and motivates a lot. That's also why so many can't stand being laughed at.

The ones here, the ones you are debating, have told you repeatedly we don't give a **** about the environmental concerns

Sotero-Judges said:

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Gotsandy said:

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Teslag said:

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nortex97 said:

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I've been told Evs being jammed at us has nothing to do with the environment and resources. They are just so great and new tech idiots like me have to be forced to comply.

---

No one has told you to comply with anything. You just seen unable to understand that many people with EV's don't care to be green or let that affect their purchase.

---

Fewer than 3 in 10 is not "many":

Among those who would consider purchasing an EV, about seven-in-ten say helping the environment (72%) and saving money on gas (70%) are major reasons why. A small share (12%) cite keeping up with the latest trends in vehicles as a major reason.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/07/13/how-americans-view-electric-vehicles/

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The EV fan club here just doesn't want to be bludgeoned with facts about the actual environmental impacts. The 'wanting to look trendy' admission is also under-valued/admitted, and motivates a lot. That's also why so many can't stand being laughed at.

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wanting to look trendy? LMAO....some of guys can't help but to just make up stupid **** as you go along LOL!

RoyVal said:

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Sotero-Judges said:

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Gotsandy said:

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Teslag said:

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nortex97 said:

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I've been told Evs being jammed at us has nothing to do with the environment and resources. They are just so great and new tech idiots like me have to be forced to comply.

---

No one has told you to comply with anything. You just seen unable to understand that many people with EV's don't care to be green or let that affect their purchase.

---

Fewer than 3 in 10 is not "many":

Among those who would consider purchasing an EV, about seven-in-ten say helping the environment (72%) and saving money on gas (70%) are major reasons why. A small share (12%) cite keeping up with the latest trends in vehicles as a major reason.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/07/13/how-americans-view-electric-vehicles/

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The EV fan club here just doesn't want to be bludgeoned with facts about the actual environmental impacts. The 'wanting to look trendy' admission is also under-valued/admitted, and motivates a lot. That's also why so many can't stand being laughed at.

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wanting to look trendy? LMAO....some of guys can't help but to just make up stupid **** as you go along LOL!

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Wth are you on about making **** up. Read the damn polling data.

RoyVal said:

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Sotero-Judges said:

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Gotsandy said:

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Teslag said:

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nortex97 said:

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I've been told Evs being jammed at us has nothing to do with the environment and resources. They are just so great and new tech idiots like me have to be forced to comply.

---

No one has told you to comply with anything. You just seen unable to understand that many people with EV's don't care to be green or let that affect their purchase.

---

Fewer than 3 in 10 is not "many":

Among those who would consider purchasing an EV, about seven-in-ten say helping the environment (72%) and saving money on gas (70%) are major reasons why. A small share (12%) cite keeping up with the latest trends in vehicles as a major reason.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/07/13/how-americans-view-electric-vehicles/

---

The EV fan club here just doesn't want to be bludgeoned with facts about the actual environmental impacts. The 'wanting to look trendy' admission is also under-valued/admitted, and motivates a lot. That's also why so many can't stand being laughed at.

---

wanting to look trendy? LMAO....some of guys can't help but to just make up stupid **** as you go along LOL!

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I think there are a decent number of people for who this is true as it has been for a number of emerging technologies. I remember a lot of people making a big deal about getting a cell phone, plasma TV, computer, new generation Corvettes, etc.

Sotero-Judges said:

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Gotsandy said:

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Teslag said:

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nortex97 said:

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I've been told Evs being jammed at us has nothing to do with the environment and resources. They are just so great and new tech idiots like me have to be forced to comply.

---

No one has told you to comply with anything. You just seen unable to understand that many people with EV's don't care to be green or let that affect their purchase.

---

Fewer than 3 in 10 is not "many":

Among those who would consider purchasing an EV, about seven-in-ten say helping the environment (72%) and saving money on gas (70%) are major reasons why. A small share (12%) cite keeping up with the latest trends in vehicles as a major reason.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/07/13/how-americans-view-electric-vehicles/

---

The EV fan club here just doesn't want to be bludgeoned with facts about the actual environmental impacts. The 'wanting to look trendy' admission is also under-valued/admitted, and motivates a lot. That's also why so many can't stand being laughed at.

---

"Wanting to look trendy" covers quite a few ICE vehicle buyers as well. People by high performance sports cars and luxury vehicle simply to look cool.

Wanting to look trendy and feelings about the environment comprises a majority for ev buyers decision to buy what is objectively an older technology, inferior power train vehicle imho, as shown by that poll.

nortex97 said:

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Wanting to look trendy and feelings about the environment comprises a majority for ev buyers decision to buy what is objectively an older technology, inferior power train vehicle imho, as shown by that poll.

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Now do the white framed Oakley guy in an F250

nortex97 said:

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Wanting to look trendy and feelings about the environment comprises a majority for ev buyers decision to buy what is objectively an older technology, inferior power train vehicle imho, as shown by that poll.

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I would love to hear how it is an older technology. If you go off the cars from the 1890s that had batteries, it is a big stretch because there is essentially no commonality in those cars and the new ones. As for ICE vehicles, the engines are still at the core the same as the one in the Model T with a bunch of pollution control equipment and added equipment to improve mileage and power output.

Your history is wrong again. The battery goes back much further actually.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Battery

Electric cars were even marketed to urban wealthy women as easy for them to drive etc over a hundred years ago. Very similar marketing really. Clean, simple, quiet, high tech/quality, status symbol.

Trendy.

nortex97 said:

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Your history is wrong again. The battery goes back much further actually.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Battery

Electric cars were even marketed to urban wealthy women as easy for them to drive etc over a hundred years ago. Very similar marketing really. Clean, simple, quiet, high tech/quality, status symbol.

Trendy.

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If you are going to use the Baghdad battery as the core technology of an EV then the core technology of ICE is fire which goes back to the beginning of mankind.

PS. Go see when Benz when was selling cars

Kansas Kid said:

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nortex97 said:

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Your history is wrong again. The battery goes back much further actually.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Battery

Electric cars were even marketed to urban wealthy women as easy for them to drive etc over a hundred years ago. Very similar marketing really. Clean, simple, quiet, high tech/quality, status symbol.

Trendy.

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If you are going to use the Baghdad battery as the core technology of an EV then the core technology of ICE is fire which goes back to the beginning of mankind.

PS. Go see when Benz when was selling cars

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Was Benz before this guy, or after? Do you know what the "I" in ICE stands for?


*Hint: Gustav Trouv

I'm trying to help you.

Trendy folks in Seattle were charging their Gremlins on the street many a year ago, before I was born.

My big boss flew in and we met in Dallas to visit some job sites. He rented a EV (Hyundai) claiming he was thinking about buying one. Drove from downtown Dallas to Allen and then to Fort Worth. When we got to Ft Worth he was on 40% battery. Made it back to Dallas at 20%. Had to search for a place to charge it. Found one and in 45 mins of charging we were only up to 40%. We promptly took it back to the rental place at Love and got an ICE vehicle.

Needless to say he will not be purchasing an EV! I would never consider one and that experience only reinforced it.

JB!98 said:

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My big boss flew in and we met in Dallas to visit some job sites. He rented a EV (Hyundai) claiming he was thinking about buying one. Drove from downtown Dallas to Allen and then to Fort Worth. When we got to Ft Worth he was on 40% battery. Made it back to Dallas at 20%. Had to search for a place to charge it. Found one and in 45 mins of charging we were only up to 40%. We promptly took it back to the rental place at Love and got an ICE vehicle.

Needless to say he will not be purchasing an EV! I would never consider one and that experience only reinforced it.

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Yet another ****ty experience in a non Tesla EV. I'm shocked

JB!98 said:

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My big boss flew in and we met in Dallas to visit some job sites. He rented a EV (Hyundai) claiming he was thinking about buying one. Drove from downtown Dallas to Allen and then to Fort Worth. When we got to Ft Worth he was on 40% battery. Made it back to Dallas at 20%. Had to search for a place to charge it. Found one and in 45 mins of charging we were only up to 40%. We promptly took it back to the rental place at Love and got an ICE vehicle.

Needless to say he will not be purchasing an EV! I would never consider one and that experience only reinforced it.

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Rentals are the greatest. They let folks see for themselves what range anxiety is like up close and personal. And if Tesla provides a slightly superior experience so what? The average Joe lumps all EVs together.

JB!98 said:

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My big boss flew in and we met in Dallas to visit some job sites. He rented a EV (Hyundai) claiming he was thinking about buying one. Drove from downtown Dallas to Allen and then to Fort Worth. When we got to Ft Worth he was on 40% battery. Made it back to Dallas at 20%. Had to search for a place to charge it. Found one and in 45 mins of charging we were only up to 40%. We promptly took it back to the rental place at Love and got an ICE vehicle.

Needless to say he will not be purchasing an EV! I would never consider one and that experience only reinforced it.

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I'm really glad more people are experiencing the excitement/experience of EV driving via rental companies. I think this gets the word out more effectively than social media/propaganda press etc.

Who could imagine having a ****ty experience in a Hyundai?!

Manhattan said:

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Who could imagine having a ****ty experience in a Hyundai?!

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There are a lot of really nice Kia/Hyundai's. Just FYI. These are commonly discussed in the auto forum.

"Hyundais are ****ty"

Yeah but you think the Tesla gadget car is a luxury vehicle. Opinion invalid.