I will never buy an electric powered vehicle.

526,785 Views | 7787 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by techno-ag
P.U.T.U
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AG
LOL do you really want to know what one of the largest battery cell manufacturers in the world (not including Tesla) recommends? Basically to shut off power to the battery pack and get away. You can use chemicals to put out the fire or a copious amount of water (like summerging the entire pack) but then you have possibly contaminated water that you have no idea what to do with. Hence why most fire departments tell their guys once you see the orange high voltage cables just to let the car burn

NFPA 850 was last updated in 2016 and it references articles done in 2011 and 2013. Yeah over 10 years ago.

We are working with some fire suppression system companies and they think they have a good setup but they are well north of $10k each. This is on much larger equipment than a Tesla.
P.U.T.U
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LCE said:

Yea. Rode in a Tesla the other day. 25 to 75 in second. Crazy fast.
Even without the newest technology we have a customer that has a piece of equipment that goes from 0-25mph in less than one rotation of the tires on a 600,000 pound vehicle. Crazy power and fun.
Teslag
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AG
https://www.tesla.com/firstresponders
cbr
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techno-ag said:

munch96 said:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/ford-ceo-road-trips-f-150-lightning-and-gets-ev-charging-reality-check

Quote:

Recently, Farley decided to take the Lightning on a road trip on Route 66. The idea was to take on more rural routes in a trucka truck "for real people who do real work," according to Farley. And as it turns out, the CEO's experiment was a real eye opener about how real people in the real world drive their pickups, and what it would take to live with Ford's newest electrified product in a less-populated area.

"Charging has been pretty challenging," Farley said during a short video posted on Twitter. "It was a really good reality check of the challenges our customers go through, and the importance of fast-charging."
Farley was specifically referring to his recent charging experience where he had to use a "low-speed" charger at a popular charging location near the Harris Ranch Inn in Coalinga, California.

Specifically, Farley chose a lower speed charger because it was the first available one he was able to plug into the F-150, due to all of the fast chargers being occupied. The truck spent 40 minutes at the station only to receive a 40% charge. As one might imagine, that isn't ideal for someone taking a road trip on one of America's most well-known tourist highways.

Wow. Devastating.
The fact that the ****ing ceo has no idea what trucks are for or how they are used or the problems with ev's says it all.
munch96
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Teslag said:

https://www.tesla.com/firstresponders
Quote:

USE WATER TO FIGHT A HIGH VOLTAGE BATTERY FIRE. If the battery catches fire, is exposed to high heat, or is generating heat or gases, use large amounts of water to cool the battery. It can take between approximately 3,000-8,000 gallons (11,356-30,283 liters) of water, applied directly to the battery, to fully extinguish and cool down a battery fire; always establish or request additional water supply early. If water is not immediately available, use CO2, dry chemicals, or another typical fire-extinguishing agent to fight the fire until water is available.
Wonder what the typical volume of water is needed for an ICE vehicle....

This is pretty wild though:
Quote:

Vehicles that have been submerged in water should be handled with greater caution due to the potential risk of a high voltage electrical battery fire. First responders should be prepared to respond to a potential fire risk. Raise the front of the vehicle to allow water to drain out of the vehicle and the high voltage battery pack. After the vehicle is removed from the water, continue normal disabling procedures as outlined in Chapter 3.
P.U.T.U
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AG
Typical ICE vehicle fires take 500-1000 gallons. Typical fire engine can carry 500 gallons. Some can carry 300 while some are around 1250 gallons. Which is why unless their is a hydrant close by they just make sure the fire doesn't spread and let it burn out.

That is all we tell our customers as well, make sure it does not spread and around dangerous equipment. And also why some companies are investing so much into fire suppression systems.

We had an oilfield customer ask if they can dump the battery pack in the frac water tank and we asked how they are supposed to move the unit while it is on fire 100+ yards.
RoyVal
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Teslag said:

I love the EV fire boogeyman arguments

EV fires are gonna get you! Look what happened to Maui! A Tesla burned down the entire island....you haven't heard about it because it's being covered up! The media is blaming it on a the weather and power lines....but smart people know the truth!



Kansas Kid
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cbr said:

techno-ag said:

munch96 said:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/ford-ceo-road-trips-f-150-lightning-and-gets-ev-charging-reality-check

Quote:

Recently, Farley decided to take the Lightning on a road trip on Route 66. The idea was to take on more rural routes in a trucka truck "for real people who do real work," according to Farley. And as it turns out, the CEO's experiment was a real eye opener about how real people in the real world drive their pickups, and what it would take to live with Ford's newest electrified product in a less-populated area.

"Charging has been pretty challenging," Farley said during a short video posted on Twitter. "It was a really good reality check of the challenges our customers go through, and the importance of fast-charging."
Farley was specifically referring to his recent charging experience where he had to use a "low-speed" charger at a popular charging location near the Harris Ranch Inn in Coalinga, California.

Specifically, Farley chose a lower speed charger because it was the first available one he was able to plug into the F-150, due to all of the fast chargers being occupied. The truck spent 40 minutes at the station only to receive a 40% charge. As one might imagine, that isn't ideal for someone taking a road trip on one of America's most well-known tourist highways.

Wow. Devastating.
The fact that the ****ing ceo has no idea what trucks are for or how they are used or the problems with ev's says it all.

There is a reason Ford and others are switching charge ports to the Tesla standard. Without access to the Tesla Supercharger network, you basically can't do a long distance trip in the US. They will still have problems when people want to go into the rural areas away from interstates and major highways. In other words, where truck owners that have them from practical reasons go. The urban cowboy truck owners will be fine.
techno-ag
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Kansas Kid said:

cbr said:

techno-ag said:

munch96 said:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/ford-ceo-road-trips-f-150-lightning-and-gets-ev-charging-reality-check

Quote:

Recently, Farley decided to take the Lightning on a road trip on Route 66. The idea was to take on more rural routes in a trucka truck "for real people who do real work," according to Farley. And as it turns out, the CEO's experiment was a real eye opener about how real people in the real world drive their pickups, and what it would take to live with Ford's newest electrified product in a less-populated area.

"Charging has been pretty challenging," Farley said during a short video posted on Twitter. "It was a really good reality check of the challenges our customers go through, and the importance of fast-charging."
Farley was specifically referring to his recent charging experience where he had to use a "low-speed" charger at a popular charging location near the Harris Ranch Inn in Coalinga, California.

Specifically, Farley chose a lower speed charger because it was the first available one he was able to plug into the F-150, due to all of the fast chargers being occupied. The truck spent 40 minutes at the station only to receive a 40% charge. As one might imagine, that isn't ideal for someone taking a road trip on one of America's most well-known tourist highways.

Wow. Devastating.
The fact that the ****ing ceo has no idea what trucks are for or how they are used or the problems with ev's says it all.

There is a reason Ford and others are switching charge ports to the Tesla standard. Without access to the Tesla Supercharger network, you basically can't do a long distance trip in the US. They will still have problems when people want to go into the rural areas away from interstates and major highways. In other words, where truck owners that have them from practical reasons go. The urban cowboy truck owners will be fine.
Yup. Range anxiety is real. Add this to our long list on here of published accounts about road trip difficulties. And you know, like cockroaches, for every one you see there's many more you don't. This is why only fanboys are repeat buyers of EVs. Folks who try them out then get burned ( by a real fire or by range stranding ) don't go back.
Trump will fix it.
Teslag
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80% of EV buyers don't return to ICE
techno-ag
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Teslag said:

80% of EV buyers don't return to ICE
Dunno the accuracy of that, but it's true fanboys buy one again. Other people wake up to a harsh "charged" reality.
Trump will fix it.
Kansas Kid
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techno-ag said:

Kansas Kid said:

cbr said:

techno-ag said:

munch96 said:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/ford-ceo-road-trips-f-150-lightning-and-gets-ev-charging-reality-check

Quote:

Recently, Farley decided to take the Lightning on a road trip on Route 66. The idea was to take on more rural routes in a trucka truck "for real people who do real work," according to Farley. And as it turns out, the CEO's experiment was a real eye opener about how real people in the real world drive their pickups, and what it would take to live with Ford's newest electrified product in a less-populated area.

"Charging has been pretty challenging," Farley said during a short video posted on Twitter. "It was a really good reality check of the challenges our customers go through, and the importance of fast-charging."
Farley was specifically referring to his recent charging experience where he had to use a "low-speed" charger at a popular charging location near the Harris Ranch Inn in Coalinga, California.

Specifically, Farley chose a lower speed charger because it was the first available one he was able to plug into the F-150, due to all of the fast chargers being occupied. The truck spent 40 minutes at the station only to receive a 40% charge. As one might imagine, that isn't ideal for someone taking a road trip on one of America's most well-known tourist highways.

Wow. Devastating.
The fact that the ****ing ceo has no idea what trucks are for or how they are used or the problems with ev's says it all.

There is a reason Ford and others are switching charge ports to the Tesla standard. Without access to the Tesla Supercharger network, you basically can't do a long distance trip in the US. They will still have problems when people want to go into the rural areas away from interstates and major highways. In other words, where truck owners that have them from practical reasons go. The urban cowboy truck owners will be fine.
Yup. Range anxiety is real. Add this to our long list on here of published accounts about road trip difficulties. And you know, like cockroaches, for every one you see there's many more you don't. This is why only fanboys are repeat buyers of EVs. Folks who try them out then get burned ( by a real fire or by range stranding ) don't go back.

I have yet to know anyone that owns a Tesla that wouldn't buy it again. They all say range anxiety went away after their first or second road trip. I know there are people that wouldn't buy them again (just like every vehicle ever made) but they are few and far between.

Now almost everyone person I have talked to that bought Bolt, Leaf and other early EVs from the traditional automakers almost universally hated them. They also were mostly people buying them because they bought into the "green story"
P.U.T.U
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AG
I know of a few people that have purchased Teslas and didn't go back. Just wasn't for them. Be it range, capacity, economic benefit, etc.

EVs have their place but aren't for everyone
techno-ag
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P.U.T.U said:

I know of a few people that have purchased Teslas and didn't go back. Just wasn't for them. Be it range, capacity, economic benefit, etc.

EVs have their place but aren't for everyone
Yup. It's a self selecting group to be sure.
Trump will fix it.
Teslag
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https://thehill.com/changing-america/sustainability/energy/551207-new-study-explains-why-nearly-20-percent-of-electric/amp/

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-buyers-are-even-more-loyal-than-ford-f-150-fanati-1850162424

https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west/transportation/2022/03/08/90--of-electric-vehicle-owners-say-they-would-purchase-one-again--survey-says

https://www.cbtnews.com/ev-owners-likely-to-go-electric-again-says-j-d-power-research/

https://www.axios.com/2022/10/05/ev-adoption-loyalty-electric-cars
Kansas Kid
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P.U.T.U said:

I know of a few people that have purchased Teslas and didn't go back. Just wasn't for them. Be it range, capacity, economic benefit, etc.

EVs have their place but aren't for everyone

Agreed. There is yet to be any car made that is for everyone but I wouldn't mind having a Bugatti so I could sell it for $$$$
nortex97
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I rented a Tesla for a week and am now sold on gas powered cars.

Quote:

1. Battery Drainage Is Stress-Inducing

In the Tesla, stress is a given. The battery drains faster than you might think. Our Model 3 had an advertised range of about 300 miles, but that's if you charge it to 100 percent (which no one does) and run it to 0 percent (which no one does). So the practical range is about 150-200 miles. We felt compelled to recharge after going just 150 miles versus refueling after about 450 miles in our Honda Accord. The battery even drained 10 percent just sitting in the driveway for about a day. Granted, we covered some distances in Washington state during our travels. But that confirms EVs are a poor choice for road trips unless you enjoy the risk of being stranded.
Quote:

7. Don't Expect the Cost of a Battery Charge to Always Be Lower than Gasoline

There are so many variables in fuel/charging costs, it's hard to know if you're getting a deal. When we tapped the "lightning bolt" image on the Tesla's touch screen, we got a list of superchargers in the region as well as the cost per kilowatt hour, which varied from about 18 cents to about 50 cents. Our cheapest total charge was around $7 and ranged up to $25. We generally didn't put more than a 50 percent charge into the car at any one time, and given the miles driven, the $25 charge was about the same as we would have paid for gas. Since there are government subsidies both for purchasing an EV and for charging, I would expect those prices to rise if everyone gets with the program and demand is up.

But pigs will fly before I buy an EV based on my Tesla experience/experiment. This conclusion is not based on a one-hour test drive but on an entire week of driving in an EV-friendly part of the country.

Granted, there are some moments of fun when driving a Tesla. "Regenerative braking" is a system that recharges the battery. So once your foot is off the accelerator, the car slows down quickly. We rarely needed to use the brake at all, even at red lights. And once you accelerate, expect a fast pick-up! The tinted glass roof was kind of cool. The seats were comfortable enough. But all in all, it was too much hassle and too much anxiety. I'm now totally sold on gas-powered vehicles.
Good points throughout the article.
slaughtr
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nortex97 said:

I rented a Tesla for a week and am now sold on gas powered cars.

Quote:

1. Battery Drainage Is Stress-Inducing

In the Tesla, stress is a given. The battery drains faster than you might think. Our Model 3 had an advertised range of about 300 miles, but that's if you charge it to 100 percent (which no one does) and run it to 0 percent (which no one does). So the practical range is about 150-200 miles. We felt compelled to recharge after going just 150 miles versus refueling after about 450 miles in our Honda Accord. The battery even drained 10 percent just sitting in the driveway for about a day. Granted, we covered some distances in Washington state during our travels. But that confirms EVs are a poor choice for road trips unless you enjoy the risk of being stranded.
Quote:

7. Don't Expect the Cost of a Battery Charge to Always Be Lower than Gasoline

There are so many variables in fuel/charging costs, it's hard to know if you're getting a deal. When we tapped the "lightning bolt" image on the Tesla's touch screen, we got a list of superchargers in the region as well as the cost per kilowatt hour, which varied from about 18 cents to about 50 cents. Our cheapest total charge was around $7 and ranged up to $25. We generally didn't put more than a 50 percent charge into the car at any one time, and given the miles driven, the $25 charge was about the same as we would have paid for gas. Since there are government subsidies both for purchasing an EV and for charging, I would expect those prices to rise if everyone gets with the program and demand is up.

But pigs will fly before I buy an EV based on my Tesla experience/experiment. This conclusion is not based on a one-hour test drive but on an entire week of driving in an EV-friendly part of the country.

Granted, there are some moments of fun when driving a Tesla. "Regenerative braking" is a system that recharges the battery. So once your foot is off the accelerator, the car slows down quickly. We rarely needed to use the brake at all, even at red lights. And once you accelerate, expect a fast pick-up! The tinted glass roof was kind of cool. The seats were comfortable enough. But all in all, it was too much hassle and too much anxiety. I'm now totally sold on gas-powered vehicles.
Good points throughout the article.
Invalid points for the majority of people who buy an EV. This is a rented car on a trip away from home. The vast majority of people use their cars for commuting and have more than one car in the household.

I drive my EV to commute back and forth to work, like most people. My electricity costs less than 10 cents a kwh and not that I care, but all of it comes from hydroelectric power in my area.

I don't take the car on trips.
I have never charged at a charging station outside of my home.
I plug it in once or twice a week and charge it to 100%.
I never have range anxiety.
It costs waaaaaaayy less than gas.

In short, none of the points in that article apply to me or the vast majority of EV owners.
KerrAg76
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In other words, you use it like a golf cart. Great for you, most folks need more flexibility.
slaughtr
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AG
KerrAg76 said:

In other words, you use it like a golf cart. Great for you, most folks need more flexibility.
I use it like car, just like most people. A 480 hp, 600 lb-ft of torque car. How is that hard to understand.

I wouldn't rent an EV away from home either. That would be just stupid. But just like most people, we have more than one car in our household, and they each have different jobs.
Teslag
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Quote:

Luckily for us, there was always a passenger available to cope with the screen. We had to be in motion in order to check for a charging station nearby. There's nothing intuitive about the air conditioning. Ditto for the radio, which we could only "turn off" by reducing the volume. The windshield wipers are supposed to be automatic, but when it started raining, we realized they were "turned off." After fishing around the screen, we finally pulled over to consult YouTube to get them working again.


This lady is a moron. All of these are done using a simple voice command
fc2112
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Just figured out my wife's Audi doesn't qualify for the tax credit. Oh well.
fc2112
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slaughtr said:

I plug it in once or twice a week and charge it to 100%.
So my wife is pretty militant about only charging to 80%. Do you think that rule is bogus?
Teslag
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AG
Depends on the battery tech. The newer Tesla batteries coming from the Austin gigafactory cars can charge to 100. Others should stay at 80 unless needed for longer trips.
Manhattan
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There isn't a single car coming out of Austin that is supposed to be set to 100% full time.
slaughtr
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AG
fc2112 said:

slaughtr said:

I plug it in once or twice a week and charge it to 100%.
So my wife is pretty militant about only charging to 80%. Do you think that rule is bogus?
EV's won't allow you to charge the battery past a certain point. I say I charge it to 100%, because that's what it says and it turns the charging off, but in reality there is excess battery storage capacity that it won't allow you to charge. So I plug mine into a 220V outlet that I added to my garage for $360 (not $10,000 like some memes suggest) and in the morning it has fully charged to the max it will allow.
Manhattan
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If you have an NMC battery and are only driving <60 miles a day, and have nearby superchargers incase of emergency charge to 60% if you want to keep it healthy as possible.

But it really doesn't matter that much.
nortex97
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AG
Which works great up until the point the car burns the garage down overnight.
Teslag
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It was my understanding that the 4680's were able to charge to 100 regularly?
Teslag
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nortex97 said:

Which works great up until the point the car burns the garage down overnight.
Moot point since NTSB data shows ICE vehicles have a higher propensity to catch fire.
P.U.T.U
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The chargers/BMS never allow a battery to fully charge or discharge since over the long term it could damage the cells. The display system may say 100% but it is 100% of what the BMS is allowing it to charge to. Too high or low causes dendrites
Manhattan
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Teslag said:

It was my understanding that the 4680's were able to charge to 100 regularly?


Nope, still NMC, still recommended 80%.

Also terrible charging curve.
Manhattan
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What we need is the LFP RWD Y, but probably won't get that because of the USDM battery content rules in the IRA.
slaughtr
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nortex97 said:

Which works great up until the point the car burns the garage down overnight.
I'm real scared.
techno-ag
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Teslag said:

nortex97 said:

Which works great up until the point the car burns the garage down overnight.
Moot point since NTSB data shows ICE vehicles have a higher propensity to catch fire.
Not in the garage.
Trump will fix it.
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